Why do you feel that way?
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New MARIO MAKER footage from Game Center CX SP at NicoNico Chokaigi 2015 w/ Miyamoto!
- Thread starter TheMoon
- Start date
Why do you feel that way?
The level design here is absolutely fantastic. It's amazing how the little things like the star bouncing on the floating in that specific pattern in order to land on the player (if he remains still) can invoke such a strong reaction. It really shows what the game's toolset can accomplish.
This is my most anticipated game this year now, over things like Splatoon. It just looks so ace.
This is my most anticipated game this year now, over things like Splatoon. It just looks so ace.
I Wanna Be The Guy
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I'm expecting 8 worlds worth of Nintendo levels. Essentially I expect them to sell it as "You get a full Mario game already in the game!"
panama chief
Member
Thank u for this. I'm not a fan of watching others play games, but christ this made me hype.
Simbabbad
Member
Because it'd be Hell to implement in an editor? You'd have to add multiple rooms of different sizes to a single level. How many rooms would you allow to be added? How would you handle all the possible connections? How would the user browse through the various rooms? It's an unnecessary headache.
And probably many DLC.
I Wanna Be The Guy
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Even if they didn't allow you to have pipes that connect to different rooms with different backgrounds to the main stage, it wouldn't be hard to implement working pipes from just one part of your level to another.
Simbabbad
Member
What would be the point? And does it even exist in any Super Mario Bros. game? I don't remember any game with teleport pipes that make you go from one pipe to another in the same area?
TheCongressman1
Member
It does. For example, Mario 3: world 7.
I can think of plenty of reasons. You could make some good puzzles out of it.
Also depending on how big the stages can be, you can just utilize some space below your main map to make alternate rooms.
TheCongressman1
Member
Ahh, that's true. I can't imagine placing tiles would require that much resources. I'd like to think he just got lazy at the end of the level.
I Wanna Be The Guy
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This plus it's just an easy way to implement distinct multiple paths through a level. You could even create a stage with like 3 pipes at the start and indicate above them easy medium and hard for example. Or just have some pipes in your stage that lead to sections with powerups or extra lives or whatever. There's plenty of reasons to implement working warp pipes like this.
I don't think I understand what you mean when you say area. If you just mean changing the backdrop/tileset, there are tons of pipes that don't do that in Mario games. If you mean something seperated from the rest of the stage, you can just block off a random section in your stage and set a pipe to take you there. There's no reason you'd have to physically travel from one pipe to another and in the context of creation, the actual space being used doesn't need to make any sense in the context of gameplay.
Like yeah it's kinda disappointing if you can't set up a pipe to take you from a 1-1 tileset to a 1-2 tileset but there's no reason warp pipes wouldn't exist at all.
E: Basically I think expecting that a Wii U game entirely about making Mario levels wouldn't be capable of things that were done in SMB on the NES 30 years ago is completely insane and this will be the most disappointing game ever if I'm wrong.
I Wanna Be The Guy
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God how great would it be if you could mix different backgrounds/level themes in the same level?
TheMoon
Member
This is first and foremost a level editor. Specifically one for linear left-to-right levels that are created on one rectangular canvas/template. Design wise it wants you to create cool obstacle courses, not necessarily secret routes or bonus rooms that don't fit on that map. Warp pipes to secret rooms conflict with that base concept. There is also the accessibility/ease of use issue that creating room transitions within one of these levels entails for the more inexperienced player. I can see them maybe introducing that in the next Mario Maker if they expand the scope in general to creating more complex and complete "games."
Now what I hope is in there are green pipes that you can enter and exit on the same screen to create a sort of maze maybe. Pretty much how they work in Mario vs DK games.
Sorta Maximus
Member
We need pipes you can go into or it's not a mario game.
I Wanna Be The Guy
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But the level editor already does allow for more complex expansive stage creations. It might be easy to use and the base concept may generally be for obstacle courses, but just watch. As long as the tools are there you'll get lots of different stage types. You'll get exploration focused level creations with people putting secret paths and the like in to their levels I assure you. I see no reason working warp pipes shouldn't make it in.
Like I said even if it's difficult for them to get it working for leading to separate rooms that have a different theme to the main stage, I think it's a must to get working warp pipes to link between any parts of the level you like.
TheMoon
Member
I Wanna Be The Guy
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I think I misunderstood wbat you meant by same screen. I took that to mean......pipes on the same screen. Which would be way too limiting. But you basically mean what I mean right? Connecting pipes from anywhere in your entire level.That's why I said what I said in the second paragraph there.
TheMoon
Member
Yea, I thought I had edited that part to make it clearer before submitting but I guess I blacked out.
Simbabbad
Member
OK, I admit it's a cool level, even though I'm not a fan of World 7 from SMB3 (@Thulius: that's what I meant by "same area").
I can see the editor allow this, but not warping to side/extra/secret rooms.
I can see the editor allow this, but not warping to side/extra/secret rooms.
I Wanna Be The Guy
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I remember this one really fucking annoying stage in world 7 of SMB3 that I just couldn't find the exit for for so long. It basically ruined the game for me. But I reckon I wouldn't have been that annoyed by it were it not for the timer combined with limited lives. I think when you've got that kind of pressure those kind of puzzle/exploration type stages are more annoying than fun.
Simbabbad
Member
@The Guy: it's one where you have to grab a specific powerup and have to run in circles from pipe to pipe until you find and use it correctly, right? It despite that level.
I actually hate world 7 in general, it nearly ruined my last SMB3 playthrough, even though a few levels are cool (like the one I linked to).
Honestly, this is why I don't mind if Mario Maker doesn't have warp pipes, even though I think the occasional secret room is cool. It just doesn't seem to be the philosophy behind the game, it would needlessly complicate the editor, and would generate tons of annoying levels IMO. This ain't Mario vs. Donkey Kong.
I actually hate world 7 in general, it nearly ruined my last SMB3 playthrough, even though a few levels are cool (like the one I linked to).
Honestly, this is why I don't mind if Mario Maker doesn't have warp pipes, even though I think the occasional secret room is cool. It just doesn't seem to be the philosophy behind the game, it would needlessly complicate the editor, and would generate tons of annoying levels IMO. This ain't Mario vs. Donkey Kong.
I Wanna Be The Guy
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Yeah that's the one. It's so bad.
I'm blanking on a stage in World 7 like that. There's a stage in World 6 though where you have to fly in a very specific spot and have to have the tail to do that and that level was made by a jackass.
I Wanna Be The Guy
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Different level and that level sucked ass too but at least you could go a different route on the world map to avoid that level.
It's stages like these that make me laugh when people say SMB3 is the best 2D Mario.
Simbabbad
Member
In World 7 there's the first fortress which is very annoying (not exactly pipes, though, it's doors, but it's the same concept).
And there is this pure abomination in World 6.
And a lot of others. I like Super Mario Bros. 3, but God does it have annoying "do exactly this in that specific order or you're stuck" later levels. I hate the near entirety of World 7. It's not that it's difficult, just irritating, and it contradicts the philosophy of the rest of the game.
If sacrificing a few options means we won't have much of that kind of levels in Mario Maker and more of what Arino designed, I'm OK with it. Sometimes, more is less, and less is more. A lot of concepts may be sound great on paper but create a negative phenomenon online, like what tipping did to Tipping Stars.
And there is this pure abomination in World 6.
And a lot of others. I like Super Mario Bros. 3, but God does it have annoying "do exactly this in that specific order or you're stuck" later levels. I hate the near entirety of World 7. It's not that it's difficult, just irritating, and it contradicts the philosophy of the rest of the game.
If sacrificing a few options means we won't have much of that kind of levels in Mario Maker and more of what Arino designed, I'm OK with it. Sometimes, more is less, and less is more. A lot of concepts may be sound great on paper but create a negative phenomenon online, like what tipping did to Tipping Stars.
Why would it be hell to implement in an editor? What about connecting rooms seems so obscenely difficult to you?
All the things you cite as being too hard don't seem any more intensely difficult than any other task of the sort.
I mean, they were able to create and implement pipes in the original Super Mario Bros. What makes it sound so ludicrous that you think it's impossible here?
TheMoon
Member
Read my post on the matter on the previous page or so. That explains the problem with extra rooms for what they're making here.
If the base tile is large enough (and it certainly appears to be), the player can make "separate rooms" by simply enclosing secluded portions of the stage that can be reached only by pipe. There's no reason to offer the ability to "change" rooms in the traditional sense.
Users can simply utilize a portion of the stage itself for that (if need be).
But this is Nintendo. They've already figured out how to make the interface simple. I do think that they could probably "solve" the UI problem of giving players the ability to add multiple rooms per level and still keep the software looking clean as hell/fresh to death.
Simbabbad
Member
Nintendo doesn't work like this, though, they generally prefer to limit options to keep focus.
I really don't find those reasons valid though.
It's built on the preconceived notion that Mario Maker is designed specifically for building only obstacle course type levels, and we don't know that to be the case. Even if that were the case, that doesn't make it impossible or unreasonable to add on functioning pipes.
The ease of use issue is as simple as adding an "Advance mode" or something like that. Or you could allow each world a subset of subrooms. Or simply design it so that warp pipes can connect from one level to another level, which would even allow things like secret exits.
It's easy to see how they might decide to not include that stuff, but once you have the foundation made, it's much easier to go that final 10% than to just release a product that people will criticize as "Almost there."
It seems ridiculous to have a 2D Mario platforming game that doesn't let you enter pipes, and it seems doubly silly to just not try and solve the problem when you've already built up this solid foundation.
TheSlySoul
Member
All the new physics in the game is pretty amazing.
Love that question blocks can spawn enemies.
Edit: The moment at 46:40 is so cruel!
Love that question blocks can spawn enemies.
Edit: The moment at 46:40 is so cruel!
TheMoon
Member
I don't think you're talking ab out physics?
OrbitalBeard
Member
Well, it hasn't been announced for 3DS, so probably not.
Doesn't look like it. Time to get a WiiU!
Kssio_Aug
Member
Damn!
Great acquisition for WiiU! Unfortunately I can't get one right now!
shaowebb
Member
My biggest questions right now
The first is self explanatory but thwomps crash down whenever something goes beneath them...imagine an air stage where you are platforming and there are a bunch of thwomps flying around and you need to jump across a gap beneath them.
- Can I make Lakitu throw Piranha plants?
- Can I make winged thwomps?
The first is self explanatory but thwomps crash down whenever something goes beneath them...imagine an air stage where you are platforming and there are a bunch of thwomps flying around and you need to jump across a gap beneath them.
TheMoon
Member
Why would Thwomps need wings? They float in the air anyway.
And since Bullet Bill Cannons can shoot anything (incl. Piranha Plants), I don't see why Lakitu couldn't also throw anything (considering he already can throw spinies, power ups, and coins in regular SMW).
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
Imagine them floating back and forth waiting, or following Mario trying to crush him constantly.
Im just not feeling this.
Its looking cool and well done, but i think its because i got all this out of my system years ago.
Maybe after something like X comes out, abd my craving for a game of actual immersive substance is satisfied ill check it out.
Definateley much better than rom modding.
Its looking cool and well done, but i think its because i got all this out of my system years ago.
Maybe after something like X comes out, abd my craving for a game of actual immersive substance is satisfied ill check it out.
Definateley much better than rom modding.
Difficult levels only add to making SMB3 the best Mario. Love getting challenged by Worlds 6-8. Winning is a true rewarding experience.
Waylon Drums
Member
Now I feel like my face is naked without a surgical mask on it.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
Are you sick? If not then you shouldn't feel that way.
woopWOOP
Member
Yeah, haha. I was replaying SMB3 not long ago with a friend (who never played it before) and that one castle stage that's completely enemy-free and has the boss hidden away in some pipe high on the ceiling had us stuck for a good while. When we finally figured it out tho it felt great.
Difficult levels only add to making SMB3 the best Mario. Love getting challenged by Worlds 6-8. Winning is a true rewarding experience.
I can see people disliking those stages over the usual obstacle courses, but I think it's pretty cool they managed to create a few puzzle-style levels with the assets they had.
miiverse sharing ... wasnt that confirmed?