Wolves Evolve
Member
bigben85 said:
Settle down, University Jones. These are not even works in progress. They are sketches. That come with commentary. Making the same points you are.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Official Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix thread
- Thread starter Jim
- Start date
Settle down, University Jones. These are not even works in progress. They are sketches. That come with commentary. Making the same points you are.
sixteen-bit
Member
That's because all the sprites they're using already exist.Raging Spaniard said:
So, are we supposed to ignore that these are leaked from mid-development, complete with production comments suggestion fixes and focus on just the problems you're bringing up?bigben85 said:
Or is their animation principle just so plainly wrong that it doesn't matter?
edit:
Pay attention
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
_dementia said:
Thats not what I'm talking about. Budget wise, to make a series of low res sprites and animate them is cheaper than building a 3D model, texture and animate it. It just takes less time to do, thus less money. The downside is that theres less people with enough skill to do it very well due to how the industry is moving and of course if you want to make it look real good to todays standards, you need 5 times the animation, which then makes it more expensive than 3D (and thus why pretty much nobody goes that route, or why alternate systems like Odin Sphere's graphics exist)
Graphics Horse
Member
So it's all down to your interpretation of what looks good enough. One advantage of 3d keyframing is you can use the same animations for any character model you build, if you want to, where as each sprite character needs to be redrawn from hand for every single frame, so it's not quite as simple as that.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Graphics Horse said:
Not necessarily, you cant if the rig is different. In order to reuse animations, which you would never want to do in SOME games the models have to be nearly identical.
Im talking about the budget difference in making one set of animations in low res: walk anim = 16 frames to high res: walk anim = 32 frames. Your budget has just doubled
Graphics Horse
Member
Raging Spaniard said:
Sure, but you can for any bipedal characters at least.
Look at Timesplitters 2 for example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XniZUCJx_Gc
I think there's over a hundred characters excluding pallette swaps, all using the same animation!
sixteen-bit
Member
I know, it was an Iga stealth troll.Raging Spaniard said:
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Graphics Horse said:
Well for an FPS sure, but for a 3D fighter? You will get many different rigs per character, since some of the animations are very intricate (this is a common thing in movies, like Spiderman for instance: one rig for him webslinging, one for him fighting, making flips, etc, now that game graphics are more like movies, it will be like that more and more) Plus, sprite reuse in 2D sidescrollers is also common. The point is, that is useful, but doesn't look that great and its a device used to save time. It what differentiates really amazing games from the rest sometimes.
IGA made a whole speech about the dev costs of 2D vs 3D earlier this year at GDC, I should dig it up, its pretty informative. I mean hell, he knows more about it than we all do.
Graphics Horse
Member
Raging Spaniard said:
Excluding all the reused sprites, I wouldn't be surprised if the cheapest characters in castlevania games are the giant rigged multi-sprited ones. You just draw each body part once and rig it to animate with a 2d keyframing system.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Graphics Horse said:
Yeah, usually the biggest deal with things like that is not physically making them, but getting them approved by the AD and re-doing them 30 billion times (at least in my experience)
These unfinished sprites that leaked are a good example, you can see the placeholder heads and the unfinished lineart, they wont even apply color until each frame has been signed off by the AD. Its cheap to make them once, but once youve done the 4th revision, 2 work days might have passed by.
(sorry for the de-railing)
Giant Robot
Member
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
jmdajr said:
Not only are you late to party, but they are linking to NeoGAF
GAF > Internet > GAF
+1 Respect for Kotaku for listening to lovely commenters
TheJollyCorner
Member
hahahah :lol
chun li's thighs
Member
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
Yeah I know, I'm not good at using paint :lol But hey, I'm bored.
EDIT: Oh JESUS CHRIST. There was already an official screenshot with Ken and Ryu on the same stage... -_-
EDIT: Oh JESUS CHRIST. There was already an official screenshot with Ken and Ryu on the same stage... -_-
twinturbo2
butthurt Heat fan
A+ post, will laugh at again in a full computer lab with other people looking at me funny. :lolchun li's thighs said:
So I guess this is what happens when people can see too much of a work in progress. I can't believe all of the people harshly judging this work, when it's FAR FROM FINISHED. You should all be ashamed of yourselves, because at the end of the day when all's said and done, 95% of you will buy the fucking game anyway, haha. I personally trust capcom to deliver a quality final product.
thanks said:
"Far from finished?"
Hardly.
It's playable and his sprites are already in the game, so I don't see how that qualifies as "far from finished."
Also they're making a change to the gameplay which, allegedly, is "not that big of a deal."
Got that straight from Udon when I spoke to him at Penny-Arcade Expo.
CAPCOM USA'S IN UR XBL ARCADE
RUININ UR STREET FIGHTER
:lol
I'll withhold judgement until:
a) They reveal what they changed
and/or
b) There's a non-remixed emulated version of the original CPS-2 Arcade version
AfunkyArcadeStick
Banned
kazuo said:
and/or you know you could just
not play the game and stop trying to piss on it for people who don't really care about lines being too dark or Akuma's muscles not being anatomically correct?
Wolves Evolve
Member
kazuo said:
Okay, this IS funny, but just a few things -
1. These sketches are works in progress, taken from Feburary and Janurary in some cases. These don't represent the final game, which we can see for ourselves just how it looks. Yes I agree its not ideal but it doesn't look -this- bad.
2. They -have- revealed what they've changed, in detail, many times.
3. The non-altered version comes with it.
I mean, I love hate, I really do.. but its funnier when its completely over the top. So I'm going with "I'm not buying it until they bring back Sagat without the scar!"
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
New post on the official site, acknowledges the leak but it gives credit to Kotaku for leaking it ... so I guess they don't read GAF and thus don't know this is where Kotaku got it from :lol
Street Fighter Art in Progress: The Good, the Bad, and the Just Plain Ugly
From Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD Remix producer Rey Jimenez:
Hey Street Fighter fans, I hope the deluge of Street Fighter related news hasnt been too much for you to handle. It looks like Kotaku got the jump on us regarding some new art, so weve opted to show you some older work-in-progress assets now, and over the next few months.
Enclosed in the zip file below, is a ton of work-in-progress art files. These files are almost 2 months old, but they are a good selection of files that illustrate some key issues and highlight and some of the steps that we are taking to ensure the final product will live up to the name of Street Fighter.
They will give you guys a window into our process of how were getting super-detailed art into the game, show you some of the challenges were facing and provide insights into how were addressing them.
Before we move on, I want to emphasize again that these are old files that were and still are very much a work-in -progress. In fact, as I will explain, some of the frames will be going through a major re-draw and other polishing steps before they make it into the game.
You might notice a magenta colored box around the files. This is the same as the grey box explained in a past blog update (http://blogs.capcomusa.com/blogs/digital.php/2007/06/29/p349#more349). For the blog, I colored it grey because, well, magenta is an ugly color. But for production purposes, we use a magenta box because its easier to see the drawing elements against a magenta background. Most of the files have been colored only in a flat color with no shading done yet.
Once the flat color step is done and fully approved through our quality control process, the file will move to shading, where it will once again go through a quality control process.
Ok, now were past all the boring explanations, lets move on to the good stuff. Below is a shot of Cammy doing her standing fierce punch.
As a whole, this set is looking pretty good. But youll notice that Ive circled her right foot. Thats because this animation should mostly remain stationary, with the foot rotating slightly until the last frame, when it rotates fully to face the player. If you take a look at what the foot does during the animation, youll see that the laces are not consistently drawn and when animated, will look like theyre popping. If this is missed and the frame goes to the shading process, the popping effect will be more apparent. We cant have that, now can we? Its very important that we catch these issues before going to shading, so we dont waste time shading a frame. An error is much easier to fix in the flat color stage than in the fully shaded step.
You may also notice in one of the frames that Cammys arm look blurred. You may or may not know this, but this is not new to the Street Fighter frames. Ill tell you that I never noticed the blurring effect back in the day because they go by so fast. Its amazing the detail that goes into these that could have been almost impossible to notice without careful dissection. Below is a still frame of the original sprite of Cammy doing the same move to prove this was in the original:
Heres a bit of Street Fighter trivia about whats going on here. When SFII first came out, it was on the CPS1 board. (The CPS1 is a proprietary arcade board that Capcom developed and many of your favorite arcade games were released on this board.) When Super Street Fighter II was released, it was released on the newer arcade board, the CPS2. This board made advancements in arcade technology and essentially, was capable of handling better, more detailed graphics. So any character or move that was new to the game between SFII and SSFII was developed on the CPSII board. So Cammy, Fei, Long, and T Hawk were able to have some cool effects added to them, like the blurring, which was not possible for the other characters developed on the CPS1. Youll see an upgrade in some other characters moves, like in Chun Lis animation and Kens Crazy kicks, and Ryus fireball. Very apparent was also the quality of the character portraits from SFII to SSFII.
But back on to some of the frames. The below Ryu animation has reached the shading phase, but now that it has, you can see that some additional problems are showing up now.
On Ryus right arm, you can see that the shading isnt consistent. One of the frames is much darker than the others and some of the lines are moving around a lot. Also, in his neck, theres a magic muscle thats appearing and disappearing. Ugh. Weve worked that out and its looking much better now. As magic as that muscle might seem, were glad that its gone.
One of the characters I wanted to talk about was Blanka. We havent showed you any of his frames because hes been in a stage of flux. As you can see, hes still very far from looking good in the line art stage. Were going to do some major re-drawing for Blanka. Well show you his official look as soon as we can.
Well, theres a lot of work in progress stuff for you guys to take a look at. Some of the issues weve shown you have already been corrected, while were tackling others. Theres variance in the line weight, some popping when you animate them, and some of the basic design issues that need to be worked out (such as Sagats giant shorts). You can actually see some of our notes in the files. I just know that many of you are successful or aspiring artists and hope that these files will give you some understanding in the artful process that goes into making a 2-D game such as Street Fighter. Weve also found that looking at work that still needs some work might be just as cool as seeing the final product. It certainly gives you more respect for it.
Enjoy playing Arm-Chair Producer, ripping these apart and we hope youll look forward to the changes youll see to them in the coming weeks.
http://static.capcom.com/SSF2HD/SSF2HDRemix.zip
Also, be sure to check out David Sirlins article on the changed hes done for the Remixed mode of Super Street Fighter II HD Remix:
http://blog.capcom.com/archives/542
This entry was posted on Monday, November 5th, 2007 at 4:1
Honestly, the rebalancing bit was the FAR more interesting post.
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Icarus said:
I dunno, I would prefer to discuss if Blanka's right foot (which is apparently his left foot also) has a heel or is that his ankle.. and if thats his ankle, then wheres the heel?
Its like a chicken or the egg question
C- Warrior
Banned
PBMax said:
What you're seeing isn't finished. This is exactly why publishers don't usually release 'beta' art - work and designs. I for one think it's cool to see the design process build.
AfunkyArcadeStick
Banned
Hunahan said:
Tough shit Kenny, we all do.
Grayman said:
Note that I said that I "posted" the gifs, and not "created", "made", or anything to that effect because I didn't want to imply they were stealing my "work". It's not my work, it's just a compilation of their work and they can use it however they want of course. I just found it odd that they would use gifs that some guy posted on NeoGAF instead of making their own.
They must have better source material than the one that leaked out...MrNyarlathotep
Banned
kazuo said:
YOU MEAN YOU MET THE UDON!?!?!?!