Support NeoGAF

[scoobs]

I cannot imagine how they could pull off a kinect only shooter and have it appeal to the hardcore. Im hoping it surprises everyone but I just cant think of a way to make it work

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

What do people find appealing about head tracking? I'm not being sarcastic so I'm sorry if it comes off that way, I'm just genuinely curious because I personally don't understand the appeal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dnMsmajogA

For instance. Or looking into the apex in driving games. Or peeking behind cover. Most of all, it just feels cool when things on the screen change based on your movement.

 

[Reckless Onion]

I'm curious how they gonna handle an fps with kinect. E3 is gonna be interesting.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

AAA Kinect Core Shooter is like a quadruple oxymoron.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

Because peaking over cover is clumsy as hell in FPS games, and looking out of your window with the right stick in a driving game will make me crash or drive of course. Moving that stuff to me head, and simple movements there would remove that problem for me personally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dnMsmajogA

For instance. Or looking into the apex in driving games. Or peeking behind cover. Most of all, it just feels cool when things on the screen change based on your movement.

Interesting. I would definitely like to try something like that out but I have a feeling I would get bored of it or find it kind of pointless rather quickly. You never know, though.

 

[fistwell_old]

Core kinect shooter... seriously?

 

[Mr_Zombie]

What do people find appealing about head tracking? I'm not being sarcastic so I'm sorry if it comes off that way, I'm just genuinely curious because I personally don't understand the appeal.

Don't say that, while playing shooters (especially fps), you've never leaned left and right to "see" what's around the corner. With head tracking, you can actually implement that.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Pew Pew?

 

[1-D_FTW]

Sounds like an exciting E3 for MS fans.

 

[alr1ght]

 

[Wazzim]

We'll see, maybe they will really pull it off and make a good game.

 

[obonicus]

Go tell it to real soldiers.

Seriously?

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

Don't say that, while playing shooters (especially fps), you've never leaned left and right to "see" what's around the corner. With head tracking, you can actually implement that.

It sounds kind of cool but I can honestly say that if I had the option I would still rather play with it off. I'm not sure I like the idea of my head movements impacting what's happening on the TV while I'm playing a fast-paced FPS. It just seems kind of gimmicky.

 

[JaggedSac]

Core kinect shooter... seriously?

lol, I never really noticed how fucking cool the guy in the background looks playing a shooter with the Move.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

lol, I never really noticed how fucking cool the guy in the background looks playing a shooter with the Move.

I thought he was just interviewing the TV.

 

[JWong]

Big Park got forced into a situation where they had no choice but to release a low scoring Kinect game. I'd hate to think what Microsoft would do to this studio.

Well, as long as it creates jobs and stuff.

 

[C-Jo]

New Microsoft studio in Vancouver? Graduation in less than 2 months? I like this timing. Go Vancouver.

 

[Alexios]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dnMsmajogA

For instance. Or looking into the apex in driving games. Or peeking behind cover. Most of all, it just feels cool when things on the screen change based on your movement.

Not sure how this can be implemented effectively in an FPS where your character movement and view is based on the analog sticks and not your head as in the video. Moving forward or left or right in that case wouldn't make my character move as in that video and give that different angle that enables a 3D-like effect.

So in the case of an FPS it seems all headtracking would do is be another way to slightly rotate the camera which wouldn't give this impressive 3D effect. Basically an alternative to the right stick on consoles. I guess it could also have extra functions like leaning.

But it would also have to have strict limits to not break the way you look at the gun and other things, glitch into scenery or whatever else, since your physical movement won't be restricted yet your in game character wouldn't necessarily be able to move in such ways in his environment. And of course sensitivity wouldn't be true to life as in that video either, since you shouldn't have to turn 180 to look behind you as then you won't be looking at the TV.

Of course if this game is all kinect and no analog sticks at all there are other issues like, how would you move beyond a 2x2m area in front of your tv and so beyond a 2x2m area within the game world? The 3D effect would be cool within this area, but also break the immersion when you do whatever head or body gesture you will be required you do to keep exploring the 3D environment beyond the physical confines of the room you're in, and keeping the TV still in view.

And yes I've seen headtracking in various PC games, including FPS, and I've not seen any where you get this 3D effect demonstrated with the likes of Kinect or Johnny Lee's early Wii homebrew work, due to some of the reasons I've explained here. All they add is another input method that people may or may not like, though it can be useful for things like flight sims, but not "feels cool when things on the screen change based on your movement" as it appears in videos like you linked.

Best case scenario for such technology would be a rail shooter that mimics Johnny Lee's Wii setup to the letter (but thrusts you forward etc, not static). Not much beyond this.

 

[Krauser Kat]

a AAA kinect shooter sounds like an oxy moron. Unless they just throw tons of money at something that ends up just not being fun.

 

[JWong]

New Microsoft studio in Vancouver? Graduation in less than 2 months? I like this timing. Go Vancouver.

Not as easy as you think. Especially with two major studio layoffs in recent time.

 

[C-Jo]

Not as easy as you think. Especially with two major studio layoffs in recent time.

Who said easy? New studio is better than no new studio.

 

[Fallout-NL]

Core AAA shooters for Kinect.

Seems like a waste of money and effort. The interface simply isn't precise and responsive enough.

 

[StealthGoblin]

So I'm guessing this must be a hybrid game. No way this thing will be Kinect only.

 

[Neuromancer]

Whatever it is, I'm interested. My Kinect is gathering dust!

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Not sure how this can be implemented effectively in an FPS where your character movement and view is based on the analog sticks and not your head. Moving forward or left or right in that case wouldn't make my character move as in that video and give that different angle.

It all depends on how it's implemented, there are several possible ways. Depending on whether your head moves the camera or the camera target (and what other controls do, whether there's a view lock and so on), some implementations can replicate the effect. In any case, it's an interesting additional tool for designers to toy with.

But that effect is not the only potential benefit of head tracking, like it's already been explained.

But it would also have to have strict limits to not break the way you look at the gun and other things, glitch into scenery or whatever else, since your physical movement won't be restricted yet your in game character wouldn't necessarily be able to move in such ways in his environment.

Sure, some limitations would exist. All games have certain limitations, there's no escaping that.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

Best case scenario for such technology would be a rail shooter that mimics Johnny Lee's Wii setup to the letter (but thrusts you forward etc, not static). Not much beyond this.

I think this video better demonstrates the possibilities of head tracking in a shooter. It deals with racing earlier on too, which we know is coming in Forza 4.

The 3D-esque perspective head tracking demonstrated by the cube video, Johnny Lee and the 3Di I think could be better used in puzzle games, or a platformer of some sort. We know XBLA games are coming with Kinect Support (Doodle Jump, Fruit Ninja) so I hope there will be some unique titles that might make use of that at E3.

Seems like a waste of money and effort. The interface simply isn't precise and responsive enough.

Based on launch software and firmware. We already know Kinect isn't limited to the performance of it's launch games. The latest videos of Child of Eden look much tighter than any other pointer control I've tried with Kinect

 

[Crazymoogle]

snoopeasystreet, gj not reading my post. MS has two downtown studios a block apart - BigPark is on their own beside BC Place Stadium. MGS Vancouver is above Ubisoft and across the street from Next Level Games.

They pretty much had to expand this way as a) large amounts of space in downtown Vancouver are difficult to get and expensive to pay for, and b) getting work visa's for the US is nearly impossible.

Who said easy? New studio is better than no new studio.

It's not actually a "new studio". MGS Vancouver has been in that space for more than a year. As I understand it, due to the change in focus they now need people with UDK-type backgrounds...

 

[Alexios]

I think this video better demonstrates the possibilities of head tracking in a shooter

Yes I've addressed it in my post.

It all depends on how it's implemented

Yes, I was mainly discussing that video's implementation which is always brought up because of how cool and 3D like it looks despite usability issues. Headtracking itself as in the FPS video linked above isn't anything new, many people are able to experience it one way or another (these days you can even use any crappy non HD webcam for pretty decent headtracking implementations) but most people apparently choose not to, outside enthusiasts of certain genres like say, WW2 flight sims which aren't likely to go mainstream any time soon for Kinect to make any sort of real impact with them. So yeah implementation like in that FPS video can occur, but I don't think many will consider it an improvement or valuable addition over standard controls, as most tend to stick to the mouse and keyboard alone on PC too.

 

[StealthGoblin]

Based on launch software and firmware. We already know Kinect isn't limited to the performance of it's launch games. The latest videos of Child of Eden look much tighter than any other pointer control I've tried with Kinect

While true, is it good enough for a fast paced online FPS?

 

[TheOddOne]

It's not actually a "new studio". MGS Vancouver has been in that space for more than a year. As I understand it, due to the change in focus they now need people with UDK-type backgrounds...

Maby they where there, but where working on the low?

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

While true, is it good enough for a fast paced online FPS?

We'll have to wait and see. If it's Kinect only, everyone will be on the same level so it will depend on if it's actually frustrating to play or not, but I don't think Microsoft would release a game of this type unless they've figured out a way to get it to work well (at least for the Kinect audience; I think the majority of GAF will be dismissive regardless).

 

[Philthy]

They need to make a Godzilla game where you stomp a city in your living room.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

They need to make a Godzilla game where you stomp a city in your living room.

Rumour has it the Star Wars Kinect game will let you play as a Rancor and do exactly that.

 

[StealthGoblin]

We'll have to wait and see. If it's Kinect only, everyone will be on the same level so it will depend on if it's actually frustrating to play or not, but I don't think Microsoft would release a game of this type unless they've figured out a way to get it to work well (at least for the Kinect audience; I think the majority of GAF will be dismissive regardless).

Indeed. I suspect this will be a hybrid game, but will feature a lot of Kinect support (Voice, hand signals, instant player recognition to get your load out for the online done quick etc)

If it works and works well, I'm game for this. Its nice to see Microsoft:

a) Forming some new first party studios
b) Developing more 'Core' properties
c) Actually making 'Core' Kinect games themselves.

 

[C-Jo]

It's not actually a "new studio". MGS Vancouver has been in that space for more than a year. As I understand it, due to the change in focus they now need people with UDK-type backgrounds...

Yeah, that makes sense. I knew MGS Vancouver was around, I just wasn't sure on how they related to Big Park, and if there were doing their own thing. This is pretty cool though, the project sounds really interesting, potentially anyway.

 

[Alx]

Whatever they're making, I hope it's not a regular shooter, with guns and crosshairs and everything. First because we already have enough of those, and second because it's not the best thing to do with kinect (you don't aim with your body, you aim with a tool).

I'm still waiting to see what they will come up with, though. I hope that one day a developer will fullfill my child dream of playing Tron with real gestures : throwing the frisbee (I mean, data disk), using it as a shield etc. It would still be a "shooter" technically, but an interesting one.
Other possibilities would be throwing spears, or boomerangs.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

Don't say that, while playing shooters (especially fps), you've never leaned left and right to "see" what's around the corner. With head tracking, you can actually implement that.

We've had this on the PC without having to move your whole head, it's called a "lean key".
Nothing AAA is ever going to come out of Kinect so this seems like kind of a misnomer.

 

[Neuromancer]

We've had this on the PC without having to move your whole head, it's called a "lean key".

Not as cool though. Besides there have been console games with lean buttons too.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

You'd rather tilt your whole head to get the precise spot with your controller neutral in your hand? That sounds terrible. I'd rather just press a key.

 

[SneakyStephan]

Damn, beaten already.

 

[Neuromancer]

You'd rather tilt your whole head to get the precise spot with your controller neutral in your hand? That sounds terrible. I'd rather just press a key.

I haven't tried it myself but PC gamers who use it for racing games and flight sims sure seem to enjoy it.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

Someone tell me when Kinect is actually used in a way that actually helps create an experience better than what we had before. Or someone creates a working control scheme for a real game that isn't like gunstringer/child of eden (two pointers)

 

[Malio]

Stiiiiill waiting for a reason to buy Kinect.

Maybe this will be the killer app!

Spoiler

smirk

 

[(._.)]

game will probably be terrible. doubt it will bomb though.

 

[Sydle]

Someone tell me when Kinect is actually used in a way that actually helps create an experience better than what we had before. Or someone creates a working control scheme for a real game that isn't like gunstringer/child of eden (two pointers)

Dance Central, Your Shape, and Kinect Sport have been out for months.

 

[AcceptableGhost]

Notice I said real games. Games for people who actually well, want to play games.

 

[Huff]

I guess I'm excited that MS is trying to support Kinect with games outside of dance and mini games, but I just have no faith in them pulling through with a actual good game here.

 

[Alx]

Notice I said real games. Games for people who actually well, want to play games.

I'm sure that all the people using kinect don't want to play games... they just thought it would look pretty on their TV.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

Notice I said real games. Games for people who actually well, want to play games.

So... how do you describe what "real games" are and how people playing those aforementioned titles differ from people "who actually want to play games"?

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

Whatever they're making, I hope it's not a regular shooter, with guns and crosshairs and everything. First because we already have enough of those, and second because it's not the best thing to do with kinect (you don't aim with your body, you aim with a tool).

I'm still waiting to see what they will come up with, though. I hope that one day a developer will fullfill my child dream of playing Tron with real gestures : throwing the frisbee (I mean, data disk), using it as a shield etc. It would still be a "shooter" technically, but an interesting one.
Other possibilities would be throwing spears, or boomerangs.

I have to agree. When Kinect was announced, I always wondered why people instantly said "How am I going to play Gears or Halo with that?" and I've always thought "why would you want to?" I think those that own Kinect want it for new experiences, not to replace a controller experience with your body.

Kinect Sports and Dance Central might not have been the most original games, but they work well because they play to Kinects strengths.

Is there room for Kinect in a shooter? I think so. I just don't think "play a standard shooter using Kinect instead" is it. It should either offer a new twist on the shooter, or complement traditional controls. The Gunstringer is a good example of how they made pew-pew look genuinely fun and not ridiculous. It's a unique concept that plays to Kinects strengths, rather than trying to force Kinect to work with a style of play that wasn't originally designed for Kinect in the first place.