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NeoGAF's Essential RPGs - 2013 edition - Top 100 results posted

JimPanzer

Member
dat hyperbole...

no, really! I've been trying out games left and right, but can't find anything which catches me like dark souls did. I wish I could find a game which does.

I'm probably just gonna start a NG+ max s.link run in persona 4 or finally start playing FF Tactics.
 

Rafterman

Banned
Man, I knew that GAF was a console/jRPG leaning site, but not a single Wizardry game on that list? Wizardy 8 alone is better than the vast majority on this list.

Bad GAF!
 

Shikamaru Ninja

任天堂 の 忍者
I can't believe Chrono Cross came in at 47. I'm a huge Persona fan but because of the older series before the art style got chibi'd and GAF started wanking over them.

Persona Revelations, Persona 2: Innocent Sin, Persona 2: Eternal Punishment. Those were f****** cool games.
 

Griss

Member
I really don't get how Persona 4, Fallout 3 and Demon's Souls can all be on the same list. The gameplay in these games is so different that surely they're different genres? You couldn't just hand someone the top 20 games here and say 'if you like RPGs you'll like these' because most of them have literally nothing in common.

What is it that defines an RPG? Almost every game nowadays has RPG levelling systems. Fallout 3 is closer to me to Metroid Prime than it is to Persona 4. Mass Effect is quite clearly a TPS. The way you interact with the game world should surely be the defining characteristic of game genre, no? Just confuses the hell out of me to see people comparing and listing games that I would never put together mentally at all. If the RPG genre is truly this broad then I'd argue that it means nothing at all, really.

And if we're taking all of those games into account then having Persona 4 at number 2 is completely ridiculous. Adding a pinch of waifu to a mediocre game design obviously goes a long way in capturing gamers' hearts.
 
And if we're taking all of those games into account then having Persona 4 at number 2 is completely ridiculous. Adding a pinch of waifu to a mediocre game design obviously goes a long way in capturing gamers' hearts.

NnoGhN1.gif
 

Derrick01

Banned
That fallout 3/new vegas vote still upsets me. We can't have a thread dedicated to RPGs supposedly by people who know RPGs and yet vote a game that's worse in literally every RPG aspect several spots higher.
 
I really don't get how Persona 4, Fallout 3 and Demon's Souls can all be on the same list. The gameplay in these games is so different that surely they're different genres? You couldn't just hand someone the top 20 games here and say 'if you like RPGs you'll like these' because most of them have literally nothing in common.

What is it that defines an RPG? Almost every game nowadays has RPG levelling systems. Fallout 3 is closer to me to Metroid Prime than it is to Persona 4. Mass Effect is quite clearly a TPS. The way you interact with the game world should surely be the defining characteristic of game genre, no? Just confuses the hell out of me to see people comparing and listing games that I would never put together mentally at all. If the RPG genre is truly this broad then I'd argue that it means nothing at all, really.

And if we're taking all of those games into account then having Persona 4 at number 2 is completely ridiculous. Adding a pinch of waifu to a mediocre game design obviously goes a long way in capturing gamers' hearts.

As was pointed out many times in the thread, the voting mechanism takes care of the labeling problem. If a lot of people don't consider game X an RPG, then it won't get many votes and won't show up on this list of essential RPGs. It may not be easy to develop a perfect definition of the genre, and there are always going to be border disputes, but I would suggest that reading through the ballots, it's pretty clear that there is a shared intuition about which games are RPGs and which are not.
 

DMiz

Member
I'm surprised that Grandia dropped as far as it did. I guess it really goes to show that, without a game to really keep the series alive, and with a legacy that isn't as well-loved, you really can't maintain mindspace.

Of course, that just makes me really wish that more developers started developing clones of that god-like battle system.
 

hemtae

Member
That fallout 3/new vegas vote still upsets me. We can't have a thread dedicated to RPGs supposedly by people who know RPGs and yet vote a game that's worse in literally every RPG aspect several spots higher.

New Vegas, Fallout 2 and Fallout 1 probably split the vote while Fallout 3 was unopposed.
 
That fallout 3/new vegas vote still upsets me. We can't have a thread dedicated to RPGs supposedly by people who know RPGs and yet vote a game that's worse in literally every RPG aspect several spots higher.

I don't like the way that one shook out either, but I think we'll have to accept that the category of "people who know RPGs" (if that's what we call GAF) includes sub-groups with very different tastes, and people can be serious RPG fans while valuing very different things. If I can't think of a single thing FO3 did better than NV (and I find the standard arguments in its favor unpersuasive), well, that explains why it didn't make my list.

Also I admit that I didn't get around to playing NV until the past year, so I didn't exactly help the cause.
 

Griss

Member
As was pointed out many times in the thread, the voting mechanism takes care of the labeling problem. If a lot of people don't consider game X an RPG, then it won't get many votes and won't show up on this list of essential RPGs. It may not be easy to develop a perfect definition of the genre, and there are always going to be border disputes, but I would suggest that reading through the ballots, it's pretty clear that there is a shared intuition about which games are RPGs and which are not.

I apologise for not reading the entire thread - it seemed clear after the first few pages that it was going to be just lists of games and discussion of their merits. So I must have missed any discussion on what constitutes an RPG. Thought it should be in the OP, to be honest.

Now I'm going to have to figure out my own definition of RPG so I can know what to vote for! Xenoblade will probably be at the top.
 
A bit disappointed that EarthBound didn't make the top 20 at least. The game really needs more love sometimes; all too often it gets a bad rap for being archaic even though it did a lot of original things in its time - for gameplay even.
 

Soriku

Junior Member
I really don't get how Persona 4, Fallout 3 and Demon's Souls can all be on the same list. The gameplay in these games is so different that surely they're different genres? You couldn't just hand someone the top 20 games here and say 'if you like RPGs you'll like these' because most of them have literally nothing in common.

What is it that defines an RPG? Almost every game nowadays has RPG levelling systems. Fallout 3 is closer to me to Metroid Prime than it is to Persona 4. Mass Effect is quite clearly a TPS. The way you interact with the game world should surely be the defining characteristic of game genre, no? Just confuses the hell out of me to see people comparing and listing games that I would never put together mentally at all. If the RPG genre is truly this broad then I'd argue that it means nothing at all, really.

And if we're taking all of those games into account then having Persona 4 at number 2 is completely ridiculous. Adding a pinch of waifu to a mediocre game design obviously goes a long way in capturing gamers' hearts.

RPG is a diverse genre dawg. Of course that's why we label them into subcategories like action RPGs, strategy RPGs, turn based RPGs, etc.
 

Zinthar

Member
The problem with doing lists based on random lists people post is that you end up with overall results that display a strong bias towards specific types of RPG's. In this case, it's pretty clear that there's an extremely strong bias towards JRPG's over WRPG's.

At least a list put together by a group of editors at some site would have looked over what they did and noticed the bias and then come up with something halfway credible. GAF has no business complaining about any of those 'top games' lists.
 
A bit disappointed that EarthBound didn't make the top 20 at least. The game really needs more love sometimes; all too often it gets a bad rap for being archaic even though it did a lot of original things in its time - for gameplay even.
Well if we are doing a 2014 edition, I'd think it would be in the Top 20, now that it is on VC and more people have played it.
 

denx

Member
How come Fallout 3 is above New Vegas and way above 1 and 2. What is this nonsense.

Also no System Shock 2, (nvm) and Wizardry 8.

Btw, I don't remember seeing any Might & Magic and Ultima Underworld game either.

962.gif


IM DISAPPOINT IN THIS SHAMEFUR DISPRAY GAF.

At least Chrono Trigger is n°1 so not all is bad.
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
Also no System Shock 2, Ultima 7 and Wizardry 8.
I voted for Ultima 7. D:

I don't think I'll participate this year. These lists are hard to come up with as-is, even though I do think my list is going to have a slight shake-up because there are a few games I'd replace on it. Though if kswiston needs help with the OP again this year in the same capacity, I won't mind pitching in.
 
The problem with doing lists based on random lists people post is that you end up with overall results that display a strong bias towards specific types of RPG's. In this case, it's pretty clear that there's an extremely strong bias towards JRPG's over WRPG's.

At least a list put together by a group of editors at some site would have looked over what they did and noticed the bias and then come up with something halfway credible. GAF has no business complaining about any of those 'top games' lists.

....what?
 

Yanksfan

Member
Huh, I haven't come across the previous iterations of this thread before, but I have to say that this may be the best OP I have ever seen. Well done.
 
The problem with doing lists based on random lists people post is that you end up with overall results that display a strong bias towards specific types of RPG's. In this case, it's pretty clear that there's an extremely strong bias towards JRPG's over WRPG's.

At least a list put together by a group of editors at some site would have looked over what they did and noticed the bias and then come up with something halfway credible. GAF has no business complaining about any of those 'top games' lists.

1. There is nothing inherently problematic about certain types of RPGs ranking higher, on average, than other types.

2. To the extent the relative rankings are a product of GAF members simply not playing classic wRPGs, it's only a problem if the goal of the list is to create a credible best-ever list. If, on the other hand, the goal is "to help people find great games that they might not have heard of previously, and to remind people of the classics they never got around to playing," as it says in the OP, then the relative ranking shouldn't matter too much, and any bias in the voting population is likely to be reflected in the readership.

There were some calls last year for a different kind of list--one curated by a smaller subset of RPG GAF. I have no idea how such a list would be put together, and I don't think that project plays to GAF's strengths. But I'd be surprised if there weren't some Gaffers willing to give it a try.

I don't think I'll participate this year. These lists are hard to come up with as-is, even though I do think my list is going to have a slight shake-up because there are a few games I'd replace on it. Though if kswiston needs help with the OP again this year in the same capacity, I won't mind pitching in.

I think it's a daunting task to try to explain over and over again why a particular game is one of the best ever. This year I'm either going to focus on one mechanic per game or else use some other gimmick (like limiting my comments to three sentences per game) to make writing my post a different experience. Of course, I also expect major changes on my ballot, which keeps things interesting. Supposing the thread is even happening this year, I hope you'll at least post an unadorned list. I got lots of good recommendations from last year's version, so I'd be sad to see a participant with an unusually diverse ballot drop out.
 

Zinthar

Member
1. There is nothing inherently problematic about certain types of RPGs ranking higher, on average, than other types.

Nothing more than asking a Call of Duty forum for a list of their favorite shooters. Obviously that's a more extreme example, but this list serves more to display GAF bias than it does to inform people about what RPG's they should try. It should be treated with a grain of salt.
 
Lookit all the people who didn't vote complain about how the vote went.

I voted for Ultima 7. D:

I don't think I'll participate this year. These lists are hard to come up with as-is, even though I do think my list is going to have a slight shake-up because there are a few games I'd replace on it. Though if kswiston needs help with the OP again this year in the same capacity, I won't mind pitching in.

I copy-pastaed most of mine with purty pictures and more also-rans from the 2012 vote. I feel they're classics and nothings changed that.

Paging kswiston!

I think we're overdue for a 2014 vote.

doitnow.gif

He's mentioned it's a lot of work. ALOT of work, and that may sabotage a list this year.
 

aravuus

Member
Nothing more than asking a Call of Duty forum for a list of their favorite shooters. Obviously that's a more extreme example, but this list serves more to display GAF bias than it does to inform people about what RPG's they should try. It should be treated with a grain of salt.

Well the thread name literally says "NeoGAF's", so...
 
I love this thread, this year I've finally played earthbound and I loved it. It's top 10 material.

Also several other rpg's are on my wish list due to these results.
 

Arthea

Member
Persona 4 at second place? That doesn't make any sense to me, any at all.
And Suikoden 2 is too low. Overall it's not a bad list.
 

BlackJace

Member
Nothing more than asking a Call of Duty forum for a list of their favorite shooters. Obviously that's a more extreme example, but this list serves more to display GAF bias than it does to inform people about what RPG's they should try. It should be treated with a grain of salt.

Why does it bother you lol? It just so happens that the top rated ones are JRPGs. Get over it and stop generalizing GAF ad a whole please.
 
The problem with doing lists based on random lists people post is that you end up with overall results that display a strong bias towards specific types of RPG's. In this case, it's pretty clear that there's an extremely strong bias towards JRPG's over WRPG's.

At least a list put together by a group of editors at some site would have looked over what they did and noticed the bias and then come up with something halfway credible. GAF has no business complaining about any of those 'top games' lists.

It turns out that a lot of GAF really likes battle systems. WRPG generally has kinda eh gameplay but good everything else.
 

kswiston

Member
Hey everyone.

I'm glad to see that there is still interest in this thread.

I was thinking of putting the list on hiatus this year, and coming back in late 2014 for a fifth anniversary thread. As satellite says, the list is a lot of work (like 50+ hours to do what I did last year), and I don't think 2013 was a banner year for RPGs. While it would be cool to see Fire Emblem shoot up the list a bit, I think the results would mostly mirror what we saw last year.

Next year will see us through the generation transition. It will also bring on the Witcher 3, Dark Souls 2, some of the highly anticipated kickstarter titles like Wasteland 2 and Pillars of Eternity, plus others. We might also see Fallout 4, and a few other bigger titles. Overall, I think it will make for a fresher voting experience, and perhaps some of the regulars like Dark Schala won't feel burnt out from participating.
 

fwpx

Member
I have a question: Where is the best portable place to play Chrono Trigger these days? I have a 3ds and a Vita.
 

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Number 2 popular? I really really doubt that. Top 50, may be top 20, but we are talking of it being the best of the best RPGs here...

I certainly don't agree with it, but I'm trying to think of a single RPG thread, conversation or list that I've seen in the past few years that hasn't spewed on and on about it. I think it's a mediocre, barely disguised dating sim with boring, repetitive dungeons and super obnoxious voice acting, but hey. It gets the people goin'
 

massoluk

Banned
Please don't put it on Hiatus. A bunch of rankings from last year will change with the initial excitement die down. There are a few notable mentions to shake up the list a bit like Fire Emblem, Mario & Luigi, Pokemon X & Y, RF4, Lightning Return and upcoming Bravely Default

I have a question: Where is the best portable place to play Chrono Trigger these days? I have a 3ds and a Vita.

I think it's pretty much decided that DS has the definitive version.

edit: Looks like I'm going to be the lone dissenting opinion ;\
 
I certainly don't agree with it, but I'm trying to think of a single RPG thread, conversation or list that I've seen in the past few years that hasn't spewed on and on about it. I think it's a mediocre, barely disguised dating sim with boring, repetitive dungeons and super obnoxious voice acting, but hey. It gets the people goin'

I also think it's really overrated, but mediocre? I wouldn't go that far.
 
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