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My lengthy defense of the most hated Persona game

randomkid

Member
62s548x.jpg


Here’s my grand defense for the most hated game in the series: Persona 1, AKA Revelations: Persona. I know it’s too late to try and rehabilitate the game’s reputation here on GAF, but I’m hoping that by rambling in modestly structured form for a bit, at least some folks might be able to look at Persona with a fresh perspective. It would be cool if everyone could try to understand what the game did so well and why it resonated so strongly with me and 2 or so other people. If you are the kind of person that thinks games age and become archaic, then I probably don’t have any hope of reaching you, but still, try to put yourself in the right mindset and approach the game on its own terms, and maybe you’ll discover something quite special.

So, Persona. Persona does very interesting things with choice. As the first Megaten rpg released in America, the negotiation system was a revelation (har har), providing the choice to talk your way out of battles and into rewards is a natural D&D element that never got a foothold in countless videogame conversions of the game, and in the first Persona these elements are at their peak. With every demon having four moods, four series of animation and four sets of voiced sound effects, the expanded options really let you get into the headspace of the demons you’re conversing with, unlike traditional SMT’s more spare binary system. Getting into the thick of things with complex sets of reactions (Joy + Interest, that’s what’s up) makes for a fun simulation.

The theme of choice is also really built into the game’s fabric, it’s the reason why in old usenet postings, Persona was recommended to folks who were fans of Gold Box games, during a time when RPG labels were more porous and that sneaky “J” hadn’t yet latched itself omnipresently to the term. Choice here also extends to the fifth character in your party, a friendly way to promote replay value without new game plus, and certain choices locking you out of giant chunks of the game, an unfriendly way of getting you through the game again. In a world though where developers are desperate to ensure that gamers experience all content (so many buzzwords!), the chutzpah of Persona being willing to lock you out of huge swathes of the game is something I actually admire.

It’s easy to underestimate the impact of the modern day setting in a post Persona 3/TWEWY/Alpha Protocol world, but dungeons that were hospitals and police stations and high school students snarling “EAT THIS” with MIGs in pitched street battles felt revelatory. Exploring the comically low-rent polygonal city (is this another reference to the abstracted icons of SMT1 and 2 world maps?) was actually fun, as ridiculous as waiting for traffic to pass might seem. There are also many complaints about the first person perspective dungeons, even though the rest of the game is third person, but the setting variety is nice and many of the wall patterns are quite evocative (Deva Yuga looks like Persepolis!)

The game also does PSX-era philosophizing in a tasteful and generally thoughtful way, while contemporaries were drawing from Evangelion, Persona looked to Zhuangzi and Jung. Not very high-falutin, true, but at least middle brow enough such that my 14 year old Sophie’s World reading self was entranced. The game has something neat to say about loneliness and identity and the way we construct the world around ourselves (all hinted at in the moody intro). The story is very nice and very Kaneko, even if he’s overestimating the literary quality in this interview, I’m very fond of it and it is my franchise favorite.

Here’s where I alienate the remaining people who might have been on board with me so far: if you ignore the loss of the Snow Queen Quest, a 20 hour alternate version of the story that takes place in a series of SMT:If... like towers, Revelations: Persona is actually the superior game. “Lunarvale,” a hodgepodge of America and Japan cobbled together by localizers attempting to mask the game’s origins, is actually more weird and interesting than the Mikage-cho that appears in Persona PSP. This bizarre mashup, combined with a nonsense translation attempt, somehow manages to better fit the lurid dreamscape vibe the original developers were going for. I can’t undersell how one-of-a-kind and wonderfully unsettling the game’s atmosphere is in the PSX version, and this is helped along of course by the sound.

Here are two giant posts I wrote on the music in this game (Part 1, Part 2), it’s maybe the best videogame soundtrack there is. Lemme excerpt to give you a taste of the atmosphere.

Hidehito Aoki composed the dungeon music, which is exquisite. Lengthy songs that are moody, elegant, just plain beautiful and get you PUMPED!

The iconic Deva Yuga
Monochrome: School Revisited Dream-like, synthy, catchy, beautiful, quintessential Persona sound.
Pandora's Den (Deepmost Area): The climax at 1:12!
Ice Castle/Black Snow The twists and turns in this one, so effing good.
Sebek Music, Karma Palace 90's music is the best!!!
Misaki Okibe's range is ridiculous, she composed some of the most memorable, interesting tracks in the whole game.

Reverse Dream World: You think you have this song figured out in the first few seconds, but stick around to see where it suddenly veers off to around :30, hilarious and awesome.
Theme of Nemurin's Love: The intro! The power of a simple lovely melody, a little Uematsu-esque.
Augustia's Wood: The save music, so memorable, I love the grumbling.
City 2 Accident: Do you remember wandering the streets in the town, disoriented, listening to this gorgeousness, thinking about how Lunarvale suddenly seemed so scary, like an unsettling dream?
Bar Attacked by Harem Queen: A bit of jazzy beauty.

More alienating for readers who have gotten this far: the “whitewashing” character designs were all improvements, Kazuma Kaneko redrew everything himself and it’s easy to tell that a lot of thought was put into the redesigns. Finally, Mark is also >>>> Masao, everyone’s always yelling about the jive-talking but to me he came across as quite smart and savvy. I dunno, maybe this is just a Flavor of Love/Outsourced minorities just wanna see themselves effect operating here, leave me alone you guys!

So yes, the franchise’s current fanbase might not be fond of them, but the cast is comprised of characters that are meant to be iconic and not friends you wish you had in real life, a cast that, FFVI-like, is meant to evoke broader themes and not follow the typical arcs of many RPGs these days. Check out the classiness of Yuki’s design, and allow me to selectively quote my giant music posts on how Tsuchiya, master of the character theme, nails it for each party member.
The sign of a good character theme is when you can extrapolate from instrument choice and melody to personality. Here Tsuchiya is the man, no one does it better this side of Uematsu. I hear these songs and I've got a perfect picture in my mind of each cast member. It's what I think of when I think of "videogame music" ha, here are my personal favorites, I could listen to these endlessly.
Mary/Maki: Cheerful, just a hint of melancholy in the notes, love that slap bass.
Yuki: Starts a bit slow, but soon we learn that Yuki's cool but determined.
Alana: The song tells me she's brassy, energetic, fun.
Chris/Reiji: Dangerous, exciting, a bad-ass delinquent.
Elly/Ellen: Classy, elegant, confident.

Some also rag on the dungeon design, but it seems unfair to expect centerpiece labyrinths along the lines of Strange Journey or Etrian Odyssey in a game going for something completely different. Nevertheless, you’ve got tricky mazes with dead ends that test resource allocation skills and provide a sense of accomplishment. Encounters are tough and require thought, careful consideration of when to flee and negotiate is imperative for dungeon survival. This is something that gets lost a bit in the PSP remake as the encounter rate is increased but battles are a bit easier. Exploiting elemental weaknesses isn’t as elegant as in later games, but with a ludicrously high 14 damage types breadth supersedes depth. And there’s even a positioning system to consider that the developers decided to drop from later games rather than refine. In the end, surviving the dungeon and beating the boss is an RPG staple that just plain works, although yes you will probably grit your teeth at some of the loading times.

And finally, you don’t have to take my random word for it. Parish really liked it too! How’s that for an appeal to authority?

For series buffs, it’s fun to trace this game’s historical lineage, as one of the earlier spinoffs of Shin Megami Tensei, it's easy to spot the mainline series influence: the occultism of the opening ritual, the hospital as first dungeon, the first person perspective for dungeon travel, BLUE POINTER MAN, and the omnipresent danger of demons in town and dungeon alike. Revelations: Persona is drawing from a rich and storied history, but manages to recast SMT traditions in interesting new directions. Again, the atmosphere is really unbelievable and something I haven’t come across in other games. It’s more than a simple curiosity and it doesn’t deserve dumb dismissal or sneering derision for its flaws. Revelations: Persona is a real marvel, modern games ought to draw more inspiration from its lessons, and the game belongs in the RPG canon, there I said it!
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
I liked the game when it came out. Granted its a lot different from what the design of the series turned into, its still good on its own. Though I remember going from the JP one to the US one then wondering why the fuck did they make Mark suddenly "black" and added some MS Paint quality hair to the main character.

I think a quick answer is just modern "gamers" bitch, whine and moan way too much about literally fucking everything rather than actually playing games. Hence the problem.

The faster you tune them out the more games you can actually enjoy and not have to waste your time doing posts like this.

Good write up though and it is appreciated that looks like time and effort went into making it!

applause.gif
 

cafemomo

Member
The only thing I hated in P1 was the dungeon crawling/battlan

good Lord almighty, it was the most unbalanced shit ever.

even in the PSP remake it still wasn't fixed to an extent
 

ghibli99

Member
So, I didn't read all of that, and I didn't play the PS1 version, but is the PSP remake worthy? I have it... just haven't started it.
 

randomkid

Member
So, I didn't read all of that, and I didn't play the PS1 version, but is the PSP remake worthy? I have it... just haven't started it.

I dunno, what do you mean by "worthy"? What do you care about in an RPG? I bolded the things I really liked for people who don't wanna read!
 

Vamphuntr

Member
My issues with the games are the high encounter rate, the long loading times and the weird difficulty balance. I really love the settings and characters. Letting you "choose" the fifth character you get and the alternate Snow Queen quest are big advantage to me too.

Can't really agree that the poor localization made the game better. You lose the whole aspect of the demons' lore since they're supposed to be generic monsters in that localization. I didn't find the low poly map comical, it feels much like a chore since it is really ugly and runs poorly. The PSP version is much nicer in that regard.

I loved the dungeons in the game. I really like good mazes with one way paths, teleporters, pitfalls and all that and I felt the game delivered on that front. Demon negotiations can also help on resources conservation while in a dungeon so it's not that bad (also much easier in P2).

I can definitely see the Gold Box engine games angle with what you posted.
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
By the way did Atlus USA ever explain what their reason was for the garbage changes to the character graphics in the US ver as had mentioned before with Mark and the Main character with the original localized US version? That still is the thing nightmares are made of.

Reminds me of how Capcom went and screwed up Sengoku Basara by taking it out of the Japanese setting and made up some total garbage with the first one. Well not that bad, but same general idea.
 

Voliko

Member
Interesting write-up, it definitely makes me want to check it out. I have listened to the soundtrack many times and "lurid dreamscape vibe" Is exactly what I think of to sum it up. It's great. That's mainly the reason why I didn't play the PSP version when it came out, because it didn't even have the option for the old music.
 

Valentus

Member
A Lone Prayer is the best battle theme of all the franchise by far.

................And thats it. Persona 3 and 4 have made Persona 1 aged horribly bad.
 

cafemomo

Member
By the way did Atlus USA ever explain what their reason was for the garbage changes to the character graphics in the US ver as had mentioned before with Mark and the Main character with the original localized US version?

They wanted it to appeal to the western crowd
 

kunonabi

Member
I agree completely. It's always been my favorite even though I think P2:EP is the better game in terms of polished mechanics and content.

I much prefer the story as well as it seemed much less generic than the main narratives from P3 and P4.

I also agree that Mark is better than Masao as the letter is just offensively stupid looking.

One of the main things I liked about it was just how dangerous it was just to move around. Nate's gun could kill your whole team if you were unlucky enough to come across gun reflecting enemies. It was just more strategic even with the borked formation system that did nothing but assure that Mark would continue to be useless. I thought the dungeons were just fine on their own and Deva Yuga is one location I'm not going to forget as long as I live considering how stupidly long I was stuck there.

And yes the original music was some absolutely phenomenal stuff.

It's still my favorite game of all time and at this point is unlikely to ever be unseated. It's the game that made me finally break down and buy PS and forged some of my longer lasting friendships.

It's a shame it gets shit on as much as it does.
 
I do appreciate OP's enthusiasm. Persona 1 isn't bad per se. A bit obtuse and needlessly convoluted perhaps, but accessible enough so that anyone who wants to play it should be able to.

That said, it is my least favorite SMT by a wide margin, for many of the same reasons OP loves it. I wonder why Soul Hackers aged so well and Revelations is so off-putting to people...
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
They wanted it to appeal to the western crowd

Like turning one character black and making the hair look like some intern with MS paint had to make quick n dirty is gonna make the western crowd think any differently.

Its like the reverse removal of a black character in Breath of Fire and he suddenly became white instead.

I remember it was due to stupid stuff like that which is why had always preferred to play the Japanese titles, as shit wasnt messed with.
 

PowderedToast

Junior Member
they really blew it with the psp remaster, dunno what meguro was thinking. the original OST is an integral part of the games appeal.

i prefer the P2 games as they fulfilled what the original set out to do, but i'm still quite fond of P1 - it's certainly not as bad as most would have you believe.
 
I still have not played the Snow Queen Quest. It's been 17 years; I probably should.

Here’s where I alienate the remaining people who might have been on board with me so far: if you ignore the loss of the Snow Queen Quest, a 20 hour alternate version of the story that takes place in a series of SMT:If... like towers, Revelations: Persona is actually the superior game. “Lunarvale,” a hodgepodge of America and Japan cobbled together by localizers attempting to mask the game’s origins, is actually more weird and interesting than the Mikage-cho that appears in Persona PSP. This bizarre mashup, combined with a nonsense translation attempt, somehow manages to better fit the lurid dreamscape vibe the original developers were going for.

"Lurid dreamscape" is coincidentally a pretty good phrase to sum up the entirety of "City 2 Accident" - the way it plays on the overworld map with those rainbow-tinged clouds eating away at your peripheral vision...

Anyway, I'm not sure how much of this I can really agree with since I haven't played the Japanese version, but I feel like if I ever go back and play P1 again I'd be more inclined to dig out my PSX copy rather than play it on the PSP. The soundtrack is definitely more sonically varied than Meguro's rework, and while the typo-ridden 90s translation is all kinds of ridiculous, I have to admit it does give the game a kind of humble charm. (Though I probably wouldn't say this if I hadn't played it so much when I was younger.) And there was something about the interface in the PSP version that I never liked. It was slick, sure, and relatively easy to navigate, certainly easier than the PSX version... but since the underlying gameplay wasn't changed, it felt mismatched.

You're spot on about the original's character themes. They're *so* good at instantly painting a picture of each of the protagonists. It's a crime that as far as I can recall, only Nanjo's was kept in the remake (and as a generic "conversation" BGM as opposed to a piece uniquely his). Although the PSP ver. did have the good sense to leave the lunacy of "Child Abuse" intact.
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Loved P1. Still haven't played the two P2 games though.

You need to play those, as they are pretty well done and improved on things slightly. Im currently considering repurchasing them digitally since want to try and finish Eternal Sin. Or more like just go through all 3 again in order, since can play on the Vita TV now instead of having to stare at the PSP screen.

A lot of fans seem to like the P2 EP / IS a lot more than the first game.

they really blew it with the psp remaster, dunno what meguro was thinking. the original OST is an integral part of the games appeal.

i prefer the P2 games as they fulfilled what the original set out to do, but i'm still quite fond of P1 - it's certainly not as bad as most would have you believe.

I remember that and was quite disappointed when had found out the music changed. I could have sworn they changed some of the monster sounds too.
 

Aeana

Member
Well, as you know, I've always been a pretty big fan of the game, for a lot of the reasons you state. There's something really special about the aesthetic and atmosphere in the games Atlus released during the 32-bit era, and it's really epitomized by both Persona 1 and Soul Hackers, in my opinion. The interfaces are a bit clunky and the systems obtuse, but if you can get past those things, they're really rare treasures.

Also,

Monochrome: School Revisited Dream-like, synthy, catchy, beautiful, quintessential Persona sound.

This is my jam.
 

Sophia

Member
I can't say much right now, as I'm busy. But I must give you major kudos for both mentioning Sophie's World, as well as Zhuangzi and Carl Jung's relevance in the series. Rarely are such topics given a mention even in the community thread, so to see someone randomly (pun not intended) bring them up is great.
 
I'm with you, Persona 1 is one of my favorites from the PSX era and I enjoyed playing it more back in 1996/7, then I did playing 3 in recent time (yet to play 4).

Also, Persona 1 and 2 art >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> P3 and P4.
 

randomkid

Member
"Lurid dreamscape" is coincidentally a pretty good phrase to sum up the entirety of "City 2 Accident" - the way it plays on the overworld map with those rainbow-tinged clouds eating away at your peripheral vision...

YES! Those eerie rainbow clouds, I really can't stress how much I appreciate the thoughtfulness of the game's commitment to building the right vibe.
 

Fandangox

Member
I really enjoyed the characters, and the atmosphere the game had. But map navigation was terrible even compared to the first Shin Megami Tensei, and battles weren't just as fun as later Persona games.

I liked it a lot when I played it, but the moment I played the sequel next I was shocked at just how much better it was in almost every area.
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
I can't say much right now, as I'm busy. But I must give you major kudos for both mentioning Sophie's World, as well as Zhuangzi and Carl Jung's relevance in the series. Rarely are such topics given a mention even in the community thread, so to see someone randomly (pun not intended) bring them up is great.

The creator of the series most def must have read stuff by Carl Jung. Since I wish I remembered the name of the exact book, but he writes about topics that totally fit in with the themes seen in the Persona series.

Am not familiar with Sophies World and Zhuangzi so will have to look those up.
 

Jucksalbe

Banned
The biggest fault in the game (I played the PSP version) is the battle system. It's just so damn boring and coupled with the high encounter rate, it justs makes the borderline unplayable to me. I pick it up from time to time to continue, but I never can play it for long.
I wanted to finish it before I start the P2 games, but I guess at this rate I'll never play them.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
I wish I had more time to add input or a post for this thread, but that was an excellent writeup. It encompassed a lot of what I liked about the game when I'd played it for the first time. This was in the era when I was trying to branch away from Squaresoft and Enix and wanted to try something new. Granted, I was playing a lot of PC games then, but being able to get introduced to new RPGs, and my older cousins trying to branch into SMT led me into watching them play through this as a kid, and then trying to play it myself. Granted, I'd played years after it was released here because it had taken me that long to branch out, but appreciated everything it did thematically and storytelling-wise. It was a very philosophical game and I probably wasn't able to 'get' everything until I'd done some reading on my own a few years later in high school. It may be more subtle than the approaches taken in other games that seemed to have been exploring Gnosticism and other types of philosophies and religion, but that's the kind of subtlety I adore. It's woven so cohesively into the game that it doesn't make the game fully about it, but it uses those themes to tell its own story, which you so eloquently addressed.

I love the dungeon design in this game. I like OG Phantasy Star, and a lot of older RPGs that take place in first-person, so Revelations: Persona feels like home for me. Lots of obstructions, connecting areas, individual placement, etc, and the dungeons just felt varied in some circumstances. The maps were good. Even just using various modern areas and trying to figure out to do with those in a regular dungeon context, much like older SMT games did, was something that Revelations: Persona seemed to excel at. I'd wax poetic about it more, but no time. :/

It's a good bridge between the SMT games and the Persona games. I couldn't say it any better myself: you said that it's much easier to see the SMT series' influence because of its themes, and various UI/area design. It sticks closer to that series than the newer Persona games do.

Also, yeah, the original soundtrack is so much better than the PSP version's. Much better.

...rather than actually playing games. Hence the problem.

The faster you tune them out the more games you can actually enjoy and not have to waste your time doing posts like this.
I need to find that Paper Mario pic. That's also something: I enjoy games a lot more when I just stay out of announcement threads and then come back and write my impressions in the OTs. Or it goes the other way, I can come up with my own conclusion that differs from a lot of people's because I'm assessing what I would like in a video game as opposed to trying to agree with everyone.

With that said, these are the kinds of threads we need lately. Threads about games. Or your educated passion about those games. And game design. I've missed this kind of stuff on GAF lately.

Good job, randomkid. :)

The creator of the series most def must have read stuff by Carl Jung. Since I wish I remembered the name of the exact book, but he writes about topics that totally fit in with the themes seen in the Persona series.

Am not familiar with Sophies World and Zhuangzi so will have to look those up.
Sophie's World is excellent. Read it if you ever get the chance.
 

Sophia

Member
The creator of the series most def must have read stuff by Carl Jung. Since I wish I remembered the name of the exact book, but he writes about topics that totally fit in with the themes seen in the Persona series.

Am not familiar with Sophies World and Zhuangzi so will have to look those up.

The butterfly dream by Zhuangzi serves as the basis for a lot of the series's philosophy, especially in Persona 1. You can see it should you start up any version of Persona 1, although the original English release for the PS1 mangles it.

It is particularly relevant regarding the non-human characters, such as Aigis and Teddie.

Once Zhuangzi dreamt he was a butterfly, a butterfly flitting and fluttering around, happy with himself and doing as he pleased. He didn't know he was Zhuangzi. Suddenly he woke up and there he was, solid and unmistakable Zhuangzi. But he didn't know if he was Zhuangzi who had dreamt he was a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming he was Zhuangzi. Between Zhuangzi and a butterfly there must be some distinction! This is called the Transformation of Things.

-----

The biggest fault in the game (I played the PSP version) is the battle system. It's just so damn boring and coupled with the high encounter rate, it justs makes the borderline unplayable to me. I pick it up from time to time to continue, but I never can play it for long.
I wanted to finish it before I start the P2 games, but I guess at this rate I'll never play them.

You can lower the encounter rate by finding a Persona with the skill Estoma. I personally don't even find the encounter rate that high, especially when you can talk your way out of every random encounter with relatively high degrees of success.
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
The biggest fault in the game (I played the PSP version) is the battle system. It's just so damn boring and coupled with the high encounter rate, it justs makes the borderline unplayable to me. I pick it up from time to time to continue, but I never can play it for long.
I wanted to finish it before I start the P2 games, but I guess at this rate I'll never play them.

Truthfully back then a lot of JRPGs had insane encounter rates. Having played a ton of them I figured thats why I was pretty numb to it overall lol.

But compared to titles these days yeah, I can imagine people are going to freak out.
 

Jucksalbe

Banned
Truthfully back then a lot of JRPGs had insane encounter rates. Having played a ton of them I figured thats why I was pretty numb to it overall lol.

I don't have a problem with high encounter rates, but when the battles aren't fun, you just don't want them to happen so often.
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
The butterfly dream by Zhuangzi serves as the basis for a lot of the series's philosophy, especially in Persona 1. You can see it should you start up any version of Persona 1, although the original English release for the PS1 mangles it.

It is particularly relevant regarding the non-human characters, such as Aigis and Teddie.

Now that you put that quote down I do remember it. Im trying to remember from where though, must have been literature class.

The whole Shadow stuff Jung goes into really was the strongest in P4 I think. Man I do want to go back and play the originals now... though buying everything I calculated costs 17250 JPY for P1 - P2 IS / EP - P4G. D: Already got P3P. The dumb thing is I have all the physical copies as is.

Hmm I should use my other Vita turn it to US region then just get the US versions as I heard they are on sale now?

I don't have a problem with high encounter rates, but when the battles aren't fun, you just don't want them to happen so often.

I still remember my very first battle on the JP PS1 version. I decided to shoot the gaki with my SMG the main character had, shot reflected and died instantly. Hilarious. Will never forget that. Yeah you have a point too and another problem that compounds with things is that now most of us are all working adults, its not like when we were young and had a ton of time to mess with these sorts of games. Therefore when it seems like time is wasted by such mechanics and whatnots it becomes an irritation as to eats into our schedule or we just basically are not able to proceed as much as we would like to.
 

Phatmac

Member
It probably isn't a good comparison but I've been really enjoying Soul Hackers for some of the same reasons that you've stated. It's refreshing to play an older game that just has so much going for it.
 

Aeana

Member
It probably isn't a good comparison but I've been really enjoying Soul Hackers for some of the same reasons that you've stated. It's refreshing to play an older game that just has so much going for it.

The comparison is fine. Soul Hackers is another game that came out of this era of Atlus, and they share quite a bit.
 

Jucksalbe

Banned
You can lower the encounter rate by finding a Persona with the skill Estoma. I personally don't even find the encounter rate that high, especially when you can talk your way out of every random encounter with relatively high degrees of success.

How does that affect my party level, though? Will I be severely underleved if I use it too often?
Oh, that reminds me, this game had some strange way to distribute experience anyway. It's been a while since I played last, but I don't think I ever really understood how it works.
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
It probably isn't a good comparison but I've been really enjoying Soul Hackers for some of the same reasons that you've stated. It's refreshing to play an older game that just has so much going for it.

Truthfully Id have to say that whole era for Atlus was some of its best stuff. The PS1 / PS2 / Sega Saturn and even the odd Dreamcast titles.
 

EMT0

Banned
Probably a bit against the fold of what you said but I'm enjoying Persona PSP. While I certainly don't like the battle system, I find it passable. I checked the original soundtrack....and Persona PSP kills it. I've seen the translation changes....and there is no defending the horrible translation and changes to the characters IMO.

Also, the characters in Persona 1 beat the characters in Persona 3 hands down by a country mile.
 
If nothing else, this thread is an excellent reminder to listen to more of Hidehito Aoki's work. Depressing to think he passed away at such a young age.

I agree with your sentiment, though. I think the game gets a lot of flack for how it's aged and the original translation, but it really just stuck with me when I played it. If Soul Hackers is similar, then I really should pick that up soon.
 

kunonabi

Member
I really enjoyed the characters, and the atmosphere the game had. But map navigation was terrible even compared to the first Shin Megami Tensei, and battles weren't just as fun as later Persona games.

I liked it a lot when I played it, but the moment I played the sequel next I was shocked at just how much better it was in almost every area.

I found the P3 and P4 battles much more boring since they really don't require any strategy outside of the optional fights.
 

lonely

Member
That is a lovely box. Been trying to decide whether to pick up the PSP remake recently but now I think I will definitely will. Thanks OP!
 

Sophia

Member
How does that affect my party level, though? Will I be severely underleved if I use it too often?
Oh, that reminds me, this game had some strange way to distribute experience anyway. It's been a while since I played last, but I don't think I ever really understood how it works.

Seeing as both of those questions are related, I'll answer them at once.

Experience in the original Persona (in the PS1 and PSP versions at any rate) is distrusted by efficient actions taken during battle. Characters that do no damage and heal no party members get little to no experience. If someone's level is too low, you can pretty easily power level them by having everyone else stop actions in battle that contribute directly to damage or healing. (I.E. just have them use support skills.)
 

Steel

Banned
For it's time Persona 1 was great. In the context of even Persona 2 though, it's unpolished. Persona 2(granted the psp version ruined the difficulty and encounter rate) takes 1's negotiation mechanics, exploration, among other things and makes it much better. I actually liked the fact that your choice of party members was absolutely permanent. I like those kind of choices in games(Escape Velocity and Star Control are my favorite examples) and games nowadays really don't have the balls to do it.

The Music is subjective, but Persona 1's music was, for the most part, obnoxious to me. I also agree that a cast for a game need not be the type of people that you'd like to know in real life.

On the dungeon design portion, the layout and traps, etc. is nothing to complain about considering current persona fans are getting procedural generated content, however as stated above, it's how the dungeons are explored that annoys me(Which is funny, because first person dungeon crawling doesn't generally turn me off).

As for whether or not you think it should be in the RPG-canon, characters from 1 are in 2(even though a certain ending makes things fuzzy, EP still has a couple persona 1 characters), and characters from both are mentioned in the news on the tv at the dorm in persona 3(not to mention Igor and indirectly Philemon are carried throughout). Persona 1 and 2 were directly connected, but 3 only hinted that 2 and 1 existed. 4 only had a cameo moment of 3. 1 and 2 are in the canon, it's just the canon is not important for anything but spinoffs as far as persona is concerned.

All that being said, while Persona 1 is far from my favorite one, I can understand why you would like it. Doesn't change my opinion of it though.
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
I wish I had more time to add input or a post for this thread, but that was an excellent writeup. It encompassed a lot of what I liked about the game when I'd played it for the first time. This was in the era when I was trying to branch away from Squaresoft and Enix and wanted to try something new. Granted, I was playing a lot of PC games then, but being able to get introduced to new RPGs, and my older cousins trying to branch into SMT led me into watching them play through this as a kid, and then trying to play it myself. Granted, I'd played years after it was released here because it had taken me that long to branch out, but appreciated everything it did thematically and storytelling-wise. It was a very philosophical game and I probably wasn't able to 'get' everything until I'd done some reading on my own a few years later in high school. It may be more subtle than the approaches taken in other games that seemed to have been exploring Gnosticism and other types of philosophies and religion, but that's the kind of subtlety I adore. It's woven so cohesively into the game that it doesn't make the game fully about it, but it uses those themes to tell its own story, which you so eloquently addressed.

I love the dungeon design in this game. I like OG Phantasy Star, and a lot of older RPGs that take place in first-person, so Revelations: Persona feels like home for me. Lots of obstructions, connecting areas, individual placement, etc, and the dungeons just felt varied in some circumstances. The maps were good. Even just using various modern areas and trying to figure out to do with those in a regular dungeon context, much like older SMT games did, was something that Revelations: Persona seemed to excel at. I'd wax poetic about it more, but no time. :/

It's a good bridge between the SMT games and the Persona games. I couldn't say it any better myself: you said that it's much easier to see the SMT series' influence because of its themes, and various UI/area design. It sticks closer to that series than the newer Persona games do.

Also, yeah, the original soundtrack is so much better than the PSP version's. Much better.


I need to find that Paper Mario pic. That's also something: I enjoy games a lot more when I just stay out of announcement threads and then come back and write my impressions in the OTs. Or it goes the other way, I can come up with my own conclusion that differs from a lot of people's because I'm assessing what I would like in a video game as opposed to trying to agree with everyone.

With that said, these are the kinds of threads we need lately. Threads about games. Or your educated passion about those games. And game design. I've missed this kind of stuff on GAF lately.

Good job, randomkid. :)


Sophie's World is excellent. Read it if you ever get the chance.

Ill check the book out thanks! Since will be away visiting family will have a lot of downtime to read. Hopefully there will be a kindle version.

The Jung book was called "The Undiscovered Self" I think that had a lot of content which was relevant to the persona series. Had to poke around and check to remember it. Had a long talk about that with someone at work once, since he was the one who had initially brought up the topic of connecting the two. As I was not familiar with Carl Jung at the time. Need to read that book again, since it was years ago.

I was thinking of getting P2 on PSN on my Vita. Is it worth it?

Id suggest watching some YT vids of it first. To see if you like what you see with the battle system / gameplay mechanics and what not. If so then am sure you would enjoy it as the story and characters are pretty solid. Plus a lot of OG Persona fans do like the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywZpN9BpmCU

Lots of other vids out there. Just posted at least one example for you.
 

randomkid

Member
I can't wait to get back to Soul Hackers, I was really enjoying it before I had to pause for SMT4. Between Eternal Punishment and those games and even Maken Shao, Atlus has been very good about repping its various eras this year.
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
Persona 1 isn't a bad game per-say... it's just aged REALLY poorly compared to the other Persona (2) at the time. It's systems are obtuse (I still don't get what the point of moving my party around manually is supposed to do) and the main story (NOT THE SIDEQUEST) is completely... not... there. You get pieces of story for like every 2-5 hours of dungeon crawl. It's very... dripping... compared to the "story a minute" nature Persona 2 on took.
 

Jucksalbe

Banned
Seeing as both of those questions are related, I'll answer them at once.

Experience in the original Persona (in the PS1 and PSP versions at any rate) is distrusted by efficient actions taken during battle. Characters that do no damage and heal no party members get little to no experience. If someone's level is too low, you can pretty easily power level them by having everyone else stop actions in battle that contribute directly to damage or healing. (I.E. just have them use support skills.)

And I guess my Persona only gets experience if I use magic attacks?
Hmm...maybe I should give it another try, but I feel like I should really finally finish SMT IV first...
 
What a coincidence. Started playing this last night (PSP version on my Vita) and was really enjoying it. If you know what you're in for with this game, it really has a lot to offer. The story is all there, you just have to play Persona with a different presentation and game style that you're used to. Like I said, I'm really having fun with it.

edit: Though I admit I'm still early in the game. Maybe the story peters out.
 

randomkid

Member
As for whether or not you think it should be in the RPG-canon, characters from 1 are in 2(even though a certain ending makes things fuzzy, EP still has a couple persona 1 characters), and characters from both are mentioned in the news on the tv at the dorm in persona 3(not to mention Igor and indirectly Philemon are carried throughout). Persona 1 and 2 were directly connected, but 3 only hinted that 2 and 1 existed. 4 only had a cameo moment of 3. 1 and 2 are in the canon, it's just the canon is not important for anything but spinoffs as far as persona is concerned.

Oh my god this is not at all what I meant by canon and now I really regret using the word haha
 
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