FranXico
Member
That probably was guaranteeing both XBox One and Windows apps support. Platform holders regularly try to make sure of this every time they release new hardware.
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MS confirms indie program for XB1, was a big GamesCom surprise, angry at GI for leak
- Thread starter chubigans
- Start date
That probably was guaranteeing both XBox One and Windows apps support. Platform holders regularly try to make sure of this every time they release new hardware.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
A link about Unity3D pricing for consoles
http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/25490/unity-to-ps3-or-360.html
"Licensing costs according to Unity sales as of yesterday:
Hi there,
Thanks for the email.
XBox and PS3 pricing is set at $80K per XBox or PS3 title, and $40K per XBLA or PSN title. > Unity XBox should become available in late 2010 and PS3 early next year.
Cheers,
-- Caitlyn Meeks"
I cant confirm how valid it is, but from that one, most indies would not be able to even come close to afford a release on xbox one (or PS4 with Unity too)
Why would you think Unity pricing from 2010 in that forum post would be valid pricing for the new business model for the Xbox One? Yet to be officially announced even.
I think you'll need to wait for official MS announcements on self-publishing and then possibly a second wait for Unity pricing regarding the licensing and publishing, possibly even post launch of the console itself.
They always planned WinRT and XBLIG v2. They're not changing the policy now, they're just changing the message.
A link about Unity3D pricing for consoles
http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/25490/unity-to-ps3-or-360.html
"Licensing costs according to Unity sales as of yesterday:
Hi there,
Thanks for the email.
XBox and PS3 pricing is set at $80K per XBox or PS3 title, and $40K per XBLA or PSN title. > Unity XBox should become available in late 2010 and PS3 early next year.
Cheers,
-- Caitlyn Meeks"
I cant confirm how valid it is, but from that one, most indies would not be able to even come close to afford a release on xbox one (or PS4 with Unity too)
Unity may need to assess their pricing structures in the light of self-publish support across Xbox one and PS4. This is more like XBLIG than XBLA - did unity have the same pricing for XBLIG titles?
I only assume of course
But this is what we know, so my assumption is based on the $40K of course and considering those are new systems could go even higher
I am waiting to be pleasantly surprised
, but i would not hold my breath eitherI am not sure you could put a Unity game in XBLIG, i think it was XNA only
C'mon buddy, let's not go there. Oh, well, if you insist:
PS4 vs Xbox One
8 GB GDDR5 vs 8 GB DDR3+32 MB eSRAM
176 GB/s vs 68/102 GB/s bandwidth
32 vs 16 ROP
72 vs 48 TMU
18 CU vs 12 CU
1152 vs 768 SP
1.84 vs 1.2 TFLOPS
GCN with added GCN 2.0 functionalities vs GCN 1.0
7 GB RAM + 6 cores (with tendency to free up even more resources) available to games vs 5 GB RAM + 6 cores available for games.
1 OS vs 3 OS (huh, I guess Xbox wins this one
lol
15 minutes vs 5 minutes (+30 seconds through Kinect) game recording
The rest was mostly covered by Amir0x.
But, the real question is; have I seen Titanfall?
Also, if it's full, unfettered access to the hardware as some are claiming why would EA, Ubisoft etc EVER bother to get their code signed by MS in the future? What's the point?
No, when Whitten says full access to the hardware I think he means Kinect and Achievements, and maybe C++ rather than C#. Unsigned code will still be running in a very different sandbox to signed code. No matter how good the store 'discovery' is, this separation is not what Blow, Lanning, thatgamecompany etc were asking for.
Wait for the small print.
No, when Whitten says full access to the hardware I think he means Kinect and Achievements, and maybe C++ rather than C#. Unsigned code will still be running in a very different sandbox to signed code. No matter how good the store 'discovery' is, this separation is not what Blow, Lanning, thatgamecompany etc were asking for.
Wait for the small print.
You really think MS will give indies a sandpit to play in that's less powerful than the 360?
You trying to sell the console to someone who has already paid for it....
This made me lol. The console war rages on. "Blue on blue! Blue on blue!"
I know hey...?
I've made the same mistake of attacking people who actually agreed with me a couple times, and have had it happen to me as well. Seeing it is always amusing as I know the feeling.
Aw, shit, I quoted the wrong post. Should have been this one:
And I wasn't trying to sell you anything. I was merely making a point that the difference is much less trivial than what you make it to be.
immortal-joe
Member
The "this was our plan all along" line killed me.
I don't think negative is the right word, but I'm definitely skeptical. Between self publishing not being available at launch, retail consoles working as devkits not being available at launch and the rumors that self published titles are segregated to the app market and therefore only have 3 GB of RAM to work with there's definitely more to the story than "Microsoft allows self publishing on the XB1!"
It's definitely a step in the right direction and in theory it sounds terrific, but let's wait and see how Microsoft does when it comes to execution. There is a reason why most indies are still skeptical.
And i do agree that my post could have had more detail to it, in the end i guess i was trying to take a jab at MS for basically turning their console into the PS4 1.5
DigitalDevilSummoner
zero cognitive reasoning abilities
I am getting seriously dizzy from all these 180s. Seriously I don't care anymore.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
PS4 1.5, so better than the PS4?
It is, very much so as an engine to develop with.
However the licensing costs..not so much
Slow Clap.gif
Nothing wrong with opening to indies but this is so true. That spinning and backpedaling is getting ridiculously stupid. Microsofts gaming division seems to have no clue what they are actually doing. Confusing messages and contradicting PR statements... This is one way to kill any hype for the console.
A good number of them have been burnt by MS in the past, even if they were making an XBL exclusive game, or have heard plenty of horror stories. I can understand why they're skeptical. That's why this is only the first step to having a decent indie policy and why it won't make up the difference immediately. Microsoft has a lot of work to do to rebuild their lost trust.
A link about Unity3D pricing for consoles
http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/25490/unity-to-ps3-or-360.html
"Licensing costs according to Unity sales as of yesterday:
Hi there,
Thanks for the email.
XBox and PS3 pricing is set at $80K per XBox or PS3 title, and $40K per XBLA or PSN title. > Unity XBox should become available in late 2010 and PS3 early next year.
Cheers,
-- Caitlyn Meeks"
I cant confirm how valid it is, but from that one, most indies would not be able to even come close to afford a release on xbox one (or PS4 with Unity too)
Prices for Unity licenses to publish to consoles:
Single publishing to Xbox or PS3 is 40K
Double publising to two consoles the same time is 60K
WiiU publishing is free (if you are signed up with Nintendo as developer)
We have no proper answer on PS4 deal yet.
Xbone deal is unclear as well and if it's even directly supported from Microsoft's side like Sony and Nintendo do.
A self publishing system like this needs a proper, thought out support structure and platform, otherwise it will just go down a similar road like xblig did. My biggest concern is visibility and the system will raise or fall with this. The last minute change and how fast it went makes me think that it can't be properly thought through and I don't see how such a change can be planned out properly in such a short time.
I guess that is the reason the devkit part won't be available from the start but approximately a year after the release of the xbone. That gives Microsoft more time to prepare a proper backbone (pun intended..)
While Sony's approach will give them a lot of indie support right form the start, Microsoft will obviously work with established studios before and during release and indies will join in later once the devkit part is available. On the other hand Indies will have to proof to Sony that their game is worth publishing on the PS4 while the curating part on Xbone might be less restricted.
Also the publishing barrier is only one hurdle to jump over. We still don't know all the details of the new policies and QA processes as well as how much the self publishing will be curated or if they changed the policies on patching costs. Issues like these are most of the time a bigger problem for indies when it comes to publishing on consoles.
Let's say I am positive but hesitant at this point. Until now Microsoft didn't show a lot of interest or focus towards indies and self publising. At least not compared to Sony or Nintendo. It's a step into the right direction and shows they at least understood the importance of indies and the innovations they bring for the big platforms. Even though it took an uproar from the public.
Also, communication is somewhat even more important than the actual hurdles, specially during the AQ stage.
No, the PS4 not made by Sony..
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
It is an interesting balancing act, do you allow full self publishing and end up with stockpiles of crap incomplete game etc OR do you keep some red tape and control over Indie's to weed out the crap (so to speak)?
I hope Sony, Nintendo, MS and other potential mediums like Steam produce a quick streamlined process but don't just allow everything to publish live without some basic checks and balances. Perhaps if effective categorisation or search filters were present we wouldn't end up with a sea of crap and really get into helping the Indie industry produce more pearls for us to play. Perhaps Indie grants similar to what OUYA is doing with kickstarter Indie's is a solid move. If that was combined with self publishing and collaboration or support we could see exponential growth in quality and quantity.
Doesn't the 3GB only have access to a single core as well?
SirIgbyCeaser
Banned
The using a retail xbone to turn it into a devkit could be really innovative. I guess that's one way to sell consoles. Though yes, the reason this hasn't really been done before is because you can develope anything in a dev kit environment. Like a free loader, emulators, duel booting OS's and ect.
But it's going to be a severely cut down dev kit I assume, and something tells me it won't be free and cost more than it should.
Well at gamescom I guess we'll learn everything and than be able to appropriately judge it.
But it's going to be a severely cut down dev kit I assume, and something tells me it won't be free and cost more than it should.
Well at gamescom I guess we'll learn everything and than be able to appropriately judge it.
travisbickle
Member
I guess it wasn't worth talking about this indie development policy at E3 when they had the mandatory online and second-hand restrictions to get everyone excited about.
xbox 360 could be used for testing XBLIG games as well, so it is not new
Hopefully will have a more full feature set, like achivements this time
If true, will defintly give xbox one a big edge for indies, if you can directly test games on any xbox one from Unity3D, this would be huge, since any other fees could be covered much easier if you have a tested and great game prepared for release
That would make finding funding a lot easier
how do you mean?
Updated Eurogamer article talking about how there may be strings attached to this new policy reversal.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-24-microsoft-will-allow-self-publishing-after-all-rumour
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-07-24-microsoft-will-allow-self-publishing-after-all-rumour
katsubento
Member
I am getting seriously dizzy from all these 180s. Seriously I don't care anymore.
Yep. All I see is a company that clearly has no idea what they are doing.
How can WiiU be free ? That is some amazing info right there
I guess you need a dev kit to test and have the game approved though, so there are other expenses that xbox one may not have
Maybe Unity chanrges less for PS4/xbox one too or even have a free license, which would be huge for indies
I've little doubt the tools will be free. Or at most that there'll be an annual registration fee ala XBLIG/PSM/Appstore etc.
It's not an entirely new concept if it works on top of the windows partition. If that's the case it would be akin to PSM from a 'tools and dev kit' point of view. Every Vita or PSM device can play your PSM code. Your game/app gets a limited little partition to work within.
If it can actually act as a fully fledged kit for native Xbox One software - with the same low level access etc. as regular kits - then that would be a new idea.
SirIgbyCeaser
Banned
Yeah true, any developer no matter in size can buy an xbone just to start testing porting his game in devkit mode. Especially if not closed like XBLIG.
The thing is, in a development environment you can develop anything. Which sounds to me like the xbone would turn into a CFW PSP.
Hmm. Is he talking speculatively or from an informed pov?
He's saying what some of us have guessed for a while now, about things being limited to the windows partition. Which would kind of suck, not really a reversal of their existing policies.
MikeJAMoran
Member
Everybody is reporting retail Xbox Ones can become dev kits, but surely they mean debug kit? If it's full dev, i.e. low-level access, it seems slightly dangerous exposing so much from a piracy or hacking angle.
I'm assuming this is more like XNA/XBLIG. I mean I created a basic tank game and ran it on Xbox 360...
Of course we don't know for sure, but all these 180s are clouding the water even further in my opinion.
I'm assuming this is more like XNA/XBLIG. I mean I created a basic tank game and ran it on Xbox 360...
Of course we don't know for sure, but all these 180s are clouding the water even further in my opinion.
How can WiiU be free ? That is some amazing info right there
I guess you need a dev kit to test and have the game approved though, so there are other expenses that xbox one may not have
Maybe Unity chanrges less for PS4/xbox one too or even have a free license, which would be huge for indies
Nintendo was the first one to strike a deal with Unity for indies. Yet Sony gets all the credit for indie darling..
If you are an official Nintendo developer (as of late 2012 iirc, Nintendo also lowered the requirements to be able to sign up with them as a dev) they basically carry the costs for Unity publishing to all Nintendo platforms. It's a really great deal and shows that they really understand how important indies are. They just don't use their indie support strategy as much in their Marketing and PR campaigns as Sony does. Which is kind of a shame to be honest.
But yeah, you do need a devkit - they are not THAT expensive though
I think the more interesting part of this development is if they will also strike a deal with Unity like Sony and Nintendo. If they do it might regain them a lot of trust. Especially with how fast Unity is growing including support and approval from big studios as well.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Pretty sure it's speculative. He's definitely not on good terms with Microsoft after Retro City Rampage so I can't imagine he knows too much about what's going on behind the scenes.
At this point I'm having a hard time believing the 3 GB limit rumor. Whitten already 100% confirmed that indie games won't be separated off into another part of the interface/store and also seemed to suggest that indie devs will be able to take full advantage of the platform's power.
I'm sure we'll find out the concrete details soon enough though.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
If the only restriction is that you can only use 3 gigs of RAM, this ensures pricay is rules out, but you can still use more ressources than Wii U has to offer, which should be really sufficient for any hobby-developer.
I didn't see (hear) the Giant Bomb interview until now - it certainly sounds very unequivocal about it being not a half-full experience and that in the future there won't be a distinction between kits and regular hardware.
Color me surprised if that's the case. I'll await total confirmation when they announce all the details given some of their previous PR mixups, but that sounds promising for sure. Just a shame it's taking so long to happen, a year or 18 months of limited indie activity could set the tone for the future if people (devs & consumers) gravitate elsewhere.
My concern isn't the hobbyist or those just looking to learn and tinker. There's many indies, of big and small sizes, doing this for a living. The technical playing field for them should be level vs other pubs and developers. I think Whitten's comments to GiantBomb are a lot more encouraging on this front though, as above.
Acheteedo
Member
The lack of self-publishing was my chief complaint about the Xbone. This is why we always need competition, it can force companies to do the right thing.
The implementation of PS4 and Xbone will be interesting to see play out. As we've seen on iOS and Android it's a tough thing to get right, you need to curb the prominence of garbage while encouraging the visibility of the quality stuff.
The implementation of PS4 and Xbone will be interesting to see play out. As we've seen on iOS and Android it's a tough thing to get right, you need to curb the prominence of garbage while encouraging the visibility of the quality stuff.
Nintendo was the first one to strike a deal with Unity for indies. Yet Sony gets all the credit for indie darling..
If you are an official Nintendo developer (as of late 2012 iirc, Nintendo also lowered the requirements to be able to sign up with them as a dev) they basically carry the costs for Unity publishing to all Nintendo platforms. It's a really great deal and shows that they really understand how important indies are. They just don't use their indie support strategy as much in their Marketing and PR campaigns as Sony does. Which is kind of a shame to be honest.
But yeah, you do need a devkit - they are not THAT expensive though
I think the more interesting part of this development is if they will also strike a deal with Unity like Sony and Nintendo. If they do it might regain them a lot of trust. Especially with how fast Unity is growing including support and approval from big studios as well.
Indeed, the free Unity is suprising, i had no idea they had such a deal
And of course even if the dev kit is $10K, it is still way lower than a probable $40K for the other systems for the Unity license
Of course if xbox one has a similar deal for free Unity, then would have the edge
But for now seems the best console for indies are in order
WiiU (free unity - probable 5-10K for dev kit)
Xbox one (free dev kit - probable 40K for Unity)
PS4 (40K for Unity + 10K for dev kit)
For finding funding for a tested and close to release game though xbox one would have an edge, since it allows actual free testing (probably
)I found a link that mentions 5K
http://**************/wii-u-dev-kit/
wiiudaily is the site, i dont know why it was cut in the link above
"Wii U dev kit availability
In order for a developer to get a Wii U dev kit, an agreement has to be made with Nintendo and the developer has to be licensed by the company to use the dev kit to make software for the company. In addition, the developer has to sign a series of contracts and NDAs (Non Disclosure Agreements), and finally, the developer has to purchase the development package. The Wii U dev kit is rumored to cost around $5,000. This price also includes a set of software and other tools that are royalty free to the developer to use in their games."
Which is seems a rather good deal comparing to dev kit prices in general
EDIT: Another link that mentions the 5K
http://www.ubergizmo.com/2013/04/ni...-free-wii-u-dev-kits-to-encourage-developers/
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