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My lengthy defense of the most hated Persona game
- Thread starter randomkid
- Start date
encephalon
Member
It's more or less fine for the dungeons to be "labyrinthine," but they just don't seem to have very much thought nor effort put into them.
cj_iwakura
Member
I thought Deva Yuga was pretty well thought out. It's just not very fun.
Paracelsus
Member
I'd like to see a review of yours tearing Persona 4 apart. I really would.
All right, I'm back home so now I can respond properly. Can I say how excited I am that this thread keeps getting bumped????
It really is the jam, nothing out there like it!
The game really is one-of-a-kind I think, both Persona 2s and Soul Hackers come from the same Atlus era so there are similarities, and SMT1 (recently released on iOS!) and SMT3 (released today on PSN!) have vaguely similar uncanny dream-like elements and disaster + hospital dungeon beginnings, but I can't quite think of much else that's like the very first Persona.
I mean, it's not a competition. I actually think Persona 4 is fine for what it is, it's going for something completely different after all.
It really is the jam, nothing out there like it!
The game really is one-of-a-kind I think, both Persona 2s and Soul Hackers come from the same Atlus era so there are similarities, and SMT1 (recently released on iOS!) and SMT3 (released today on PSN!) have vaguely similar uncanny dream-like elements and disaster + hospital dungeon beginnings, but I can't quite think of much else that's like the very first Persona.
I mean, it's not a competition. I actually think Persona 4 is fine for what it is, it's going for something completely different after all.
Hecatonchires Custom
Member
I really liked Persona 1 and thought it was much better than Persona 3 (which was a tremendous letdown for me).
Both PSX Personas have much more in common with Shin Megami Tensei than the PS2 iterations. 1 and 2 (1 especially) have that oppressive atmosphere and a sense of dread that were sadly discarded in the more recent games in favor of happy go lucky anime bs.
Admittedly, the map in the original version was a confusing, unworkable mess and the translation was pretty shoddy, but it's still a good game.
Both PSX Personas have much more in common with Shin Megami Tensei than the PS2 iterations. 1 and 2 (1 especially) have that oppressive atmosphere and a sense of dread that were sadly discarded in the more recent games in favor of happy go lucky anime bs.
Admittedly, the map in the original version was a confusing, unworkable mess and the translation was pretty shoddy, but it's still a good game.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. I miss the days of Kazuma Kaneko x Cozy Okada working on MegaTen games...
Hopefully Kaneko will do another Raidou game one day! The key art he did for the Raidou novel is hnnnggghhhh worthy <3
charlequin
Banned
C'mon. I'm all in favor of people singing the underappreciated praises of the earlier Persona games, but you don't need to stoop to the level of the people who talk shit about them in response.
At a certain level the Megaten series has expanded and diversified a lot in the time since Revelations: Persona, and the parts of the core formula that P3/P4 emphasize are totally different than what's emphasized in Devil Survivor or DDS or Raidou, and that's okay.
Yeah, the exact mix of elements is honestly kind of unusual. I'm having trouble putting my finger on what exactly it is that puts it aside from, say, P2, though.
1st person dungeons and that polygon world map, positional battle elements, a plot that's less manic, portrait art by Kaneko and not Soejima-interpreted Kaneko, that's some of what I'd use to distinguish the games even though P2 obviously builds on the foundation.
And "Lunarvale" really is this accidentally wonderful thing that doesn't meaningfully exist in later games in the series or the games of today, Phoenix Wright jokes aside.
I'm not going to lie, I saw the thread title and expected to see you're the OP.
perfect free
Member
I was gonna say something about P1's cast in particularprecocious teenagers that don't have that typical "JRPG protagonist" feel, lighthearted bickering between party members mixed with more serious overtones, self-discovery and acceptancebut obviously P2 does all of that and more (to say nothing of the later games). Any differences I'm imagining between PSX P1 and Innocent Sin are probably down to the localizations being so divergent.
Maybe it's just that P1 was a rough-edged game: the end-of-an-era first-person dungeons don't really gel with that charmingly awful 3D world map, and both elements were sanded down quite a bit for P2. Persona management, particularly the arcana compatibility and the game actually letting you equip Personas you couldn't use, was a little clunky, and the positional battle system really just gets in the way, tbh. (Hey Mark let me put you somewhere that's not front and centeroops, now your physical attacks are useless lol.)
I guess it really is down to Lunarvale, isn't it? (Man, I'm really not saying anything randomkid didn't already say.) P2 pulls back the camera a little bit and gives you a bigger city to save, plus there's a wider scope to the catastrophe that unfolds at the end of the game when (major Innocent Sin end-game spoilers)
Maya dies and the entire world save Xibalba is destroyed
yeah so I know it's gauche to bump your own thread, but whatever, Persona World Guidance arrived last month and I'm finally through reading it. Have some crappy pics!
First off, proof that Japan recognizes who the real Mark is.
No one will ever beat Kaneko.
I completely forgot about female Jack Frosts.
And finally, 100% official English canon translated lyrics to everyone's favorite pharmacy music, which we'll all now refer to as the "rocal drag store."
There's also some good stuff on Persona 2 of course, but someone will have to make another appropriate lengthy defense thread for me to post those in. In any case, good lookin out Akselziys cuz this book was just what I needed! You guys can get one for yourself here, the same dude sent me mine in perfect condition so give it a shot if you want.
First off, proof that Japan recognizes who the real Mark is.
No one will ever beat Kaneko.
I completely forgot about female Jack Frosts.
And finally, 100% official English canon translated lyrics to everyone's favorite pharmacy music, which we'll all now refer to as the "rocal drag store."
There's also some good stuff on Persona 2 of course, but someone will have to make another appropriate lengthy defense thread for me to post those in. In any case, good lookin out Akselziys cuz this book was just what I needed! You guys can get one for yourself here, the same dude sent me mine in perfect condition so give it a shot if you want.
Glad you finally have been exposed to the greatness that is Persona World Guidance
It's one of my favorite art/source books
Original Persona trilogy (P1/P2IS/P2EP) FTW!
charlequin
Banned
Sounds like volunteering to me!
cj_iwakura
Member
It both amazes and scares me how reviled P2 is here.
bishopcruz
Member
Very much this, which is a shame considering how great the story is between the two.
cj_iwakura
Member
P1 gets hate everywhere, I've accepted that, but I've never seen P2 get spat on as much as it has here. Heck, P1 seems 'okay' by comparison, you'd think P2 was like playing Chaos Wars or something.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
People are bad and should feel bad. That's the way I look at it.
charlequin
Banned
This does not match my experience at all.
chrominance
Member
Wait, what? I must not have been paying attention, because I thought P2 had a pretty good reputation on GAF (especially whenever some P3/P4-universe stuff gets brought up and people go "stupid Atlus continuing to ignore anything before P3"). P1 always seems to be the game everyone writes off (too quickly imo) as way too old and not worth playing.
P2 sometimes gets tried out by newcomers because it's usually recommended for "story" or "characters" and then a certain kind of fan will react negatively and loudly to the other elements. P1 is just dismissed entirely since it never gets recommended for those reasons. Apathy is always the opposite of love!
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I've only ever heard people crap on this game, and it always scared me off to go play something else on my backlog. Though now, I think I'll definitely give it a shot per your rec OP.
IrishNinja
Member
starved for JRPGs early in the 32 bit era, i bought Revelations & dug the somewhat oppressive atmosphere & urban setting, but ran into a brick wall at some point - i forget exactly when - because as i now know, i was absolutely playing it wrong & treating it like the square era RPG's i'd played prior. i regret having traded it in, but i recall using the credit towards Suikoden, which i recall coming out somewhat around the same time & i loved that game to death.
still, like most newjacks i ran through & adored P3 & 4, but went back to finish SMT 3 and have genuinely wondered what i missed out on, here and with 2 as well. it sounds like the PSX originals are still the ones to play, so onto the list they go.
see, i recall feeling this way too, but looking back the gameplay was no worse than the usual mash x to grind through standard anyway. i just had no idea at all what to do with talking to demons/etc and past the manual (i had no internet back then) i didn't see any other resources, never once saw the guide back then either.
i mean if i'dve even known someone else who'd played it i could've made it work, but alas.
still, like most newjacks i ran through & adored P3 & 4, but went back to finish SMT 3 and have genuinely wondered what i missed out on, here and with 2 as well. it sounds like the PSX originals are still the ones to play, so onto the list they go.
see, i recall feeling this way too, but looking back the gameplay was no worse than the usual mash x to grind through standard anyway. i just had no idea at all what to do with talking to demons/etc and past the manual (i had no internet back then) i didn't see any other resources, never once saw the guide back then either.
i mean if i'dve even known someone else who'd played it i could've made it work, but alas.
I think you've got the right mindset for it, hope you enjoy if you ever get the chance to play. I don't want to crap too much on the PSP version, the new localization is really excellent for what it is, the Snow Queen Quest is wonderful to have and there are some quality of life improvements. It's just much of what makes the original game so special is removed, so my case for the game is always going to rely on Revelations: Persona even if most would disagree.
buddha0991
Member
Yea, sorry man. I loved Revelations: Persona, and it was my very first one all those years ago, but the sound effects missing and the music changes and a few other things aren't worth recommending people deal with that completely archaic menu system and that god awful overworld. AND THAT TERRIBLE ENG TRANSLATION wow man. PSP > PS1. I respect your opinion though!
NinjamicWZ
Banned
I've never played the remake.
I hated the load times and relentless frequency of very slow, sometimes brutal random battles, and dungeon crawling gave me a headache back then. After a certain point I was always on the verge of death, lost, and too low on magic or recovery items to grind my way out to anything.
...but in 1995 I liked the idea of playing as japanese high school students, battling demons, a parallel world and I particularly enjoyed the admittedly simplistic city that you could walk around in and visit different locations, such as convenience stores. I liked the kind of grim and intimidating mood it had.
I never finished it, sadly. I also have never played either parts of Persona 2 :/
Maybe I'll pick them up the next time they're on sale on PSN.
I hated the load times and relentless frequency of very slow, sometimes brutal random battles, and dungeon crawling gave me a headache back then. After a certain point I was always on the verge of death, lost, and too low on magic or recovery items to grind my way out to anything.
...but in 1995 I liked the idea of playing as japanese high school students, battling demons, a parallel world and I particularly enjoyed the admittedly simplistic city that you could walk around in and visit different locations, such as convenience stores. I liked the kind of grim and intimidating mood it had.
I never finished it, sadly. I also have never played either parts of Persona 2 :/
Maybe I'll pick them up the next time they're on sale on PSN.
I want to play this game because the other games Tadashi Satomi wrote for Atlus (P2IS/EP, DDS1,2) are among the best stories they released. I have the PSP version, played it a bit on Vita but stopped when the game froze on me mid dungeon.
What stops me from playing most of the RPGs I have and want to play is that they tend to be so time consuming. The Persona and DDS games I played were among the longer ones I played too.
What I really appreciated from what little I played is what you also mention, OP, the complex negotiation system. My first Atlus games I played (and beat) in the following order:
SMT3 Nocturne, MT2 (Kyuuyaku version), SMT1 (PS version), Persona 2 IS, DDS1, 2, Persona 2 EP, and so on.
So when I played my first Persona what immediately stood out was the complex negotiation system. Compared to P2IS Nocturne felt like a huge step back. P2EP also was simplified compared to IS but was still more complex than practically all mainline SMTs.
I should have guessed by the tendency evident in IS to EP but P1 really has the most in depth negotiation system of them all. So of what I played I liked P1.
What stops me from playing most of the RPGs I have and want to play is that they tend to be so time consuming. The Persona and DDS games I played were among the longer ones I played too.
What I really appreciated from what little I played is what you also mention, OP, the complex negotiation system. My first Atlus games I played (and beat) in the following order:
SMT3 Nocturne, MT2 (Kyuuyaku version), SMT1 (PS version), Persona 2 IS, DDS1, 2, Persona 2 EP, and so on.
So when I played my first Persona what immediately stood out was the complex negotiation system. Compared to P2IS Nocturne felt like a huge step back. P2EP also was simplified compared to IS but was still more complex than practically all mainline SMTs.
I should have guessed by the tendency evident in IS to EP but P1 really has the most in depth negotiation system of them all. So of what I played I liked P1.
Ugh, doesn't ship to my country. Ah well.
You're the first person I've seen praise P1/IS' (and EP as well, partially) negotiation system! It's usually extremely hated, and for valid reasons. Personally, I don't mind it, but I don't think it's as well made and thought out as the negotiation systems in the mainline games.
Weltall Zero
Member
I got Persona back in the early PSX days, and I found plenty to love in it: the unique, modern, occultism setting, demon negotiation, personas themselves, etc. Eventually I gave up on the game due to frustration with dungeons that can go an hour or two without saving and where you can and will often get wiped out by instadeath magic.
cj_iwakura
Member
Mostly the community thread, P2 doesn't get much love there. The OTs were barren, too.
Yay, guess I'm not the only one who thinks that. Played the games in order and couldn't stand Persona 3 because of that emo, appeal-to-teenager bs. 1, Tsumi and Batsu are so much different from this. Also, after P3, I didn't even bother trying P4 since they appeared to go with that new direction. It's saddening.
buddha pls, u need to lvl up ur slink with the op cuz ur readin but not digestin what im sayin bout "a few other things" （；¬＿¬) （；¬＿¬) （；¬＿¬)
also what's wrong with the menus? we're not talking about a P2:EP situation here, I thought they were snappy and perfectly fine.
Pretty nice book. It reminds me of the P2 Tsumi and P2 Batsu Master Guides that I have style wise. I guess it's too be expected since all 3 are CB's Project books. Might have to eventually get this one too. Thanks for posting this. I had no idea it even existed.
cj_iwakura
Member
Well, only if you want to play the hardest version...
I felt and thought the exact same way as you, ironically enough haha