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[captive]

As someone who was originally in favor of the free upgrade and initially supported the way they were pushing it out, it's downright amazing how much of a nightmare it's turned into. For my personal use computers it's absolutely fine, but for everything else... eesh.



For anyone in an AD environment it's an easy policy push to disable it... assuming they ponied up for up to date servers (I.E. despite still being in long term support, Server 2008 and Server 2012 didn't receive the update which added the GPO that disables Windows 10 - still possible to push something out preventing it but not as easy). But for smaller businesses there's no centralized way to disable it, and that's pretty garbage.

A bunch of my clients use absolutely archaic apps that couldn't run on Win 8, let alone 10 (as we've recently been discovering with the forced updates some of them are getting).

its not that hard to push out new ADM templates for GPO.

As for "Small businesses" they're usually shit out of luck regardless because they're either too cheap to hire IT staff or too small to.

Here's a real question for you:

Do you actually believe that W10 is the reason the driver doesn't work, or is it AT ALL possible that the hardware is faulty?

If a laptop is being sold at retail with W10 installed, all of those drivers are certified.

or a poorly written driver, certified or not. Poor drivers have ALWAYS been microsoft's fault even when its someone elses hardware.

 

[Famassu]

One question, how does upgrading to W10 handle existing licences? Say I have Word, does it retain the licence or do I have to start looking for the key/code for my licence (if it's anywhere to be found...)? Or worse yet buy a new one.

 

[bishoptl]

You also don’t care about all of these (Compared to 7)?

1) Better recovery. Bush button reset and restore. Separate recovery partition no longer required.
2) Better security. Windows Hello, support for new security and biometric standards. Faster patching of issues due to the new servicing model.
3) UWP applications.
4) Better search. Cortana, items that are found sorted by category.
5) Better multi monitor support. Ability to have taskbar on both monitors, have programs show on active monitor only, etc.
6) Virtual desktops.
7) True touch screen support and touch mode.
8) Better app switching, task view.
9) Out of box full AV and malware scanning. No need to for 3rd part AV.
10) Action center.
11) Storage spaces (Virtual RAID).
12) Better file explorer navigation, for example opening up the folder you are currently in within CMD prompt or PowerShell.
13) Integrated file backup (File history) and soon to be image backup to OneDrive.
14) Better SSD performance and generally faster boot times due to better UEFI firmware support on newer hardware.
15) Support for new “tablet” like sleep. Instantly wakes up.
16) Support for using a Microsoft account for syncing settings, themes and files across multiple devices.
17) Better memory management using memory compression.
18) Smaller footprint. New compressed installation (Formally known as Wimboot in 8) takes up less space.
19) Quick admin menu (Right click on the start button).
20) Better, more reliable and informative task manager.
21) More efficient Windows Update mechanism. For example, the ability to schedule “active hours” so Windows 10 doesn’t automatically update while you are active on your system.

These are just what I know from the top of my head and I am sure there are many more, but I switch back and forth between Win 7 and 10 daily and I don’t understand how people can prefer to stick with Win 7. Thurrot discussed this recently when he did a fresh install of Win 7, his article sums up exactly how I feel.

https://www.thurrott.com/windows/67319/understanding-windows-7-age-windows-10

Nobody cares about your excuses.

If people want to upgrade, they'll upgrade.

If you have to trick people into upgrading, that's a reflection on you.

 

[BryanGT]

One question, how does upgrading to W10 handle existing licences? Say I have Word, does it retain the licence or do I have to start looking for the key/code for my licence (if it's anywhere to be found...)? Or worse yet buy a new one.

It'll migrate the license, it should not prompt you.

 

[Iorv3th]

One question, how does upgrading to W10 handle existing licences? Say I have Word, does it retain the licence or do I have to start looking for the key/code for my licence (if it's anywhere to be found...)? Or worse yet buy a new one.

Keeps the same license, it's in in place upgrade so all your apps and everything carry over. There might be a few that don't but Office will. I have Office 2007 that carried over on mine.

 

[Famassu]

Ok, thanks. Glad that isn't a problem.

 

[RunLikeH3LL]

Nobody cares about your excuses.

If people want to upgrade, they'll upgrade.

If you have to trick people into upgrading, that's a reflection on you.

So if they don’t want to upgrade, they can still cancel it.

The upgrade notification is pushy, sure, but it’s not sinister like people are making it out to be.

These same individuals are the ones that don’t uncheck optional offers when installing a program, they just click next next next ok.

 

[Troubled Bat]

I wouldn't say they're tricking anybody. It clearly says that it upgrades automatically, and that it's scheduled to upgrade.

Then it has "click here" to cancel it from upgrading on your PC.

*shrugs*

 

[Sparkedglory]

You shouldn't have to trick people to upgrade, period. It doesn't matter at all it 10 is better or what. If they don't want to then they don't want to. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that.

 

[Mask]

Already had my settings ticked to avoid the automatic install, but I went ahead and tried it out to see how it was. Not too bad on my end tbh, no real difference so far, but my situation is wholly mine, other people don't want the update and Microsoft tricking them into it is pretty shitty.

 

[Shredderi]

So why do they want to push this so much? Tinfoil worthy concerns regarding the OS?

 

[hydrophilic attack]

So if they don’t want to upgrade, they can still cancel it.

The upgrade notification is pushy, sure, but it’s not sinister like people are making it out to be.

These same individuals are the ones that don’t uncheck optional offers when installing a program, they just click next next next ok.

And what about if you're away from the computer for a week, so you miss the chance to cancel it, and it goes ahead and auto updates when you're away?

 

[collige]

So if they don’t want to upgrade, they can still cancel it.

The upgrade notification is pushy, sure, but it’s not sinister like people are making it out to be.

These same individuals are the ones that don’t uncheck optional offers when installing a program, they just click next next next ok.

The difference here is that MS takes the liberty to download the upgrade, schedule an installation date, and then reboot the users computer, all without the user initiating anything. It's an unprecedented move for a major OS release, which is why people don't expect the upgrade to still go off when they close the window.

 

[RunLikeH3LL]

And what about if you're away from the computer for a week, so you miss the chance to cancel it, and it goes ahead and auto updates when you're away?

That is a possibility, but you can just roll back within 30 days without having to do a fresh install. So you aren’t stuck with Win 10 if you didn’t want it.

 

[RedSparrows]

Is a good OS for me, but fucking hell MS. You really do act like complete pricks at times.

 

[krae_man]

I noticed the popup box was different and caught this.

Happy with 7.

I'd be pissed if I didn't catch this and the update happened.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

That is a possibility, but you can just roll back within 30 days without having to do a fresh install. So you aren’t stuck with Win 10 if you didn’t want it.

Some people have reported that something broke during this upgrade -> roll back process. When it comes to Windows machio,there is always a roughly 5 % chance that stuff like this will fuck things up. That's not a risk I'd want my system to take without my express permission.

 

[RunLikeH3LL]

Some people have reported that something broke during this upgrade -> roll back process. When it comes to Windows machio,there is always a roughly 5 % chance that stuff like this will fuck things up. That's not a risk I'd want my system to take without my express permission.

Sure, there is always a possibility that something can go wrong, even apps on your phone or tablet that automatically update can cause issues, this isn’t something specific to Windows.

The point is that the mechanism is there, and if you had a successful upgrade, the chance of the downgrade failing is slim.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Sure, there is always a possibility that something can go wrong, even apps on your phone or tablet that automatically update can cause issues, this isn’t something specific to Windows.

The point is that the mechanism is there, and if you had a successful upgrade, the chance of the downgrade failing are slim.

Most offices, students and businesses are not reliant on their smartphone or tablet apps for their day-to-day work

 

[shaowebb]

Um, if I go to windows 10 I have compatibility issues with shit I'm using to develop a game. Shit I've spent 2.5 years on. This shit is foul and I am thoroughly disgusted by it.

 

[RunLikeH3LL]

Most offices, students and businesses are not reliant on their smartphone or tablet apps for their day-to-day work

Most businesses and schools that use Windows use enterprise or education builds that aren’t affected by this, in addition updates would be managed by their IT department.

 

[Somnid]

Most offices, students and businesses are not reliant on their smartphone or tablet apps for their day-to-day work

But most are dependent on webapps which update even more frequently.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Most businesses and schools that use Windows use enterprise or education builds that aren’t affected by this, in addition updates would be managed by their IT department.

Not small businesses.

Also, I work at a large university. It's not handled centrally here.

 

[jmizzal]

It happened to me at work, I clicked the red X, and a few hours later while I was working my computer just started updating in the middle of me working smh

 

[hydrophilic attack]

But most are dependent on webapps which update even more frequently.

Um, a webapp breaking with an update is not nearly as bad as your entire OS breaking. Wtf.

At least you have a fitting tag.

 

[RunLikeH3LL]

Not small businesses.

Also, I work at a large university. It's not handled centrally here.

Small businesses can still implement the same polices via MMC if they are using Win 10 Pro, it is more time consuming but the result is the same.

That is a major issue that the university needs to address.

 

[Jacksinthe]

That is a possibility, but you can just roll back within 30 days without having to do a fresh install. So you aren’t stuck with Win 10 if you didn’t want it.

Rollbacks aren't foolproof. This scenario happened to a friend of mine and he had to fuss about with a zillion settings when he reverted.

W10 is fine. So is using older OSs. Like I said earlier, plenty of us on production machines don't want to do this mid-development for obvious reasons.

I chose to do it after a quick test of tools on my spare machine but if I didn't want to update at all, it shouldn't be so difficult.

No thanks should mean no thanks, not "ok I'll just bug you again tomorrow and then when you least expect it, fuck you over when you've got your back turned"

This isn't rocket science. There's no excuse.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Small businesses can still implement the same polices via MMC if they are using Win 10 Pro, it is more time consuming but the result is the same.

That is a major issue that the university needs to address.

Small businesses may not afford to employ an IT specialist to do that kind of stuff

And it's not a major issue. I work at an engineering university. People have PCs interfacing with various lab equipment, using special software that may or may not be compatible with newer versions of Windows. Having stuff like that be handled centrally would be way too inflexible in a research environment.

 

[Berordn]

its not that hard to push out new ADM templates for GPO.

As for "Small businesses" they're usually shit out of luck regardless because they're either too cheap to hire IT staff or too small to.

No, it's not. But it's a little funny to me that the only protection Microsoft gives to that audience is in a prebuilt ADM template that only gets deployed to environments that've already been paying for upgrades, when the ones who haven't or are unable to are probably in the most trouble with random OS updates breaking compatibility.

Small businesses will usually pay for MSPs who can make these changes but can only provide suggestions for upgrades, and don't always have the ability to be around and make the administrative changes in MMC.

 

[bishoptl]

So if they don’t want to upgrade, they can still cancel it.

The upgrade notification is pushy, sure, but it’s not sinister like people are making it out to be.

These same individuals are the ones that don’t uncheck optional offers when installing a program, they just click next next next ok.

No.

People are canceling by clicking the red X in the corner - the same manner in which Explorer has trained for years - and it's only now that the functionality is being changed.

That's shady.

 

[Dyson Industries]

No.

People are canceling by clicking the red X in the corner - the same manner in which Explorer has trained for years - and it's only now that the functionality is being changed.

That's shady.

That's Microsoft.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

No.

People are canceling by clicking the red X in the corner - the same manner in which Explorer has trained for years - and it's only now that the functionality is being changed.

That's shady.

Especially when you consider the fact that earlier upgrade prompts looked like this:

Here you HAD to click the red X, and there was nowhere in the dialog box to click to cancel. And now you get one that works completely the other way around.

Considering the fact that you get this above dialog EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DAY, one could be forgiven for not reading it through that thoroughly every single time.

It's shady as fuck. I don't see why anyone would want to defend it unless they're getting paid for it.

 

[IrishNinja]

Yeah, it's shady but I dunno why you wouldn't want to upgrade to 10 though. It is better in so many ways and also fast.

dont want to, have 7 running smoothly & no desire/good reason to - i take care of my PC, and they'll be supporting 7 a bit longer anyway

Um, if I go to windows 10 I have compatibility issues with shit I'm using to develop a game. Shit I've spent 2.5 years on. This shit is foul and I am thoroughly disgusted by it.

yeah, i use a lot of old programs for various tasks as well & don't feel like finding out which wont work either

 

[captive]

No, it's not. But it's a little funny to me that the only protection Microsoft gives to that audience is in a prebuilt ADM template that only gets deployed to environments that've already been paying for upgrades, when the ones who haven't or are unable to are probably in the most trouble with random OS updates breaking compatibility.

Its not the only protection, you're also acting like companies have to pay just to get it. Active Directory GPO is just a thing, you can add templates to it, or you can extend teh schema which gets you the templates. Its not a big deal.

No.

People are canceling by clicking the red X in the corner - the same manner in which Explorer has trained for years - and it's only now that the functionality is being changed.

That's shady.

i suppose if you next next next through software install that installs bloat ware thats the vendors fault you didnt read?



Also im curious how peoples machines are getting updated fully to windows 10? My mom's Surface literally, just today, tried to update to windows 10 and she called me i told her to "click next" "decline the legal agreement" and it made her decline the free upgrade and restarted her machine back to windows 8.1, no problem. Im curious how others machines are going through teh full process without someone accepting the legal agreement?

 

[golduck342]

Here's a real question for you:

Do you actually believe that W10 is the reason the driver doesn't work, or is it AT ALL possible that the hardware is faulty?

If a laptop is being sold at retail with W10 installed, all of those drivers are certified.

Would a hardware problem show this on the Device Manager?
Both the tablet and laptop I bought separately have a hardware problem?
The tablet I bought directly from microsoft.com came with this issue, I just never really tried the SD card until recently.
The Laptop had the issue day 1. Wifi would work, but then it dropped and the access points wouldn't be listed anymore. Had to restart to get it working again every time. Couldn't be assed to return it since I needed the laptop.
Sure maybe the drivers are certified, but are they tested to be stable and work under all circumstances?

Yes I believe the drivers can be faulty. We live in a world where they sell us incomplete products and expect us to update them. I, as a power user, am having problems with them, I can't imagine a casual user. This is the exact kind of thing that was happening in Vista, so why would I expect any better?

 

[BasicMath]

Especially when you consider the fact that earlier upgrade prompts looked like this:

Here you HAD to click the red X, and there was nowhere in the dialog box to click to cancel. And now you get one that works completely the other way around.

Considering the fact that you get this above dialog EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DAY, one could be forgiven for not reading it through that thoroughly every single time.

It's shady as fuck. I don't see why anyone would want to defend it unless they're getting paid for it.

I honestly think that it's a borderline unethical practice. It's disgusting for sure.
Microsoft is desperate for more products users.

 

[Jason Frost]

What is the real limit date to intall the free update?

Is it July 31, 2016?

 

[Berordn]

What is the real limit date to intall the free update?

Is it July 31, 2016?

The last word on it was that it would be ramping down slowly, so people are probably still going to be eligible for no action required upgrades for a while after that.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Let's be honest. Stop acting like microsoft isn't trying to mislead people here.

They could have added in a big button that said 'No thanks, I don't want to update'. They could have just made the X mean what it meant for over a decade now concerning pop-ups and that is 'not now, go the fuck away' and not interpret it as a go-ahead for a complete OS upgrade without making sure the user is fine with it. They decided against that.

Microsoft aren't idiots. They know full well that people get suckered into installing Yahoo! toolbars and MSN search widgets until the end of time because people fucking hate pop-ups and have been conditioned for years to just click these annoyances away.

And now all of a sudden they fashion their popup window in such a way that if you do the thing we're used to, you now all of a sudden agree to their terms and an update is happening. If that isn't fucking sleazy then I don't know what is. That's adware 101.

Thing is, people expect that shit from cheap downloadable freeware. They don't expect their main OS to be handling critical updates in such a manner. That's the problem here.

 

[Somnid]

Um, a webapp breaking with an update is not nearly as bad as your entire OS breaking. Wtf.

At least you have a fitting tag.

Are we moving the posts from software compatibility to full device bricking?

 

[Mohasus]

You also don’t care about all of these (Compared to 7)?

These are just what I know from the top of my head and I am sure there are many more, but I switch back and forth between Win 7 and 10 daily and I don’t understand how people can prefer to stick with Win 7. Thurrot discussed this recently when he did a fresh install of Win 7, his article sums up exactly how I feel.

https://www.thurrott.com/windows/67319/understanding-windows-7-age-windows-10

Considering pretty much everything there (except virtual desktops and cortana) was also in windows 8.1, I'd say people don't care enough about them.

 

[MogCakes]

i suppose if you next next next through software install that installs bloat ware thats the vendors fault you didnt read?

It's almost like you refuse to see the move for what it is, an attempt to trick people and install the OS under their nose.

 

[RunLikeH3LL]

Considering pretty much everything there (except virtual desktops) was also in windows 8.1, I'd say people don't care enough about them.

The comparison was to Win 7, not Win 8.1. The list would indeed be smaller when compared to 8.1.

 

[mckmas8808]

Pretty lame way to get people to upgrade, but the OS really is solid.

If it was that solid, why are they forcing people to be upgraded to it?

 

[QuantumZebra]

As someone running 7 on a MacBook Air (won't run 10) and 10 on every one of my other PCs...

Windows 10 is >>>>>>>>>> 7

I can barely use 7 compared to how much I used Groove/OneDrive/Windows 10 apps

If it was that solid, why are they forcing people to be upgraded to it?

I take it you don't work in IT.

Supporting multiple OS/programs is a nightmare for both Microsoft AND for all businesses that run Windows.

So many of my clients upgraded to 10 and couldn't use their old work apps, or want to, but can't due to incompatibilities or other issues.

 

[RunLikeH3LL]

If it was that solid, why are they forcing people to be upgraded to it?

There were over 200 million upgrades before any of this was implemented.

 

[Mohasus]

The comparison was to Win 7, not Win 8.1. The list would indeed be smaller when compared to 8.1.

I know it was, but if people didn't care about it 3 years ago, why would they now?

 

[Real Hero]

this is why I am vista 4 life

 

[captive]

It's almost like you refuse to see the move for what it is, an attempt to trick people and install the OS under their nose.

its not under their nose at all, by all accounts its a constant, perpetual nag that never goes away unless you do a registry edit. I wouldn't know, i've been on windows10 for almost a year now.

What i do know is that people refuse to upgrade and need to be drug along kicking and screaming.

My company just performed a XP migration for a fortune 50 company, in 20 and fucking 16, they just now got off of XP. Sure our company made bank off of it, but it was still a massive pain in the ass.

Sure its shady, but there are multiple ways to get around it, multiple ways to prevent it and ways to make it go away. But i can't be bothered to care about people just X'ing out of something without reading it.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Are we moving the posts from software compatibility to full device bricking?

In the post that quote chain was starting with I was talking about issues more far-reaching than software compatibility, yes. That should be obvious, considering the fact that I put the risk for an issue at 5 %, rather than 50 %.