Mister Apoc
Demigod of Troll Threads
compairing a race to an ideology....
islamic terrorism is based on islamic teachings, you cannot compare that to something as fixed as race and say "well white shooters are bad too"
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New Pew study: Europe will be 10-15% muslim (Sweden 31%) by 2050.What will it entail?
- Thread starter kittoo
- Start date
compairing a race to an ideology....
islamic terrorism is based on islamic teachings, you cannot compare that to something as fixed as race and say "well white shooters are bad too"
Reverse Giraffe
Banned
And why would I do that? Shadow on the wall game? You're not making any sense.
I've not lied about anything, nor have I personally attacked you.
If I were alt-right or from t_d, I would have said so. There's really not any reason to lie.
If you don't understand basic definitions of words, then I don't know what to tell you.
You've got a lot of misdirected anger. Hopefully, you can get some help with that.
Reverse Giraffe
Banned
I can't even be mad about it. I just feel sorry for him.
The argument is that they aren't 'bad people'. Despite US deep entrenched racism they've generally done a pretty good job at assimilating immigrants over a period of time. When I was studying abroad in France tho? Oh boy. Lets just say it reminded me of the South how Arabs and Africans were marginalized.
Europe tends to pat itself on the back for being the 'good' guys and bringing in refugees but basically leaves a bunch of people fleeing from a fucked up environment to their own devices in ghettos with no job opportunities (admittedly the recent migrant wave has had it trying to be better with assimilation programs, jobs, etc but its too little, too late).
That simply because they give a family a social net it excuses throwing em far away to fend for themselves in a strange place that offers them nothing but basic lodging and food.
There are some places in Europe that remind me of the worst hoods in the US but without the gun violence.
It's interesting how we can believe the rise of racism in the states is due to 'economic anxiety' but can't apply that to people who leave somewhere fucked up, (and socialized in that fucked upness without the chance to deprogram) show up somewhere strange and get stuffed in housing to be forgotten with no job opportunities to move up might hop on the religious based nihilism train. There's a reason why there's a disturbing amount of young European raised terrorists.
It's why when you hear about the hysteria about places with 'sharia law' nobody talks about how they all ended up stuffed in these insular places.
As usual we want the easy cure, 'Those mooslims are all terrorists, lock em out!' but don't realize the part that we played to get here in the first place.
You're missing the forest through the trees.
Clearly my answer isn't easy enough.
The kind of "terrorism" that that asshole in Orlando committed has as much to do with Islam as the kind of terrorism that that white prick has to do with nationalism.
Nothing. It's not as easy as that sorry guy. I know breitbart would like to tell you otherwise.
Like I'm sure all the other forms of radical propaganda coopting ideology would tell you a differing easy answer too.
llien
Member
Give me a break...
A Link to the Past
Banned
Because that is how the data is categorized.
I worry about getting killed by someone for religious reasons, regardless of whether they are Evengelical Christians or Muslims. I'm happy that you do not have those same worries. With that said, your argument does not stand as it's fallacious. That the Pulse shooting was perpetuated by a member of a small minority does not itself demonstrate that the polling was erroneous.
The Orlando shooting had nothing do with immigration, the person who committed it was a U.S. citizen. This is a fact known through the most basic of research on the subject you wish to have a discussion about.
Lies! There's verifiable proof that the white politicians in my country have set up white woman rape camps so the mooslims can breed us out! My third cousin on my mothers side's best friend works for one!
Mister Apoc
Demigod of Troll Threads
i mean a clear case in UK where police were not allowed to report the muslim grooming gangs of fear of being racist in rotherham
InterMusketeer
Gold Member
You'd think refugees would be able to process all the stuff they've gone through and try to adjust to their new country since their housing and finincial troubles are basically being taken care of. Apparently not. Accepting these people within our borders and investing in them is just not enough. If that's the case, I say just give up. We don't have the perfect solution, obviously, but if what we're doing for immigrants now is not enough, I don't think we'll ever get there, honestly.
Yes I'm sure that "terrorist" Orlando shooter gave two fucks about the Islamic state.
And I'm sure that "terrorist" spraying and praying in Vegas gave two shits about his political cause too.
Your understanding of what motivates a single man in a vacuum I.e: not part of a cell. To kill people is so unbelievably shallow.
You really think anyone gives a fuck? We are pretending we give two shits about these values we coopt in order to channel the volcanic eruption of self hatred? And rage?
Like the anti globalist espousing his beliefs on the internet on his fucking iPhone. Blissfully unaware of the certain ironies?
They want an excuse, any easy answer to sail them down the radical river that all leads to the seem place running.a.bunch of people over in a car. All whilst drifting gently into mental illness.
And my anger is absolutely targeted in the right space. I wouldn't presume to pretend the ills of the country are caused by a.bunch of low rent absolutely bottom of the social economic scale pissant migrants.
Yes the lowest rungs of society generally do get the blame. It's generally an easier proposition to shit on the weakest. Especially when you're a cowardly cunt thats allergic to personal responsibility.
Not to mention, it's a bit too ironically retro.
Demanding that refugees return when its save is just fair you dope.
And dont even get me started you all had no issue creating the problems just as easy. And what have you to show for it? A mountain of corpses from terror, thousands of "sexual emergency's" and i am not even gonna talk about the spread of radicalization and terrorism on borderline the entire European continent.
You naive welcome refugee fools had no problem ignoring thousands of warnings rightly predicting everything up to now.
Who takes the political responsibility?
Politicians had to resign for less.
Yeah thats not what the thread is about.
The problem here is that that they will not be integrated and they radicalize way more because of it. The only solution would be way less refugees but these refuges get the proper care like they get in Canada for example.
Canada has a fantastic immigration system but this only works because they take like 10k a year and they can chose who they want. Europe cant . So we get a ton of trash which we can not even depart when they do shitty things. So my solution would be WAY less but treated in the right way to give them a future.
Also No one ever would complain about Muslims in Europe if they were like American Muslims. What you get in America is almost the best of the best. You can not compare them to the ones in Europe.
Its not really taken care of tho; thats the other thing. They give em a thoroughly mediocre life with less opportunity than someone who's seen as an actual citizen and wonder why they might cling to base behaviors like religion.
Its a problem that's been brewing for a long time that's had huge geopolitical Western forces pushing things this way along with ya local radical imans.
I can't disagree with your point that it might be too late (hell, I might just agree with you), just the idea in this thread as if Muslim 5 year olds show up to Europe AK and C4 in hand ready to rape and pillage.
Europe's shitty policies/views on immigrants in general is as responsible as the nuts telling people to blow themselves up
A Link to the Past
Banned
Spent a good while reading up on this, and it is a lot more complicated than not wanting to offend.
1. Powerful figures in the council and police force have ties to people who were suspected and convicted of these crimes.
2. All issues relating to the Pakistani community in Rotherham were handled by the "Pakistani-heritage council," with one member described as "too influential."
3. It is alleged that there were also financial ties between the taxi services and the police force that encouraged looking the other way.
Judging by the data, there is indeed however an element of allowing harm out of the perceived notion that in preventing it, they may be seen as racist. However, at some point there has to be a line drawn. Is it reasonable to excuse such behavior by the fear of that? I mean, I do not think it exactly reasonable to expect, as I cannot recall any time someone caught fire for going after such criminals.
KonradLaw
Member
The high immigration scenario is very unlikely. EU already clamped down on illegal immigration, closed routes from middle-east and is closing down most from Africa. So the medium scenario is the most likely by far and we might even get closer to zero scenario if things play out like they do now.
That said, one way or another it won't be pretty in this century. Studies show that each generation of muslims is more radical than the previous one. What;'s worse, automation will kill most of the low-skill jobs avaible, so there will be no work for new arrivals and steady work is by far the best way to integrate. Add the increasinly hostile native populations and you will get muslims living in ghettos, in poverty (well..european poverty, but still) and surrounded mostly by other muslims, which will only lead to less integration and more radicalization, creating self-strenghtening cycle.
The worst thing is that nobody really knows how to fix that. It worries me, despite the fact that it won't affect me personally, as even in the most disastrous pew scenario population of muslims in Poland won't surpass 0.2%. But western Europe will have huge problems.
That said, one way or another it won't be pretty in this century. Studies show that each generation of muslims is more radical than the previous one. What;'s worse, automation will kill most of the low-skill jobs avaible, so there will be no work for new arrivals and steady work is by far the best way to integrate. Add the increasinly hostile native populations and you will get muslims living in ghettos, in poverty (well..european poverty, but still) and surrounded mostly by other muslims, which will only lead to less integration and more radicalization, creating self-strenghtening cycle.
The worst thing is that nobody really knows how to fix that. It worries me, despite the fact that it won't affect me personally, as even in the most disastrous pew scenario population of muslims in Poland won't surpass 0.2%. But western Europe will have huge problems.
InterMusketeer
Gold Member
Because they had such fantastic and luxurious lives in whatever war-torn or impoverished country they came from? A mediocre life is perfectly acceptable in my opinion. Especially when it's basically given to you free of charge, with very little investment of your own. It's an improvement over what they had in any case.
KonradLaw
Member
Christianity was nerfed though. First by new testament and then just by western world advancement. Islam was going through similiar advancement, with people learning to treat Koran with some distance. You can look at old european muslim populations or how middle east looked just few decades ago before radicals went to power.
Unfortunatelly the islam that's growing now and taking over is a radical oldschool one, with no advancements the religion enjoyed. It's like if we took christians straight out of darkest ages of inquisition and dropped them into modern world, that also would get pretty damn ugly.
Reverse Giraffe
Banned
You're kind of all over the place.
Omar Mateen pledged support for ISIS on his 911 call. The transcript is readily available if you would like to read it.
We don't know the motivations of the Las Vegas killer, which make it even scarier.
I called James Field, Jr. a terrorist in the previous page of this thread.
Considering the vegas shooter targeted republicans..probably a deranged leftie who thought he was killing nazis.
they're free to fuck off back where they came from.
If you think long term mediocrity is going to soothe a general populace you would be a really shitty politician(or simcity player, lol). The fact is that its not old men who knew first hand the upgrade from atrocities his family has seen who are becoming radicalized. Its from the young Muslim who's grown up in the West but feels locked out of it; living in a in a ghetto where he's seen as not a citizen even if he was born there, with no job opportunities to get out of said ghetto, who get converted.
"Economic Anxiety" is just another way of saying mediocre life, not sure how its only valid for one side and not the other
Reverse Giraffe
Banned
Targeted Republicans how? By attacking a country music festival? Granted, most country music fans are Republicans I'm sure a great deal of them aren't. The shooter left a note but the contents have not been made public.
There's no evidence at all that he was a "deranged leftie."
And the guy that shot up a planned parenthood mentioned a fox news story about murdering babies.
Why are you going to listen to these mentally warped individuals with any seriousness?
They reach a point where they are so engulfed in an enflamed rage of confirmation bias, the nature of the self reinforcing social media structure. It creates mini pressure cookers out of people.
I don't consider that planned parenthood murderer a terrorist he's a sicko.
People have been coopting ideas since forever to justify their sick actions.
He could of called up and said he did it for the spaghetti monster guild. It's all delusion at that point.
Reverse Giraffe
Banned
Yes, because the man who shot up Planned Parenthood had not only the goal to murder but to intimidate that organization and others not to support abortion because he wanted to impose his beliefs on others by fear that violence will come to them. That's what terrorism is all about.
Enosh
Member
you really think once another wave of a million people is moving from Africa or the ME and the media is again showing pictures of dead kids those routes are going to stay closed?
add in family reunification and the max immigration version looks like a best case scenario
This is the definition. If you want to archive some political goal though threats and violence you are a terrorist. This is not really debatable
llien
Member
I'm an immigrant myself, live in Germany, although am not a Muslim.
You are unfairly generalizing.
While there are countries with basically ghettos (I am not familiar with how they have been formed) like Belgium or France, London (I'm travelling over there from time to time) is basically a city where majority has an immigrant origin,
Education in Germany (and in most parts of the EU, bar couple of exceptions like UK) is free.
Immigrant kids can't skip school.
Since education (as well as healthcare) is universally accessible, you don't need any particular effort to become part of the middle class, the opportunity is right there, for everyone.
When Germans ask "are you German" they don't mean your ethnicity.
And as it is actually Germany that accepted lion's share of refugees, I think this was worth mentioning.
Mister Apoc
Demigod of Troll Threads
not every mass shooting is terrorism
terrrorism has a specific definition a violent act often for a political gain
as far as we know there has not been any political motive for the las vegas shooter..
while mass shootings are just as bad, there is a reason that paddock hasn't had the terrorist label
if you call everything terrorism you just dilute the word
terrrorism has a specific definition a violent act often for a political gain
as far as we know there has not been any political motive for the las vegas shooter..
while mass shootings are just as bad, there is a reason that paddock hasn't had the terrorist label
if you call everything terrorism you just dilute the word
CadetMahoney
Member
meh I don't mind if it becomes the major/state religion in countries over there, it's their decision.
The majority of the population seems to welcome it especially in Germany/Sweden. UK seems to have some naysayers but I get the impression from the media that most all in favor of more diversity and there's nothing wrong with the demographic change. It's not like they can or will be able to turn around the population numbers anyway.
The majority of the population seems to welcome it especially in Germany/Sweden. UK seems to have some naysayers but I get the impression from the media that most all in favor of more diversity and there's nothing wrong with the demographic change. It's not like they can or will be able to turn around the population numbers anyway.
We have these ghettos but they are not whole cities but larger districts. In these distrcts talking german is rare. We have schools in which you have 90% of children with migration background and in there you have huge problems with language and religion.
Germany already did huge mistakes during the 90s with migrant workers and the gov did not learn about their mistakes at all. Handling so many refugees at one time was a huge mistake not only for the country but also for the refugees who are basically left alone.
Even if they wanted to integrate the german gov makes it very difficult for them. Example are language lessons. If you are lucky you will have an hour each week which is nothing. We are missing Kindergarten, places to live, to work or education. So I give my gov a huge part of the blame when refugees will not integrate.
If you honestly and sincerely look at that person who did that at planned parenthood and can't see he's clearly and absolutely fucked in the head. Then I don't know what to tell you man.
It's like you have a really really narrow and rudimentary grasp on what motivates people.
Any insane fuck can yell allah before a spree. Yell ISIS or America First! You look up their media history it's all radical persuasive media preying the mentally weak.
People don't give a flying fuck about any of this. They look for an excuse to blowup.
You can feed the desperate and the weak any line of bullshit as long as it also exonerates them of personal liability of their situation and explains away and channels a ceaseless rage into something like "abortions'" or "trans rights"
No one actually gives a fuck. Not even them it's just a useful channel to blow up.
And if you literally can't at all grasp what I'm saying, then the end point of your rationale when you get older, it's not going to be a good time for you man. Because you're giving up reason. For a delusion. Sounds like something.
KonradLaw
Member
Yes, I actually do think they will stay closed. More and more europeans just don't give a damn about those people. Them drowing by thousands in sea is either treated with a shrug or "it's their own fault anyway". And even among more compashionate remaining people more and more people are realizing taking those migrants in is a very dumb idea, even from humanitarian poitn of view.
So no, I think you could have a dead kid on front page every day and the routes would still stay closed. Opening them up is political suicide for anyone who attempts to, especially since it's obvious no mechanism of automatic relocation will be implemented. So whoever lets those migrants in will have to then take them all in on it's own and at this point nobody can afford to anymore.
European politicans aren't dumb. It's either closing the routes down now and using money to invest in africa or shooting at the boats in few decases or so (because when dozens or maybe even hundreds of millions will start moving that will be the only solution)
Agreed Cuate! Tell them fuckers. Fuck em with the cuck virtue signalling sjw that feel that cant let darkie babies drown. Amright? Am-altright?
What a lame clown.
nkarafo
Member
Oh... So if immigrants cause problems it's the locals who need to leave. Yeah that sounds reasonable.
infinitys_7th
Member
The Pulse shooting is very unlikely to be ISIS or fundamentalist related terrorism (given that investigation found no signs of radicalization). IIRC, there were indications that Omar was a closeted gay man who felt a lot of stress from his highly religious family along with rejection from men and lashed out. In which case, the shooting is not necessarily "terrorism" by definition, as it was not advancing ideology through fear.
In the same way, the still motiveless Paddock did not commit "terrorism". What ideology was he intending to advance?
That does not change the acts from being terrible, but terrorism has a specific meaning. I find it odd that the left constantly try to shift words like "terrorism" away from their typical nuance and into generalized usage that utilizes the intrinsic nuance of the word to slightly alter the perception of events. All mass murders are not terrorism, even if they inspire fear. Are serial killers terrorists?
You attempt to compare Las Vegas with the likes of San Bernadino or 9/11 when the situations were entirely different.
So they can fuck off to the country their parents were born in?
Radicalization starts with attitude like that- telling children of migrants who more often than want to fit are for whatever reason are unable to. Instead of finding a solution, deriding them, telling them that they can never be one of the countrymen and fuck off to a country they never grew up in is an unequivocally racist attitude.
nkarafo
Member
I agree with this.
But i still don't get something. Why so many muslims want the country that hosts them turn into the same country they immigrated from? I thought they wanted to get away from the radicalization and Sharia laws so they can have a better life?
Shariah law is a catch all term for everything terrible about Islam and Muslims.
There's 1.6 billion of them out there.
Rushersauce
Banned
"those damn Muslim and their muslamic rayguns will kill us all"
-this thread.
Worthy of 4chan. I'm impressed.
-this thread.
Worthy of 4chan. I'm impressed.
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
You just responded to a post about second generation migrants by telling them to fuck off to where they came from and pulled the LV shooters motivation out of your ass, all in one post. Trust me, hes not the clown. Do us all a favour and stick to the gaming side.
Hoya Destroyer
Member
Ego.
If their culture is accepted and praised in their host country, it makes them feel significant.
Yes, he is. He's a right wing hindu, a supporter of the extremist BJP party in India, his opening summary is full of slippery slope fallacies which should give you an insight to his islamaphobia.
Most of Western Europe are secular nations, actually, no such thing as Christian nations. And people like you can fuck off, as your bigoted ideas goes against our "western" values.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
It's a testament to the abandonment of GAF moderation team that this thread has such horrible opinions allowed to freely be shit out of peoples mouths.
Because they never wanted to flee from the religion or oppression of others.: In German regfugee camps there are more and more cases in which Christian refugees getting threaded, attacked etc. from Muslim refugees. There were cases in which they were not allowed into the kitchens and use other spaces because they were Christians
which horrible opinions? Since we are here talking not about American Muslims but European ones who are getting radicalized I do not see these horrible opinions to be honest.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I would be curious if you could show me these statistics on Muslim refugees attacking Christian refugees.
There are and the vast minority are actual moderate Muslims
Just a few examples. If you want to read much more:
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/