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[theREBELins]

I'm still good with DOA4. Still waiting for the 100 hours achievement.

 

[Mooreberg]

the vast majority of western developers are obsessed with or only really care about FPS/war games.

Because that's what most of their audience is buying. But I agree it would be nice to see some better efforts than stuff like Tao Feng.

 

[Lyte Edge]

Also wanted to add that my PSP is turning into THE fighting game platform. Street Fighter Alpha 3, Tekken 5, Powerstone Collection, and Guilty Gear Reload/Judgement (which is ****ing awesome btw, beat-em-up revival FTW!)

For portables, sure, but THE fighting game platform remains the Playstation 2. More specifically, the Japanese Playstation 2, which in the past year got a ton of fighting game releases. On top of that, some of the games are playable ONLINE, so I don't get why these companies didn't try porting one or two of their titles to the Xbox 360 as well. Games like Neo-Geo Battle Coliseum, Samurai Spirits TK, KOF Maximum Impact 2, KOF XI, and even Power Instinct Matrimelee all have online play on PS2 in Japan.

I think if the 360 got some games like Melty Blood Act Cadenza, Guilty Gear XX Slash (or the next upgrade currently testing in arcades), and KOF XI, they could sell decently enough.

If it were to get Soul Calibur or Marvel vs Capcom 2 or something, it'd be the platform with almost every top fighter ever made. Pretty kickass.

I'd really, REALLY like to see Soul Calibur III ported to PSP, and it shouldn't be a problem for Namco after how amazing Tekken 5 DR was. What's missing from the PSP line-up are SNK's games. And how about Project Justice instead of "boring after 10 minutes of play time" Powerstone?

 

[Mana Knight]

It's the Namco's and the Sega's that suffer from their decision not to put their games on the 360. There's a market for them, and they are just turning a blind eye to it with their most popular franchies. Their own mistakes .

Most Xbox fans hate Namco fighters. They seem to be the only ones who truly despise Tekken (probably because it never appears on their platform) and bashed SC3 constantly.

 

[HocusPocus]

Most Xbox fans hate Namco fighters. They seem to be the only ones who truly despise Tekken (probably because it never appears on their platform) and bashed SC3 constantly.

Umm I don't think many Xbox owners are bashing Soul Calibur. hehe

 

[klee123]

Umm I don't think many Xbox owners are bashing Soul Calibur. hehe

When it's a PS2 exclusive game, they will.

 

[PleoMax]

MS has really dropped the ball on the fighter department. They don't seem to be concerned that none of the Xbox1 top tier games work on 360 and they don't seem to care that all the new fighters are not coming to 360.

Aside from Tekken and Doa and well Mortal Kombat...fighters don't sell that well anymore. Even those, they sell "good" but i can see why for Any Manufacturer its sorta like "meh...if 3rd partys make it cool, if they don't well **** it" :lol

 

[DrDogg]

Aside from Tekken and Doa and well Mortal Kombat...fighters don't sell that well anymore. Even those, they sell "good" but i can see why for Any Manufacturer its sorta like "meh...if 3rd partys make it cool, if they don't well **** it" :lol

Virtua Fighter and Soul Calibur sell just fine. Basically, all of the main fighters that have been around since the PS1 days (or before) are still going strong at 1 million+ for each installment. A bad game is a bad game, but which fighters are you referring to that didn't sell well that should have sold well?

 

[PleoMax]

Virtua Fighter and Soul Calibur sell just fine. Basically, all of the main fighters that have been around since the PS1 days (or before) are still going strong at 1 million+ for each installment. A bad game is a bad game, but which fighters are you referring to that didn't sell well that should have sold well?

Never said a game should have sold well and it didn't.... I'm just saying they don't sell that well, last i saw it Vf4 was at half a million, SC3 was the worst selling SC yet...

Just sayin, its not a huge genre, but i guess i may bit a bit biased because aside from mortal Kombat 3 and Street Fighter 2, both on the genesis, i never cared for it. Sorry if i sound like a jackass torwards the genre.

 

[WrathOfOtaibah]

If Rare thinks KI won't do well why don't they release KI1 on XBLA? The development costs would be considerably lower and it would be a decent way to gauge interest.

Releasing a port is not a good indicator of how well a sequel will do. The costs, both from production to on the shelves, are very different. KI might get 50,000 downloads and would cost only a few thousand dollars. Would that be enough to warrant KI3, which will probably cost a few million dollars? Not to mention promotions, advertisement.

Its like I said, Rare has a clue of what they are doing. They're not putting out a new Killer Instinct because I imagine the market would not accept it. Unless the series tried to reinvent itself and not rely on the name alone. Even then, I doubt "Killer Instinct" is that hot of a name that will cause at least a million gamers to purchase it. In which case, why even call it Killer Instinct at all?

The only scenario I see that working is if Microsoft realizes there is a fighter drought and asks Rare to make KI3. I can't see them wanting to do it on their own.

 

[TreIII]

MS has really dropped the ball on the fighter department. They don't seem to be concerned that none of the Xbox1 top tier games work on 360 and they don't seem to care that all the new fighters are not coming to 360.

Well, honestly? You can't blame MS for putting such a low emphasis on fighters. This isn't the mid-to-late 90s any more; fighters had their time in the sun where it seemed like your console was SOL without a port of the newest Street Fighter/Tekken/Virtual Fighter on it, or a strong title like Soul Calibur to launch with. Stories of a fighting game doing really well now-a-days are limited to the likes of Mortal Kombat, import GC Naruto games, and recently, Melty Blood: Act Cadenza.

If the likes of KOF XII, Tekken 6, Soul Calibur 4, and, so-help-me-if-EGM-isn't-spreading-rubbish, Street Fighter 4 turn the tides again in the fighting game's favor, then we'll see all consoles changing their focus to accomodate it. But until that time, fighting games are always going to pertain to an underground market, and that market will go where its the developers and fanbase think its best.

In other words, if the 360 hopes to be a viable platform, the fans have gotta make sure the presence is known...get SNK USA to put more games on Live Arcade or something!

 

[Tain]

And how about Project Justice instead of "boring after 10 minutes of play time" Powerstone?

oh no you di'int.

 

[Rookies1stDay]

Guilty Gear X2: Accent Core for Live Arcade. Make it happen Sammy.

And don't **** up the netcode this time so we can get some online games going

 

[LakeEarth]

Guilty Gear X2: Accent Core for Live Arcade. Make it happen Sammy.

And don't **** up the netcode this time so we can get some online games going

I don't know if that's possible. GG uses high-res sprites, there's no way they'll be able to keep the game small enough. It'd have to be a DVD release.

 

[DrDogg]

Releasing a port is not a good indicator of how well a sequel will do. The costs, both from production to on the shelves, are very different. KI might get 50,000 downloads and would cost only a few thousand dollars. Would that be enough to warrant KI3, which will probably cost a few million dollars? Not to mention promotions, advertisement.

Its like I said, Rare has a clue of what they are doing. They're not putting out a new Killer Instinct because I imagine the market would not accept it. Unless the series tried to reinvent itself and not rely on the name alone. Even then, I doubt "Killer Instinct" is that hot of a name that will cause at least a million gamers to purchase it. In which case, why even call it Killer Instinct at all?

The only scenario I see that working is if Microsoft realizes there is a fighter drought and asks Rare to make KI3. I can't see them wanting to do it on their own.

So KI1 doing well on XBLA is no indication at all that a "good" KI3 (good as in at least as good as KI1 was back in the day) would not sell well in a market void of competition?

And Rare knows what they're doing? That's why we got Grabbed by the Ghoulies which sold much better than KI3 would have right? If there's ZERO competition there's no reason why KI3 would not sell well enough to make it worth the effort.

 

[Rookies1stDay]

I don't know if that's possible. GG uses high-res sprites, there's no way they'll be able to keep the game small enough. It'd have to be a DVD release.

I thought they did away with the size limitations for Arcade games? I dunno where I heard that from but it stuck with me

 

[DCharlie]

aren't we forgetting VF5 here?

 

[DrDogg]

aren't we forgetting VF5 here?

No, we're very well aware it will be hitting the PS3 exclusively in Spring 2007.

 

[DCharlie]

No, we're very well aware it will be hitting the PS3 exclusively in Spring 2007.

yes, but the X360 version might well hit before the end of 2007 i'd have thought.

 

[Xenon]

Fighters won't change much, and if they do, they're not fighters anymore. IE Smash Bros, Bushido Blade, Ehrgeiz and Power Stone to a degree. You need the basics: the life bar, the distinct move lists, otherwise it's just an action party game. The more random events, pickups and platforming you're adding, the more you're moving quickly past Samurai Shodown, Dead or Alive, into Guardian Heroes and on to Gauntlet.

You think that games should stick to the basics and play just as they always have. Madden is a perfect example of the result of this logic. It’s the core audience of fighters that has run the genre into the dead end it resides in. As long as enough people are willing to shell out cash for a few extra character, new moves, tweaked engine, and improved graphics companies like Sega, Namco, Techmo, and Capcom have no incentive to make something new.

 

[LakeEarth]

I thought they did away with the size limitations for Arcade games? I dunno where I heard that from but it stuck with me

Its still in place. There are rumors it might be raised when the 256mb memory cards come out, but its never been confirmed. I do hope they raise the maximum, 3rd Strike is just barely over the current max.

 

[qcf x2]

Fighters are almost dead. Anyway, how well does VF even sell in the US? I know it sells well in Japan, but I don't personally know a single person who owns a(ny) VF game.

I'd like for MS to let me play SF:AC on 360, but I'm now realizing that, like SF4, Shenmue 3, Shining Force 4, and a Panzer Dragoon Saga sequel/remake, it's more than likely not happening.

I don't think people enjoy one-on-one things as much as they used to. Now everything competitive involves dozens people (racing, FPS), except for sports....and even then, you usually have the whole team thing going on.There are a few exceptions, though, like Fight Night and tennis.

Fighters used to be my favorite games, and 3rd Strike is still the GOAT in my opinion, but the genre has been so stagnant for so long that it might as well be dead.

 

[The End]

I could see a pseudo-persistent Yakuza type game being the next big leap in fighting. You'd have a city you'd "live" in and a base move list you could tweak by training with more experienced characters, dojo masters, that sort of thing.

 

[D3VI0US]

If SC4 is a lock for PS3 that's a system seller. I think that for fighters to regain a foothold in the market they have to come online. Hardcores can bitch and whine about lag all they want but it's more about getting casuals into it. Not everyone needs arcade perfect gameplay to enjoy it, but they do need people to play with. God that EGM rumor has me dreaming of SF4 too, how ****ing great would that be.

 

[Anyanka]

Fighters are almost dead. Anyway, how well does VF even sell in the US? I know it sells well in Japan, but I don't personally know a single person who owns a(ny) VF game.
.

VF4 and Evo combined sold like a million in the US. Like Jarrod pointed out, that's better then Japan. The whole thing about console VF bombing in America and being huge in Japan is a misconception.

 

[jarrod]

VF4 and Evo combined sold like a million in the US. Like Jarrod pointed out, that's better then Japan. The whole thing about console VF bombing in America and being huge in Japan is a misconception.

Well, it wasn't on SEGA platforms (Saturn & Dreamcast)... though VF never really "bombed" here exactly. On PS2 though, America became VF's biggest market... I'd imagine a 360 version of VF5 would do rather well honestly. Hell, even the Xbox version of SC2 managed to outsell the exclsuive PS2 SC3 and even outsold SC1 Dreamcast everywhere but Japan... there's definitely a strong US market for traditional fighters on the Xbox platforms.

 

[PG2G]

The genre isn't what it used to be, IMO. I don't think there's as much of a market for fighters anymore

 

[Fatghost]

yes, but the X360 version might well hit before the end of 2007 i'd have thought.

There is no X360 version.

 

[Luckyman]

yes, but the X360 version might well hit before the end of 2007 i'd have thought.

What have you done.

 

[klee123]

Well like how MS is paying for exclusives like Bioshock and Spilnter cell 5, perhaps Sony is paying Sega for VF5 to be exclusive for PS3. Sega stating that VF5 being PS3 exclusive to me is as concrete as when take 2 stated that Bioshock would be exclusive to PC and 360.

 

[jarrod]

There is no X360 version.

Not now, but hopefully that change in the future.

 

[Fatghost]

Not now, but hopefully that change in the future.

Hopefully soon, VF5 is the only reason I'm getting a PS3.

But Sega hates money.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

When it's a PS2 exclusive game, they will.

Funny. I thought Soul Calibur 3 was a busted piece of shit. Soul Calibur 1 & 2 were honestly fairly lousy as well(at least in hindsight, back when SC1 first came out I thought it was the best fighter ever...then VF4 came out)
This is coming from a PS2 and future PS3 owner.

But yeah the PS2 is the system for fighters, really there's no competition.

NeoGeo Battle Coliseum
Third Strike
Alpha/Zero 1-3
VF4 & Evo
Tekken Tag & 5
Samurai Spirits Tenka
Vampire Savior collection
KoF 98(soon), 2002, and XI.
Guilty Gear XX Slash(Accent Core in the future I imagine)

Oh and also be sure to buy a DC
Capcom Vs SNK 2
Marvel Vs Capcom 2

And that about covers it I do believe. There's a few dozen more but I can't remember them off the top of my head.

With PS3 bringing VF5 there's really no good reason to get an X360 for fighters unless MS/Capcom/Namco/Sega/SNK/???? can manage a gargantuan number of releases just to match let alone surpass the PS2.

Also the US vs Japan thing in regards to VF. In the US they buy the games while in Japan they play in the arcades. Honestly I think they got the better end of the deal(especially after watching the VF.net video)

Also fighters are rapidly approaching "niche" status again. Unless of course someone can provide a decent list of next-gen fighters out or on the way.(Aside from VF5 and DoA 4 we have what? a bunch of enhanced PS2 ports?)

EDIT: Sony is paying for VF5 exclusivity purely to torture me.

 

[jarrod]

Hopefully soon, VF5 is the only reason I'm getting a PS3.

But Sega hates money.

Well, 360's already managed to snag formerly PS2 only franchises like Virtua Tennis and Sega Rally this time around, which is a good sign... PS3 not have 20m+ lead out the gates sort of helps versus the last gen multiconsole dynamic, it's really in SEGA's best interestes to try and have all their titles across 360 & PS3 if possible thanks to higher costs and more spread bases... I think for VF5 360 though, we'll likely have to wait for the inevitable tb/Evo/FT-styled update.

 

[Bad_Boy]

so whats the count for 2007?

360
Soul Calibur 4?
Mortal Kombat Next Gen
Def Jam 3

PS3
Def Jam 3
Virtua Fighter 5
Mortal Kombat Next Gen
Tekken 6
Soul Calibur 4?

Wii
Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi 2 *(should be 2006 title though, 2007 for the rest of the world)
Mortal Kombat: Armageddon
Bleach
Soul Calibur 4?

probably a couple unannounced, but thats a rough list I guess.

 

[Fatghost]

Well, 360's already managed to snag formerly PS2 only franchises like Virtua Tennis and Sega Rally this time around, which is a good sign... PS3 not have 20m+ lead out the gates sort of helps versus the last gen multiconsole dynamic, it's really in SEGA's best interestes to try and have all their titles across 360 & PS3 if possible thanks to higher costs and more spread bases... I think for VF5 360 though, we'll likely have to wait for the inevitable tb/Evo/FT-styled update.

Last gen we kept getting teased into believing VF4/Evo/Final Tuned was heading to Xbox. I just don't think it's happening.

If it was Capcom, or Konami, or any other company, I'd believe it, but Sega doesn't operate based on making good business decisions...just because it makes sense, doesn't mean Sega will do it, unfortunately.

 

[klee123]

Well, 360's already managed to snag formerly PS2 only franchises like Virtua Tennis and Sega Rally this time around, which is a good sign... PS3 not have 20m+ lead out the gates sort of helps versus the last gen multiconsole dynamic, it's really in SEGA's best interestes to try and have all their titles across 360 & PS3 if possible thanks to higher costs and more spread bases... I think for VF5 360 though, we'll likely have to wait for the inevitable tb/Evo/FT-styled update.

I think it's more like that Sega hates money in general. By your logic, Sega should have ported every single X-box exclusive title to the PS2 because it has a much higher installed base compared to the X-box.

 

[jarrod]

Last gen we kept getting teased into believing VF4/Evo/Final Tuned was heading to Xbox. I just don't think it's happening.

If it was Capcom, or Konami, or any other company, I'd believe it, but Sega doesn't operate based on making good business decisions...just because it makes sense, doesn't mean Sega will do it, unfortunately.

Well, last gen was quite a bit different in terms of R&D costs, userbases, genre popularity and even SEGA's management... pointing out VF4's exclusivity seems to be the main case for ensuring VF5's exclusivity, but when you look at the factors that led to VF4's exclsuivity, things look to be quite a bit different now for VF5. Xbox 1 missing out on Sega Rally 2005 and Virtua Tennis 2 certainly isn't keeping those brands off 360 at least... I dunno why it's naturally assumed VF would be any different?

 

[Fatghost]

Well, last gen was quite a bit different in terms of R&D costs, userbases, genre popularity and even SEGA's management... pointing out VF4's exclusivity seems to be the main case for ensuring VF5's exclusivity, but when you look at the factors that led to VF4's exclsuivity, things look to be quite a bit different now for VF5. Xbox 1 missing out on Sega Rally 2005 and Virtua Tennis 2 certainly isn't keeping those brands off 360 at least... I dunno why it's naturally assumed VF would be any different?

Well, the fact that VT and Sega Rally are multi platform from the getgo while VF5 is still announced exclusive makes it certainly seem like VF5 is different.

I really hope I'm wrong, but I think it's pretty clear VF5 is going to stay exclusive.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

I think it's more like that Sega hates money in general. By your logic, Sega should have ported every single X-box exclusive title to the PS2 because it has a much higher installed base compared to the X-box.

Yeah they should've.

Maybe if they did I'd have a next-gen Panzer Dragoon to look forward to.

 

[klee123]

Funny. I thought Soul Calibur 3 was a busted piece of shit. Soul Calibur 1 & 2 were honestly fairly lousy as well(at least in hindsight, back when SC1 first came out I thought it was the best fighter ever...then VF4 came out)
This is coming from a PS2 and future PS3 owner.

I kinda agree with you on this. SC3's battle system felt so half arsed, as it was obvious that Namco was focusing on the "create your character mode" and other single player modes. Basically, they made the game like MK deception which focused more on single player modes than the actual fighting.

Due to how badly SCIII was made, I really don't have much faith in SCIV.

 

[jarrod]

I think it's more like that Sega hates money in general. By your logic, Sega should have ported every single X-box exclusive title to the PS2 because it has a much higher installed base compared to the X-box.

Last gen, they certainly should have. Going "platform agnostic" nearly sunk SEGA even without hardware burdens, they should've been making all games on all platforms since day one last gen... I can't understand why it's taking Japanese publishers so long to figure out the obvious, how do they think firms like Ubisoft or Activision got where they are today?

 

[jarrod]

Well, the fact that VT and Sega Rally are multi platform from the getgo while VF5 is still announced exclusive makes it certainly seem like VF5 is different.

I really hope I'm wrong, but I think it's pretty clear VF5 is going to stay exclusive.

Well sure... there's clearly at least some sort of negociated window for VF5. But pointing towards VF4 as some sort of irreversable indicator is just sort of stupid.

 

[Brofist]

Well, last gen was quite a bit different in terms of R&D costs, userbases, genre popularity and even SEGA's management... pointing out VF4's exclusivity seems to be the main case for ensuring VF5's exclusivity, but when you look at the factors that led to VF4's exclsuivity, things look to be quite a bit different now for VF5. Xbox 1 missing out on Sega Rally 2005 and Virtua Tennis 2 certainly isn't keeping those brands off 360 at least... I dunno why it's naturally assumed VF would be any different?

Well I would say there is a stronger case for exclusivity than the (weak) speculation you are throwing out there. I'm sure you could throw out enough speculation and reason for the Wii to get a version if you really want.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

I kinda agree with you on this. SC3's battle system felt so half arsed, as it was obvious that Namco was focusing on the "create your character mode" and other single player modes. Basically, they made the game like MK deception which focused more on single player modes than the actual fighting.

Due to how badly SCIII was made, I really don't have much faith in SCIV.

Pretty much. There was also that nice little savegame-killing bug, the horrible story mode, the terribly unbalanced characters, etc.

There's a reason why fighting games should start in arcades. Course it doesn't help matters that the arcade-scene is mostly dead in the US(No VF5 arcade release ow it burns).

 

[jarrod]

Well I would say there is a stronger case for exclusivity than the (weak) speculation you are throwing out there. I'm sure you could throw out enough speculation and reason for the Wii to get a version if you really want.

I'm just saying, the markets are different this time around. About the only solid reason for keeping VF5 off 360 is moneyhats, which I'll admit is rather somewhat likely even.

If your reasoning for VF5 staying exclusive is chiefly a VF4 comparison though... well then I'm not the only one pushing "weak speculation" around here.

 

[Manp]

VF4 and Evo combined sold like a million in the US. Like Jarrod pointed out, that's better then Japan. The whole thing about console VF bombing in America and being huge in Japan is a misconception.

so, assuming that when VF5 will be released the Xbox 360's userbase (in USA) will still be bigger than PS3's, the only thing that stop them from doing a 360 version is that they hate MS? or moneyhats?

i'm probably missing something, right?

 

[SolidSnakex]

Well, last gen was quite a bit different in terms of R&D costs, userbases, genre popularity and even SEGA's management... pointing out VF4's exclusivity seems to be the main case for ensuring VF5's exclusivity, but when you look at the factors that led to VF4's exclsuivity, things look to be quite a bit different now for VF5. Xbox 1 missing out on Sega Rally 2005 and Virtua Tennis 2 certainly isn't keeping those brands off 360 at least... I dunno why it's naturally assumed VF would be any different?

You could throw in the PS3's hardware and Blu Ray (which came straight from the producer of the game, I think it was him) as other reasons for it being exclusive.

 

[jarrod]

I think it's safe to say some level of "Sony incentives" are already in place for VF5, at least for a window period.

Hopefully SEGA pulls another "Full Auto" though and gives us a Sumo converted Virtua Fighter 5tb on Xbox 360 around the end of next year.

 

[jarrod]

You could throw in the PS3's hardware and Blu Ray (which came straight from the producer of the game, I think it was him) as other reasons for it being exclusive.

Blu-Ray's the new PR button Sony's convincing developers to push. I don't see why a 1GB arcade port needs more than 8GB of disc space really though. Hell, VF4 was on CD-ROM even iirc, if VF5 followed the logic of needing something like 10 times the space, DVD would still be fine.