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New Atheism’s Idiot Heirs

Well, I think religion's aesthetic merits shouldn't be scoffed at. In an artistic, atmospheric or meditative sense, I'm sure it's quite soothing.

Completely atheist, but I love baroque, and that just happens to be mostly sacred music or at least biblically-themed. My sister-in-law who is a Jehovah's Witness happened to get a couple of tickets for a performance of Handel's Israel in Egypt HWV 54 at the Sage in Gateshead, and passed them on to my wife. For me that was the treat of the year.
 

Chmpocalypse

Blizzard
Thanks. That's a real bullshit thing to do over a personal spat. I hope he also stopped doing this after he mustered up the courage to admitting he was wrong.

Can you link to his apology? I'd like to read it, I'm glad when people can admit to being wrong.
 

Kettch

Member
I'm technically an atheist, as long as you're using the correct definition.

I'll never identify as an atheist or as part of any group of atheists though. My lack of belief in a god literally means absolutely nothing. My thoughts could be 100% different from those of another atheist. There is no belief structure to form any kind of common ground.
 

Toxi

Banned
Everyone's focusing on the Atheism aspect, but this article is just as much about how the current rhetoric of the alt-right got there.

There is an obsession among the new right with playing up the role of the bastion of logic and reason, even though previous conservatives were more focused on traditional morality. It's what happens when you take the rhetoric from the arguments of Dawkins or Hitchens without picking up the substance, and then transfer it to the same positions as religious fundamentalists.
 
OLD ATHEISM: there is no god
NEW ATHEISM: we must preemptively defend objectively superior white western society against the rest of the world via military dominance

seriously what’s wrong with the 19th century version of atheism, it’s straight up less vile and much more able to talk about philosophy

Old Atheism: There is no god
New Atheism: There is no god but hang on, we are creating all these memes and posts for the Republican party that is putting religious fundamentalists in direct control of America and why did we do that? Seems kind of stupid so I guess we need to fight for atheism now but we also can't let those liberals win lol so we kind of have to fight both and ourselves and does anyone takes us even slightly seriously I hope not or I'm going to have to create memes against them.

In other words, stupid going to stupid.
 

A-V-B

Member
He is. Remember he defended a guy that had a creepy encounter with a woman in elevator? And his bigotry filled letter to her comparing her encounter with supposed plight of muslim women? Here, i'll post his letter

Still not a piece of shit?

Wow, what the fuck? Unless I am missing a lot of ... well, shitty letters coming from this woman... fuck it, that still doesn't excuse it. What a hateful man.
 

Dryk

Member
Organised atheism inherently needs to be combative to justify its existence. So I don't see the point in participating, since I'm not (that much of) an anti-theistic ass. I believe in fighting toxic religious influences where they spring up, but if you make that your mission then you'll start hurting innocent people on a slow day.

So why have you accepted definitions for god(s) that mean "improvable" but not dragons and Santa Clause?
Dragons and Santa are entities with well-defined and claimed bounds that can be analysed. A plausible god entity exists outside of the universe as we know it and we therefore have no knowledge of its plausibility. That said, claims of specific gods are more well defined, then those definitions can be analysed and you can have stronger disbelief in them.

My stance is a mostly philosophical one. A non-interfering god doesn't affect us at all, and isn't worth worrying about or considering, but it's still possible.
 
You clearly don't care enough to even know the issue. No one said he cornered a woman in an elevator; another creep did that at one of his conferences. Dawkins was just super shitty and dismissive of the harassment she suffered.

You're right. I want to be disconnected from this 'new atheism'. I really don't want to even use the term.

You can see it's already apparent in the thread that people are associating 'atheist' with 4chan bullshittery. That we're acknowledging this as a group or a movement is solidifying prejudice against atheist people.


I guess I'll just add, for anyone ready to jump on atheists. A square is a rectangle, but a rectangle isn't necessarily a square. Atheists aren't fedora wearing, alt right, angry white dudes. There might be a fedora wearing internet meme obsessed loser who happens to be atheist, but that has nothing to do with being atheist, please, don't tie me or anyone who doesn't subscribe to god and religion as an alt right asshat.
 

Chmpocalypse

Blizzard
You're right. I want to be disconnected from this 'new atheism'. I really don't want to even use the term.

You can see it's already apparent in the thread that people are associating 'atheist' with 4chan bullshittery. That we're acknowledging this as a group or a movement is solidifying prejudice against atheist people.


I guess I'll just add, for anyone ready to jump on atheists. A square is a rectangle, but a rectangle isn't necessarily a square. Atheists aren't fedora wearing, alt right, angry white dudes. There might be a fedora wearing internet meme obsessed loser who happens to be atheist, but that has nothing to do with being atheist, please, don't tie me or anyone who doesn't subscribe to god and religion as an alt right asshat.

As an agnostic atheist, I can agree. Fuck the alt-right and anyone who supports them.

And sorry for the unnecessary snark, it's been a rough day.
 

Vagabundo

Member
https://the-orbit.net/greta/2014/08/07/richard-dawkins-apologizes-for-dear-muslima/ It's not directed at Watson specifically, but his comment didn't only insult her but women who speak up in western society overall.

Edit: Direct link to his post https://www.richarddawkins.net/2014/08/who-is-belittling-what/

ha, I like that blog. I especially like how she keeps kicking Dawkins in his metaphysical balls - !!Science!!.

Dawkins you asshole. Poster boy for all those other troll assholes who want to be just like you.
 

The Pope

Member
Even after all Dawkin's white supremacist and misogynistic bullshit, some of which was linked in this very thread? (Given your generalization of a tiny fraction of a percentage point of extremists onto the religious understanding of billions of people, I shouldn't be surprised.)
It's not a minority. Go to any Islamic Country, even progressive ones like Indonesia. Don't tell me they have such backwards legislation for any reason other than Islam.(Also please Religion has nothing to with race.) The people are inoccent but they have been indoctrinated into the religion they were brought up in. Hence we criticise the religion. Dont tell me large contingent of the USA's population are homophobic for a any reason other than Christianity. If you don't like conservatives ignoramuses in the deep south, then you shouldn't like it's theological foreign equavelent. Call out evangelical and conservatives in the USA and call out the barbaric theocracies in the middle East. Both are inextricably linked to Abrahamic monotheism. Please show me there is no link.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
It's culture, not Christianity. Christianity is just the vector by which cultural norms are spread and reinforced. There are Christians who support gay right, are they not "real" Christians? That would be a no-true-Scotsman fallacy. Just like how there are atheists who don't support gay rights or ethnic diversity.

America is built on conservative, puritanical values. It would be so even if Christianity didn't exist, because while Abrahamic religions and conservatism overlap, they are separate things.
 

Sblargh

Banned
Civilization 4 got it right. Religion is just an empty vanilla template that you stick whatever you want in.

The danger oficial religion is that is nihilistic. It is nonsense garbage that can be used to justify anything from slavery to communism and yet it is a moral guide. Which means that most people use empty ideology as foundation for their values.

So yeah, religion is not to blame for puritanical hate against other human beings, but acting as an irremovable placeholder for actual morality, it stunts growth and learning.
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But as the new atheists show, other empty placeholders like uncritical rationalism and contrarian thrill seeking work just as well for keeping mankind in its infancy.
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We need more Kant, goddamn it!
 
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