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Microsoft needs more exclusives throughout the year

Same here. If you have a pc there is zero reason to buy one. Tbh even if I didnt own a pc, I would have no reason to buy one, because I still havent played any of the xbox store games anyway. The only reason why anyone I know owns an xbone is because they had friends that play on xbox live

I have an awesome PC, two Xbox Ones (an original and an S) and will preorder a One X as soon as they are available. I don't play online. I don't own a PS4 or Switch.

So there must be more than 'zero reason to buy one', right?

Play Anywhere is a great, consumer friendly innovation by the way, and it's a real shame people use it as a negative constantly against them. That's fucked up.
 
The XBO is the only console I haven't buy since the PS2 Xbox Gamecube era. I even bought the Wii U despite how few games it had. The XBO has absolutely zero exclusive games that give me an excuse to buy.

Even a failure like Wii U had Bayonetta 2, Splatoon, Super Mario Maker that I needed the system to play. The few interesting XBO games can be played on other systems thus give me no excuse to buy the hardware. It probably is the most soulless and no-personality console ever.

I think barely anyone can think back in 20 years remembering what games or hardware features are tie to the XBO. The Wii U people will at least remember as a system with few cool exclusives and has a controller with a screen.

Same here. If you have a pc there is zero reason to buy one. Tbh even if I didnt own a pc, I would have no reason to buy one, because I still havent played any of the xbox store games anyway. The only reason why anyone I know owns an xbone is because they had friends that play on xbox live


Wooow posts like these...there's just no chance, or why even bother, @$!# it!
 

Drek

Member
And what do you think MS did in the 360 generation? They did exactly that. There were years where they had an exclusive game practicality every month. Sony didnt do anything MS hasn't already done on 360. If they dont have enough right now and rely on Halo, Gears, etc, they wont launch those AAA games in April.

1. The only period during the X360 where MS had a substantial amount of exclusives was in the early years, namely in the first year before the PS3 was out and they therefore received a bunch of defecto exclusives as the only next generation platform.

2. They used to have enough first party presence to fill out a calendar. During the middle years of the X360 generation they cut almost all of them and several of the survivors from that period have since been axed as well.

3. Regardless of how many total AAA games they're releasing in a year they'd be better off moving Halo, Gears, etc. to the spring. Third party AAA games dominate the holiday window. Releasing a Halo or Gears within the same window as Battlefield, COD, Destiny, etc. is just bad strategy. Halo releases used to be an event, now they're just another big AAA release in a period stuffed with big AAA releases.

Well for one, MS came out of the gate this generation with two broken legs and a neck brace. Is it really that surprising that they are struggling, especially compared to the system with far more global appeal? I for one am shocked I tell ya.
MS had multiple third parties behind them with their DMR bullshit and even turned it into meaningful exclusive content and games (FIFA Ultimate Team exclusives and Titanfall, both from EA, to name a few).

Their hardware design kneecapped them, sure, but so did Sony's with the PS3 and Sony's move to a full year release calendar was a huge part of rallying back and ending in an effective tie with the X360 despite the 360 having an entire extra year of sales.

MS could have attempted the same strategy.

Also, Sony has the luxury of a Japanese market that will eat those games up, and a stable of old japanese IP's they can fall back on dating back to the PS1 before the OG xbox existed.
Such as? What Sony first party title is a big seller in Japan? What PS1 Japanese IP are they banking on so hard?

It's not surprising and not necessarily this brilliant strategy lol. With the exception of maybe Bloodborne, MS could release the same line up of games and sales would be pretty poor.
And Uncharted, Horizon, Ratchet and Clank, Infamous, Killzone, Driveclub, God of War, MLB: The Show, etc.. Turns out most of Sony's big first party IPs are actually very western focused. Shocking, I tell ya.

And by having so many Japanese games Sony can ultimately stagger their releases more frequently throughout the year. Without all the extra niche games I'm not sure Sony would gamble on releasing their big hitters outside of Q3 and Q4 either.
They traditionally release God of War outside of the holiday season. They released Uncharted 4 outside of the holiday season. The Last of Us, Bloodborne, Horizon, and their big Spider-Man exclusive next year were also Q1/Q2 titles.

The only big first party IP Sony still releases in the holiday window is Gran Turismo, but that's likely because third parties don't service the driving sim audience at all so there isn't market competition to schedule away from.

For Sony, Bloodbourne was a fantastic exclusive for the PS4. At the same time though, Fromsoftware would never have been willing to make the same game or something similar as an exclusive for the Xbox One. And the excitement for the game was largely because Fromsoftware is behind the Dark Souls series. So kudos to Sony I guess.
From made two Otogi games and Metal Wolf Chaos exclusively for the original Xbox. They made Ninja Blade in a partnership with MS at the same time they were making Demon's Souls and it was the higher profile title in-house.

So what's that about From never being willing to make the same game or something similar as an exclusive for Xbox?

Persona was already a successful game series dating back to the Playstation 1. Persona 5 was supposed to come out in 2014 and was instead delayed 2 more years. Not exactly a brilliant strategy but yes it worked. Sony has a much larger store of old IP's to go back to, which people seem to ignore or discount a lot of the time.
Persona has been a niche franchise that has blossomed some recently. It is an example of how Sony's first party release strategy, having given them the edge in filling out the calendar and taking a commanding lead i hardware sales, has been translated to 3rd party exclusives with success. Also, games get delayed, I don't see the relevance here.

Nioh's development started in 2004 lol. It's great that Sony finally released it for the PS4, but don't act like it was this brilliantly planned game that they developed recently with the sole intent to counter Dark Souls 3.
The game was canned multiple times along the way. The fact that something vaguely related was scoped in 2004 is completely irrelevant.

Nier was originally multiplatform, released on both the ps3 and 360, probably because the 360 was doing so well. Shocker that Nier Automata isn't multiplatform this time around now that the One is not doing as well.
Um, that's kind of the point. Sony is picking up free 3rd party exclusives now because of their market advantage, a market advantage in large part created by their first party strategy.

Also, Ni No Kuni is coming to PC. Can I use the "it doesn't count as an exclusive" argument lol?
What windmill are you tilting at here? I can't recall every arguing that a PC version invalidates a console exclusive. MS' stated first party commitment to PC releases surely hurt XBox sales, but that doesn't make those titles less compelling.

But then this is just the cherry on top of your entire disingenuous response. Nier is on PC as well, why wasn't that pointed out? Or could you just not come up with some other absurd reason to discount Ni No Kuni so suddenly that matters? Obviously a rhetorical question as I think the answer is pretty clear to everyone.

The funny thing about it all is that unless you're really into Japanese games, most of those games are by and large unappealing. I for example and not really interested in them. So even with the extra number of exclusives for the PS4, it doesn't do anything to persuade me to buy one.
So ignoring all the western first party titles still. Sure.

Your argument would make more sense a decade ago when Japan was a major market for home console video game systems and software. Now a major part of Sony's worldwide lead over MS comes from a far stronger presence throughout Europe. Is that because of Japanese games too?

But mainly I just wanted to point out that it's not that hard to have this strategy of staggering releases through out the year when you have so many niche game IP's to use and the benefit of a market that will buy them.
Again, Sony gets their major AAA titles out of the holiday season as well, then uses them as bundle fodder to help drive hardware sales when 3rd parties are picking up the major new release side of the market. P5, Nier, Nioh, etc. are icing on the cake now thanks to how Sony managed the releases of Infamous, Bloodborne, Uncharted, and Horizon, as major first party offerings in the early part of the year to keep interest up and let those titles breathe from a sales and press coverage standpoint.

Just not seeing it as a knock against MS which doesnt have that luxury, nor the luxury of record sales this gen to be putting in all their chips on new IPs, especially niche ones.
First, why are they releasing Gears and Halo directly against CoD, BF, Destiny, etc.? That is absurd. Halo and Gears shouldn't be within three months of other major shooter releases.

Second, MS is the richest company active in this industry. They spent $400M on a marketing deal with the NFL that produced basically nothing, and they've been paying out cash for things like timed exclusives on streaming services (HBO for example) and an Halo based show that is basically MS' own version of vaporware.

They do this while licensing out IPs like Shadowrun and MechWarrior to smaller studios who then make profitable games with them, because MS can't be bothered to figure out how to make money on those products.

They do this while driving off the primary creative staff at Lionhead by making them focus on Kinect games instead of a real next iteration in the Fable franchise, then shift all the leftover folks onto an F2P MOBA they kill basically on the doorstep of release because it wasn't particularly good.

They do this while funding a new IP from Black Tusk, then shut it down to re-purpose the studio in a Gears factory, complete with a re-name because MS is simply not willing to carry more first party studios than they have existing marketable AAA IPs.

The strategies aren't hard to understand, which is why we can talk about them with some level of accuracy on a fan board. The challenge is in execution and while MS has paid lip service to their desire to broaden the first party base they haven't delivered on it. Either they don't get this relatively simple concept, are being dishonest in their commitment, or are just exceedingly inept. I'm personally betting on a combination of all three.
 

SpotAnime

Member
There is a thread on Reddit linking to an article where they said the Switch has more exclusives than the Xbox One this year, using the correlation that Microsoft and Nintendo are both in console launch years (Switch and Xbox One X). The comparison was also on "big-budget retail releases", but one can argue budget doesn't translate to quality.

So I pulled the list of Xbox One releases on Wikipedia and came up with the following "exclusive" counts (meaning, platform or console exclusives not timed, including physical and digital):

Year 1: 21 games
Year 2: 28 games
Year 3: 40 games
Year 4 (announced games to November 2017): 33

These counts do not include timed exclusives, but the list is a bit subject as they listed Dead Rising 4 as a timed exclusive but it's just planned for Xbox One and Windows so it should be a platform exclusive).

Also, the list from Year 1 differs greatly from Year 4 in that over the course of time the list is filled by more and more smaller digital releases (see: Threes, Draw a Stickman, etc.).

Gematsu has a nice list, not filtered by date though, of retail vs digital exclusives on Xbox One:

http://gematsu.com/exclusives/xbox-one

What is clear is that even starting in Year 2, big budget physical exclusives were starting to dwindle - By my count, 12 in Year 1 vs 6 in Year 2 (Ori wasn't physical until the Definitive Edition in Year 3, RotTR was timed so it also isn't counted).

Also according to the list, I took a look at FTP games on the console and did not see a marked increase in those games as a service on the platform. Using the above criteria there are 8 FTP games exclusive on the console:

Year 1: 2
Year 2: 2
Year 3: 2
Year 4 (to date): 2

So it's not like MS is putting their money in one bucket over another for game development, it just seems like the bucket is getting smaller and smaller for exclusive games overall.
 
Yep it's the reason I wont buy an X1X. I might buy an S at some point just so I can have a 4K blu ray player, but for now I'm just sticking with my original Xbox One for Crackdown, Super Luckys Tale, and Sea Of Thieves (and possibly Cuphead).

I don't really think I've turned the thing on this year and it's been relegated to the basement. So I'll probably play through those upcoming games and get rid of it.

Almost zero reason to own it when I've got a PS4 and a Switch.
 
There is a thread on Reddit linking to an article where they said the Switch has more exclusives than the Xbox One this year, using the correlation that Microsoft and Nintendo are both in console launch years (Switch and Xbox One X). The comparison was also on "big-budget retail releases", but one can argue budget doesn't translate to quality.
.
Probably one of the dumbest things I've seen lately haha

Comparing a brand new platform launch to a console that is a revision is pretty dumb. Disregarding the results that just not a very good comparison. And yes; MS exclusives this year are still lacking but still a bit of a reach on that article authors part

http://gamingbolt.com/the-switch-wi...-has-had-in-all-of-2016-and-2017-put-together
 

Goalus

Member
I have an awesome PC, two Xbox Ones (an original and an S) and will preorder a One X as soon as they are available. I don't play online. I don't own a PS4 or Switch.

So there must be more than 'zero reason to buy one', right?

Agreed. It's hilarious to learn from other people that there is no reason to buy an Xbox.

I have
- no PS4
- no Switch
- no capable PC

- an Xbox One
- an Xbox One S
and will buy an Xbox One X next year.

I must be doing this for no reason.

Play Anywhere is a great, consumer friendly innovation by the way, and it's a real shame people use it as a negative constantly against them. That's fucked up.

From a bird brain's perspective Play Anywhere is a probably a bad thing, to be fair.
 
Probably one of the dumbest things I've seen lately haha

Comparing a brand new platform launch to a console that is a revision is pretty dumb. Disregarding the results that just not a very good comparison. And yes; MS exclusives this year are still lacking but still a bit of a reach on that article authors part

http://gamingbolt.com/the-switch-wi...-has-had-in-all-of-2016-and-2017-put-together

I don't think it is a bad comparison when you step back and think about it. The first party exclusive lineup for the Nintendo Switch is abnormal for a console in its launch year. Nintendo has already released big guns like Zelda, Mario Kart (a port admittedly), Splatoon 2, Arms and still have a new 3D Mario, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and a handful of other titles scheduled for later in the year. I can't name the last time I saw such a strong line up for a console that has been on the market for less than half a year. The Xbox One is in it's 4th year. Development pipelines should have matured to the point that Microsoft is pumping out software left and right, but they're not. The fact that the line up for a console that is brand new on the scene is showing them up isn't exactly a good look and actually speaks to how much they're dropping the ball on first party software.

You know as well as I do that there were plenty of people not only on GAF but across the internet that had convinced themselves that the Scorpio would usher in a resurgence in Microsoft's first party efforts, especially considering the amount of hype they're putting behind the system as if it's a brand new console generation launch. And yet here we are, this proved to be a dream at best. Having said all of that, I don't know what Microsoft can do at this point. They just don't have the studios to commit to the kind of software output as Nintendo or Sony and to do so, they have to build studios and nurture talent, something that takes years and something they should have been doing a decade ago. Instead, the opposite has happened. The direction they're going in is clear, but a lot of fans refuse to believe it and continue to say "Wait until E3 20XX".
 

scoobs

Member
Agreed. It's hilarious to learn from other people that there is no reason to buy an Xbox.

I have
- no PS4
- no Switch
- no capable PC

- an Xbox One
- an Xbox One S
and will buy an Xbox One X next year.

I must be doing this for no reason.



From a bird brain's perspective Play Anywhere is a probably a bad thing, to be fair.
Well brand loyalty plays a role too. You're going to have purchased 3 Xboxs and 0 anything else, might have something to do with it.
 
I don't think it is a bad comparison when you step back and think about it. The first party exclusive lineup for the Nintendo Switch is abnormal for a console in its launch year. Nintendo has already released big guns like Zelda, Mario Kart (a port admittedly), Splatoon 2, Arms and still have a new 3D Mario, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and a handful of other titles scheduled for later in the year. I can't name the last time I saw such a strong line up for a console that has been on the market for less than half a year. The Xbox One is in it's 4th year. Development pipelines should have matured to the point that Microsoft is pumping out software left and right, but they're not. The fact that the line up for a console that is brand new on the scene is showing them up isn't exactly a good look and actually speaks to how much they're dropping the ball on first party software.

You know as well as I do that there were plenty of people not only on GAF but across the internet that had convinced themselves that the Scorpio would usher in a resurgence in Microsoft's first party efforts, especially considering the amount of hype they're putting behind the system as if it's a brand new console generation launch. And yet here we are, this proved to be a dream at best. Having said all of that, I don't know what Microsoft can do at this point. They just don't have the studios to commit to the kind of software output as Nintendo or Sony and to do so, they have to build studios and nurture talent, something that takes years and something they should have been doing a decade ago. Instead, the opposite has happened. The direction they're going in is clear, but a lot of fans refuse to believe it and continue to say "Wait until E3 20XX".
I think it was more of the mental gymnastics in some parts of the article that got me. "Ya 1-2 Switch is a 58 MC, but Recore is a 63 so it's a wash!" What's MC have to do with anything? They both count just the same. Also talking about how Switch has 6 genres released while Xbox had 5, as if that is supposed to be some sticking point for anything?

Also why are we comparing Switch year 1 to Xbox year 4? Should be Switch year 1 to Xbox year 1 if we going to compare launch lineups. Comparing it to this year just because a revision is launching is a bit thin imo
 

Jagernaut

Member
Agreed. It's hilarious to learn from other people that there is no reason to buy an Xbox.

I have
- no PS4
- no Switch
- no capable PC

- an Xbox One
- an Xbox One S
and will buy an Xbox One X next year.

I must be doing this for no reason.



From a bird brain's perspective Play Anywhere is a probably a bad thing, to be fair.

You guys are extreme outliers. You will buy 3 versions of the same console (that play the same exact games) but won't buy other consoles from other companies. Not something the average gamer would do.
 

David___

Banned
Agreed. It's hilarious to learn from other people that there is no reason to buy an Xbox.

I have
- no PS4
- no Switch
- no capable PC

- an Xbox One
- an Xbox One S
and will buy an Xbox One X next year.

I must be doing this for no reason.



From a bird brain's perspective Play Anywhere is a probably a bad thing, to be fair.
Assuming you bought all of them at launch, you spent $1400 on hardware for the same platform that plays the exact same games. Most people don't do that
 

cakely

Member
Agreed. It's hilarious to learn from other people that there is no reason to buy an Xbox.

I have
- no PS4
- no Switch
- no capable PC

- an Xbox One
- an Xbox One S
and will buy an Xbox One X next year.

I must be doing this for no reason.

There's a very simple explanation: You have brand loyalty to Microsoft.
 
I think it was more of the mental gymnastics in some parts of the article that got me. "Ya 1-2 Switch is a 58 MC, but Recore is a 63 so it's a wash!" What's MC have to do with anything? They both count just the same. Also talking about how Switch has 6 genres released while Xbox had 5, as if that is supposed to be some sticking point for anything?

Also why are we comparing Switch year 1 to Xbox year 4? Should be Switch year 1 to Xbox year 1 if we going to compare launch lineups. Comparing it to this year just because a revision is launching is a bit thin imo

The way I see it, the Switch is competing with an Xbox One that is 4 years old. Not in it's launch year. By all counts the Xbox One has had a lot of software this year, which it owes to rock solid third party support which is great, but purely from a first party perspective, it's looking anemic.

Typically, launch years are the slowest for first party software in a console cycle. The reason why I bring it up is because conversely, the Xbox One's first party support is slowing down at the point that it should typically be at its strongest.

This is only compounded by the fact that Nintendo has just launched a new system and already have several first party titles ready or almost ready to drop. That said, it's just the reality of the situation and I'm just calling it how I see it. It's a strategy that works for a lot of their fans and I don't really think they're capable of achieving what their detractors want them to achieve.

The future of Xbox seems to be services, Windows 10 and being the all-round best hardware and platform to play the biggest third party franchises (PC/Steam fans would disagree that they can ever become this though). Whether or not this allows them to claw back marketshare from Sony or stave off getting overtaken by Nintendo remains to be seen, but that is clearly their strategy which I think is better than trying to be not-Sony.

Agreed. It's hilarious to learn from other people that there is no reason to buy an Xbox.

I have
- no PS4
- no Switch
- no capable PC

- an Xbox One
- an Xbox One S
and will buy an Xbox One X next year.

I must be doing this for no reason.



From a bird brain's perspective Play Anywhere is a probably a bad thing, to be fair.

You're a brand loyalist, that's the reason. Not a bad one by any means, but that's the reason.
 

Josman

Member
Agreed. It's hilarious to learn from other people that there is no reason to buy an Xbox.

I have
- no PS4
- no Switch
- no capable PC

- an Xbox One
- an Xbox One S
and will buy an Xbox One X next year.

I must be doing this for no reason.

Seems like because of your brand loyalty you only want to buy from Microsoft, even if you're unnecessarly cuting your posible catalog in half. You're kind of discrediting your point.
 

Drek

Member
Play Anywhere is a great, consumer friendly innovation by the way, and it's a real shame people use it as a negative constantly against them. That's fucked up.

It is a great concept but it is also a negative as it pertains to selling Xbox hardware.

To me the real problem here is the hardware, honestly. They spend a ton of money on hardware R&D to basically package core Windows and DirectX APIs into a box to then push that to consumers instead of using the already incredibly successful gaming platform they already dominate, PCs, which would remove hardware overhead entirely from their budget.

The Xbox line could still exist as basically a HTPC product series and the front end for showing off new Xbox brand controllers, but MS needs to go one step further beyond Play Anywhere.

Their real problem is that they let Steam beat them to the punch as the primary PC marketplace for gamers, but that could be largely bridged if they'd stop making such shitty design decisions with Windows, the Windows Store, etc..

Hell, they could potentially even keep Xbox Live if they'd repackage it as a value added service instead of required for online play. Move it towards games as a service with expanded social features and members only tournaments, competitions, rankings, etc.. to further entice people in, but stop making it a paywall to online play and PC gamers will drop a lot of the hostility.

Instead MS is trying to play both sides. Make money on Xbox Live memberships while trying to reach out to PC gamers. What they're really doing is devaluing both versions (the Xbox version has less ability to push hardware while the PC version is looked at as a tainted product because of the walled garden of MS' ecosystem you need to enter to buy it). It's more value in total for people who actually care to cross-play between Xbox and PC, but I have a hard time seeing that as a major audience for them.
 

Humdinger

Member
So it's not like MS is putting their money in one bucket over another for game development, it just seems like the bucket is getting smaller and smaller for exclusive games overall.

Yeah. Here's another way of looking at it. Credit to Nightengale. This is a list of new IPs announced, over time. It counts not just E3 announcements but any announcements made during that year. The decline is very clear.

DCHcfMbVwAQ3sjo.jpg


This is only compounded by the fact that Nintendo has just launched a new system and already have several first party titles ready or almost ready to drop.

Nintendo has done a great job, but one reason the Switch's release year has been so stacked is because it contains titles that were originally intended for the struggling Wii U but instead delayed to coincide with the Switch launch (e.g., Zelda) or are ported from the Wii U (e.g., Mario). In part, I think the Switch's strong first year has something to do with the weak Wii U that led up to it.

Not that I'm complaining. I didn't buy a Wii U, so I'm eager to see the best of that library ported.
 

Finaj

Member
Well, we've already established that MS doesn't really have any interest in expanding their first party right now.

My question is, what do you think the breaking point will be? What series of circumstances do you think MS will have to find themselves in before they decide they need change?

Or do you think there's nothing that will change MS's current trajectory?
 

Drek

Member
Well, we've already established that MS doesn't really have any interest in expanding their first party right now.

My question is, what do you think the breaking point will be? What series of circumstances do you think MS will have to find themselves in before they decide they need change?

Or do you think there's nothing that will change MS's current trajectory?

Nothing will change it and over time MS will phase video games out of their portfolio. There will be an ebb and flow to that process, but their commitment peaked when they first entered the market and has been declining ever since. That's MS' standard practice on any product launch if the product doesn't gain immediate traction. Same as Zune, Windows phones, etc..

There are simply more profitable ways for MS to spend $50M than a new AAA IP. For Sony and Nintendo there is no better return on investment opportunities to compete with. MS could probably beat the industry average return on investment by just building $50M worth of rack servers for more industry side cloud computing capacity.
 

nekkid

It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
Nothing will change it and over time MS will phase video games out of their portfolio. There will be an ebb and flow to that process, but their commitment peaked when they first entered the market and has been declining ever since. That's MS' standard practice on any product launch if the product doesn't gain immediate traction. Same as Zune, Windows phones, etc..

There are simply more profitable ways for MS to spend $50M than a new AAA IP. For Sony and Nintendo there is no better return on investment opportunities to compete with. MS could probably beat the industry average return on investment by just building $50M worth of rack servers for more industry side cloud computing capacity.

It's not as simple as that. The gaming side of the business does more for MS than the revenue the games generate.

Mindshare amongst the young, via Xbox, is worth a lot more to other areas of their business.

It's not winding down. Not under Nadella, at least.
 

Humdinger

Member
Well, we've already established that MS doesn't really have any interest in expanding their first party right now.

My question is, what do you think the breaking point will be? What series of circumstances do you think MS will have to find themselves in before they decide they need change?

Or do you think there's nothing that will change MS's current trajectory?

I think they are already in the process of changing their trajectory. They are investing heavily in the GaaS model, which means reduction in new SP-focused content and increasing reliance on trying to monetize their existing franchises through multiplayer DLC, MTs, etc.

I expect a couple of new IPs over the next 2-3 years, which will be predominantly multiplayer, GaaS-type games.

This is part of what disappoints me. It's not just the decline in new IPs or exclusives. It's the shift to the multiplayer focused GaaS-type games, which I have little interest in.
 

Keinning

Member
I think they are already in the process of changing their trajectory. They are investing heavily in the GaaS model, which means reduction in new SP-focused content and increasing reliance on trying to monetize their existing franchises through multiplayer DLC, MTs, etc.

I expect a couple of new IPs over the next 2-3 years, which will be predominantly multiplayer, GaaS-type games.

This is part of what disappoints me. It's not just the decline in new IPs or exclusives. It's the shift to the multiplayer focused GaaS-type games, which I have little interest in.

They got four exclusives (SoD 2, cuphead, crackdown) coming out soon and only one of them is focused on multiplayer/GaaS (sea of thieves)

it's alright to not be interested in the games for what they are, but don't paint them in this narrative which is untrue.
 
They got four exclusives (SoD 2, cuphead, crackdown) coming out soon and only one of them is focused on multiplayer/GaaS (sea of thieves)

it's alright to not be interested in the games for what they are, but don't paint them in this narrative which is untrue.
Those games have been greenlit and developed years before now.
 
D

Deleted member 471617

Unconfirmed Member
One of the problems with Microsoft exclusives is that they either cancel the game or half ass it. ReCore is a perfect example as it appears we're only weeks away from an announcement and release of the Definitive Edition. To me, this is a joke. It was said that the game had 2-2 1/2 years of development time yet released with bugs/glitches, horrible loading times and missing one or two characters despite being on the cover of the game. Instead of rushing this game out, you would think that Microsoft/Spencer would just delay the game a year and release a far better playing and running version while at the same time, avoiding the "definitive edition", adding 4K/HDR elements, adding the missing characters, missions, etc. and adding an exclusive to a weak year.

With FH3 and GOW4 last fall, ReCore wasn't needed at all and should have been delayed a year. Granted, this isn't just Microsoft that does this but they have less exclusives than the competition and less games than third party publishers so rushing out a game simply makes no sense to me when they could easily delay it, make it better and give it a far better chance at success while at the same time, adding another exclusive to a weak year.

As for the Switch exclusives comparison, the first year for Switch is still far better and more impressive than what Xbox One had in it's first year and I have no interest in Switch, Zelda and Mario but that console still has the far better first year lineup. Comparing the first year of Switch to the fourth year of Xbox One is even worse for Microsoft and Xbox One because you would think that the fourth year would be even better than the first year but it's not and arguably, even worse. As the years pass, the exclusive software is supposed to get better in every way, not worse in every way.

With all of that said, I will be one of the few people who will be giving ReCore a second chance. I just hope that it plays well enough to where I don't end up quitting again.
 

Keinning

Member
Those games have been greenlit and developed years before now.

And? If it wasnt of their interest they could just have cancelled them. Doesn't microsoft cancel everything?
What are the new ips starting development this year which show microsoft only cares about GaaS anyway if you're discrediting the games still to come out? Ori 2 was a recent greenlighted game and guess what, it's SP as well.

Their commitment to their own IPs stay the same, the investment on new ips dropped. Someone already posted a better resume than me a few posts earlier. This idea which microsoft only wants GaaS games now is baseless.
 
And? If it wasnt of their interest they could just have cancelled them. Doesn't microsoft cancel everything?
What are the new ips starting development this year which show microsoft only cares about GaaS anyway if you're discrediting the games still to come out? Ori 2 was a recent greenlighted game and guess what, it's SP as well.

Their commitment to their own IPs stay the same, the investment on new ips dropped. Someone already posted a better resume than me a few posts earlier. This idea which microsoft only wants GaaS games now is baseless.
I wasn't getting into any of that. I was just saying those games happened way before now so they aren't really good evidence to counter what he was saying. We'll see what MS does with their output going forward.
 

Dremorak

Banned
I have an awesome PC, two Xbox Ones (an original and an S) and will preorder a One X as soon as they are available. I don't play online. I don't own a PS4 or Switch.

So there must be more than 'zero reason to buy one', right?

Play Anywhere is a great, consumer friendly innovation by the way, and it's a real shame people use it as a negative constantly against them. That's fucked up.

This boggles my mind. What do you actually gain from owning an xbox one? You can play all the same games and you arent invested in thier online ecosystem.

I agree that play anywhere is great, but it was the final nail in the coffin for me and most others I know who have decent PCs
 

Mediking

Member
One of the problems with Microsoft exclusives is that they either cancel the game or half ass it. ReCore is a perfect example as it appears we're only weeks away from an announcement and release of the Definitive Edition. To me, this is a joke. It was said that the game had 2-2 1/2 years of development time yet released with bugs/glitches, horrible loading times and missing one or two characters despite being on the cover of the game. Instead of rushing this game out, you would think that Microsoft/Spencer would just delay the game a year and release a far better playing and running version while at the same time, avoiding the "definitive edition", adding 4K/HDR elements, adding the missing characters, missions, etc. and adding an exclusive to a weak year.

With FH3 and GOW4 last fall, ReCore wasn't needed at all and should have been delayed a year. Granted, this isn't just Microsoft that does this but they have less exclusives than the competition and less games than third party publishers so rushing out a game simply makes no sense to me when they could easily delay it, make it better and give it a far better chance at success while at the same time, adding another exclusive to a weak year.

As for the Switch exclusives comparison, the first year for Switch is still far better and more impressive than what Xbox One had in it's first year and I have no interest in Switch, Zelda and Mario but that console still has the far better first year lineup. Comparing the first year of Switch to the fourth year of Xbox One is even worse for Microsoft and Xbox One because you would think that the fourth year would be even better than the first year but it's not and arguably, even worse. As the years pass, the exclusive software is supposed to get better in every way, not worse in every way.

With all of that said, I will be one of the few people who will be giving ReCore a second chance. I just hope that it plays well enough to where I don't end up quitting again.

Wrap it up. We're done.

They also need to bring back Fable as a good single player RPG.
 

Humdinger

Member
They got four exclusives (SoD 2, cuphead, crackdown) coming out soon and only one of them is focused on multiplayer/GaaS (sea of thieves)

it's alright to not be interested in the games for what they are, but don't paint them in this narrative which is untrue.

I'll voice my opinion as I please, thanks. The question was about what will shift MS. My opinion is that a shift is already underway. That is the direction I see them headed.

We'll know better as the years progress. Looking just at the next six months isn't going to tell you anything -- that's just a product of games that've been in the pipeline for years.

Btw, "GaaS" is a flexible term that can include all sorts of efforts to monetize a game over the long haul, not just SoT-type MP-only games. Halo and Gears can (I'd expect will or already have) become very GaaSy. Crackdown may as well. I don't know enough about SoD to say.
 
D

Deleted member 471617

Unconfirmed Member
Wrap it up. We're done.

They also need to bring back Fable as a good single player RPG.

I'm still pissed that Microsoft cancelled/didn't approve (forget which) that dark mature themed Fable game a few years ago. Would have easily looked forward to that game.

They got four exclusives (SoD 2, cuphead, crackdown) coming out soon and only one of them is focused on multiplayer/GaaS (sea of thieves)

it's alright to not be interested in the games for what they are, but don't paint them in this narrative which is untrue.

While it's said to be playable solo off-line ala the original State of Decay 2 is heavily geared towards online co-op/multi-player aspects and I wouldn't be surprised if the game somehow squeezes in micro-transactions. I'm just hoping that I can play and enjoy the game solo off-line like I did with the original. If not, it will be scratched off the list.

Cuphead can be played solo but is meant to be played as a two player co-op game. Granted, this isn't GAAS but it just seems like with every released game, Microsoft gets further and further away from single player linear/open world games.

Crackdown 3 while not officially being GAAS can easily become one as it's heavily focused around online multi-player which will most likely include micro-transactions connected to it and while it can be played solo off-line, there's just one huge major problem - all the awesome destruction is online ONLY which for someone like me who doesn't play online at all has one less exclusive game on the purchasing list for the year.

I would love for Microsoft to copy/follow Sony's direction but I KNOW that's not going to happen so I can either A) accept what they are and play the few exclusives that do appeal to me or B) move on from them completely.

As a gamer, I prefer A simply because while I won't get nearly as many exclusives on Xbox One that I want to play compared to PS4, I currently average 1.5 a year and barring delays, will average 2 a year going into 2019.

Granted, that's not great considering the amount of games I play and complete but when I add in PS4 exclusives and multi-platform games, if anything, I already have too many games to play so while I would easily love Microsoft's versions of an Horizon, Uncharted, God of War, etc., I know that im most likely not getting them so instead of moving on from Xbox One, I prefer to just play the exclusives that do appeal to me.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
If they can get traction with games as a service then they may feel they get enough people attracted to Xbox from a smaller number of those types of games, vs investing in more single player or new IP.

Although I'm not sure how successful they've been so far. They tried to heavily push monetisation of forza 5 at XB1 launch and that backfired quickly. Do we have any figures that show their current games doing better in that respect?
 

Keinning

Member
I'm still pissed that Microsoft cancelled/didn't approve (forget which) that dark mature themed Fable game a few years ago. Would have easily looked forward to that game.



While it's said to be playable solo off-line ala the original State of Decay 2 is heavily geared towards online co-op/multi-player aspects and I wouldn't be surprised if the game somehow squeezes in micro-transactions. I'm just hoping that I can play and enjoy the game solo off-line like I did with the original. If not, it will be scratched off the list.

Cuphead can be played solo but is meant to be played as a two player co-op game. Granted, this isn't GAAS but it just seems like with every released game, Microsoft gets further and further away from single player linear/open world games.

Crackdown 3 while not officially being GAAS can easily become one as it's heavily focused around online multi-player which will most likely include micro-transactions connected to it and while it can be played solo off-line, there's just one huge major problem - all the awesome destruction is online ONLY which for someone like me who doesn't play online at all has one less exclusive game on the purchasing list for the year.

I mean, Uncharted and Last of Us MP had MTs as well. This is, sadly, a global trend by now. The games are still being marketed and focused on their SP experiences (we havent even seen CD3 MP footage yet). I'm not any more worried about MS going the GaaS mainly way as i am for Sony, speaking strictly for first party games.
 

Drek

Member
It's not as simple as that. The gaming side of the business does more for MS than the revenue the games generate.

Mindshare amongst the young, via Xbox, is worth a lot more to other areas of their business.

It's not winding down. Not under Nadella, at least.

Mindshare is an intangible value and Microsoft as a company is finding less and less of it's most profitable services tied to the general public's perception of them. Mindshare isn't going to matter for cloud computing services, corporate productivity software, etc.. Also, you don't build good mindshare getting steamrolled by Sony. They need to turn perception around if they want to receive those mindshare benefits and that's going to cost money.

I don't think their exit from video games is imminent, and it's also something they could reverse course on with a mindset shift. That doesn't change the fact that MS has consistently avoided putting real skin in the game with this industry like both Sony and MS have via meaningful first party studio development. They did early on but by mid-last generation had abandoned it.

Which is a shame as MS has some really great IPs and has funded some great titles in the past. But as it stands now all we ever hear from them is that they're committed but we'll need to wait a few years to see the results. That time still hasn't come.

Personally I blame Kinect. The early success of Kinect on the 360 was the real turning point where they basically switched from making a broader base of first party titles to being Halo, Forza, and Kinect games. They've since bought the Gears IP so now it's Halo, Forza, Gears, but even Fable fell under Kinect's steamroller.

Maybe they've really snapped out of it and we'll see meaningful in-house game development come from them in the near future, but until they show the games I'm dubious.
 
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Deleted member 471617

Unconfirmed Member
I mean, Uncharted and Last of Us MP had MTs as well. This is, sadly, a global trend by now. The games are still being marketed and focused on their SP experiences (we havent even seen CD3 MP footage yet). I'm not any more worried about MS going the GaaS mainly way as i am for Sony, speaking strictly for first party games.

True but Uncharted and TLOU main focus IS the single player story campaign, not online. Yeah, I know that micro-transactions are a trend sadly but thankfully, they can be ignored.

True in regards to CD3 but the main selling point of the game is the destruction and it doesn't exist off-line which is a shame and pretty much killed my interest in the game. I was looking forward to CD3 being the showcase for Scorpio at E3 but it turned out to be FM7 instead. Just very disappointing for me and not what I was expecting at all.

First party wise, im not worried at all when it comes to Sony. While Uncharted TLL has U4's multi-player in it updated, the main focal point has been the single player story campaign. Knack 2 has co-op but can also be played solo and I look at this as the 3D third person equivalent of Cuphead. It's the future games though that im hyped and pumped for. GOW, Days Gone and Horizon's DLC are all single player only with no online aspects whatsoever. For someone like me, this is literally perfect.

With Microsoft, it seems like every one of their exclusives must have an online component in it. Microsoft could easily develop single player story driven games but they simply choose not to and instead, focus on the online aspects which for me is disappointing sometimes.
 

nekkid

It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
Mindshare is an intangible value and Microsoft as a company is finding less and less of it's most profitable services tied to the general public's perception of them. Mindshare isn't going to matter for cloud computing services, corporate productivity software, etc.. Also, you don't build good mindshare getting steamrolled by Sony. They need to turn perception around if they want to receive those mindshare benefits and that's going to cost money.

I strongly disagree.

More people play games. People who currently, or will grow up to be business decision-makers, will look to what they know.

Gaming isn't the taboo word it used to be in industry. Businesses are open to exploring how tech that supports gaming can also help them, whether that's Kinect, Unreal, Unity, Azure...

And for MS, the mindshare they want is people knowing them for having services and software that are fast and stable. Not whether Sony sells more plastic boxes.
 
I have an awesome PC, two Xbox Ones (an original and an S) and will preorder a One X as soon as they are available. I don't play online. I don't own a PS4 or Switch.

So there must be more than 'zero reason to buy one', right?

Play Anywhere is a great, consumer friendly innovation by the way, and it's a real shame people use it as a negative constantly against them. That's fucked up.
Liar stop lying. Surely if you have a PC you won't ever need or already have an Xbox because that's what most Xbox detractors say. Everyone wants to game on PC, no one wants an Xbox when PC's are available, duh.
 
Liar stop lying. Surely if you have a PC you won't ever need or already have an Xbox because that's what most Xbox detractors say. Everyone wants to game on PC, no one wants an Xbox when PC's are available, duh.

Perfect example of spin. I purchased an Xbox one for myself and my aunt. Later on got an Xbox One S and gave my original to my sister. If Play anywhere was announced at launch, I still would have gotten an Xbox for my aunt, but I wouldn't have gotten one for myself. It is a fantastic Entertainment hub, but for a gamer that owns multiple consoles and 2 gaming rigs, I wouldn't have bothered. But that is not what happened hence me purchasing multiple Xbox's before the play anywhere talk.

But if you chose to pretend that this is a console war thing go right on ahead. I am not opposed to buying any console, but because of my position, I rely on exclusives to sway my habits because MP titles can be played on the numerous consoles I purchase.

I really do hope for more exclusives to be announced by MS. As it stands, I am not going to purchase Xbox One X, unless given a good reason.
 

Ricky_R

Member
I mean, Uncharted and Last of Us MP had MTs as well. This is, sadly, a global trend by now. The games are still being marketed and focused on their SP experiences (we havent even seen CD3 MP footage yet). I'm not any more worried about MS going the GaaS mainly way as i am for Sony, speaking strictly for first party games.

I mean, there's no official confirmation that MS will focus more on GAAS or the multiplayer aspect of games, and less on narrative driven single player campaigns, but Phil basically implied that's where they're headed.

It wouldn't be a bad thing at all and it would probably be a great idea for them if that were the case. Online focused games seem to be very profitable if done right and MS seems to be struggling with story driven single player games.
 
Yes I should have been more specific , they can't keep depending on the 3 same franchises. They need to build their console exclusive portfolio

How long is this going to be said ? Feels like since the later 360 years people say this and not much changes. Not having a go, I share the same view. You can count the Coalition out for a while longer, Aaron Greenberg recently said they are working on Gears 5.

Imho they shouldn't have to keep being asked about this, don't they game at the Xbox division? If other first parties took their attitude we wouldn't have half the new IP and franchises we have had over the years.
 
But if you chose to pretend that this is a console war thing go right on ahead. I am not opposed to buying any console, but because of my position, I rely on exclusives to sway my habits because MP titles can be played on the numerous consoles I purchase.
Anyone who says there is literally no reason to own an Xbox are either perpetuating the console wars or needs better language to describe why THEY personally don't need an Xbox. And at that point, why even bother posting in Xbox threads with that negativity?

Nothing new is learned and nothing positive is gained from those posts.
 

leeh

Member
True but Uncharted and TLOU main focus IS the single player story campaign, not online. Yeah, I know that micro-transactions are a trend sadly but thankfully, they can be ignored.
That's funny, cause they're certainly weren't ignored on here regarding MS titles, even though they're cosmetic and not P2W.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
Anyone who says there is literally no reason to own an Xbox are either perpetuating the console wars or needs better language to describe why THEY personally don't need an Xbox. And at that point, why even bother posting in Xbox threads with that negativity?

Nothing new is learned and nothing positive is gained from those posts.

It's not a console war and it's not negativity. It's an honest observation.

If one piece of hardware's library is now shared with another, then there's no point in buying both. One becomes redundant. This would pertain to anything.
 

Maybe Nadella said that it was profitable, but he didn't in those links that you provided.

The headline of the first article you posted says that it's profitable, but nowhere in the article does it say that Nadella said that it's profitable. It does link to another article that talks about what Nadella said. According to that article, Nadella said some good things about Xbox (increasing revenue per user, though revenue in total is down YoY) and so did Phil (gaming helps MS develop technologies that are helpful in other areas) but the article didn't mention either of them saying anything about profitability.

The first article you linked also mistakenly states that XBLG has tens of millions more of subscribers than PS+ does, which is false and should make you suspicious about the accuracy of the reporting therein

The first article you linked DOES say that Microsoft's Chief Financial Officer, Amy Hood, said that Xbox is profitable, and links to your second link at dualshockers. This article does mention both in the headline and the body of the text that Xbox is profitable and growing in profitability, but didn't show a direct quote by her.

So, curious, I went to the transcript of the event to see what Amy Hood actually said. This seems to be what dualshockers are referring to:

And some people know, this is already a $110 billion market. Console games and the services that relate to them are growing really double digits. So when you think about us, we've got a multibillion dollar business that's profitable and growing profitably. And the foundation that lays to add on the new business models, whether, as Phil mentioned, ads, subscriptions, selling gaming in that direction, whether it's the ability to think about RPU editions through low value watchers, whether it's the video models that we have through assets like Beam, I think it really opens up the possibilities of that market far beyond the $100 billion that we're already able to compete very effectively in.

Notice that the words "profitable and growing profitably" that dualshockers and windows central attribute to being about Xbox actually are about the gaming business in general, and not Xbox, specifically.

So your statement that Nadella said Xbox is profitable is not actually supported by your links. First, any talk about profitability (according to your links) was not by Satella, but actually by Amy Hood. Second, when you go to the source, it seems that in the statement which these articles refer to, she was referring to the gaming industry in general, and not to Xbox (though the wording is slightly ambigious, which I imagine is intentional)

So, you either posted links to stories in which you had only read the headline, without employing any kind of source criticism (which is how fake news spread) or you are deliberately trying to mislead.

In either case, you need to do better
 

Purest 78

Member
Anyone who says there is literally no reason to own an Xbox are either perpetuating the console wars or needs better language to describe why THEY personally don't need an Xbox. And at that point, why even bother posting in Xbox threads with that negativity?

Nothing new is learned and nothing positive is gained from those posts.

If someone owns a PC I can't think of a reason to own X1. Then again I'm older Rarely play with real life friends anymore. I'd feel the same if all Sony games went to PC. I would build a PC and my Ps4 Would be out of here.
 

Humdinger

Member
Maybe Nadella said that it was profitable, but he didn't in those links that you provided.

The headline of the first article you posted says that it's profitable, but nowhere in the article does it say that Nadella said that it's profitable. It does link to another article that talks about what Nadella said. According to that article, Nadella said some good things about Xbox (increasing revenue per user, though revenue in total is down YoY) and so did Phil (gaming helps MS develop technologies that are helpful in other areas) but the article didn't mention either of them saying anything about profitability.

The first article you linked also mistakenly states that XBLG has tens of millions more of subscribers than PS+ does, which is false and should make you suspicious about the accuracy of the reporting therein

The first article you linked DOES say that Microsoft's Chief Financial Officer, Amy Hood, said that Xbox is profitable, and links to your second link at dualshockers. This article does mention both in the headline and the body of the text that Xbox is profitable and growing in profitability, but didn't show a direct quote by her.

So, curious, I went to the transcript of the event to see what Amy Hood actually said. This seems to be what dualshockers are referring to:



Notice that the words "profitable and growing profitably" that dualshockers and windows central attribute to being about Xbox actually are about the gaming business in general, and not Xbox, specifically.

So your statement that Nadella said Xbox is profitable is not actually supported by your links. First, any talk about profitability (according to your links) was not by Satella, but actually by Amy Hood. Second, when you go to the source, it seems that in the statement which these articles refer to, she was referring to the gaming industry in general, and not to Xbox (though the wording is slightly ambigious, which I imagine is intentional)

So, you either posted links to stories in which you had only read the headline, without employing any kind of source criticism (which is how fake news spread) or you are deliberately trying to mislead.

In either case, you need to do better

Good job, thank you for following up and investigating this. Appreciate the footwork.

I agree that Amy Hood's statement is ambiguous, and the fact that it is embedded in articles that seemed to have mis-stated the facts in several ways does tend to discredit the whole thing.

However, if pressed, I'd say the Amy Hood does seem to refer to Xbox, or at least to MS's gaming division as a whole, because she does use the words "us" and "we" ("if you think about us, we've got a multibillion dollar business that is profitable..."). The sentence before that is referring to the whole industry, but then she seems to narrow it to "us." However, I agree, it's not crystal clear.

I'm sure the adamant "Xbox isn't profitable" folks would attach other qualifiers, like the fact that Minecraft revenue from non-Xbox platforms and Windows game money is also included here, not just Xbox money. I've also heard that R&D expenses, such as that those required to build the X1X, gets put on a general R&D budget line that falls outside of the gaming division, so that R&D costs are not a part of the gaming profitability equation here (although CEOs would be aware of them, of course). Not sure if that's true or not.

For the more sensitive: I'm not arguing the gaming division isn't profitable. I actually think it is. I'm just curious about the evidence that's out there.
 
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