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NieR: Automata Spoiler Thread

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
The thing i never got about the commander is that was she supposed to know about the plan?

The S class document that she knows mentions the backdoor and the way she just hands 9s the humanity stuff before executing the mission that is a signal to get rid of yorha implied that she does, but the ss class document says that she didn't have access to the plans and the way she acts during the bunker infection scene kinda implies that she didn't know?
 

Baalzebup

Member
Eh, no, there is no indication that the commander knows anything about the YoRHa disposal plan. She also didn't hand the data to 9S, he got that all on his own. She actually handled that part brilliantly, since we all know (and she knew) that the 1st person 9S would spill the beans to would be 2B. That is the whole point of the part where 9S laments that he didn't have a good moment to bring up the subject before the events of C start. The moment he would have shared the info would have immediately been followed by 2B going 2E on him.

Even with the Black Box file having info that was supposed to be revealed only in the YoRHa disposal file, both of them have the security classification of SS, separately mentioning that the info isn't to be shared even with the Commander, as opposed to the S-class file Project YoRHa which is the info that the commander (and likely the E-types) do know, including the extinction of humanity.
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
That's what I meant about the S class document. Why would something instrumental to the yorha disposal plan like the backdoor be known to her?

Maybe they were fronting to her that the backdoor as something they can use against the machines? After all, that's how A2 destroyed the tower.

Also wouldn't the commander want 2B to go 2E on 9S? Isn't that the point? That whole scene just made it seem like she wanted him to retain that knowledge for... what?
 

Baalzebup

Member
That's what I meant about the S class document. Why would something instrumental to the yorha disposal plan like the backdoor be known to her?
It isn't know to her. It isn't available in any information that she has access to. The first, erroneous mention of the backdoor was in the Black Box file, which is a SS-class file. We, the players, got hit with the info before 9S was due to the devs or whomever making a mistake with that. The commander has never been privy to the backdoor info.
Also wouldn't the commander want 2B to go 2E on 9S? Isn't that the point? That whole scene just made it seem like she wanted him to retain that knowledge for... what?
I just explained it. She didn't make a big number out of it, since she knew that the first recipient of the damning info would be 2B, who would then follow her directives and neutralize 9S. She didn't feel need to make any extra preparations, or give a kill order or anything, because in her mind, the timeline was clear: 9S would die as soon as he tried to spill the info to his most trusted companion, 2B.
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
I guess in her mind she was just expediting the process of him discovering the info and then getting memory wiped? I dunno, just felt like she made things more complicated at the end, though I guess it's true that if he discovered it later on he might have hesitated all the same.

Also didn't know that the S Class document was a mistake.

As much as I do love this game some parts could use better direction. :p
 

Baalzebup

Member
I guess in her mind she was just expediting the process of him discovering the info and then getting memory wiped?
?!?! The only thing she did was to basically make sure that when 9S talked about the info he just found out, he would start with 2B. She did nothing to hasten the process of 9S getting his hands on the damning info. Again, he found that shit from the YoRHa servers all on his own.
Also didn't know that the S Class document was a mistake.
The Black Box file was the one that had the backdoor info too early, and that was always a Class SS-document. The only the players got exposed to that information earlier than they were supposed to. The S-class Project YoRHa file never had any SS-class info mixed up in it. It only detailed the extinction of humanity.
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
I think I know what you mean about the 9S talking to 2B thing, it's just that it seemed that it made him hesitate doing it as we've seen. Then again, maybe she knows that sooner or later he always tells her.

But then the concert made it seem like once Pod 153 catches wind that he knew she sends out the kill order to 2B so who the fuck knows really.

Wouldn't the backdoor information be considered SS class? Though I've already speculated reasons why it could be there without pertaining to the plan.


f3IaCm7.png
 

Baalzebup

Member
Wouldn't the backdoor information be considered SS class? Though I've already speculated reasons why it could be there without pertaining to the plan.
Don't confuse the info about the general existence of something called Backdoor to actually being privy to what it is. The same S-class file also mentions the Black Box, but the file for the Black Boxes is SS-class. That particular file is just indexing other files.
 

Golnei

Member
It's a little different - the black boxes are common knowledge and a basic fact of the androids' construction even if the truth of their construction isn't provided to anyone in YoRHa. The backdoor by definition is an intentional security vulnerability - though it could still be explained away.

Maybe it'd be presented as a way for android commmand on Earth to retake the Bunker in the event of mutiny?
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
That's fair enough, but like I said, could use some more direction and editing. Does that need to be there if that's the intention? No. Does it allow for speculation that could lead to people thinking otherwise? Yes.

Not to say designing to make your audience speculate is bad design, if anything this game is great at creating breadcrumbs for people to follow, but that part leads to a bit too much theorising outside of the game where most stuff you can read into through material in the game. For me anyway. Maybe I'm just alone in this.

It's a little different - the black boxes are common knowledge and a basic fact of the androids' construction even if the truth of their construction isn't provided to anyone in YoRHa. The backdoor by definition is an intentional security vulnerability - though it could still be explained away.

Maybe it'd be presented as a way for android commmand on Earth to retake the Bunker in the event of mutiny?

I think the machine cores are only for Yorha units? So it wouldn't really be known to anyone who isn't privy to yorha's true purpose.
 

Golnei

Member
I think the machine cores are only for Yorha units? So it wouldn't really be known to anyone who isn't privy to yorha's true purpose.

I mean the existence of the boxes themselves, not what they were made from or why. I was talking about how casually referring to the existence of a backdoor in the Bunker without going into the plan behind YoRHa requires more explanation than just referring to black boxes in other contexts.
 
So, I've read through the script translations released thus far. (Thank heavens for reddit's wngmv. Doing the Lord's work.) The stories aren't 100% aligned with the lore as we know it, but that might change if Taro releases more material. He's got some books/guides coming out, right?

Anyway,some impressions/new lore bits I thought were neat:

Part 1
-The first scene implies that 9S telling 2B about the classified intel he found can work as a kill switch, not just Pod 153 blowing the whistle. I wonder what 9S told her?
-I was surprised to see that 9S describes his feelings for 2B as mostly familial/platonic. Looks like this gets brought up again in Part 4 where I'm under the impression he acknowledges some budding romantic feelings but he knows that they can't develop a relationship due to their jobs.
-Looks like 9S and 2B get assigned to basically the same area for recon every time. This causes 9S to say things that are variants for stuff he says in-game. Like, when they reach the ruined mall, 9S still suggests they go shopping one day. (Instead of cautiously accepting, 2B gets shy and sad at the same time. Taro, your tooth-rotting angstfluff is killing me.)
-During one of the executions, Pod 153 ends up mentally breaking. (She does care! ...Maybe.)
-2B had a hard life. :(

Part 2
-Pod 042's voice and personality seem to be based on the android scientist that designed the YorHa units, named Zinnia. In the YorHa stage play, there's a whole android generation named after flowers, so it's more than likely he was part of Anemone's gen.
-Zinnia eventually became troubled by the dubious nature of his plan to pretend humans were still alive and make machine/android hybrids, because interacting with 2B's and 9S's predecessors convinced him that YorHa androids were no different from regular androids, but YorHa units would never be treated equally. I'd say that he even felt pretty fatherly towards them. (Except for that one moment where he jokes about 9 asking him out. Rectangle dad, don't joke flirt[?] with your garbage son.)
-That being said, Numbers 2 and 9 act like a pair of squabbling siblings. At first, all they did was get on each others nerves, but by the end, they actually seemed to have bonded.
-An older military organization and type of combat android get name dropped. I wonder what the deal is with the Dragon Knights? ...Do they have anything to do with Angelus?
-Number 2 seems to initially have been a female S-type-like unit?
-Number 9 looks to have had a huge hand in developing the logic virus backdoor plan. This plot point needs more elaboration than we got. The script makes it seem like it was all him and only he knows, but we got official documentation about the Logic Virus backdoor, so all of the android higher ups would've been in on it. Number 9 could have been in cahoots with the higher ups for a while, but it really isn't indicated.
-Also, his motivation for developing the backdoor is still a mystery. He does mention that the end goal was to make sure the extinction of humanity was kept a secret, but I don't really know why he would want that. His disjointed rant points to feelings of disgust at himself for being a machine/android hybrid. Maybe since he thinks of himself as a monster, bringing back a "god" would be the only cause worth dying for? Or maybe he hates Zinnia so much for creating him, so he fixes Zinnia's plan to be more cruel than he could ever imagine?
-In light of this new info, it makes a lot of sense for 2B to be given Pod 042. It's like reuniting 2's descendant with her dad. That being said, Pod 153's android equivalent is unaccounted for...I wonder if she guided 9 down his nutso path in some way.
-Also, I guess it makes sense for Command to want to use Number 9's blueprints while feeling extremely worried about it. He was a genius on one hand but turned out to be a violent wild card on the other.

Part 3

-One of 2E's solo missions was to go after A2. Cool.
-A2 used to just go after machines, but after she learned that Command was after her, she pledged herself to go after anyone who opposed her, be it machine, android or human.
-After 9S is assigned to 2B, he would also accompany 2B when fighting A2. (I know this happens in-game too, but I still can't believe Command would assign 9S E-type work.)
-A2 felt a little bad killing the Forest King, since he was so helpless.
-2B and 9S actually don't remember their previous showdowns with A2. 9S doesn't remember for obvious reasons, but it looks like 2B was put through a memory wipe. Their previous attempts to kill A2 were that embarrassingly ineffectual.
-When they were tasked with killing her, 2B and 9S acted quite uncaring and cruel towards A2. However, when they run into her in the Forest Kingdom, they act in a very wary, almost naive way, because they lost the memories of their previous missions. A2 notes their change in behaviour and notes that "this may be and end, or a beginning". Maybe that's why she went easy on them?
-This version of 9S seems to have felt really bad about having to hurt A2 and started questioning the nature of YorHa after meeting her. (Too bad that understanding goes down the drain later on...)

So, there's some plot holes, but a number of neat insights.

Also, I would pay good money to get 9S's english VA to do Number 9's loony meltdown speech.
 

addik

Member
Also, I would pay good money to get 9S's english VA to do Number 9's loony meltdown speech.

Neato, will definitely look forward to future lore material! Thanks for the translation!

Oh, and Kyle might be up to it to. Not sure how you could contact him, but he does have a Twitch, so maybe you can comment on his video and send him the translation so he can do it? I don't know, just thinking out loud.
 
Neato, will definitely look forward to future lore material! Thanks for the translation!

Oh, and Kyle might be up to it to. Not sure how you could contact him, but he does have a Twitch, so maybe you can comment on his video and send him the translation so he can do it? I don't know, just thinking out loud.

Actually, wngmv did the translation if you want to take a look at the script yourself. I'm just mulling over what stuck out to me.

Anyway, Part 2 is here. 9's meltdown is at the bottom. It just needs a little polish to make it flow, that's all.

Also, reading through it again, I just realized 9 also put A4's and 21O's predecessors on ice for trying to stop him. Feels bad man.
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
Hmm, if I'm reading this right, #9 hated the fact that he and every YorHa unit is made from machines, but also hates the fact that he lacks purpose, with neither a god to fight for and not even a common race seeing that he himself doesn't consider himself to be android?

So he created the YorHa plan as an addition to Zinnia's original moonbase plan because in his mind he could not only destroy all the machine core yorha members, but also find a purpose to his existence by making it impossible to verify if humans exist on the moonbase?

How... dementedly twisted.

I like this note from the chinese translator.

Thoughts from JP-> CN translator: I don't care how Yoko played me before, but this is the first time, I thought, Wow, Yoko you are a cruel/malicious person. But this time it felt like 2B/9S stories spanned multiple lives (the idea of samsara in China: as in you get a new life in another person after you die, but you don't really remember what happened in last life: CN -> EN translator). With this kind of development I don't want to read what happened next.

edit: also the script for the first part is some heartbreaking shit. Christ.

https://pastebin.com/qhvVbuVL

I need a shower.
 

Ubernube

Member
The strategy guide released and it apparently features two new novellas the world guide did not have

Read here:
http://nier2.com/blog/2017/04/30/nierautomata-strategy-guide/

The strategy guide also apparently features a timeline showing off various pieces of lore and stuff. From what I hear, the timeline seems to confirm that the Ending E we saw in game takes place after Ending D, as the ark shooting off into space is mentioned here.
Also, if you did not kill pascal when given the choice to kill, delete his memories, or leave, he apparently lives on and signs a peace treaty between a faction of machine lifeforms and the androids.
 

spiritfox

Member
The strategy guide also apparently features a timeline showing off various pieces of lore and stuff. From what I hear, the timeline seems to confirm that the Ending E we saw in game takes place after Ending D, as the ark shooting off into space is mentioned here.
Also, if you did not kill pascal when given the choice to kill, delete his memories, or leave, he apparently lives on and signs a peace treaty between a faction of machine lifeforms and the androids.

So the most barbaric option is the best one.
 

Ferr986

Member
The strategy guide also apparently features a timeline showing off various pieces of lore and stuff. From what I hear, the timeline seems to confirm that the Ending E we saw in game takes place after Ending D, as the ark shooting off into space is mentioned here.
Also, if you did not kill pascal when given the choice to kill, delete his memories, or leave, he apparently lives on and signs a peace treaty between a faction of machine lifeforms and the androids.

Whaaaaaat? I never knew you could leave him as hw is, I thought it was only eithee kill or delete memory.
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
I dunno, the more I think about it the more I prefer the leave option.

People can't just keep running away from their decisions.

Also the fishing story is super cute. 153 does care.
 
The strategy guide also apparently features a timeline showing off various pieces of lore and stuff. From what I hear, the timeline seems to confirm that the Ending E we saw in game takes place after Ending D, as the ark shooting off into space is mentioned here.
Also, if you did not kill pascal when given the choice to kill, delete his memories, or leave, he apparently lives on and signs a peace treaty between a faction of machine lifeforms and the androids.
That's mind blowing, but knowing this doesn't change how painful his existence remains. I'd rather while him.
 
The strategy guide also apparently features a timeline showing off various pieces of lore and stuff. From what I hear, the timeline seems to confirm that the Ending E we saw in game takes place after Ending D, as the ark shooting off into space is mentioned here.
Also, if you did not kill pascal when given the choice to kill, delete his memories, or leave, he apparently lives on and signs a peace treaty between a faction of machine lifeforms and the androids.
I just walked out. If he truly wanted to know what it means to be human he would have to deal with loss and the consequences of his actions. Good to know he didn't either kill himself or found a way to erase his memories.
 

LotusHD

Banned
Lol, just did the Turf War sidequest, loved how 9S was wondering how the machine could care so much more about animals dying, but not so much for a fellow machine.
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone

Hmm, the thing I disagree about them (or alex mostly I guess) at the end is that the message is that it's ok to start things anew, and then using pascal as an example. Yes, Ending E is an opportunity for our trio to start afresh, but the important part, and the thing they emphasized, is that they retained all of their memories, because a big theme throughout the game is that to lose your memories is to lose who you are. A fresh start also means learning from the experiences that you've had beforehand.

Which is why using pascal as an example is bad. Yes, he has a new start I guess, but then he lost all the values that defined him as who he is, even selling the things he valued the most as just useless junk. The after E novellas emphasized that even more.
 

Moaradin

Member
Leaving him is the most cruel thing you can do. Plus it's implied that he kills himself afterwards. Not gonna get a happy outcome no matter what you do, but at least deleting his memories gives you a bit more stuff.
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
I think you can read into an implication that he suicided himself but it's not super implied. I like to think that pascal is strong enough to continue on even with his burdens.
 
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