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No More Heroes 2: Desperate Struggle |OT| of Ultimate Vengeance (loli too)

hellclerk

Everything is tsundere to me
G.O.O. said:
That'll teach me to use less famous Killer 7 quotes :(

Serious, I'd like to be able to pull that kind of work by myself. I was already an admirer of those who discussed the first NMH when I was lurking, it helped me a lot (I even made a chart to analyze each boss).
Heh, it's alright. Text doesn't communicate tone very well. It's as though the internet were effected by the sarcasm speech impediment. The paper isn't really all that great. It's all over the place and just messy. I really should have done better with it, but I had trouble determining a direction.

Dascu said:
Doomed1 is not Handsome Pink.
I'm also not a woman.
 

G.O.O.

Member
At least there is a direction, and I'm pretty sure it could be linked to the destructoid analysis I posted earlier today (you may want to take a look if you didn't already). Therefore, I find it interesting.

It's one of the elements I'll remember when I think about the game a while from now.
 
Flying_Phoenix said:
Replaying the game on bitter mode...WTF IS THIS SHIT!!! This isn't even possible.

You might want to bail out now if you think it's impossible already. The last boss is pretty much as close to impossible as it gets on bitter. It's pretty much all luck. You don't get anything for beating it again so you aren't really missing out on anything.
 
cosmicblizzard said:
You might want to bail out now if you think it's impossible already. The last boss is pretty much as close to impossible as it gets on bitter. It's pretty much all luck. You don't get anything for beating it again so you aren't really missing out on anything.

I mean I ALMOST beat Skelter. I know I can beat him it's just a matter of patience, but really this isn't fun at all it' just stupidly hard and hope you get lucky.

*Sigh* How I miss No More Heroes's difficultly, I mean sure it was a bit too hard and easy at times, but it was satisfying.
 

kinggroin

Banned
Just finished this sequel to my favorite Wii game ever. I'm a bit torn as to whether or not I like it more than the first game, so I'll let it digest a bit.

The ending was meh at first, but the after-credit ending was very touching.

Also did anyone else completely flip out when,
Bat Jr. has his men bring out the heads of Shinobu, Henry, and Sylvia
?

When he spoke about rage, I thought it was the perfect way to get the actual player to feel exactly how Travis should at that moment. Of course, the follow-up had me just as shocked for a totally different reason :lol


As for GOTY contender, it's right now between this and Bayonetta (haven't played US Tats or Mass Effect yet). Bayonetta has the gameplay, No More Heroes the personality. Again, gotta let it digest a bit.
 

Chairhome

Member
Flying_Phoenix said:
I didn't have the peony until the end, and even then I only used it for like 2 minutes before putting it away (it was very boring to use so I went back to dual wield).
Its really slow, but it stuns people so its good against heavies and bosses...
 
Okay, I marathon'd to finish this last night and I'm still collecting my thoughts. One I know I definitely feel to be a fact, and thats that this game needed another 3 or 4 months of dev time. Its unfinished, and no I won't accept "ah thats the empty feeling of Travis' existence that Suda is trying to communicate!" answers so STEP DOWN, PRIVATE. Theres lots of stuff that feels odd and empty and since we also have hacked data thats even more relevant:

- There should have been an overworld. Especially if its the same city as the first game, some edits here and there with new buildings and creative use of them should have been in place. Yes well done on cutting out the requirement to pay before fighting Rank Battles, but the game-world is fractured and completely meaningless without being able to see how the Pizza Batt conglomerate has changed everything.

- Anything to do with the bike. That... segment before fighting Ryuji. Not just the rubbish game of Chicken before, I mean the drive to the location. Was that a fragment of the cut overworld? I don't understand why that was left in. It was just... nothing.

- Severe shortage of weapons. Naomi only has 2 weapons the whole game? You had Henry and Shinobu's weapons with their added quirks, but after playing with them, why didn't they become purchaseable for Travis to use?

- Why is the Scorpion Hunting game not 8-bit? Was this just directly ripped from the previous game? I don't understand. It feels so out of place being the only job thats not 8-bit.

Theres lots of other stuff as well, ranging from the small amount of Revenge Missions with no added plot that we sort of now know was another cut, but still, I have other issues with the game but...

I loved it. And its made an impression as a seriously probably the best Wii game I've played just behind Mario Galaxy. Combat is just fun, especially when dual wielding comes into play. When the game clicks with really good bosses like Margaret, Alice, Ryuji and more, thats when the game is firing on all cylinders. Epic locations, brilliant backing music.

But... then at other times I'd hate the game for completely failing to keep this quality up throughout. The robot battle with Charlie Macdonald was awful stuff, if they'd actually just kept the normal gameplay but with the robot model instead of Travis and the city minaturised as the arena, that could have been seriously fun instead of the shitfest QTE battle we got instead. Chloe Walsh battle seemed completely broken as I just cut her down with nothing hitting me at all, Letz Shake was just an exercise in patience which was boring, and while I loved everything visually and the theme of Vladimir, the actual battle just didn't do it justice. I also suffered from being trapped in Alice's knockdown filled with sabers endless loop as well, so that bit is deffo slightly broken. Truthfully, the game feels like they had some really great solid ideas for 4-5 new rank battles and then just half-arsed the rest to make a full sequel. Which is a real shame.

8-bit games were great, and the training exercises were some real old skool NES masochism. For anyone stuck on the last Attack Power one, I advise switching to a Classic Controller. I did, just for that one minigame, and it made the world of difference being able to tap B instead of squish in a trigger.

So yes, ultimately, I had a great experience. It washed the bad taste of Madworld out of my mouth and is probably my 2nd favourite Wii game. This is probably down almost solely to the Margaret/Reaper rank battle. With that location, the awesome music playing and some really fluid dodging and attacking is when the game clicked for me. If not very hard, it was still a genuinely fun fight. Which is something I can't say for at least half of the game.

♫ Well you're a god damn philistine.. ♫
 
Flying_Phoenix said:
I mean I ALMOST beat Skelter. I know I can beat him it's just a matter of patience, but really this isn't fun at all it' just stupidly hard and hope you get lucky.

*Sigh* How I miss No More Heroes's difficultly, I mean sure it was a bit too hard and easy at times, but it was satisfying.

I posted a great strategy a bit back where you can beat him under 2 minutes.

Every boss is pretty easy if you find their weaknesses, and they all have them.
 

Wizpig

Member
Flying_Phoenix said:
I mean I ALMOST beat Skelter.
Use the "revive Travis" trick and the second sword.
Or the double sword.
Also, button mash the dpad to avoid hits.
And use the "changing swords" glitch.
 

Bizzyb

Banned
Just beat the game....what. the. hell.

Can someone fill me in because I am EXTREMELY lost.

Great game overall btw. They Def need to make a directors cut though because as others have said I feel that the game was unfinished in MANY areas.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I put this game on hold while I marathoned Mass Effect 2. Finally got back into it. I'm up to the boss thats
the grim reaper girl
. Fucking hell its so fucking hard. Really insanely hard. I have to be missing something.
 

Easy_D

never left the stone age
Bizzyb said:
Just beat the game....what. the. hell.

Can someone fill me in because I am EXTREMELY lost.

Great game overall btw. They Def need to make a directors cut though because as others have said I feel that the game was unfinished in MANY areas.
Why? It felt much more finished than the first game, except the overworld which was cut because of lacking quality, if I remember right.

But I suppose you have your opinion and I have mine.
 

Dascu

Member
EatChildren said:
I put this game on hold while I marathoned Mass Effect 2. Finally got back into it. I'm up to the boss thats
the grim reaper girl
. Fucking hell its so fucking hard. Really insanely hard. I have to be missing something.
You're aware you can just roll around her shots, right?
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Dascu said:
You're aware you can just roll around her shots, right?

Yeah, but I'm really shit :<
 

G.O.O.

Member
I don't think it's the way it is to make sense, it's more symbolic.

Though, you can suppose that
the UAA died with the guy who owned the city (Batt Jr), so Sylvia had to find something to do with her life and started working at a peep show.

About why she left Travis at the motel before disappearing, I'd say guilt. Seeking redemption after leaving a job about people killing other people.
 
Whoa whoa whoa the
UAA disformed!?
the game didn't make that apparent to me after I finished it.

Wizpig said:
Use the "revive Travis" trick and the second sword.
Or the double sword.
Also, button mash the dpad to avoid hits.
And use the "changing swords" glitch.

The problem is that when I start hitting him after the break he isn't consistent in his recovery so he starts to counter me when I don't expect it.
 
Here's my Skelter strategy from a few pages back:

Use your double beam Katanas. Stay as close as possible, and do the emergency evade forward while he shoots his gun. When he goes into melee attacks dodge (emergency evade or just plain old get out of the way), but stay close enough so you can run back to him when he stops attacking and mash him. When he's on the ground do a low attack, so you can get some extra hits. Repeat.
 

Margalis

Banned
Just beat bitter. Damn the second form of the last boss. I just could not figure out a good strategy once he starts teleport punching, and especially once he mixes in the whirlwind punch. Even though I did beat him I don't feel like I earned it, I just kept trying and eventually got lucky.
\

But... then at other times I'd hate the game for completely failing to keep this quality up throughout. The robot battle with Charlie Macdonald was awful stuff, if they'd actually just kept the normal gameplay but with the robot model instead of Travis and the city minaturised as the arena, that could have been seriously fun instead of the shitfest QTE battle we got instead. Chloe Walsh battle seemed completely broken as I just cut her down with nothing hitting me at all, Letz Shake was just an exercise in patience which was boring, and while I loved everything visually and the theme of Vladimir, the actual battle just didn't do it justice. I also suffered from being trapped in Alice's knockdown filled with sabers endless loop as well, so that bit is deffo slightly broken. Truthfully, the game feels like they had some really great solid ideas for 4-5 new rank battles and then just half-arsed the rest to make a full sequel. Which is a real shame.

Everything you said here is spot on. Chloe is just weird, even on bitter she's a joke. The difficulty on this one is just all over the place. I loved seeing Letz Shake again but his actual battle is very basic. I liked NMH2 quite a bit but it is certainly more uneven than the first.
 

Giolon

Member
I finally got back around to finishing the game tonight - and wow let me say this game sure gets good just as its ending. I thought the final 4 bosses were the best in the game, with the high point being #4, followed closely by #2. I was also glad to see that the amount of saber fodder ramped up during the latter half as well.

I was a bit confused by the ending and its relationship to the whole peep show motif going on throughout the game. I really don't understand
why Silvia was there and why Travis was there either
. And where did
Shinobu
run off to?

All in all, I liked the first game a lot better, but NMH2 certainly went out with a bang, and a fairly strong second half.

"Philistine" is right up there with "Pleather for Breakfast".
 

Sagitario

Member
Just got this game, I'll probably start it when I finish NSMBW...

Any tips or things I should be aware off?
And what's this about missable bosses?
 
It was weird hearing everyone have problems with the Final Boss because I beat him pretty easily despite the teleporting punches, but the one thing that got me was his First Form. I wailed on him for like 10 minutes straight in a haze of bloodlust, not realising his health wasn't going down until I twigged "shitty videogame logic" was at play and I had to purposely let one of his telegraphed car swoops hit me for a dumbass QTE. That was remarkably poorly designed :/
 

John Harker

Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Flying_Phoenix said:
Whoa whoa whoa the
UAA disformed!?
the game didn't make that apparent to me after I finished it.



The problem is that when I start hitting him after the break he isn't consistent in his recovery so he starts to counter me when I don't expect it.

disformed? it never even existed :D
 

Christine

Member
Well, I beat the game. It's a great game, it's not as fresh or radical as the first, but that's fairly inevitable as it's a sequel.
Cloe Walsh is just broken, there's no fight to that fight.

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is that on
the drive to fight Ryoji, running into obstacles actually refills your nitro... so the fastest way to do that segment is to hold the nitro down and plow through everything. There's a perverse kind of logic at play there.
I am disappointed that they didn't make better use of the Spieltiger, especially as you don't get to drive it around Santa Destroy. I'm also saddened by the absence of TIE Riders, although I have an obvious bias on this point.

I liked the pre-credits ending, it has one line
(Sylvia!? Now this is paradise.)
which sets it nicely in juxtaposition to the hyper-verbose "true" ending of the first game, while at the same time chorusing the same reference to Travis' monologue during the Death Metal fight.

There's more I'd like to say about the game, but I think I need to play through again to solidify some of my ideas about it.
 

Poyunch

Member
John Harker said:
disformed? it never even existed :D
Batt Jr. funded the UAA this time around so it was surviving/formed through him. Killing him probably caused the whole system to break.

Giolon said:
I finally got back around to finishing the game tonight - and wow let me say this game sure gets good just as its ending. I thought the final 4 bosses were the best in the game, with the high point being #4, followed closely by #2. I was also glad to see that the amount of saber fodder ramped up during the latter half as well.

I was a bit confused by the ending and its relationship to the whole peep show motif going on throughout the game. I really don't understand
why Silvia was there and why Travis was there either
. And where did
Shinobu
run off to?

All in all, I liked the first game a lot better, but NMH2 certainly went out with a bang, and a fairly strong second half.

"Philistine" is right up there with "Pleather for Breakfast".
It's implied that the peep show events occurred some time after NMH2. For some reason Sylvia lost her job as an UAA agent and she found herself working at a peep show. The peep show basically is her retelling the events of NMH2 to a frequent customer (revealed to be Travis).

I'm assuming that she lost her job because the UAA fell apart so she had to resort to that sort of work and her retelling the events of NMH2 is probably because of the significance of those events which eventually led to her losing her original job.
 

Jangaroo

Always the tag bridesmaid, never the tag bride.
PounchEnvy said:
Batt Jr. funded the UAA this time around so it was surviving/formed through him. Killing him probably caused the whole system to break.


It's implied that the peep show events occurred some time after NMH2. For some reason Sylvia lost her job as an UAA agent and she found herself working at a peep show. The peep show basically is her retelling the events of NMH2 to a frequent customer (revealed to be Travis).

I'm assuming that she lost her job because the UAA fell apart so she had to resort to that sort of work and her retelling the events of NMH2 is probably because of the significance of those events which eventually led to her losing her original job.
Yeah that's pretty much how it goes ending wise. I just beat the game this morning and I'm kind of surprised by how serious this game was. Sure, it still had it's crazy, random, quirky moments, but I was expecting a balls out, jaw hanging ending like the first game. Instead, we got something completely opposite from that.
The last scene with Sylvia and Travis in the peep show room was kind of touching.
Also, screw that last muscle training mini game. I feel like such a sissy only having done 6/7 events.
 

hellclerk

Everything is tsundere to me
TwinIonEngines said:
Well, I beat the game. It's a great game, it's not as fresh or radical as the first, but that's fairly inevitable as it's a sequel.
Cloe Walsh is just broken, there's no fight to that fight.

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is that on
the drive to fight Ryoji, running into obstacles actually refills your nitro... so the fastest way to do that segment is to hold the nitro down and plow through everything. There's a perverse kind of logic at play there.
I am disappointed that they didn't make better use of the Spieltiger, especially as you don't get to drive it around Santa Destroy. I'm also saddened by the absence of TIE Riders, although I have an obvious bias on this point.

I liked the pre-credits ending, it has one line
(Sylvia!? Now this is paradise.)
which sets it nicely in juxtaposition to the hyper-verbose "true" ending of the first game, while at the same time chorusing the same reference to Travis' monologue during the Death Metal fight.

There's more I'd like to say about the game, but I think I need to play through again to solidify some of my ideas about it.
what did you think of my globalist reading of the game? I posted it a page back.
 

Magypsy23

Banned
I just started this recently. Why is the frame rate during cutscenes so bad? The actual game seems pretty smooth, but cutscenes are nauseating. I cleaned the lens but there was no difference whatsoever.
 

Caj814

Member
silverbullet1080 said:
Why does he want to know though...

My guess is just so he can get a good idea on whether she really wants to go back with him or not since she sounds more and more depressed the further she goes on :lol
 

G.O.O.

Member
PounchEnvy said:
What's more important is why did it take Travis so long to tell Sylvia who he was?
Takes time for him to stop looking her like she was a living sex toy ?

Holy shit, when the NMH1 theme kicks in for the last stage..holy shit. Goosebumps.
YES ! That was unexpected.
 

heringer

Member
Finished yesterday. Good game, but count me on the team that liked the first better. I just feel that Desperate Struggle is the No More Heroes made for people who didn't like the first one.

It's more polished, better looking, the world map is better and the minigames are simply awesome. Those are great additions, but I felt like they forgot what made No More Heroes so great in the first place. The story isn't nearly as charming, Travis isn't as lovable, the bosses lack personality and aren't well fleshed out and the ending... well, I didn't like it.
 

Caj814

Member
G.O.O. said:
Takes time for him to stop looking her like she was a living sex toy ?


YES ! That was unexpected.

You're right in that regard when you see the balled up tissues in one of the scenes :lol
 

Christine

Member
doomed1 said:
what did you think of my globalist reading of the game? I posted it a page back.

It's not the approach I'd take, but there's certainly some potential there. I hope you continue working on the essay, right now it feels incomplete - you've laid the groundwork of explaining your framework for analysis, and made some good allusions connecting this thematic element of the games to their place in Suda's body of work and in the industry of the medium they inhabit, but I feel you've come up short when it comes to using it to shed illumination on the content of the games.

Also, your references to Otaku and Empire are just kind of hanging there, your thoughts about how these works apply to NMH or vice versa aren't explained in nearly enough detail.
 

G.O.O.

Member
So there was a namco bandai partners conference in Paris today with Suda 51. NMH2 will be out on April the 30th in France, don't know about the rest of Europe but shouldn't it be the same ?
 

Dascu

Member
G.O.O. said:
So there was a namco bandai partners conference in Paris today with Suda 51. NMH2 will be out on April the 30th in France, don't know about the rest of Europe but shouldn't it be the same ?
What on earth does Namco have to do with this?
 

G.O.O.

Member
The game is distributed by them here. The first was distributed by atari and got delayed by a few days because of their financial difficulties.
 

Sagitario

Member
Wizpig said:
Just... go to the Motel after beating a boss.
Don't start a boss after you just finished another one if the game lets you do so.

Thanks...
Is that the only thing I should be aware of? No more stuff you can miss for good?
 

hellclerk

Everything is tsundere to me
TwinIonEngines said:
It's not the approach I'd take, but there's certainly some potential there. I hope you continue working on the essay, right now it feels incomplete - you've laid the groundwork of explaining your framework for analysis, and made some good allusions connecting this thematic element of the games to their place in Suda's body of work and in the industry of the medium they inhabit, but I feel you've come up short when it comes to using it to shed illumination on the content of the games.

Also, your references to Otaku and Empire are just kind of hanging there, your thoughts about how these works apply to NMH or vice versa aren't explained in nearly enough detail.
Well, it was an assignment, so I don't really have much motivation to continue on it for now. As for how it's incomplete, or at least unspecific, I'm fully aware of that. I had more material than I had time or space on the page, so I ended up not getting too specific. The Otaku reference was entirely cultural, basically a disguised "for further reading" on a concept that I didn't really want to deeply explain. The Empire reference was unfortunately a victim of how broad I was being. I was taking a concept and applying it to the medium after exploring the various *ehem* global aspects of the franchise. I'm going to keep to my Jungian (within the realm of the archetypical bosses) psycho-sexual reading of the first game, but the second game doesn't really expand on that reading. Rather it moves to the punk in it's anti-corporate globalist stance that came to in the 70s and 80s with the origin of the punk movement.
 
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