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Ok, so now that the dust has settled, are Pokémon Sun/Moon the best Pokémon games?
- Thread starter SalvaPot
- Start date
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Think I got 3/4 of the way through and completely lost interest. Had been really excited for them too.
They're just really showing their age now, despite all the updates. I feel like the series needs (and will never, ever get) a BOTW style reimagining. I think the series is done for me anyway, especially since they've somehow got to the stage where they'll probably remake the atrocious 4th gen next.
They're just really showing their age now, despite all the updates. I feel like the series needs (and will never, ever get) a BOTW style reimagining. I think the series is done for me anyway, especially since they've somehow got to the stage where they'll probably remake the atrocious 4th gen next.
lvl99 Pixel
Member
not even close. They somehow made huge steps backwards from Gen6 with the online stuff, framerate is somehow even worse and some of the least appealing new designs imo.
but they did give us icepix
but they did give us icepix
Not even close. They weren't as bad as the Gen V and VI games, but Emerald, Platinum, FRLG and HGSS are way better. I liked the layout of the map and the removal of HMs but everything else about the games sucked. It was a slog to play through because of all the fucking dialogue and interruptions constantly thrown your way. The story is garbage by non-pokemon standards so WHY DO THEY KEEP SHOVING IT IN MY FACE? Did not care for the Hawaiian theme at all, hated the new pokemon and starters, hated the z-move mechanic, can't even remember any of the music and the online felt like a downgrade from XY. I did like the idea of super strong totem pokemon as boss monsters though. I'd like standard gyms to come back in the next game, but have boss pokemon fights like those spread out throughout the story.
Caayn
Member
Not for me. I disliked the graphics, prefer how ORAS looked.
The room dex took away any sense of adventure by constantly screaming and showing objective markers, why can't I disable Rotom? I never had the feeling of discovering a new region that the previous games gave, part of that is also due to the high amount of cutscenes/event triggers that slow down the game a lot.
The rival/pal was annoying. And on top of mega evolutions (which I didn't like) we now have z-moves as well (didn't care for those and their silly dances either.
I think that I prefer the "old" gym pattern over the challenges as well.
Removal of HMs is the best thing the game did imo, although I miss being able to fly yourself like in ORAS.
So far gen VII is my least favorite gen.
The room dex took away any sense of adventure by constantly screaming and showing objective markers, why can't I disable Rotom? I never had the feeling of discovering a new region that the previous games gave, part of that is also due to the high amount of cutscenes/event triggers that slow down the game a lot.
The rival/pal was annoying. And on top of mega evolutions (which I didn't like) we now have z-moves as well (didn't care for those and their silly dances either.
I think that I prefer the "old" gym pattern over the challenges as well.
Removal of HMs is the best thing the game did imo, although I miss being able to fly yourself like in ORAS.
So far gen VII is my least favorite gen.
ScientificPizza
Banned
Nope, but they're an improvement from X/Y
I look forward to going back through with Stars though assuming that's a real thing
I look forward to going back through with Stars though assuming that's a real thing
Crazy Diamond
Member
They're very good, but I still think Crystal is my favorite. I'll probably enjoy Stars more than Sun and Moon though since I know more with Switch than 3DS.
The game is really really slow. Like I straight up put the game down and never picked it back up after it became it had been a couple hours and I felt like I hadn't done shit.
Pokemon X was the one that brought me back into Pokemon so it holds a soft spot in my heart and it did something right because it was the first game where I felt compelled to collect all of the Pokemons so when people complain about the post game in X and Y I don't see it because I spent hours "collecting them all" and digging deep into the multiplayer for the first time. I guess the problem with Pokemon is that you only get to have that once because when you collect everyone getting the handful of new pokemon per new gen becomes trivial. Same with breeding competitive Pokemon. Once you have like two boxes full the urge to keep making more dies down.
Pokemon X was the one that brought me back into Pokemon so it holds a soft spot in my heart and it did something right because it was the first game where I felt compelled to collect all of the Pokemons so when people complain about the post game in X and Y I don't see it because I spent hours "collecting them all" and digging deep into the multiplayer for the first time. I guess the problem with Pokemon is that you only get to have that once because when you collect everyone getting the handful of new pokemon per new gen becomes trivial. Same with breeding competitive Pokemon. Once you have like two boxes full the urge to keep making more dies down.
The main storys slow pacing was easily the worst in the series, like that initial hour was a pain, sure there is some cool pokemon to get there (low lv salamence) but the pacing in the plot feels waaay to slow (due to slow cutscenes probably).
Postgame reused som qol stuff that were nice, and the postgame mission was a interesting direction, atleast more to do then in the Delta episode, but It felt it barely touched on the series main questions from the gen before.
The VGCformat is the coolest change it has had in years though, really impressive new pokemon and abilities that for sure will make the next "full dex with 2 superlegends format really interesting, electric terrain boosted hyper voice Heliolisk in the sun with life orb will be interesting!
EDIT: framerate was terrible, not sure how that could get soo much worse from gen 6, did the pokemon designer (iirc) death have a impact on this?
EDIT 2: pokebank still misses features like being able to transfer the gen 4 darkrai and shaymin from the surf glitch too.
Postgame reused som qol stuff that were nice, and the postgame mission was a interesting direction, atleast more to do then in the Delta episode, but It felt it barely touched on the series main questions from the gen before.
The VGCformat is the coolest change it has had in years though, really impressive new pokemon and abilities that for sure will make the next "full dex with 2 superlegends format really interesting, electric terrain boosted hyper voice Heliolisk in the sun with life orb will be interesting!
EDIT: framerate was terrible, not sure how that could get soo much worse from gen 6, did the pokemon designer (iirc) death have a impact on this?
EDIT 2: pokebank still misses features like being able to transfer the gen 4 darkrai and shaymin from the surf glitch too.
SoulUnison
Banned
They're the only generation where I never even made it to the postgame.
I can't even remember if I made it to the Elite 4.
There's just so much boring dialog and you're handheld and restricted the entire game.
It felt like it was never going to end, so I put it down and never went back.
And this is from someone who put hundreds of hours into the post game of every other generation and remake.
I can't even remember if I made it to the Elite 4.
There's just so much boring dialog and you're handheld and restricted the entire game.
It felt like it was never going to end, so I put it down and never went back.
And this is from someone who put hundreds of hours into the post game of every other generation and remake.
Yes.
Pokemon games are constantly improving, and Sun and Moon continued where BW2 left off.
With that said, they're not perfect. There's still a few stuff that older games tend to do better (like post game or online connection). However, the complete package is great, and has been exactly what I needed to get me back into Pokémon after XY/ORAS made me almost quit the franchise.
Pokemon games are constantly improving, and Sun and Moon continued where BW2 left off.
With that said, they're not perfect. There's still a few stuff that older games tend to do better (like post game or online connection). However, the complete package is great, and has been exactly what I needed to get me back into Pokémon after XY/ORAS made me almost quit the franchise.
Gen II, son.
Amen, HG and SS are masterpieces
I will never understand people who say Red & Blue are the best. In no manner could they even be considered the best.
Not story.
Not gameplay
Not presentation.
Same with Gold & Silver considering how two regions broke the balance of the game resulting in a ridiculously small first region and a barren second region.
Not story.
Not gameplay
Not presentation.
Same with Gold & Silver considering how two regions broke the balance of the game resulting in a ridiculously small first region and a barren second region.
Nope. Some of my least favourite games in the series.
HeartGold & SoulSilver are still probably the best. Platinum, Emerald and Black2/White2 are up there as well. Red/Blue and Gold/Silver are still perfectly playable and fun today as well. Pokemon Yellow is the best Pokemon game to be (re)released in the last four years.
HeartGold & SoulSilver are still probably the best. Platinum, Emerald and Black2/White2 are up there as well. Red/Blue and Gold/Silver are still perfectly playable and fun today as well. Pokemon Yellow is the best Pokemon game to be (re)released in the last four years.
Finally someone that understands! The way nostalgia affects people is ridiculous.
No. They are one of my least favorites actually. First Pokémon gen I had to force myself to finish.
The way the bad story gets shoved down your throat the whole game is highly annoying (especially in the beginning) and the challenges are not an improvement over gym battles (whose designs got better and better over time).
The second screen was also pretty much useless with that Rotom thing there all the time. Big step back from other DS entries.
Also: You really get no National Pokédex at the end?
Gen2 Remakes are still the best.
I prefer a servicable minimal story over a bigger but bad one that you are forced in for the whole game.
The way the bad story gets shoved down your throat the whole game is highly annoying (especially in the beginning) and the challenges are not an improvement over gym battles (whose designs got better and better over time).
The second screen was also pretty much useless with that Rotom thing there all the time. Big step back from other DS entries.
Also: You really get no National Pokédex at the end?
Gen2 Remakes are still the best.
I prefer a servicable minimal story over a bigger but bad one that you are forced in for the whole game.
UnnecessaryTodd
Member
People who say RBYGSC have "no story" don't understand role-playing, or don't appreciate stories that aren't explicitly spelled out for you. You are a 10 year old kid on an epic quest to become THE champion. To become the greatest trainer ever and to catch as many as you can. While you're doing that, you discover a successful and prevalent criminal organisation and you take it down because they are directly impeding the path of your personal goals.
The narrative of RBYGSC is a lot more personal than it ever was in future games. Your rivals in these games are also completely different to any others. Whether its your jerk neighbour or an actual criminal, your rival legitimately contests you on your main quest to become the best trainer in the world, and on the side you overthrow a small but powerful crime organization. It's limited in scope, it's very achievable. This is why the earlier games resonate so strongly with the children who grew up with them. It was much easier to imagine yourself as the 10 year old kid taking down these criminals and becoming the best.
These games let you explore, they let you discover and they let you define your own adventure. And they built that into the narrative (mainly in RBY) by having the Team Rocket subplot span all of these different cities. They were integrated into the world, they had bases all around Kanto and Johto, they had plots and schemes and they had actual impact on the game world. You had to FIND Team Rocket's hideouts and take them down yourself, nothing was handed to you. Nobody told you to go do it, you just did it because they got in your way as a player from exploring, and you felt like a badass taking them down. It's not quite the same when you have all the main characters showing up to tell you that these people are evil and you have to go "stop them now before fighting my gym please". Even if mechanically it's the same thing in the old games, the method of execution makes the player feel like they have agency over the situation, and that's better game design.
My main complaint at the narrative/story of modern games is that it feels like an afterthought, and not only that but they figured that they could make it seem better by upping the stakes. Every game has you progressively doing grander and grander things to SAVE THE WORLD/UNIVERSE/LIFE AS WE KNOW IT and you essentially become the chosen one who captures the Legendary Pokémon and saves things but they don't take any time to build these narratives into the game world. They're just a layer of story paint over the top of the actual exploration and it gets in the way more than it does actually delivering on the narrative.
The narrative of RBYGSC is a lot more personal than it ever was in future games. Your rivals in these games are also completely different to any others. Whether its your jerk neighbour or an actual criminal, your rival legitimately contests you on your main quest to become the best trainer in the world, and on the side you overthrow a small but powerful crime organization. It's limited in scope, it's very achievable. This is why the earlier games resonate so strongly with the children who grew up with them. It was much easier to imagine yourself as the 10 year old kid taking down these criminals and becoming the best.
These games let you explore, they let you discover and they let you define your own adventure. And they built that into the narrative (mainly in RBY) by having the Team Rocket subplot span all of these different cities. They were integrated into the world, they had bases all around Kanto and Johto, they had plots and schemes and they had actual impact on the game world. You had to FIND Team Rocket's hideouts and take them down yourself, nothing was handed to you. Nobody told you to go do it, you just did it because they got in your way as a player from exploring, and you felt like a badass taking them down. It's not quite the same when you have all the main characters showing up to tell you that these people are evil and you have to go "stop them now before fighting my gym please". Even if mechanically it's the same thing in the old games, the method of execution makes the player feel like they have agency over the situation, and that's better game design.
My main complaint at the narrative/story of modern games is that it feels like an afterthought, and not only that but they figured that they could make it seem better by upping the stakes. Every game has you progressively doing grander and grander things to SAVE THE WORLD/UNIVERSE/LIFE AS WE KNOW IT and you essentially become the chosen one who captures the Legendary Pokémon and saves things but they don't take any time to build these narratives into the game world. They're just a layer of story paint over the top of the actual exploration and it gets in the way more than it does actually delivering on the narrative.
Nothing has the first two gens beat in pacing, challenge, music and overall atmosphere. First one is especially important. I'd much rather replay Red or Yellow (even with the lack of QoL improvements that future gens had) than slog through any of the Gen V-VII games again.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Probably one of the worst, only barely edging at XY. My personal hope is that they're the Skyward Sword of Pokemon games and we're about to get Breath of the Wild. I'm not sure how much more inane drivel I can take bogging down my ability to just wander around a strange land with monster buddies in tow. Lillie was awful, every time you see her is just an exercise in mashing the buttons furiously until she goes away.
Not with that slow ass game engine. Holds it back imo.
This is an accurate statement.
Evilkazzzz
Neo Member
No, honestly despite having arguably the best story for a mainline pokemon game (still not better than Mystery Dungeon 2), the cutscenes and hand holding KILL that game for repeat playthrouguhs/nuzlockes, worse than any previous pokemon game. Also the post game is meh. . .
Plus I found the Aloha region to be too gated and on rails. Most of the other games are too, but the fact that the alola islands are so small and the routes and paths diverge way less than before kills exploration. There are a couple ride pokemon spots bit there aren't enough of them.
HGSS, Emerald and Platinum remain the best pokemon games.
)
Plus I found the Aloha region to be too gated and on rails. Most of the other games are too, but the fact that the alola islands are so small and the routes and paths diverge way less than before kills exploration. There are a couple ride pokemon spots bit there aren't enough of them.
HGSS, Emerald and Platinum remain the best pokemon games.
Besides Mystery Dungeon 2 :
Caayn
Member
Don't think there's a National dex in the game. I haven't been able to find it yet postgame.
In a series like Pokemon where every mainline entry has devoted fans who would say it's the best in the series, I think discussions like this are somewhat pointless because they really boil down to an individual's mix of nostalgia and personal preference, and every choice is valid.
I'm largely divorced from post-game Pokemon as a hobby at this point, but Sun/Moon's efforts to make the single player experience more organic were largely a success, and I felt like its storytelling handled heavy topics like parental abuse with surprising deftness. Lillie's growth as a character in light of her mother's treatment of her is a plotline that would be a solid fit as a side plot in a "proper" RPG or JRPG, and the fact that it's in a Pokemon game is astounding. These are successes worth celebrating, and I think Sun/Moon is a valid choice as the best Pokemon game as a result.
I might pick RBY, B/W, or Sun/Moon on a given day. The experience of playing RBY as Pokemon took off as a sensation is basically unparalleled, and has only really been matched by the month or two Pokemon Go took off, so I think that's still my choice. B/W's strong writing and willingness to create a new national dex came the closest to duplicating the original RBY's sense of wonder for me, and Sun/Moon was similarly strong by trying to be different rather than channeling original feelings. It's an interesting split.
I'm largely divorced from post-game Pokemon as a hobby at this point, but Sun/Moon's efforts to make the single player experience more organic were largely a success, and I felt like its storytelling handled heavy topics like parental abuse with surprising deftness. Lillie's growth as a character in light of her mother's treatment of her is a plotline that would be a solid fit as a side plot in a "proper" RPG or JRPG, and the fact that it's in a Pokemon game is astounding. These are successes worth celebrating, and I think Sun/Moon is a valid choice as the best Pokemon game as a result.
I might pick RBY, B/W, or Sun/Moon on a given day. The experience of playing RBY as Pokemon took off as a sensation is basically unparalleled, and has only really been matched by the month or two Pokemon Go took off, so I think that's still my choice. B/W's strong writing and willingness to create a new national dex came the closest to duplicating the original RBY's sense of wonder for me, and Sun/Moon was similarly strong by trying to be different rather than channeling original feelings. It's an interesting split.
They were great games, but had their faults.
If I were to judge them based on criteria, it'd go something like this -
Gameplay: 7/10
Good old Pokemon, but the excessive handholding and unnecessary cutscenes did nothing but holt the experience. Game was genuinely hard though, which made a welcome change. Totem Salazzle wrecked my shit as did the Champion. Z moves were interesting and it's cool to see Pokemon have their own exclusive attacks. Between this and their abilities, they're really becoming unique.
Story 7/10
It was an engaging story buy didn't need anywhere near the amount of cutscenes. I get that Haus a good guy and likes malasadas. No need to break me off my adventure every ten minuets to hammer me over the head with it.the experience was definitely the most linear to date and I don't think any of the characters were interesting enough to make that pay off.
However Lillie had clear development and I liked Gladion as three best rival we've seen in a while. The photo of Lillie hugging Lunala at the end was genuinely moving. Team Skull were the best villain team we've had thanks to their low stakes and believable goal, as well as being goofy as all hell.
Music: 9/10
Outstanding in every way. The town and battle themes are among the best with some of my favourites including Hau'oli City Night and Royal Avenue (gives me those jazzy Sinnoh vibes) and the Tapu and Elite Four battles which are pretty heavy by Pokemon standards and portrays the intensity very well. The only thing that stops it being perfect is the lack of diverse route themes. Their were too few, and all pretty generic barring Route 01. It was an ace OST though. Heck, even the salon theme has a lot of video game music beat.
Pokemon: 9/10
Again, brilliant in almost every way. Each one was uniquely designed and truly took after Kalos' concept of quality over quantity. In fact it stands as my second favourite dex right after gen 6's. They all represented Alola down to the bone, and the genius behind some such as Decidueye who uses his hoodie tassle as a bow string, or Alolan sandshrew's igloo inspired ears and shell were brilliant. It's only let down by the fact the starters are seemingly becoming more humanoid in appearance which I'm not a fan of, and the Alolan forms being reserved for Kanto mon who have seen enough pandering recently. Though Kanto is my least favourite dex, it did make me like a few if them, so that counts as something.
Overall, it's a solid 8/10 in my books. As for rankings, it'd place right here-
1. DPPt
2. HGSS
3. ORAS/RSE
4. SM
5. BW/2
6. XY
7. GSE
8. FRLG
9. RBY
Not too shabby.
If I were to judge them based on criteria, it'd go something like this -
Gameplay: 7/10
Good old Pokemon, but the excessive handholding and unnecessary cutscenes did nothing but holt the experience. Game was genuinely hard though, which made a welcome change. Totem Salazzle wrecked my shit as did the Champion. Z moves were interesting and it's cool to see Pokemon have their own exclusive attacks. Between this and their abilities, they're really becoming unique.
Story 7/10
It was an engaging story buy didn't need anywhere near the amount of cutscenes. I get that Haus a good guy and likes malasadas. No need to break me off my adventure every ten minuets to hammer me over the head with it.the experience was definitely the most linear to date and I don't think any of the characters were interesting enough to make that pay off.
However Lillie had clear development and I liked Gladion as three best rival we've seen in a while. The photo of Lillie hugging Lunala at the end was genuinely moving. Team Skull were the best villain team we've had thanks to their low stakes and believable goal, as well as being goofy as all hell.
Music: 9/10
Outstanding in every way. The town and battle themes are among the best with some of my favourites including Hau'oli City Night and Royal Avenue (gives me those jazzy Sinnoh vibes) and the Tapu and Elite Four battles which are pretty heavy by Pokemon standards and portrays the intensity very well. The only thing that stops it being perfect is the lack of diverse route themes. Their were too few, and all pretty generic barring Route 01. It was an ace OST though. Heck, even the salon theme has a lot of video game music beat.
Pokemon: 9/10
Again, brilliant in almost every way. Each one was uniquely designed and truly took after Kalos' concept of quality over quantity. In fact it stands as my second favourite dex right after gen 6's. They all represented Alola down to the bone, and the genius behind some such as Decidueye who uses his hoodie tassle as a bow string, or Alolan sandshrew's igloo inspired ears and shell were brilliant. It's only let down by the fact the starters are seemingly becoming more humanoid in appearance which I'm not a fan of, and the Alolan forms being reserved for Kanto mon who have seen enough pandering recently. Though Kanto is my least favourite dex, it did make me like a few if them, so that counts as something.
Overall, it's a solid 8/10 in my books. As for rankings, it'd place right here-
1. DPPt
2. HGSS
3. ORAS/RSE
4. SM
5. BW/2
6. XY
7. GSE
8. FRLG
9. RBY
Not too shabby.
But they actually toned that down both in BW and even Sun and Moon? In the former you just stopped Team Plasma who's like Team Rocket, and in the latter's climax you rescue Lusamine.
Neoleo2143
Member
It's a solid game but it just needs a bit more polish. It's quite beautiful though, the trainer models are some of the best on the 3DS and the style of 3D character modeling is outstandingly on point and is a gigantic step up from XY which makes me quite excited for how the eventual HD game on the Switch will shape up. It's up there with some of the best "anime stylings" so far in the generation like Persona 5.
Blackquill
Member
Hell no
What a disapointing game, even X/Y looked like something polished next to that
(Gen 5 is the right answer)
What a disapointing game, even X/Y looked like something polished next to that
(Gen 5 is the right answer)
They were the only generation I couldn't bother to finish, I can't believe that happened.
The constant interruptions and roadblocks were too much for me, I couldn't play for 5 minutes without having someone talking to me for whatever reason and there was barely anything to explore because every single path that was not the objective was blocked.
The constant interruptions and roadblocks were too much for me, I couldn't play for 5 minutes without having someone talking to me for whatever reason and there was barely anything to explore because every single path that was not the objective was blocked.
Ridiculously too much dialogue.... That you couldn't skip.
I prefer the 8 gym in 8 cities format.
The good thing about Sun and Moon is the aloha form of Pokemon but this doesn't make up the lack of new pokemons in a region. It feels like a filler.
No common pokemon designs I particular like in Sun & Moon too and Ultra Beast are hideous.
The good thing about Sun and Moon is the aloha form of Pokemon but this doesn't make up the lack of new pokemons in a region. It feels like a filler.
No common pokemon designs I particular like in Sun & Moon too and Ultra Beast are hideous.
Daria Morgendorffer
Member
I'm really curious to know how many of the people who say hgss played the originals first. The only reason I can see why you'd have that opinion is nostalgia, the games are so imbalanced.
Heart Gold / Soul Silver are still the best ones, they got a ton of content, more than the original Gold / Silver which already was crazy.
The games look nice and have tons of nice shoutouts to long term fans, like even offering you to play using the original OST (which includes specifically made Gameboy-styled versions of the themes for the new areas). Overall it amasses to a great package that manages to impress even so many years down the line.
It will probably be a long time until a new Pokémon beats what these games offered, however, that being said, Sun / Moon is definitely my second favorite since while it does have some shortcomings in some places, I can definitely say it's been a long while since I had this much fun playing through a Pokémon game. The Fire Trial alone made it worth buying for me.
The games look nice and have tons of nice shoutouts to long term fans, like even offering you to play using the original OST (which includes specifically made Gameboy-styled versions of the themes for the new areas). Overall it amasses to a great package that manages to impress even so many years down the line.
It will probably be a long time until a new Pokémon beats what these games offered, however, that being said, Sun / Moon is definitely my second favorite since while it does have some shortcomings in some places, I can definitely say it's been a long while since I had this much fun playing through a Pokémon game. The Fire Trial alone made it worth buying for me.
TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared
Member
Sun and Moon are way too slow and badly paced to be the best. And I'm sick of the hand holding/lack of a diffculty mode. Yeah, there's a great multiplier, I know, but that doesn't mean the single player gets a licence to be watered down for it.
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