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MLB 12: The Show |OT| Elevated levels of testosterone included

DenogginizerOS

BenjaminBirdie's Thomas Jefferson
The strike zone variability is actually fair to me but only if you remove the strike zone HUD. To me, seeing strikes called outside of the HUD just distracted me and made me press more. After removing the HUD, my hitting has improved and I have drawn a few walks. I played a whole season on RTTS with it on and part if a second season.
 
The strike zone variability is actually fair to me but only if you remove the strike zone HUD. To me, seeing strikes called outside of the HUD just distracted me and made me press more. After removing the HUD, my hitting has improved and I have drawn a few walks. I played a whole season on RTTS with it on and part if a second season.
Since 2009 I've played with everything off - No Zones or Guess Pitch (It's the rules of the MLB GAF League) and I've noticed a few interesting things from the vids/player reactions:

- fielders get rid of the ball much quicker now to compensate for some of the canned animations. However, with Fielder Default Arm Strength being overpowered (as usual) that's having an drastic effect on doubles/triples.
- I've noticed everyone lowering Fielder Run Speed to 3 or 4, which is kinda a bump up from last year. That would compensate and you'd see more gappers/balls that go down the line actually reach the wall.

I know Sanjuro likes to joke about me and Sliders but it's a rather complex part of the game for a tweaker like me
Bobhead from OS Sports said:
Changes:

5/1/2011

- Added CPU Manager Hook
- Changed and cleaned up a few descriptions
- Updated Pitch Consistency

In any baseball game I own, one of the first things I do is explore the engine of the game. I have an obsession with how things work, so I generally pay a lot of attention to every slider, and how they individually affect gameplay. Generally, baseball designers (probably sports games in general, but I wouldn't know) are pretty good at giving you useful options to play with, but pretty bad at making sure you understand what they do. Some descriptions are extremely vague, others are flat out wrong, so it becomes extremely difficult to try to properly customize the game to your liking, as you often don't know where to start.

The following is a reference that fully explains each slider and what it does, based on my own experience, my own experiments, and observations. I do not include every slider, because there are a couple that I feel are very self-explanatory, such as say Fielder Speed, but if there is a slider you feel should be added, you are more than welcome to suggest it in this thread or via PM, and I will edit in an explanation. Baserunner sliders I haven't really figured out yet, so the information on them is incomplete, and likely subject to change.

Contact: Affects a batters ability to put the bat on the ball. This option affects foul ball counts. Increasing ONLY this option reduces strikeouts, while increasing fly outs, ground outs, etc... and also slightly increasing your batting average. Increasing ONLY this option will increase extra-base hits and home runs. Increasing ONLY this option will slightly increase foul ball counts. This setting also affects your ability to check swings successfully, and affects bunting to some extent. If too many of your outs are coming from strikeouts, this is the option to change. For the AI, this setting also affects discipline. Your overall contact ability is also affected by Timing and pitch effectiveness, as well as the batter's attributes.

- Timing Hitting: Contact affects how often the PCI will be in the right spot. A high Contact slider means the "dice roll" will be more in your favor, if you will, resulting in a generally higher level of contact.
- Analog Hitting: Same as Timing. Contact also affects your margin of error when taking a stride (increase Contact slider to make the stride timing easier).
- Zone Hitting: Affects your chances of making contact on a pitch outside of the PCI, and slightly affects the contact you make in general. Does NOT have a significant effect on batting averages.

Power: This is pretty simple, affects how far, and how quickly, batted balls travel, nothing more, nothing less. Increasing ONLY this option will increase home runs and sacrifice flies, and to some extent, will give your line drives a little more pop, meaning fewer of them will be randomly caught in the infield. Increasing ONLY this option will greatly increase extra-base hits, and slightly increase overall batting averages. If you are hitting too few, or too many, home runs, this is the option to change. Fielder Reaction is NOT automatically adjusted by this slider; that means increasing this slider generally reduces the amount of time fielders have to track and respond to balls (because they are traveling at a higher speed).

Timing: Affects a batters sensitivity to changes in pitch speed. If you are early or late in your swing, this option affects how much contact you will make on that swing. This works a lot like the Contact slider, just for time instead of location. This slider affects how big the "perfect timing" window is, and affects how much leeway you have on swinging late or early. Increasing ONLY this option will reduce missed swings due to being early on a breaking ball, or late on a fastball, (or the reverse). It will also increase batting average. If the game tells you that you are late/early too much for your liking, OR you are constantly hitting the ball off the end of the bat, OR getting jammed, due to poor timing, (or if this isn't happening enough) this is the option to change. For the AI, this setting also affects ability to recognize pitch speed, and thus, affects the number of missed swings per-game.

On higher difficulties, this slider has a direct affect on batting averages.

Foul Frequency: Affects the ratio of Foul balls to Fair balls. This setting overlaps with the Timing setting, to some extent, because the higher this setting, the better your timing has to be to put the ball in play. This option does NOT affect strikeouts (except when bunting). Increasing ONLY this option will lead to a larger number of foul balls, but does NOT make you magically foul off pitches you weren't going to make contact on. On a swing with poor conctat, this slider is the difference between a foul ball and a pop up or ground out. On a swing that is early or late, this setting makes the difference between a ball down the line and a ball in foul territory. If too many balls are being put into play, and at-bats are too short, even when producing offensively, this is the option to change.

Solid Hits: Affects the definition of “good wood” (lol). This setting affects the ratio of hits to ground outs/fly outs. If you would make contact on a swing regardless, this setting makes the difference between a line drive (or home run) and an easy out. This setting directly affects batting averages. This setting does NOT affect the number of strikeouts, and will not substantially increase home run totals from non-home run hitters, such as Shane Victorino. Increasing ONLY this option will significantly increase batting average and extra-base hit totals. If you are having trouble with your overall offensive production, or are producing too many hits/runs, this is the option to change.

A more in depth explanation: This slider defines the precision required for "superb" contact, versus "solid" contact, versus "okay" contact. With a lower Solid Hits setting, you will get "superb" contact far less frequently, which will substantially reduce your extra base hit totals, and slightly reduce home run totals. When using "timing" or "analog" hitting, the Contact slider also has a large effect on how well you connect with the ball.

Stamina: Self Explanatory. Affects the amount of energy consumed with each pitch. Increasing ONLY this option will increase the number of pitches a pitcher can safely and efficiently throw in a game. If pitchers tire too quickly, or throw too many complete games (do not confuse this with pitch count issues) this is the option to change.

Pitcher Control: Affects a pitcher's overall accuracy, and their ability to paint the corners/edges of the strike zone. Directly affects ball-to-strike ratios, as well as walk-to-out ratios. Directly affects the opposing batter's ability to make contact on a pitch, as well as the level of contact made. Increasing ONLY this option will increase strikeouts and reduce opposing batting averages, walks, and overall pitch counts. If a pitcher is hitting their spots on the black too frequently, or not able to paint the corners enough; or if a pitcher is just dominating hitters too much, regardless of pitch location, this is the option to change.

Pitcher Consistency:
Affects the "success rate" of a pitch, regardless of location, IE: a pitcher's overall effectiveness. DOES affect accuracy, but this slider works very differently from Pitch Control (see below). It affect's a pitcher's confidence, and that confidence's stability (i.e how long it takes to lose your "groove"). This slider affects the frequency of pitches hung, and affects the starting level of confidence a new pitcher has in the later innings of the game.

Increasing ONLY this option will make pitches less hittable overall, reducing opposing batting averages, and increasing strikeouts. Increasing ONLY this option will increase the frequency of no-hitters, shutouts, etc... Increasing ONLY this option will decrease walks and opponent run differentials. It will increase a pitcher's ability to perform in critical situations, thus reducing opposing averages with runners in scoring position. If your pitchers (especially relief pitchers), are not performing at the desired level, this is the option to change. If you aren't seeing enough offensive rallies, or pitchers are just too dominant, this is the option to change.

If you are still hazy on the difference between the two pitcher sliders, consider this: Lowering Pitch Control will turn Tom Glavine into Tom Glavine on a bad day. Pitch Control affects a pitcher's ability in terms of pitch location. A lower Pitch Control will lead to a higher distance offset in pitches that miss their location. This in turn will increase “close” walks, such as ones where a call could have gone either way, or a batter just took some really good pitches that were a bit out of the strike zone. It will slightly increase how hittable your pitches are.

Lowering Pitch Consistency will turn Tom Glavine on a bad day into Oliver Perez. It affects a pitcher's ability in terms of pitch execution. A lower pitch consistency will lead to a higher number of pitches that miss their location. The game description is pretty spot-on, this slider affects wild pitches and all of that stuff, too. If you lower ONLY your only opponent's Pitch Consistency, but you never swing the bat, you will NOT necessarily draw a higher number of walks.

CPU Strike Frequency: Affects CPU Pitcher aggressiveness. Directly affects Ball to Strike ratios. Note the difference between the other two sliders, this one is NOT accuracy related. A decrease of this slider makes a pitcher go from a strike throwing machine, to a pitcher that tries to paint the corners. Please note the word "tries" as this slider will not affect the success rate. Increasing ONLY this option will reduce walks, especially intentional ones. Increasing ONLY this option will drastically reduce overall pitch counts. Increasing ONLY this option will reduce the number of intentional walks thrown by the CPU.

CPU Manager Hook: Affects CPU's "patience" with its pitching staff. Increasing ONLY this option will force CPU pitchers to be pulled sooner during rallies or game changing events. Increasing ONLY this option will make the CPU pull tired pitchers sooner. This slider affects you as a pitcher in Road to the Show.

CPU Pickoffs: Affects the number of attempted pickoffs and pitch-outs by AI-controlled pitchers. Does NOT affect the success rate of a pickoff.

Baserunner Steal Ability: Affects how good of a jump a base stealer gets (reaction time to a pitcher's delivery), as well as susceptibility to pickoffs. This slider works backwards, a 1 point decrease results in baserunners having an increased ability. Increasing ONLY this option will increase the success rate of a pickoff, and decrease the success rate of a steal. Of course, speed and pitch speed are still a factor.
 

MrOogieBoogie

BioShock Infinite is like playing some homeless guy's vivid imagination
Am I the only one who doesn't bother with the sliders? I always leave them at the default setting and never think about them again.
 
Making this post mid-game because I need to regroup.

NYY just batted around against Doug Fister (3-4) who already had an ERA well over 6. Had to pull him; now trail 6-0 in the bottom of the third; Kuroda K's Austin Jackson, 1 out.

*exhale*

The reason I came into post was just to speak of how incredibly tense this is, and how easily this game gets into your head. I was 8-1, 14-4 and 18-8, man. Straight bashin'. Now, boom, I'm 27-24, 9-16 in my last 25. The bats are okay, but I'm getting mashed on. Boston just took 3 of 4 against me and scored 12+ twice, now this to start the subsequent homestand.

So here's my advice to myself, and by proxy my advice to anyone who find themselves in a similar situation: Look, it's 6-0; either lay down, get shutout, strike out 15 times, and lose by 12, or get your fucking head on straight, man-up, and win this shit 7-6 .... or 16-6 for that matter.
 

Sol..

I am Wayne Brady.
Am I the only one who doesn't bother with the sliders? I always leave them at the default setting and never think about them again.

i always adjust sliders when i play pitcher on road to the show. Usually to AI fielders. They are borderline mentally challenged on top of certain uncommon situations where they are simply programmed to handle the situation completely wrong (pretty much anything that requires me to cover first with my pitcher that runs about as fast as an obese 5 year old)
 
Photoon2012-03-20at1523.jpg


okayguy.jpg
 
Impressions from my first MLB 12: Online Game

- I know it's probably the best the game has played OOTB in awhile but man... the Three Factos of Doom are killing me.

  1. There is more of an input lag then there ever has been previously.
  2. Default Pitch Speed slider is ridiculous. In past years I've had it at 4, it may need to be set at 3 this year. I'm playing online, work a 3-0 count and I end up getting gassed on a 90, a 92, and a 91 MPH fastball. The ball literally gets right on top of you like the gun is 6-7 MPH slow.
  3. The Timing on Default has to be raised. I'm getting the feeling no contact is good contact. I play on HoF but I've been playing that since MLB 09. I know when the hitting feels off and it sure feels off to me.

Until we (dislaimer: there is no guarantee there will be a patch) have a patch ready for deployment this is a stopgap solution to improving your batting avg. online.

Go to user settings in the menu and scroll down to "Online Challenge Settings" and Change the Hitting difficulty to Veteran and the Pitching difficulty to Hall of Fame. Do this for both the "Game Room" and "Play Now" options.

We changed the default pitching and hitting difficulty for DD this morning to the above settings and we have already seen the medium batting avg. and ERA 's both go up. However do to the new Play Now Plus we don't force users to play with a shared difficulty we match you up based on preferences.

We know this is not ideal but it should help you hit better online until a more permanent option has been decided upon.

As always Thx for your support and patience while we work through these issues.
 
Finally picked up the Vita version of the game thanks to the Target B2G1 offer and I'm really struggling with this year's edition. I skipped last year's version so the last version I bought and played was 2010. I just can't get the timing down on the metered pitch. It's like the meter moves way faster so I can't time my pitches properly for the release. I hate the new pulse pitching too. I haven't tried the new analog pitching yet though. Is it just me? Did it change in 2011 and because I skipped that I didn't realize it till now? I'm just having a hell of a time placing pitches where I want them.
 
I can't pitch....and I don't get it. I'm not new to the series at all. Something about the pitching is just screwy. I'm not using that pulse pitching stuff. But, it doesn't matter where I aim the pitch, it goes completely somewhere else. MAYBE about 1 in every 6 pitches does the ball go where I aim.

This happens on both the PS3 and Vita. Example: Say I aim a fastball high and inside, I get a ball low and outside and WAY low.

It's infuriating. I will pitch the ball to a great location, and bam....ball.....WAY off.

It's ruining the game for me.....really tempted to take up Gamestop's +50% today and cut my losses. The pitching is way too sporadic.

No trouble with batting, but if you can't succeed on defense, what's the point?

Sorry for the ramble, but any input would be greatly appreciated.
 

friz898

Member
I can't pitch....and I don't get it. I'm not new to the series at all. Something about the pitching is just screwy. I'm not using that pulse pitching stuff. But, it doesn't matter where I aim the pitch, it goes completely somewhere else. MAYBE about 1 in every 6 pitches does the ball go where I aim.

This happens on both the PS3 and Vita. Example: Say I aim a fastball high and inside, I get a ball low and outside and WAY low.

It's infuriating. I will pitch the ball to a great location, and bam....ball.....WAY off.

It's ruining the game for me.....really tempted to take up Gamestop's +50% today and cut my losses. The pitching is way too sporadic.

No trouble with batting, but if you can't succeed on defense, what's the point?

Sorry for the ramble, but any input would be greatly appreciated.


I assume you are doing it right but if not...

1. ...for non-pulse pitching, press your button to select your pitch while using left analog to aim.

1b. For pitches with alot of movement, I aim the ball to land where the arrows point it will land, ignoring the normal aiming white dot.

2. Press X once while meter is rising to select your intensity. Assuming you want max strength, you press it towards the top.

3. Now during this same meter (pitcher's windup), the indicator will quickly come back down to the starting point. Here you are selecting your accuracy by trying to perfectly time pressing the X button on the thin yellow line.

4. So from start to finish you are pressing a button three times. Select location (starts windup), towards top of meter for intensity, and third for accuracy when it comes down.


Notes:

-they say the Vita timing is harder than ps3. I only have Vita version, and while nailing the accuracy timing IS hard, I have gotten use to it.
-the timing of everything varies per pitcher
-if you know a pitcher well, they did a good job of keeping their windups pretty true to form, at least for the Braves. Between playing a lot and knowing your pitchers, you can use that to assist in your timing.
-once you start pitching a shutout and/or striking them out a lot, your pitcher's confidence will rise. This makes your 'thin yellow line' for accuracy much larger and easier to hit.
 
I can't pitch....and I don't get it. I'm not new to the series at all. Something about the pitching is just screwy. I'm not using that pulse pitching stuff. But, it doesn't matter where I aim the pitch, it goes completely somewhere else. MAYBE about 1 in every 6 pitches does the ball go where I aim.

This happens on both the PS3 and Vita. Example: Say I aim a fastball high and inside, I get a ball low and outside and WAY low.

It's infuriating. I will pitch the ball to a great location, and bam....ball.....WAY off.

It's ruining the game for me.....really tempted to take up Gamestop's +50% today and cut my losses. The pitching is way too sporadic.

No trouble with batting, but if you can't succeed on defense, what's the point?

Sorry for the ramble, but any input would be greatly appreciated.

Yay, it's not just me. I just don't get it either and I'm not new to the series as well.
 

Mrbob

Member
To add the above, here is my recommendation for pitching. I use meter pitching and tend to do pretty well with it:

1) Be careful when you attempt max strength in pitching. You are sacrificing accuracy for more power. I rarely attempt to max out power when pitching. I just tap x to start the windup and x at the yellow meter to try and get an accurate pitch. The only pitch types I try to max out occasionally is the fastball or the 2 seam fastball. Once in awhile a slider. I believe maxing out power for an off speed pitch like a curve ball or change up is counter productive. Those pitches are designed to have more break to them, and they don't break properly when you are trying to force a lot of power into them

2) Look at the arrows on a breaking pitch to see how much movement there is. If the there is one arrow, the pitch won't break much. If the pitch has two arrows, it'll break slightly. If the pitch has 3 arrows it'll break quite a bit, and if the pitch has 4 arrows it will break to a big degree. Where you place the ball icon is where the pitch is going to be start and then it will break in the direction the arrow(s) are pointing. Accuracy is important with these off speed pitches. If you go above the accuracy marker the pitch is going to hang high, and if you go below the marker the ball is going to break way too much towards the ground. This is why you don't want to put a lot of power behind these pitches, so you can attempt to get the best break possible.

I think one of the better ways to practice pitching is to play as a pitcher in the Road to the Show game mode. You'll get used to what you need to do through repetition!
 
To add the above, here is my recommendation for pitching. I use meter pitching and tend to do pretty well with it:

1) Be careful when you attempt max strength in pitching. You are sacrificing accuracy for more power. I rarely attempt to max out power when pitching. I just tap x to start the windup and x at the yellow meter to try and get an accurate pitch. The only pitch types I try to max out occasionally is the fastball or the 2 seam fastball. Once in awhile a slider. I believe maxing out power for an off speed pitch like a curve ball or change up is counter productive. Those pitches are designed to have more break to them, and they don't break properly when you are trying to force a lot of power into them

2) Look at the arrows on a breaking pitch to see how much movement there is. If the there is one arrow, the pitch won't break much. If the pitch has two arrows, it'll break slightly. If the pitch has 3 arrows it'll break quite a bit, and if the pitch has 4 arrows it will break to a big degree. Where you place the ball icon is where the pitch is going to be start and then it will break in the direction the arrow(s) are pointing. Accuracy is important with these off speed pitches. If you go above the accuracy marker the pitch is going to hang high, and if you go below the marker the ball is going to break way too much towards the ground. This is why you don't want to put a lot of power behind these pitches, so you can attempt to get the best break possible.

I actually think one of the better ways to practice pitching is to play as a pitcher in the Road to the Show game mode. You'll get used to what you need to do through repetition!

My problem with the metered pitching is after I select the power, it seems like the rate at which the meter moves to try to select accuracy is faster or less responsive than it was before. My timing is way off and I keep missing it. I do all the stuff you're talking about already and did so before I got the Vita version, but something about this year's version is off for me on the timing.
 

turnbuckle

Member
Finally started playing the PS3 version and I don't think I'll be able to look at the Vita version again.

Anywho the only thing I've messed with so far is Diamond Dynasty and I'm getting the sense that that's the only thing I'll end up doing with this game period. The mode is just way too addictive and you don't run into the issue of people quitting nearly as often and it's just fun to see teams people come up with while working on your team's progress as well. So far I've experienced very very infrequent lag. Most games I've played (about 20 now) have been quite smooth and enjoyable.

People still cheese on the baserunning. I don't know how many times I've gotten caught having to choose between letting a man on first reach third on a bunt while trying to get the force at first or just hanging onto the ball and letting the bunt go down as a single/error. The turnaround and throwing animations are still sluggish in the infield and my AI has made some pretty awful non-tags on baserunners running right in their path.

Hitting feels a lot better this year for me online and the presentation is really quick after having the game installed. Some commentary bugs I've noticed while going through DD - the broadcast announcers will sometimes refer to my team or my opponents team as being a regular MLB team. Although I'm called the Green Bay Tebows, I've been referred to as the Red Sox and Orioles on a couple occasions. Also, it's pretty funny having multiple Dustin Predroias in my lineup at the same time.

Bottom Line - This is my favorite version of the Show yet, and I haven't even touched the other modes that I generally love.
 

Cornbread78

Member
I just picked this up for my VITA and I can;t wait to give it a whirl. Does teh VITA version have the full fantasy draft ability?
 
FYI: The $20 off the vita version with purchase of both works with Gamestop's $10 off select Vita games coupon.

So getting both version for $70 is fucking win.
 
Brian SCEA said:
The two keys to succeeding in late game are knowing when to pull your starter, and transitioning to relief pitchers.

Starters
As a starter gets tired, he loses control of pitch location more than anything else. In fact, some pitchers gain velocity late innings while very few lose more than 1mph (there's even a hidden attribute that handles this). Keeping this in mind, when a starter is tired you want to pitch around a bit more. This is because it's much more important to avoid throwing easy pitches down the middle than to avoid throwing balls.

How does that work? For simplicity, imagine a normal pitcher misses in a circle of 6 inches radius. Let's say in the 7th inning, he misses in a 6.5 inch radius. By moving all his pitches out .5 inch (for example), as far as deep strikes are concerned he's no worse off than before. The drawbacks are the batter can get ahead on the count more, you might bean or wild pitch by accident (which isn't that common all things considered), and you throw more pitches per batter faced. But since this strategy overall can keep a pitcher in the game you'd otherwise pull, it's a way of coping with a loss of control. This is especially more important for mid to low tier starters than for top starters.

Most starters can pitch 100, even 110 pitches until they hit 25% energy. It all depends on their stamina attribute. Below 25% energy, starters start losing control more rapidly. In a close game and a #5 starter, you might want to pull him at that point. But with a #1 starter or in a game you've sealed the deal you can certainly keep going. You'll underperform on average, but it won't matter because a win is a win.

It's worth noting that aside from pitcher attributes (HPer9, BBPer9, KPer9), energy is the second most important factor in pitching. I'd even say that in a typical game attributes are roughly 70% importance, energy is 20%, and confidence is 10%. The problem here is that if you drain every starter to 0 energy as an extreme, instead of being only 20% important it easily become 40% or 50% important. Don't let that happen in a game that matters - only run energy down to 0% because you don't care.

The penalties ramp up as you go below 25% energy. Likewise, from 100% down to 25% energy it's not a huge difference.

Relievers

Collectively speaking, mid relief pitchers are much worse than starters. In fact, the average mid reliever is a step worse than even the average 5th starter. And considering this is based on relievers pitching 1 inning each, they're even worse than their stats say. The main saving grace is that you use the above average relievers much more than the below average ones whenever possible.

With that in mind, in an important game you want to limit relievers to 1 inning each. A reliever with full energy is comparable to a bad starter with low energy - which is also why you don't just keep a starter in forever (he'll eventually cross the point of being worse than your relievers).

The closer is the exception, and that's why you only use him when it matters and save him otherwise. If you're going to lose, who cares if you lose by 5 runs or 10 after all? They're both the same as far as the season looks at it. Let the bad relievers handle the blowouts.

Relievers have to pitch, knowing that they're not as good. When the game is close, they have to pitch carefully rather than always to the batter like some top starter can. A good starter can miss the ball right down the middle and it'll still be unhittable at 98mph. A reliever certainly can't, otherwise he'd be slated to start games himself.

The last issue is that as a video game, switching between any two pitchers can be jarring and takes some pitches to get used to. This applies to something as simple as jumping into an exhibition game, playing for 1 inning, and jumping into another with a different team. This was for me the hardest part about getting effective with relief pitching.

With all that said, even though relief pitchers are overall worse than starters this is only borne out in the long run. In any given game, it wouldn't be a surprise to see relievers shut out the side while the starter did poorly. It's just a matter of probability and how you manage that risk.

I used to have the same problems as far as relief pitching, but I found the above two keys to be the solution.

Other Notes
By the way, I do want to add that as far as the game plays and hits are determined, the hitting engine has no idea which team is AI or human controlled. The concept doesn't exist in the hitting engine, and it doesn't treat AI vs AI games any differently than human vs human games.

If it wasn't for the fact that the Show is a team-built video game with competitors, I'd publish the logic for hit determination and it wouldn't be that long. The rules are mainly the physical interaction between timing, pitch location, bat aim location and size, and player attributes. When you use a mode like timing-only, all the missing components are determined automatically using the AI code without any modification.

Take a look at the Swing Analysis for the AI after a pitch. Whatever hit or miss resulted, it would have been the same for you had you made the same inputs. Keep in mind player attribute and the difficulty setting both play a role here as well in scaling how big or small your batting cursor is.

This means the AI is responsible for picking the right timing and right batting cursor aim, then deciding if he should swing or not. The way the AI does this, it doesn't know where the ball is exactly or what the result of his swing will be. The AI wears "beer goggles" so even if the pitch is inside the AI might think it's down the middle. This is exactly why the AI will take strikes or chase balls, and (less trivially) why pitch break fools the AI correctly. A slider that lands outside might get the AI to swing, whereas a backwards slider on the inside might get the AI to take the pitch. A canned system is incapable of getting this to work correctly and naturally in every aspect. And that in summary is exactly why the system is double-blind. The AI doesn't know where the ball is and what the hitting engine will spit out, and the hitting engine has no idea who's controlling the bat.
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Another discussion by Brian_SCEA breaking down the Unholy Trinity of sliders CPU Pitching Control, Pitcher Consistency, and Strike Frequency:
... make some good points about what the two sliders can do in practice. Here's some extra info that might help everyone interested in these sliders.

The Consistency and Control sliders work in different ways, and both can cause more walks and meatballs for different reasons. Let's look at walks first. Consistency can really help walks because the pitcher will sometimes make big obvious misses that are easier for the hitter to spot. Control can help walks with less control because you'll be forced to pitch around hitters more for fear of throwing meatballs. So the Consistency effect is mechanical - it's up to the hitter to notice the ball, and the Control effect is strategic - it's up to the pitcher to throw the ball.

Regarding Control, notice that if you reduce the pitch control and simply pitch exactly the way you used to, you're going to give up more meatballs (instead of more walks!). So whether the slider affects walks or meatballs is entirely up to the pitcher. The game will only play based on your input, and there's no slider to change that.

On the AI side, you can decide which effect happens more (meatballs/walks) based on your CPU Strike Frequency setting. All of the sliders serve an interconnected purpose like this.

Regarding Consistency, notice that it mainly helps batters with their Discipline. If you already have good discipline it might not help you draw more walks because you were already taking balls (including everything borderline). But if you rarely draw walks it could potentially double or triple the number of walks you get.

This is why even though both sliders affect walks and meatballs, some people would consider Consistency to be more related to walks and Control to be more related to meatballs. But really, they both affect both depending on the situation and team tendencies. For example we've seen how the answer will depend on if we're talking a Human or AI batter for Consistency, and if we're talking a Human or AI pitcher for Control. It also depends on if the batter is having Discipline trouble (for Consistency) and if the pitcher can adapt his strategy (for Control).

This is why it's possible to debate in circles forever on what they do; the answer is blowing in the wind..
 
I'm almost ready to give up on the Vita version. Pitching is just so annoying now. I even turned it on to classic just to watch what would happen and the pitching is all over the place. It's just so frustrating not being able to place a pitch within reason compared to previous years. It feels almost like a crap shoot now.
 

eznark

Banned
I'm almost ready to give up on the Vita version. Pitching is just so annoying now. I even turned it on to classic just to watch what would happen and the pitching is all over the place. It's just so frustrating not being able to place a pitch within reason compared to previous years. It feels almost like a crap shoot now.

Huh, I'm finding it crazy easy to pinpoint pitches to the point where I am hesitant to play my RTTS pitcher on the PS3 as I'm so much better on the Vita.
 

turnbuckle

Member
Cheating AI in this game is insane.
? Never ever thought the game was cheating. Shit happens in baseball, just ask braves/red sox fans about last september. I've accused the game of cheating out of my own frustrations but never really believed it. Still don't. Relax, there's no crying in baseball.
 

newjeruse

Member
I'm Sandy Koufax fron innings 1 to 8 and inning 9 comes and I'm Armando Benitez. I'm not losing because of it, but it's so glaringly obvious.
 
I'm Sandy Koufax fron innings 1 to 8 and inning 9 comes and I'm Armando Benitez. I'm not losing because of it, but it's so glaringly obvious.
We've went over this countless times on the OS boards... there is no tangible CPU comeback, but the CPU does lock onto certain pitching factors/trends harder and will sell out on them late in games. The first piece I osted from the boards is very insightful on that from a pitcher perspective.
 
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That's a dumb design decision.
Really? Because if you're throwing first pitch fastball outside corner all game and late in the game a batter looks to sit on it, puts a Power swing and hits one out, that's bad? Because that happens in real life (Dan Johnson in Game 162 last year says hi)

Again, if you're trying to protect a late lead with a tiring pitcher throwing the same patterns you did early in the game, you're dead. If you follow API late in the game (why even do that), you're dead. It's been that way for awhile, you need to bring your best out there in Close and Late situations. The funny thing is from what I've played/observed from the MLB 12/OS Sports Community, the "CPU Comeback" is happening LESS this year.

Also what difficulty level do you play with/sliders?
 

newjeruse

Member
I never use API. I play on HOF with custom sliders I found in the vault. Again, it's not keeping me from winning. It just looks silly and it's so jarring because it's so obvious that the cpu changes performance on a dime.
 

turnbuckle

Member
I never use API. I play on HOF with custom sliders I found in the vault. Again, it's not keeping me from winning. It just looks silly and it's so jarring because it's so obvious that the cpu changes performance on a dime.

That happens in real life all the time. You'll see many box scores where a team will score a bunch of runs in one inning and get blanked the rest. It happens more frequently in later innings because of fatigue and bringing in relievers, who typically are relievers because they couldn't quite make the cut as a starter. Several exceptions, but that's the reality of the situation.

I won a game last night against another guy in what was a close, low-scoring game until the last inning where I managed to get something like 13 hits and 11 runs. And no, I wasn't cheating :p

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never use API either. When playing regular games online I do HOF or Legend except for whatever difficulty the DD mode defaults to.
 

KaYotiX

Banned
I'm almost ready to give up on the Vita version. Pitching is just so annoying now. I even turned it on to classic just to watch what would happen and the pitching is all over the place. It's just so frustrating not being able to place a pitch within reason compared to previous years. It feels almost like a crap shoot now.

pitching seems perfect to me on PS3 and vita. I use pulse on both, if i get a tight circle the ball will basically be in the general vicinity of where i chose. If i mess up, its either going to be a groove ball down the middle of the plate or way off.

I can see the location better on the Vita though when i bat and usually get more walks, the PS3 version i have yet to find my groove.
 

newjeruse

Member
That happens in real life all the time. You'll see many box scores where a team will score a bunch of runs in one inning and get blanked the rest. It happens more frequently in later innings because of fatigue and bringing in relievers, who typically are relievers because they couldn't quite make the cut as a starter. Several exceptions, but that's the reality of the situation.

I won a game last night against another guy in what was a close, low-scoring game until the last inning where I managed to get something like 13 hits and 11 runs. And no, I wasn't cheating :p

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never use API either. When playing regular games online I do HOF or Legend except for whatever difficulty the DD mode defaults to.
It's not the reality of the situation and you're not addressing my issue. If you want for the computer to ramp up the AI in the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th at bat against one pitcher, that makes sense. Actually, I would find that pretty cool. But when you allow me to dominate for 8 innings and then flick a switch and force my fielders to make errors in the 9th or make my top tier reliever way too hittable, well that's not fun. That's transparently cheap artificial intelligence.
 
It's not the reality of the situation and you're not addressing my issue. If you want for the computer to ramp up the AI in the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th at bat against one pitcher, that makes sense. Actually, I would find that pretty cool. But when you allow me to dominate for 8 innings and then flick a switch and force my fielders to make errors in the 9th or make my top tier reliever way too hittable, well that's not fun. That's transparently cheap artificial intelligence.
I argued this with the devs too, and in explicit terms they broke down what each rating does... there is no code for a CPU comeback nowadays. What does exist is a bunch of different ratings/patterns the CPU tries to look for. A guy even is tracking this among OS Sports players and according to his research, there are less BS CPU comebacks so far. I mean I know what you're talking about, but even I gotta say I disagree with the bolded.
 

turnbuckle

Member
It's not the reality of the situation and you're not addressing my issue. If you want for the computer to ramp up the AI in the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th at bat against one pitcher, that makes sense. Actually, I would find that pretty cool. But when you allow me to dominate for 8 innings and then flick a switch and force my fielders to make errors in the 9th or make my top tier reliever way too hittable, well that's not fun. That's transparently cheap artificial intelligence.

Like I said before I hadn't seen what you're experiencing with any kind of regularity that would lead me to think the CPU was cheating. I've had many comebacks against the CPU and the CPU has done the same against me. I had a stretch two years ago where I converted over 30 saves in a row with the same settings you're using, and a stretch where I blew 3 in a row on a few occasions.

The devs have said for many years now that there is no comeback code in the game period. Not that they wouldn't lie, but I've never seen what you're saying happening with a frequency that would feel wrong or broken or rubber-bandy. I know it's your anecdotes versus mine, so I guess there's not much more either of us could say to change the mind of the other.
 
Brian SCEA said:
This means the AI is responsible for picking the right timing and right batting cursor aim, then deciding if he should swing or not. The way the AI does this, it doesn't know where the ball is exactly or what the result of his swing will be. The AI wears "beer goggles" so even if the pitch is inside the AI might think it's down the middle. This is exactly why the AI will take strikes or chase balls, and (less trivially) why pitch break fools the AI correctly. A slider that lands outside might get the AI to swing, whereas a backwards slider on the inside might get the AI to take the pitch. A canned system is incapable of getting this to work correctly and naturally in every aspect. And that in summary is exactly why the system is double-blind. The AI doesn't know where the ball is and what the hitting engine will spit out, and the hitting engine has no idea who's controlling the bat.

I always thought the Show's AI was unique in that the CPU hitters have a believable sense of timing, can be set up with logical pitch sequences, getting 'buckled knees' and so forth. You don't usually see that in baseball sims. Impressed to read it's completely unscripted.

The comeback AI is odd, I think a big problem is players simply having trouble adjusting to the timing of relief pitchers after 6-7-8 innings of a starter's motion.
 

Riggs

Banned
I made a comment in here a few weeks ago about input lag on flat screen LCD's that some of you who are having trouble pitching should read. First thing is first, what kind of pitching are you using?

If it's metered, test your self in practice. See if you can hit your desired location, if you are having to press the X button early to hit where you want, probably video lag. If you press the X button and the marker goes way down from where you want it, probably video lag.

It's very easy to fix this unless your TV is like a complete piece of shit. Force game to run 1080P via the PS3 display settings (XMB). Make sure your TV has "Game mode" or "Fast response" , set to on. This language can really differ depending on make and model.

I had MLB The show 11 and had zero problems, I bought a new Vizio 42" (not the greatest of TV's mind you) and had horrid video lags. AI was hitting home runs off me non stop, I finally figured out the above and now am striking them out as it should be!

Hope this helps anyone out there who may be having this problem and does not know about it, or notice it right away. It's most noticeable on meter'd and pulse pitching mind you :D
 
It's very easy to fix this unless your TV is like a complete piece of shit. Force game to run 1080P via the PS3 display settings (XMB). Make sure your TV has "Game mode" or "Fast response" , set to on. This language can really differ depending on make and model.
Ummm, if I'm not mistaken isn't the game optimized to run at 720p? In fact the game tells you to do that or run the risk of said lag and errors on display. Weird.
 

friz898

Member
Hey guys, what is the smallest stadium in the game? Including spring training and minor league stadiums. What is biggest or most spacious?

Also should we expect roster updates in a week or so?
 
The most frustrating thing in rrts is getting called up to the majors and riding the pine for 2 seasons watching your ratings plummet... & never getting a start or being sent back down. 1 at bat every... 8 or 9 games
 
Hey guys, what is the smallest stadium in the game? Including spring training and minor league stadiums. What is biggest or most spacious?

Also should we expect roster updates in a week or so?
A lot of that info can be Googled... just type in the name and dimensions. NYS might be the smallest American league stadium though.

Roster updates begin every Monday starting in the 1st week of April I think. If you want the most up-to-date roster with full minor league players added, check out Knight165's Rosters, they'll be out a little after Opening Day.
 

Riggs

Banned
Ummm, if I'm not mistaken isn't the game optimized to run at 720p? In fact the game tells you to do that or run the risk of said lag and errors on display. Weird.
Yep. But my tv was laggy with all the above done unless I forced it to 1080p. The fast response setting on my tv did nothing at 720p. No idea , weird for sure.
 

friz898

Member
A lot of that info can be Googled... just type in the name and dimensions. NYS might be the smallest American league stadium though.

Roster updates begin every Monday starting in the 1st week of April I think. If you want the most up-to-date roster with full minor league players added, check out Knight165's Rosters, they'll be out a little after Opening Day.

as for Google, you can pretty much find everything you ever needed in life there, I just figured someone may know off top of their head.

Thanks on the rosters tip, had no clue.
 
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