Frozenprince
Banned
I play comp with characters most people don't use too. Because I'm only good with like, three characters.
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MIC: Overwatch players turn to Reddit to share their stories of Harrassment
- Thread starter EdibleKnife
- Start date
Overwatch was one of the biggest games of 2016, and remains one of the biggest online games today.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Sucks that PS3 had voice changer but PS4 doesn't. Sony is sleeping on this great feature that helps mask the gender of your voice by increasing or decreasing the pitch of your voice.
I bet PC players can run an app for that. Could definitely help with the harassments.
I bet PC players can run an app for that. Could definitely help with the harassments.
Of course you can win while playing a character you're good at, but that depends on both your own team's character picks and the ones of the opposite team. Maybe it's just because I'm against the whole "main" mentality some people have in Overwatch, but if I'm not doing much positive for the team I'll switch heroes.
I'm not even into comp play. I play other modes because I like to have fun while playing games.
That's the deal you signed up for when you choose to click on a mode labelled as competitive.
If you're not going to play to win, stay out of competitive. Quickplay exists, and it has the same hero limit from competitive to prevent absurd stacking combos.
cant take what people who dont know you say serious. It means little to nothing. Hell, i rage out at times and tell people to go back to quick play. Folks need to toughen up a bit.
One thing i will never do is degrade a women because she's a women like some of these people are doing. I have no problem saying, hey you are holding the team back, its ateam based game. What the point of playing a team based game if you dont want to be a part of the team. Alot of the times, i dont say it so nnice, because it gets frustrating.
Overwatch is the most fun game to play and at the same time can be the most frustrating game to play.
Basketball
Member
Dongs Macabre
aka Daedalos42
Clearly that makes you more toxic than people that constantly shout slurs into their mic.
Angry Fork
Member
I don't shit talk people. Accepting the reality of the internet doesn't mean you also become a troll/asshole. If you ever plan on spending an extended amount of the time on the internet, being able to ignore or fight back against random people who say mean things to you is a necessary skill. Growing thicker skin is useful for both the internet and real life.
If sexist/racist harassers who are reported aren't temporarily or permanently banned then that's an issue with the developers response time/methods. I don't know what you want to do to these people that doesn't already happen except inflict real life legal consequences. If that's the case then ok fine that's a valid opinion to have but I don't think saying random shit on the internet should get you fined or put in jail. There are exceptions of course (with children), but if you're not a child then yea that's on them to deal with as an adult.
I didn't say they're pleasant things, just that this aspect of the internet exists, and I said the ways we could deal with it. Your response is "I don't like that". What?
I'm 100% supportive of that. I just don't know what you guys want to be done that isn't already being done.
If it's so stupid and juvenile why are people being offended by it?
What do you want to be done about it that isn't being done already? I'm fine with:
a. temp bans for sexist/racist harassment
b. muting/blocking
I'm not fine with:
a. real world legal repercussions
b. eliminating anonymity or text/mic communications in games.
I was responding to someone who said shit talking was a boys-only thing.
Yes, but why is this even brought up in the context of this topic? The hell do some people feel compelled to talk about this here?
Frozenprince
Banned
You can play to win and not follow the shreeking moans of angry assholes demanding you do as they say or they'll throw a fit.
I don't get how this is a difficult concept to grasp. This plays into the issue at hand. One shouldn't deal with people debasing them simply because they aren't doing what they want them to do in a GAME.
to be fair, thats an exception to the rule. 9/10 times, when people pick characters that are suspect on certain maps it goes to hell.
It's pretty amazing
''Don't play Junkrat!'' ''Don't play Hanzo!'' ''Don't play Widow!''
''Don't play McCree!'' ''Don't play Symmetra'' ''Don't play Torb!''
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Lol, come on dude. Not to start a platform war here but the idea that PC players are somehow more "dignified" than console players is really laughable. Hell, arguably and most probably the most toxic online gaming community in the world, League of Legends, is a PC exclusive.
Arseholes are everywhere irrespective of their platforms of choice.
finalflame
Member
You're being intentionally dense about this. No, that's not how it works. It's after it has become apparent that the team member is not contributing that a conversation about changing team composition begins.
I haven't been in a game where people tilt over hero picks at the beginning of the match in .. forever. It's after you're 2-3 pushes in with the person in question contributing nothing that the suggestion comes out, usually politely. Queue the person who refuses to play anything but their waifu leaving all communication channels and proceeding to get murdered over and over again while not understanding core dynamics important to succeeding in this game's competitive mode.
That's a nice fantasy, yet it rarely plays out that way. Here's how it usually goes:
Location: Spawn room of a map where Junkrat has absolutely no real area denial ability, making him a terrible situational pick.
Some player: Not sure if Junkrat is the best pick here, but let's give it a shot.
2-3 minutes and 3-4 pushes later, Junkrat is dying repeatedly to the enemy team while effectively doing nothing but charging the enemy Zarya's energy.
Some player: Hey Junkrat, would you mind trying out a different hero? I don't think this comp is working out.
Junkrat player: <radio silence>
DEFEAT.
stop posting dude lol
Funny how GAF bitches and moans about online bullying, but then uses this sort of tactic to shut down discussion without any meaningful discourse. If you have an argument to make, make it, that's why this is a discussion forum.
i dunno, i just replied to some dude!, but this is alot of the reason for the harassment as well.
dehydratedbabies
Member
No, it usually plays out like I said. Meaningful discourse though.
EDIT: Have we proved that Overwatch is toxic yet?
I've never seen this happen, I'd like to see some recordings of this, sounds hilariously dumb on their part.
finalflame
Member
Then keep doing you dude. By all means, if you're ever on my team and killing it as Junkrat, I won't bat an eye, and I definitely won't be the guy telling you to switch in the spawn room, but rather telling everyone else we should give it a shot and switch if it's not working after a few pushes.
And no, we haven't, but if discussing the meaningfulness of hero picks qualifies as "toxic" then, by all means, label it as such and discourage those who agree from playing if you wish.
Gentleman Jack
Member
I wonder why you're arguing against legal repercussions for abusive behavior, because honestly death/rape threats would be illegal in a lot of other forums but somehow teamchat in video games is a-ok with you and not a problem at all. Nah b, those women should just grow a thick skin and go through this rite of passage like I did in the 90s, it is the children who are wrong.
The great thing is you can block people and you will never hear them again!
Public competitive modes are honestly really toxic. I know League wasn't the first game to do it, but it really normalized being toxic for not choosing the preordained meta in these character/class based games
Team Fortress 2 had it right (in the beginning). If you wanted to be serious you could play on those serious servers. Nobody yelling at you for picking Soldier when you should have picked Scout (for the most part).
Team Fortress 2 had it right (in the beginning). If you wanted to be serious you could play on those serious servers. Nobody yelling at you for picking Soldier when you should have picked Scout (for the most part).
For what's it's worth, I agree that people who don't want to play with the team are ruining the experience for the other five people, making the experience toxic. Not as far as to say it's worse than the harassment that happens, but still not inconsequential.
That said, this thread about stuff like women being immediately harassed for just speaking. You're not doing yourself any favours hijacking the thread for your crusade.
dehydratedbabies
Member
Oh yeah, I forgot that dunkey already perfectly illustrated what Overwatch's community is like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR3HFEeC3_E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-khGy_yN8E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR3HFEeC3_E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-khGy_yN8E
finalflame
Member
To clarify:
I think any sort of sexist, racist, demeaning, or otherwise offensive behavior in online games or otherwise is abhorrent and should be punished. I said this from the get-go.
To me personally, I'd rather be insulted and/or called names than have a non-contributing team member on my team. I can mute people and move on with life, if they're contributing to the game and we win, I'm happy.
Yes, I realize other people's sensitivities are different. Just giving my $0.02.
I'll re-state that I think this is off-topic and the discussion has probably gone on for long enough, but I'll continue to engage if others do so as to not be seen as 'backing out' of the discussion.
You know that, save for a few matches, Dunkey is editing in footage from different matches than the one where teammates are bitching, right? Just look at the map on the close-up of the voice prompt and then the subsequent footage.
I think people who bitch in spawn before the game even begins are toxic and shitty, no reason to tilt the entire team before even trying. But people who refuse to switch when they're actually not contributing are also terrible.
In Australia it most certainly is a crime. Here somebody can be charged with "using a carriage service to menace, harass or cause offence" under the Telecommunications Act 1997. It can carry a 3 year prison sentence.
No, you're not. You're not 100% supportive of it. I'm not sure if you're even 1% supportive of it. Talk is cheap. What is already being done? I'll tell you what is already being done.
What is being done now is that people like Angry Fork (pro-tip: that's you) have an attitude that shit talking is the norm on the internet, and that racist, sexist, and other harassing forms of communication in online games is "fine" because there are tools available for victims to block/mute/report, and that the only other option is to "suck it up" whatever that means.
An attitude like this further normalizes such behavior and places the burden on victims to mitigate the bad experiences they have. That's a shitty attitude. The positive step is to have zero tolerance for people who are disrespectful and rude in public spaces. It's not enough to have laws and penalties. There should be social norms and expected behavior hammered into every decent person who wants to participate in society. When you hear about harassment, you don't go "lol I've been there done that, just suck it up, no big deal". It -is- a big deal. The fact that people still talk about this is evidence that it is a big deal. It means we as a gaming community on a whole have failed to make it such that when someone says something like that in a game, it is immediately condemned by everyone else on either team. That's the way it should be.
Frozenprince
Banned
I mean honestly the fact that we as a community have had over twenty years to fix this or at least make it marginally better and have done and accomplished fuck all and in fact, probably just let things get worse, it profoundly shameful.
This has been my experience on PC as well. I have been on teams with women before and there was no shit talk specifically relating to them being a woman. It's usually bad play or something like that being called out.
Newtype-001
Member
yup the community can downright suck at times
awful honestly atleast the worst that has happened in my games is
"is that a grill"
awful honestly atleast the worst that has happened in my games is
"is that a grill"
It won't get any better until Developers start enforcing zero tolerance bans and do it proactively at that.
People won't be better until they know there are consequences otherwise
you cant fix something thats broken.. people have problems past the video game that they take out online on other people... no single person who has respect for themselves should take anything said online remotely seriously.. instead of going deeper into the problem, just press the mute button/report and move on with your life. if the person actually gets offended / hurt by the others comments, they should not be playing an online game or on the internet in the first place. while i do not approve of toxic behavior, there is absolutely nothing anyone can do besides blizzard (in this case).
Professor Beef
Banned
I'm gonna take a wild shot in the dark and assume that Angry Fork, finalflame, and kcxiv are all straight white males.
Angry Fork
Member
I didn't backpedal I repeated what I said previously. I don't think people should be fined or put in jail for what they say online because online isn't real life as long as anonymity is maintained. It becomes different with shit like twitter/facebook where real world repercussions for shit like that are justifiable.
I'm fine with everything else for maintaining ethical behavior in games though (temp bans/perm bans continued harassment and muting/blocking features). The logistics of this is always going to leave something to be desired though as long as there isn't a high enough number of employees to deal with reports + reporting systems which are automated and allow some to bypass it.
My "100% support" of people being nicer is in real life, where it would be most effective. People being shitty online is an extension of failures in their real life. People who talk shit online either also do it in real life or at the very least think the same in real life as well (but might not do it because of legal repercussions, which I support in real life). I don't consider online gaming to be the same as real life though, just like I don't think killing people in games makes me want to kill people in real life.
If you want to separate general shit talk (ie "you suck at this game, you're a fucking idiot" etc.) from personal shit talk (ie "women should be in the kitchen", racist insults, etc.) that's fine and punishments should be dealt for personal shit talk (reporting systems and temp/permanent bans). I don't think there should be any punishments for general shit talk though.
If you think someone saying personal shit talk online (or general as well) should be visited by their local police, then like I said earlier that's ok that's a valid opinion to have, I just disagree and think that's Orwellian.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
And how do you propose on doing this "zero tolerance bans"?
What would happen if someone is salty over you beating him or her and then he or she reported you and you got banned because of that zero tolerance ban? If you contest it, how would the developer know which one of you is actually telling the truth? The only "fair" thing to do in that situation is maybe banning you both but you won't be happy with that, will you?
Short of actually doing live recording the actual voice chat that the players are doing or have someone from the developer side actively listening to the voicechat, which is a massive undertaking not only in terms of data storage but also privacy, or banning voice chat entirely like what Nintendo is doing with Splatoon, you just can't realistically implement something that can magically erase online trolls harassing people. .
In a world where voice recognition in consumer devices is a thing, the simple solution seems to be that when a person is reported, in-game chat is recorded for a set period of time, sends it through voice recognition, and sends flagged transcripts to mods who can then proceed to issue bans as necessary.
There's a simple technology solution for publishers who can't be assed to police voice chat manually, and even that barest of minimums like that can't be achieved.
And that leads me to believe that publishers don't want to implement such systems because of how it would reduce their player base (read: cost them money), so they'd rather let it occur, the people who are marginalized out of playing the game be damned.
The moment you say something to another person, it has the capability of "real world repercussions". The venue that you say it on does not matter in the slightest, so I am not sure why you're making video game chat into an island apart.
There's a simple technology solution for publishers who can't be assed to police voice chat manually, and even that barest of minimums like that can't be achieved.
And that leads me to believe that publishers don't want to implement such systems because of how it would reduce their player base (read: cost them money), so they'd rather let it occur, the people who are marginalized out of playing the game be damned.
The moment you say something to another person, it has the capability of "real world repercussions". The venue that you say it on does not matter in the slightest, so I am not sure why you're making video game chat into an island apart.
finalflame
Member
Straight latino male. What's your point?
Gentleman Jack
Member
Imagine for a second that this is not a video game, but a restaurant, public park or other shared public space, and that we'd let things get to bad that a girl or black person walking in and trying to have a good time was met with relentless verbal abuse and threats. Would your response still be "just ignore it and move on with your life, if they can't deal with it they shouldn't be going to that park/eating at that restaurant/shopping outside in the first place?"
If not, why does it happening in a digital space get such a pass from you?
Because in this scenario, you can't do anything. What are you gonna do? Use your energy to stress yourself out over something you can't control or even physically see? Why would ANYONE waste energy digging deeper into the problem when they can spend it on something positive and something that matters? Like I said, theres only one option here.. whether you agree or not. .and that option is to click the mute button and report.
Professor Beef
Banned
It would make more sense to me that someone in a position of privilege would display the staggering amount of ignorance that all three of you have shown in this thread.
finalflame
Member
Great, happy to shatter your expectations.
The thing with this is, how do you even tell how effective it's being? I've reported a handful of random jerks but then... how can you tell if they're banned, or if you just don't run into them via matchmaking again?
I guess it's easy to tell on Blizzard's end, but as a consumer, even if they are banning every dickhead they detect, it simply seems as if there is a bottomless well of them
I guess it's easy to tell on Blizzard's end, but as a consumer, even if they are banning every dickhead they detect, it simply seems as if there is a bottomless well of them
I don't get paid for that, champ
These competitive players typically have a superiority complex.
Other people's feelings be damned, as long as they have a high Skill Rating.
So yeah, I assume many of them are white and straight.
Professor Beef
Banned
Bans don't stop people if they really wanna play a game. And if people are willing to pony up the cash to buy another account, why would Blizzard stop that gravy train?
While I'm not white, your post is pretty stupid. That is all.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
How exactly? If A says "Fuck you, you suck you bitch!" to B and then B reported it to the developer, only after that then the "voice recognition technology" is activated to record A and A only every time he logs on to the game? So, after the harassment is being made?
And what would happen if B said A is lying? The same system should then be also activated to record A every time she logs in and use voice chat? What about if there's actually another person using the same console but they use A or B account? Should the developer require them to give consent as well before start recording? And how do you actually propose such a "simple voice recognition technology" be implemented in a scale of millions of players like Overwatch?
So you are mad because you expect the developer to do something impossible that you also don't know how to implement in a realistic scenario.
Okay then, "champ."