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[Mooreberg]

I'm not sure, this could theoretically make them even better honeypot banning threads than they already are

Or the threads will just fall off of the first page once people realize it is a bunch of garbage. Sounds like a winning scenario either way!

 

[Boney]

That will just make it more fun to watch!

Just remove gentleman Wii and add him as a barbaric monkey and that's what you want I guess...

 

[apana]

I dont understand how anyone can keep a lid on these numbers. Someone who has access could just post it anonymously on the net.

 

[Sean]

So are websites that subscribe to NPD (like IGN) still allowed to list certain sales figures? Or is that not allowed under these new rules?

The quote in the OP makes it sound like you can only release data for your own products.

 

[Ether_Snake]

This means September sales were probably down, which is freaking out the industry.

 

[chubigans]

I dont understand how anyone can keep a lid on these numbers. Someone who has access could just post it anonymously on the net.

They always have a way of tracking those people down. We had a guy like that...not anymore.

 

[Corto]

I dont understand how anyone can keep a lid on these numbers. Someone who has access could just post it anonymously on the net.

Of course NPD could set a canary trap, releasing slightly different numbers to different sources and then the numbers that were posted would uncover the source of the leak. Muahuahuahua

 

[cosmicblizzard]

I dont understand how anyone can keep a lid on these numbers. Someone who has access could just post it anonymously on the net.

Wouldn't that just be labeled "rumor" then? I imagine we'll be getting a lot of made up numbers in that case with no way to confirm.

 

[apana]

Unless each company gets different numbers, they wont be able to track down who leaked it. If someone posts it on NeoGaf, the site wont be obligated to snitch on him right?

 

[Mudkips]

Of course NPD could set a canary trap, releasing slightly different numbers to different sources and then the numbers that were posted would uncover the source of the leak. Muahuahuahua

Find others with the info and average the data, then leak the averaged numbers, trimmed to 2 significant figures.

If you're really paranoid, do the same thing but only release the numbers every 2 months, as the totals for the 2 months.

 

[Zaphod]

Unless each company gets different numbers, they wont be able to track down who leaked it. If someone posts it on NeoGaf, the site wont be obligated to snitch on him right?

The false number trick happened the last time we had a source.

 

[UncleSporky]

Of course NPD could set a canary trap, releasing slightly different numbers to different sources and then the numbers that were posted would uncover the source of the leak. Muahuahuahua

Then you just adjust every number up or down 10% and say it has a 5% margin of error. They'll expect to be able to catch you with a small adjustment but you should still be significantly safe.

That, or you have two leakers compare their data to see what NPD's range is.

EDIT: Beat'd

 

[onken]

Aren't monopolies fantastic? Everyone wishing for a one console future pay attention.

Anyway, kinda torn over this. I do love a good bit of sales-age but on the other hand the NPD threads were the shame of GAF, and I have no connection to the US in anyway so the numbers don't really interest methat much, meh.

 

[apana]

So once NPD figures out that the numbers are being leaked they send a company a list with fake numbers on it? How can they do that? People are paying good money for the real numbers.

 

[donny2112]

How much does it cost to subscribe?

$10,000 per month. per month.

 

[RainbowByte]

terrible news, I guess we can look forward to douchebag industry analysts that subscribe to NPDs secret infos acting like they are the only people that know where the market is headed and getting more press about it.

 

[PSGames]

Of course NPD could set a canary trap, releasing slightly different numbers to different sources and then the numbers that were posted would uncover the source of the leak. Muahuahuahua

Just post rounded numbers. Problem solved.

Something sells 756,724 copies, post that it sold 750,000 or even 800,000. I think people would be happy as long as we get a general idea of how something sold.

 

[Corto]

$10,000 per month. per month.

I guess those subscribers that contract this service for those numbers were a little upset seeing some of the data that they were paying for getting out in the open for free.

 

[Mindlog]

Aren't monopolies fantastic? Everyone wishing for a one console future pay attention.

Had fortune blessed me with the poet's touch I would pen a verse in a deservedly grand fashion. For shame I was not blessed by the great creator with such a gift. I regretfully entreat that our kings had sent such a scribe in my stead.

Does NPD cover condoms?

 

[Mudkips]

Does NPD cover condoms?

I don't know, but in Soviet Russia, condoms cover you.

 

[Road]

I guess those subscribers that contract this service for those numbers were a little upset seeing some of the data that they were paying for getting out in the open for free.

There are thousands of games being tracked every month. A top 10 is nothing. Even the hardware numbers they gave weren't all that when there are so many different SKUs out there (How much did the PSP go really sell? Nobody knows, despite monthly PSP sales being bestowed on us for free.) Not to mention all the revenue side of the estimation, consumer profiling etc.

This isn't going to make anyone buy their subscriptions. NPD would make more money if they adopted the White Paper practice. That would be something commoners like us here in GAF might pay for.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

I don't know, but in Soviet Russia, condoms cover you.

Standard sized condoms can cover you as well in every country. They stretch out enough that you can wear them as hats.

Spoiler

The availability of "Large", "Extra Large" and "Thundercock" sizes are more about massaging customers' egos than any real need.

 

[Souldriver]

So once NPD figures out that the numbers are being leaked they send a company a list with fake numbers on it? How can they do that? People are paying good money for the real numbers.

I was wondering about that too. How is NPD allowed to give false numbers if giving correct numbers is the sole service they should provide to their customers?

 

[Gravijah]

Standard sized condoms can cover you as well in every country. They stretch out enough that you can wear them as hats.

Spoiler

The availability of "Large", "Extra Large" and "Thundercock" sizes are more about massaging customers' egos than any real need.

spoken like someone who doesn't need 'em

 

[shintoki]

Shipped is now finally equal to Sold!

 

[classicdms]

Standard sized condoms can cover you as well in every country. They stretch out enough that you can wear them as hats.

Spoiler

The availability of "Large", "Extra Large" and "Thundercock" sizes are more about massaging customers' egos than any real need.

Whatever you need to tell yourself so you can sleep better at night.

 

[DeadTrees]

Even if people are fully aware what NPD's figures represent, it's still an incomplete data source lacking a tremendous amount of information that puts those numbers into context.

In the end, they're totally useless and lead to completely pointless fanboy debates with fanboys both working from the same totally incomplete data sets meaning that no one actually knows anything about what those numbers represent on a global scale.

Ohhhhh, so when GAF parses incomplete statistics to boost their favorite platforms, they're being fanboys, but when you start entire threads dedicated to parsing incomplete statistics to boost your favorite platform, you're actually a gallant knight in shining white armor astride an alabaster horse, in search of damsels to rescue and evildoers to punish.

I see.

 

[B-Rad Lascelle]

Shipped is now finally equal to Sold!

You know what that means... the following games were truly the greatest games of last holiday season and put all others to shame.

 

[Corto]

I was wondering about that too. How is NPD allowed to give false numbers if giving correct numbers is the sole service they should provide to their customers?

They could claim that it was a typo, or just a preliminary number that was sent by mistake... I was just joking around with the possibility, but someone already posted that NPD already used this tactic to unmask a leak.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

spoken like someone who doesn't need 'em

My point was that anybody who isn't packing the same kind of heat as porn stars doesn't need them (even then), so... yeah? At any rate, I can't say size has ever been an issue for me one way or the other.

Though, from a utility point of view, there is more danger in making sizes that are too big to fit snugly because then they'll slip off. Now that would be a distressing situation.

Spoiler

PROTIP: There's a reason the "large" sizes you can buy don't feature a warning about just this very thing.

Whatever you need to tell yourself so you can sleep better at night.

I have very few insecurities about my anatomy, classicdms, but thank you for your concern. Do we wish to continue this line of conversation, though, because I could go on about little squirrel if you really want me to.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

I have been away from Sales-Age a long time this must be a major blow

 

[donny2112]

I will bet money that I can prove that Reach did not sell more than they shipped.

A lot of money.

Depends on what you're talking about. It is possible (and has happened) that NPD has reported a higher sell-through than the publisher reported shipped before. Actual sales? No. Reported sales? Those can be higher than shipped.

Of course NPD could set a canary trap, releasing slightly different numbers to different sources and then the numbers that were posted would uncover the source of the leak. Muahuahuahua

They've already done this before.

 

[Tmac]

In practical terms that means that NPD will just not public release the numbers anymore, but they will still track and report those numbers (to paid customers), right?

I guess nothing will change much, since at least hardware numbers will always leak.

 

[Mudkips]

I was wondering about that too. How is NPD allowed to give false numbers if giving correct numbers is the sole service they should provide to their customers?

The numbers are estimates.

NPD tells you how they sampled the numbers and a bit of info as to how they derived the total estimate.

If NPD does their statistical voodoo and estimates Kinect sold 3,217 copies, they can easily tell subscribers it sold 3200. Or 3204. or 3241. Etc. As long as the range lies within the stated confidence interval for their stated methodology, there's no harm done.

When some dipshit goes on GAF and posts that Kinect sold 3204 copies, NPD will know who leaked the numbers.

And not every customer has to have unique numbers for every piece of hardware/software.
Simply going with the 3 consoles and the top 5 software, and a range of -2 to +2, you've got 390,625 unique data sets.

 

[jvm]

August was probably a particularly bad month to debut that chart, but it would still need numbers to be relevant to most people.

I'd been asking for months. Persistence pays off, often, but you never know in which month that will happen. :|

 

[timetokill]

The numbers are estimates.

NPD tells you how they sampled the numbers and a bit of info as to how they derived the total estimate.

If NPD does their statistical voodoo and estimates Kinect sold 3,217 copies, they can easily tell subscribers it sold 3200. Or 3204. or 3241. Etc. As long as the range lies within the stated confidence interval for their stated methodology, there's no harm done.

When some dipshit goes on GAF and posts that Kinect sold 3204 copies, NPD will know who leaked the numbers.

And not every customer has to have unique numbers for every piece of hardware/software.
Simply going with the 3 consoles and the top 5 software, and a range of -2 to +2, you've got 390,625 unique data sets.

Which is why our GAF dipshit needs to round the numbers off and give us "about X" copies so as to not make themselves so easy to track

 

[hamchan]

The numbers are estimates.

NPD tells you how they sampled the numbers and a bit of info as to how they derived the total estimate.

If NPD does their statistical voodoo and estimates Kinect sold 3,217 copies, they can easily tell subscribers it sold 3200. Or 3204. or 3241. Etc. As long as the range lies within the stated confidence interval for their stated methodology, there's no harm done.

When some dipshit goes on GAF and posts that Kinect sold 3204 copies, NPD will know who leaked the numbers.

And not every customer has to have unique numbers for every piece of hardware/software.
Simply going with the 3 consoles and the top 5 software, and a range of -2 to +2, you've got 390,625 unique data sets.

Dipshit? More like hero.

And the obvious solution to this is to not post such specific numbers.

 

[Road]

I guess nothing will change much, since at least hardware numbers will always leak.

Yes, like all these past months we've been told how much the PS2 is selling.

I'd been asking for months. Persistence pays off, often, but you never know in which month that will happen. :|

It was just a kiss of death. haha

 

[lowlylowlycook]

What will GAF argue about now?

The Romans?

I'm pro Aquaduct.

 

[elrechazado]

NPD just shot themselves in the foot....oh who am I kidding I can't remember the whole quote. Someone do it please!

 

[Corto]

NPD just shot themselves in the foot....oh who am I kidding I can't remember the whole quote. Someone do it please!

NPD just shot themselves in the foot, all the dudebros are moist because of this. Shooting/slicing the hivemind mentality is part of NeoGAF's culture. I'm an expert and my shit is fucked up. And Kinect is the worst videogame product since the square wheel.

I'm an expert.

 

[bone_and_sinew]

The real fun was following the sales of your favorite games month-to-month.

So i`ll be sad now playing an awesome game like Castlevania,not knowing if it bomba or not... :lol

These two posts reflect the appeal of sales-age for me. It's nice to see a quality game without much hype become a sleeper and sell a lot more than it should have. I hyped the hell out of Bayonetta on another board and I was happy to see it sell a lot more than anyone expected. I'm very interested to see if Lords of Shadow is a sleeper or a dud. I was hoping Vanquish would go the Bayonetta route as well.

 

[vareon]

New Rune Factory is good, to bad I rarely play console games now.

 

[Corto]

New Rune Factory is good, to bad I rarely play console games now.

Famitsu thread? Just around the corner.

 

[AnkhWeasel]

Ryan Payton cares:
[QUOTE="@ryanpayton]R.I.P., Sales-Age. “@kobunheat: NPD is no longer going to pub sales numbers, instead leaving it to publishers' discretion.”[/QUOTE]

They'll still be gathering the data, and it can be presumed that publishers will publish their most impressive numbers, but still. Weird move.

 

[apana]

Which is why our GAF dipshit needs to round the numbers off and give us "about X" copies so as to not make themselves so easy to track

Yes people just need to round the numbers. Besides can they hold an entire company accountable for the actions of someone who they think was an employee? For example lets say Nintendo's janitor decided to leak the data, is NPD gonna fine Iwata?

 

[P90]

So, NPD has now put a "hard cap" on all gaming stats. Using the equation NPD-->NeoGAF-->Internet-->Mind of all gamers, NPD has messed up bad, IMO. They are irrelevant now. That also lowers NeoGAF's status as well. Now everything is relegated to VGC*****.com estimates.

I foresee this as hurting gaming long term. NeoGAF console wars threads led to marketshare/mindshare shifts. No buzz = no interest = lower overall gaming sales. IMO, of course.

 

[Gamecocks625]

NPD just shot themselves in the foot. I'm not sure how much many of you know about NeoGAF culture (I'm an expert) but...

 

[vicissitudes]

NPD just shot themselves in the foot, all the dudebros are moist because of this. Shooting/slicing the hivemind mentality is part of NeoGAF's culture. I'm an expert and my shit is fucked up. And Kinect is the worst videogame product since the square wheel.

I'm an expert.

:lol :lol Perfect.

 

[dLMN8R]

Ohhhhh, so when GAF parses incomplete statistics to boost their favorite platforms, they're being fanboys, but when you start entire threads dedicated to parsing incomplete statistics to boost your favorite platform, you're actually a gallant knight in shining white armor astride an alabaster horse, in search of damsels to rescue and evildoers to punish.

I see.

There's quite a difference there. I created threads that were completely up-front about the dubious nature of certain statistics - statistics that are indeed worldwide and comprehensive though, at least. I was genuinely starting a conversation that deliberately asked people to tear holes in my logic. Some holes were torn, some validity remains.

Especially considering that Tripwire basically confirmed one of my conclusions.


It's quite reductive to compare that to immature Platform Warz (tm).


Anyway...glad I have a perceptive fan of my work :lol