Support NeoGAF

[BobTheFork]

Damn! Once again I thought I perfectly understood everything in the MGS universe, and all these previews catch me up. Liquid is apparently in full control now, but is he working for the patriots? I thought he was building his giant army to force an insurrection on the US and attack the patriots directly. All these previews seem to make it seem like the the patriots are behind it, or maybe thats one of the bigger points in 4 we will discover?

 

[StuBurns]

Damn! Once again I thought I perfectly understood everything in the MGS universe, and all these previews catch me up. Liquid is apparently in full control now, but is he working for the patriots? I thought he was building his giant army to force an insurrection on the US and attack the patriots directly. All these previews seem to make it seem like the the patriots are behind it, or maybe thats one of the bigger points in 4 we will discover?

He isn't working for the Patriots. But he is full time Liquid.

The main theme was used in PO's trailers, though. If the plagiarism issue was the reason why it didn't make it into the actual game, then we wouldn't have heard it in the trailers either.

No idea, it might not have anything to do with the plagiarism claims. But it could be that the issue came up between the MPO trailer and the games release. And the MGO trailer's version is much closer the original then the MGS version.

Or it could be that they just don't want to reveal it until we get to that part of the game.

I don't think there has been any sort of legal case about the plagiarism, just a rather embarrassing interview, I don't think they would worry too much about using it.

 

[SMZC]

Damn! Once again I thought I perfectly understood everything in the MGS universe, and all these previews catch me up. Liquid is apparently in full control now, but is he working for the patriots? I thought he was building his giant army to force an insurrection on the US and attack the patriots directly. All these previews seem to make it seem like the the patriots are behind it, or maybe thats one of the bigger points in 4 we will discover?

What from the previews makes you think the Patriots are behind it?

 

[antiloop]

If the game is 60 FPS no youtube video will do it justice. As a test try to download 2 almost identical gameplay videos from gamersyde of Gran Turismo 5 Prologue. One 60 FPS and the other 30 FPS.

The 30 FPS gameplay videos are all horrible. If the game drops 3-5 FPS in some places, those 30 FPS movies makes it feel like 10-15. :lol

Too many frames are lost in the transition making animation a lot less fluid too.

 

[BobTheFork]

What from the previews makes you think the Patriots are behind it?

In one of the trailers, Campbell says 'and the patriots are involved" which i know is ambiguous but I wasn't sure. I can't remember which preview it was specifically, but I remember just reading some lines that made me wonder whether outer heaven was being built in opposition of the patriots or not.
Just making sure I'm clear.

 

[StuBurns]

In one of the trailers, Campbell says 'and the patriots are involved" which i know is ambiguous but I wasn't sure. I can't remember which preview it was specifically, but I remember just reading some lines that made me wonder whether outer heaven was being built in opposition of the patriots or not.
Just making sure I'm clear.

Spoiler

Outer Heaven is a dummy cooperation to which the various PMC's in the game report. Controlled by Liquid, presumably to destroy the Patriots. Liquid has 'taken control' of the Sons of the Patriots system, I'm not sure what exactly the system is, but if the Patriots have really been able to digitize life, it could be the digital distribution of human senses, or something along those lines, which Liquid is now using to meld the minds of his army's so they operate more efficiently.

The chances are Solid Snake is effectively working for the Patriots.

EDIT: sorry.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

LALALALALALALALA I AM NOT READING LALALALALLALALA

 

[JonAmikar]

I don't understand the MGS main theme controversy. Composers are derivative of each other all the time. I think not having the main theme would be a huge loss...

Also why did

Spoiler

Liquid Ocelot call it "Outer Haven" in the latest trailer?

 

[brandonh83]

LALILULELO I AM NOT READING LALILULELO

Fixed.

 

[StuBurns]

I don't understand the MGS main theme controversy. Composers are derivative of each other all the time. I think not having the main theme would be a huge loss...

Also why did

Spoiler

Liquid Ocelot call it "Outer Haven" in the latest trailer?

Awesome question, we don't know yet, but check out the leg of the

Spoiler

RAY

in the TGS trailer, it has it written as Haven there to.

 

[Yoboman]

Yeah, but they are the only ones. I'm not saying it's not running at 60fps now, but it wasn't at those events, and it's not in the Assassin's Solid video either.


Not really, you can tell a framerate from a video, watch a direct feed of MGS3 and MGS2, the difference is really clear. COD4 is another one that's good for comparison.

How can you tell when most videos are recorded at 30fps?

 

[jett]

How can you tell when most videos are recorded at 30fps?

lulz at you

Just the other day you were trying to convince me that MGS4 ran at 60fps by linking me to youtube vids. :lol

 

[Schrade]

lulz at you

Just the other day you were trying to convince me that MGS4 ran at 60fps by linking me to youtube vids. :lol

One of the MGS4 videos released in 2007 or so was in 60 fps. That doesn't mean the game was running at that.. but there must have been a reason for them to have the video at 60fps. (This was the original Sony PR video.. not the crap that GameTrailers posts)

 

[Ploid 3.0]

MGS1 spoiler, and a bit of 2.

Spoiler

After replaying MGS1 with more understanding in the happenings of the MGS universe (after playing mgs3, knowing what a double crosser Ocelot is, what Meryl becomes from the mgs4 previews *sorry isn't much of a spoiler though right, and how Naomi wanted snake dead) Mgs1 is a awesome more awesome experience. You can tell how pissed and vengeful Naomi is with Snake. She's definitely the type to put posion in someone's drink.

When Psycho Mantis started to tell Snake and Meryl their future I kinda expected MGS4 spoilers lol. It's been so long since I played it. He did say that Meryl and Snake won't have a future together, that she had a special place in his heart (also snake said Meryl was special also).

Slight MGS4 preview video spoiler. It's pretty old but may spoil people on balckout

Spoiler

So much tension and emotion can be seen from the vid on youtube when Meryl meets snake in MGS4. The embarrisment on snakes face is amazing.

Amazing spy saga

 

[jett]

One of the MGS4 videos released in 2007 or so was in 60 fps. That doesn't mean the game was running at that.. but there must have been a reason for them to have the video at 60fps. (This was the original Sony PR video.. not the crap that GameTrailers posts)

The only MGS4 trailer that ran at 60fps was the orginal motion bullshot from TGS 2005. It does seem that the final game runs at that framerate though, which is pretty impressive.

 

[sca2511]

jesus, is there anywhere else i can pre-order this baby other than gamestop/eb

 

[Yoboman]

lulz at you

Just the other day you were trying to convince me that MGS4 ran at 60fps by linking me to youtube vids. :lol

No I didn't, I said the poster who captured that video said it was running at 60FPS. And the point of linking that was to show there were no frame-drop problems, like you were worried about

 

[Schrade]

The only MGS4 trailer that ran at 60fps was the orginal motion bullshot from TGS 2005. It does seem that the final game runs at that framerate though, which is pretty impressive.

No, you're dead wrong. The only version of that TGS 2005 trailer I've seen is a crappy SD encode.

The one I am talking about is from 2007 I think. I remember it being 60fps because when I tried to play it it wouldn't play smoothly with CoreAVC. I then checked its fps with MediaInfo and sure enough.. 60fps.

Yeah I just checked. It was the E3 2007 trailer. And like I said, the original, non transcoded version from Sony was 1280x720 60fps. I remember this because it was the time of Killzone 2 hype and we were getting Sony PR media torrented around raw.

 

[Lifeonmars?]

Hot shit, I NEEEED THIS GAME.

 

[StuBurns]

No, you're dead wrong. The only version of that TGS 2005 trailer I've seen is a crappy SD encode.

The one I am talking about is from 2007 I think. I remember it being 60fps because when I tried to play it it wouldn't play smoothly with CoreAVC. I then checked its fps with MediaInfo and sure enough.. 60fps.

Yeah I just checked. It was the E3 2007 trailer. And like I said, the original, non transcoded version from Sony was 1280x720 60fps. I remember this because it was the time of Killzone 2 hype and we were getting Sony PR media torrented around raw.

The actual amount of frames a second from a direct feed video has nothing to do with the frame rate of the game. I've never seen an encoded direct feed running at 60fps, they mostly run at the standard 24 or 25fps that film is at.

The frame rate of the game is a different thing altogether, it's the amount of times a shot is 'drawn' by the engine, when it's time to refresh the screen the PS3 displays the last shot drawn. The higher the frame rate the smoother the game will appear because it reduces the amount of time between the fresh draw and the fresh display.

As for how you can tell, you just can, you can see the fluidity increase with frame rate. Find some direct feed of MGS2 (which runs at 60) and MGS3 (which runs at 30) and you can see the difference. It's the same for MGS4 video's, you can see that they are running at 30. But TGS'05 was running at 60.

 

[TEH-CJ]

My most hyped game as of now.

yup thats right, it just put killzone 2, res 2, and god of war 3 in 2nd place.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

My most hyped game as of now.

yup thats right, it just put killzone 2, res 2, and god of war 3 in 2nd place.

Right there with you man.
The idea of actually getting to play is just surreal.

 

[Schrade]

The actual amount of frames a second from a direct feed video has nothing to do with the frame rate of the game. I've never seen an encoded direct feed running at 60fps, they mostly run at the standard 24 or 25fps that film is at.

No one ever said any different. And pretty much all of the videos from Sony are released at 29.97 fps. There's just been a few exceptions.

The frame rate of the game is a different thing altogether, it's the amount of times a shot is 'drawn' by the engine, when it's time to refresh the screen the PS3 displays the last shot drawn. The higher the frame rate the smoother the game will appear because it reduces the amount of time between the fresh draw and the fresh display.

Again, no one said any different.

What I was talking about was the video being at 60fps and whether or not that meant the game was running at 60fps was up in the air.

As it is they capture their videos poorly or something. Lots and lots of ghosting.

 

[StuBurns]

No one ever said any different. And pretty much all of the videos from Sony are released at 29.97 fps. There's just been a few exceptions.


Again, no one said any different.

What I was talking about was the video being at 60fps and whether or not that meant the game was running at 60fps was up in the air.

As it is they capture their videos poorly or something. Lots and lots of ghosting.

Are you saying you think Jeff meant the actual encoded frame rate? Why would you think that? Everyone else in the whole thread is talking about the games frame rate.

 

[BigBoss]

Why doesn't someone just email Ryan and ask him what the framerate for MGS4 is?

 

[Yoboman]

My most hyped game as of now.

yup thats right, it just put killzone 2, res 2, and god of war 3 in 2nd place.

Killzone 2 doesn't deserve a place anywhere near MGS4

 

[Schrade]

Are you saying you think Jeff meant the actual encoded frame rate? Why would you think that? Everyone else in the whole thread is talking about the games frame rate.

Here, why don't you read what I first posted and see if it makes sense to you AFTER YOU READ IT IN ITS ENTIRETY.

One of the MGS4 videos released in 2007 or so was in 60 fps. That doesn't mean the game was running at that.. but there must have been a reason for them to have the video at 60fps. (This was the original Sony PR video.. not the crap that GameTrailers posts)

 

[StuBurns]

Why doesn't someone just email Ryan and ask him what the framerate for MGS4 is?

We could, but he has never been specific about that kind of tech info, also the game is still months away, code optimization is often done very late, so the frame rate now might not be what ships in June.

Here, why don't you read what I first posted and see if it makes sense to you AFTER YOU READ IT IN ITS ENTIRETY.

Oh I see, I don't understand what Jett meant then. But I still don't see the relevance of the video encoding, it makes no difference to the frame rate issue.

 

[AAK]

game is still months away

Months?

Jun 13th...... it's not like they have overnight to complete the masterfile and mass produce it, package everything, and ship it to all the retailers. The game needs to be DONE within the next couple of weeks for this game to make the release date.

Hopefully that's enough time to sort out everything out.

 

[SMZC]

Killzone 2 doesn't deserve a place anywhere near MGS4

Agreed.

Killzone 2 will probably be pretty good, and it's obvious that from a technical standpoint it's one of the most impressive games of this gen, but when comparing it to MGS4 it just doesn't stand any chance.

People will beat Killzone 2 and probably be impressed by it, but after two or three months, most will have forgotten it. With MGS4, a year after its release people will still be talking about the storyline, the little details and so on.

 

[DieH@rd]

To bad that we will not hear Liquid's original voice actor. He was awesome. Maybe in some flashbacks.


Aniway, its amazing that Liquified Ocelot is 5th man who directly tried to fight the patriots.

Spoilars for entire MGS saga

Spoiler

1. Big Boss stoped Gene in MPO, but continues the fight. Patriots mark him as "bad guy".
2. Patriots send Solid Snake to stop Big Boss in MG1 &MG2. They celebrate him as hero who saved the world.
3. Patriots send Snake to stop Liquid in MGS1.
4. Patriots send Raiden to stop Solidus. Their plan to create perfect soldier when he encnuntered Solid Snake who is now marked as "bad guy" for defying the patriots.
5. Liquid (resurected in Ocelot, probably becouse of Sorrow) prepares direct military assault on Patriots. Snake goes on his last mission (IMO, he and Liquid shoud join up, and nerdbash the Patriots).

 

[zoukka]

To bad that we will not hear Liquid's original voice actor.

Bummer

The guy has done so many games and tv-shows. Check wiki or IMDB.

 

[Dabookerman]

Regarding the fps, I hope everyone knows that the cutscenes never run at more than 30fps.

 

[zoukka]

Regarding the fps, I hope everyone knows that the cutscenes never run at more than 30fps.

I thought so. Didn't bother me in Snake Eater.

 

[AmMortal]

Killzone 2 doesn't deserve a place anywhere near MGS4

QFT


Shooters are mostly sustance deprived, and generic. When it comes to story aspects.

Bummer

The guy has done so many games and tv-shows. Check wiki or IMDB.

His voice is Slick.

 

[SMZC]

To bad that we will not hear Liquid's original voice actor. He was awesome. Maybe in some flashbacks.

Patric Zimmerman is much more appropriate as Liquid Ocelot than Cam Clarke, though. Both Solid and Liquid are old (although in Liquid's case he's just in the body of an old person), so the game clearly wanted to make that parallelism between both characters. Having Liquid Ocelot sounding like someone in his mid 30s (which is how he would have sounded with Clarke) would have been just wrong.

Besides, I think the latest trailer proved that Patric Zimmerman can do a terrific job doing Liquid with Ocelot's voice. I still get chills whenever I hear the line "Brother! It's not over, not yet!" from that trailer. It's just awesome.

Regarding the fps, I hope everyone knows that the cutscenes never run at more than 30fps.

MGS4's cut-scenes are already running at 60fps.

 

[Wollan]

MGS4's cut-scenes are already running at 60fps.

I'm pretty sure they have the cutscenes set for 30fps for cinematic effect (+ more happening).

 

[industrian]

To bad that we will not hear Liquid's original voice actor. He was awesome. Maybe in some flashbacks.


Aniway, its amazing that Liquified Ocelot is 5th man who directly tried to fight the patriots.

Spoilars for entire MGS saga

Spoiler

1. Big Boss stoped Gene in MPO, but continues the fight. Patriots mark him as "bad guy".
2. Patriots send Solid Snake to stop Big Boss in MG1 &MG2. They celebrate him as hero who saved the world.
3. Patriots send Snake to stop Liquid in MGS1.
4. Patriots send Raiden to stop Solidus. Their plan to create perfect soldier when he encnuntered Solid Snake who is now marked as "bad guy" for defying the patriots.
5. Liquid (resurected in Ocelot, probably becouse of Sorrow) prepares direct military assault on Patriots. Snake goes on his last mission (IMO, he and Liquid shoud join up, and nerdbash the Patriots).

Spoiler

Big Boss, presumably under orders from the Patriots, sent Solid Snake into Outer Heaven as he assumed he'd fail.
The Patriots sent Solid Snake into Shadow Moses as they assumed he'd fail.
Solid Snake defied the Patriots by getting involved in the S3 Plan.
I presume that Snake is being forced by the Patriots to take down Liquid as well. Either way, according to David Hayter in an Edge interview: "Snake gets screwed, big time."

 

[AmMortal]

Spoiler

Big Boss, presumably under orders from the Patriots, sent Solid Snake into Outer Heaven as he assumed he'd fail.
The Patriots sent Solid Snake into Shadow Moses as they assumed he'd fail.
Solid Snake defied the Patriots by getting involved in the S3 Plan.
I presume that Snake is being forced by the Patriots to take down Liquid as well. Either way, according to David Hayter in an Edge interview: "Snake gets screwed, big time."

Spoiler

By Otacon? That would the worst ...

 

[Deleted member 30609]

Besides, I think the latest trailer proved that Patric Zimmerman can do a terrific job doing Liquid with Ocelot's voice. I still get chills whenever I hear the line "Brother! It's not over, not yet!" from that trailer. It's just awesome.

I agree completely, fantastically delivered by Zimmerman. His voice and the scene itself is basically the most "OMG" moment of MGS4 media I'm yet to see, like you said (and I'm kinda ashamed to admit this), you get chills.

 

[industrian]

Spoiler

By Otacon? That would the worst ...

I noticed that in a recently re-playthrough of MGS that

Spoiler

Otacon is immune to FOXDIE (Snake asks if he's feeling ok.) Otacon designed REX in the first place so I presume that he would be expendable once the prototype was finished and proven to work. Even if he had been lied to into thinking it was an mobile strategic defence platform, the fact is that he was a valid target for FOXDIE assassination along with the DARPA chief and the Armstech president.

Failing that, FOXDIE IIRC kills based on age. So maybe Otacon's just got a few more years to go.

That's another thing actually about

Spoiler

FOXDIE... was Snake ever "deactivated" from being a FOXDIE vector?

 

[SMZC]

I agree completely, fantastically delivered by Zimmerman. His voice and the scene itself is basically the most "OMG" moment of MGS4 media I'm yet to see, like you said (and I'm kinda ashamed to admit this), you get chills.

Don't be ashamed. We're talking about MGS!

I'm pretty sure they have the cutscenes set for 30fps for cinematic effect (+ more happening).

Well, the first preview that talked about the variable framerate also mentioned that the cut-scenes were already locked at 60fps. Besides, if you look at the Vamp vs Raiden scene, it's obvious that it was meant to be seen at 60fps. When you watch it in the trailer at 30fps, it just looks like something is missing.

Anyway, DMC4 on the PS3 has the cinematics running at 60fps, and it doesn't look any less cinematic because of that

 

[Callo Merlose]

Don't know if most everyone's played Portable Ops, but the biggest reveal in that game is that

Spoiler

Ocelot abolished the Philosophers and he would form the Patriots with Big Boss and someone that we can assume is Zero.

He, too, wants to create a world envisioned by the Boss.

 

[Nervous Hamster]

Waiting for more EDGE info, I ripped the music from the official countdown. Four OST samples from MGS4:

http://files.filefront.com/MGS4+OST+Samplesmp3/;9978065;/fileinfo.html

Enjoy!

 

[Ninja Kn1ght]

Spoiler

By Otacon? That would the worst ...

Spoiler

Maybe, I've speculated before that by the end of the game either Raiden or Otacon will be evil

 

[SMZC]

Waiting for more EDGE info, I ripped the music from the official countdown. Four OST samples from MGS4:

http://files.filefront.com/MGS4+OST+Samplesmp3/;9978065;/fileinfo.html

Enjoy!

I love the "Love Theme" so much. If it's the credits music as it was suggested, it's going to be the most fitting credits music for the series' finale. I can't wait to hear the whole thing.

I hope it isn't really called "Love Theme", though. That name is just stupid.

 

[Yoboman]

I'd love to read the full Edge article

(??)

 

[Yoboman]

I love the "Love Theme" so much. If it's the credits music as it was suggested, it's going to be the most fitting credits music for the series' finale. I can't wait to hear the whole thing.

I hope it isn't really called "Love Theme", though. That name is just stupid.

Hope not, I want the credits theme to be something we haven't heard

 

[MisterSINISTER]

Waiting for more EDGE info, I ripped the music from the official countdown. Four OST samples from MGS4:

http://files.filefront.com/MGS4+OST+Samplesmp3/;9978065;/fileinfo.html

Enjoy!

awesome, thanks

 

[SMZC]

Hope not, I want the credits theme to be something we haven't heard

I'm pissed too at the fact that we've probably heard the credits music by now, but I really can't think of a more appropriate song for the (supposedly) depressing finale. It's perfect!