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|OT| French Presidential Elect 2017 - La France est toujours insoumise; Le Pen loses

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G.O.O.

Member
Hey le pen is pro-russia? Didnt even know. Knew about fillon, not le pen.
Le Pen, Fillon and Mélenchon have been strong advocates of closer ties with Russia, but Le Pen is the only one who's been overtly financed by russian money (patriotism, amirite). At least until recently, I'm not sure but I've read that this relationship hasn't been quite as good since a few months.

Plus she has quoted Putin several times as the kind of model she's trying to bring to France.

more on Putin's friends in Europe : http://www.ecfr.eu/article/commentary_putins_friends_in_europe7153
 

Fistwell

Member
Le Pen, Fillon and Mélenchon have been strong advocates of closer ties with Russia, but Le Pen is the only one who's been overtly financed by russian money (patriotism, amirite). At least until recently, I'm not sure but I've read that this relationship hasn't been quite as good since a few months.

Plus she has quoted Putin several times as the kind of model she's trying to bring to France.

more on Putin's friends in Europe : http://www.ecfr.eu/article/commentary_putins_friends_in_europe7153
Thanks. You're nice. :)
 

Renae

Member
That's funny (and sad) how TV channels like BFMTV and itele are denigrating Mélenchon. They prefer to stop his meeting to broadcast Le Pen's one entirely. A "multiplex" would have been more fair.
Obscurantism makes more audience than humanism I think.
 

G.O.O.

Member
Thanks. You're nice. :)
I am.

I was also surprised that you knew for Fillon but not Le Pen tbh, at first I thought you were joking

I can not fathom how anyone in their right mind would vote for that. That's crazy.
a depressingly high number of people in France value authority and strong leadership with little regard for the opposition. Luckily most are also aware that a strong leader doesn't mean one that aligns with one's views.

That's funny (and sad) how TV channels like BFMTV and itele are denigrating Mélenchon. They prefer to stop his meeting to broadcast Le Pen's one entirely. A "multiplex" would have been more fair.
Obscurantism makes more audience than humanism I think.
We don't call them BFN TV for nothing.
 

KooopaKid

Banned
Oh come on, first you were saying "Fillon Vs Le Pen, I'm not voting !", now it's "Macron Vs Le Pen, I'm not voting !".
Then, about the far right :

Could you at least embrace your opinions without pretending ?

Pretenting what? Yeah, I'm anti-EU so I agree with FN stance on that subject. But I don't like MLP talks about the islamization of France and many other subjects. This is populism.
Not everything has to be fascist VS non-fascist. Calling FN a fascist group is also ridiculous. Please stop simplifying.

Ok. Give me your vote. Vote for Macron, you idiot.

Last time I post in a political topic on GAF don't worry.
 

Alx

Member
Then maybe you should wonder why the only parties openly anti-EU are also the populist ones. It's not a coincidence.
 
Mélenchon said some rather confusing stuff about Ukraine as part of his anti-Americanism, but I wouldn't say he is "pro-Putin".
 

Slaythe

Member
Hamon was pretty convincing today.

If he can find some agreement with the green and far left, he could win this.
 

Fistwell

Member
Hamon was pretty convincing today.

If he can find some agreement with the green and far left, he could win this.
Caught some of his speech. He sounded surprisingly credible to me, thought he was going to be a joke candidate. Still don't see him making it to the second round right now, but who knows. Not counting him out completely anymore.
 
On topic, polls today :
Le Pen 25%
Macron 20.5%
Fillon 18.5%
Hamon 16.5%
Mélenchon 10%

Hopefully Hamon rises and wins.

So Fillon is toast with the media? Who will his soft (former) support supporters go to? Will Fillon supporters back Le Pen over the left in a 2-way race?
 

ebil

Member
Hamon was legit today. I especially liked his stance on Putin, Trump, and the need for the EU to start taking care of our defense. Like it or not, he's shaping up as a solid candidate.

And I loved Christiane Taubira's speech as usual. So happy she's on board.
 

mo60

Member
Hopefully Hamon rises and wins.

So Fillon is toast with the media? Who will his soft (former) support supporters go to? Will Fillon supporters back Le Pen over the left in a 2-way race?

His moderate right wing supporters won't definitely back le pen in the second round. It's questionable if the catholics that support Fillon right now will support Macron especially the ones that hate le pen. Also it looks like Hamon dropped slightly if I'm reading that poll correctly.
 

G.O.O.

Member
Mélenchon said some rather confusing stuff about Ukraine as part of his anti-Americanism, but I wouldn't say he is "pro-Putin".
His supporters are probably not fond of Putin either so he tries to thread lightly, but I'd say his position is *suspiciously ambiguous*

http://www.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs...ie-et-la-guerre-en-syrie_5050147_4355770.html

He certainly seems more willing to improve ties with Russia than with the rest of the EU, to say the least, and I don't like this at all.
 

Bossun

Member
All of this is vain.

Everybody in France know there is only one true significant vote, the right one to make, and that is to vote for Sylvain Durif.
 

EmiPrime

Member

What a load of bollocks. The man has no shame.

Comment François Fillon remboursera-t-il ? Quelles modalités ? C'est tout sauf un détail, car l'entourage du candidat souhaite là aussi faire la transparence et ne pas nourrir une nouvelle polémique sur l'origine de l'argent. On parle notamment d'un emprunt contracté auprès d'un établissement bancaire pour un montant de quelques centaines de milliers d'euros, sachant que les montants (on a parlé de quelque 900.000€ sur de multiples années) ne sont pas nécessairement «remboursables».

lol.
 

G.O.O.

Member
All of this is vain.

Everybody in France know there is only one true significant vote, the right one to make, and that is to vote for Sylvain Durif.
We should add him to the OP

kc20bF9.gif


Maybe the best he can do for damage control, but it won't clear him from everything.
He basically admitted he was guilty. If it's like when Cahuzac did this, he just committed political suicide.

I don't think French voters ever forgave someone who confessed...
 
All of this is vain.

Everybody in France know there is only one true significant vote, the right one to make, and that is to vote for Sylvain Durif.
We have an ongoing debate about him with my wife, trying to figure out if he's really batshit insane or just an elaborate troll performance.
The moment he whips out his flute to play a song always gets to me.
 

Alx

Member
It doesn't look like he'll give back the money after all. He just played the transparency card, and only admits "yeah that was morally wrong but at least it was legal, I'm sorry".
 
Yeah, he only apologized for having employed his wife and kids. He didn't actually admit that his wife didn't work (which is the illegal part).
 
Looks like Fillon has forgotten the rule number one of holes (stop fucking digging) and is doubling down on his story while conveniently adding details he didn't see fit to mention a week ago.
"When my wife said 10 years ago she wasn't working for me, what she really meant was that she was working with me". As an excuse, that's beyond insulting.
"I'll show her payrolls" as if that were proof she actually worked, and as if he couldn't have done it a week ago.

These people are crooks and they really suck at it. I can't imagine LR members will tolerate much longer having to publicly defend this comically damaging bullshit and won't do their ides of march sooner rather than later.

Hah, thanks !
 
Looks like Fillon has forgotten the rule number one of holes (stop fucking digging) and is doubling down on his story while conveniently adding details he didn't see fit to mention a week ago.
"When my wife said 10 years ago she wasn't working for me, what she really meant was that she was working with me". As an excuse, that's beyond insulting.
"I'll show her payrolls" as if that were proof she actually worked, and as if he couldn't have done it a week ago.

These people are crooks and they really suck at it. I can't imagine LR members will tolerate much longer having to publicly defend this comically damaging bullshit and won't do their ides of march sooner rather than later.

The most hilarious thing is how he and his allies kept trying to make it a feminist issue by calling the original article misogynistic and claiming his wife is saddened that people would think she can't work, etc.
 

Ac30

Member
The most hilarious thing is how he and his allies kept trying to make it a feminist issue by calling the original article misogynistic and claiming his wife is saddened that people would think she can't work, etc.

This whole Fillon thing is a case study in how to blow a campaign. Hillary handled her massive email scandal better. This is nothingburger by comparison, and yet it sank his campaign

Well now that Fillon is cratering, what are the odds that Macron has some skeletons in the closet? His odds of making it to the second round seem pretty good. Any rumors? I mean yeah he's hitched up with his former prof. but I doubt anyone that matters cares.
 
This whole Fillon thing is a case study in how to blow a campaign. Hillary handled her massive email scandal better. This is nothingburger by comparison, and yet it sank his campaign
I must have seen like 5 articles on LinkedIn from people writing about crisis management, and how this was the opposite of whatever you should be doing.

Well now that Fillon is cratering, what are the odds that Macron has some skeletons in the closet? His odds of making it to the second round seem pretty good. Any rumors? I mean yeah he's hitched up with his former prof. but I doubt anyone that matters cares.
AFAIK, the big two I've seen are :
- something about his operational budget in Bercy. He staid 8 months and blew 75% or 80% of his yearly budget. His defense when asked on that is that most ministries tend to that and spend early rather than late in the year. I haven't seen any kind of fact checking on that answer.
- some people were complaining a few months ago that he used government trips to do fundraising on the side.

After writing this, I checked and Christian Jacob actually whined about it recently, which led to an article from les decodeurs about it. Basically, it's hard to prove one way or the other but doesn't look good. So yeah, his relationship to (private and public) money is his biggest weakness so far.
 

Alx

Member
Those who remember for Juppé may also realize he took one for the team (or for Chirac), and didn't even benefit himself from the fake jobs.
Anyway I wonder if Fillon wasn't too naive precisely because he had a clean career until now, and didn't know how to react. It's sad to say, but the worse they are, the better they are at defending themselves. Just watch Le Pen or Sarkozy dodge similar accusations like a Matrix agent.
 
Being a politician's wife sure sounds awful. Even worse when you see how women are treated in politics...


About that ! If you want to act against breitbart, you can follow https://twitter.com/slpng_giants and https://twitter.com/slpng_giants_eu . It's about raising awareness among advertisers that their products appear next to xenophobic/misogynistic content, a lot of them don't know that and pull out their ads. I think it's a good idea.

On topic, polls today :
Le Pen 25%
Macron 20.5%
Fillon 18.5%
Hamon 16.5%
Mélenchon 10%

http://www.parismatch.com/Actu/Politique/Sondage-Pour-Fillon-il-y-a-le-feu-a-la-baraque-1180700

Man, Fillon shitting the bed might be a huge win for France/the world.
 

chadskin

Member
This certainly won't help the Republicans in the optics department eh.

AFP: #BREAKING Former French president Nicolas Sarkozy to face trial over 2012 campaign financing: legal source
 

Alx

Member
He should be, but he's very resilient. He's been carrying that story for four years already and it didn't prevent him from going to the primaries, with expectations of winning. :p
Like I said earlier, he's dodgy enough to let all that stuff slide like water off a duck's back. He's a former lawyer after all.
 

Kuldar

Member
It's a good step forward but I'll rejoice when he'll be convicted (after the mandatory appeal), so in few years.
 

Nerazar

Member
The WashingtonPost recently posted an article on russia's attempts to influence the french presidential election
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...9a_story.html?utm_term=.40026b721ab5#comments

I've checked the comments section of Le Figaro and I was amazed by the level of atrocity there. So Macron

  • is gay
  • has ties to Clinton
  • stole money
  • has ties to the Rothschilds

This is a Russian fever dream of slander and people don't see through that? It is their playbook until the very end. The only item missing is that Macron is a pedophile, then we would have a Kremlin BINGO.

I am really scared by the sheer force of Kremlin online propaganda and that noone is really doing anything about that. And noone is wondering why Le Pen isn't getting any kompromat action.
 

oti

Banned
I've checked the comments section of Le Figaro and I was amazed by the level of atrocity there. So Macron

  • is gay
  • has ties to Clinton
  • stole money
  • has ties to the Rothschilds

This is a Russian fever dream of slander and people don't see through that? It is their playbook until the very end. The only item missing is that Macron is a pedophile, then we would have a Kremlin BINGO.

I am really scared by the sheer force of Kremlin online propaganda and that noone is really doing anything about that. And noone is wondering why Le Pen isn't getting any kompromat action.

I really hope that he can withstand the Russian propaganda machine that is being prepared for him right now. Stealing money would be no good but him being gay shouldn't, at least that's my hope, lose him too many votes. It's France! That shouldn't stop a modern society from voting for someone. This isn't Russia.
 

Magni

Member
I can see more LR voters voting for Macron than Le Pen (and equally important, not abstaining), but what about if it's Hamon in the second round?
 

Koren

Member
Those who remember for Juppé may also realize he took one for the team (or for Chirac), and didn't even benefit himself from the fake jobs.
Yes, I agree... I think it was even harsh for him at the time (I mean, I'm not sure I would disclose fake jobs myself if I knew about them, it was a kind of political suicide at the very least). I was just looking for people seen in a good light that admitted wrongdoings in the past. It's obviously a lesser one.

Anyway I wonder if Fillon wasn't too naive precisely because he had a clean career until now, and didn't know how to react. It's sad to say, but the worse they are, the better they are at defending themselves. Just watch Le Pen or Sarkozy dodge similar accusations like a Matrix agent.
Well, I think there's people that KNOW there's risks of things being uncovered so think about it beforehand and prepare fuses they can burn in case it comes public, and people that believe it'll stay unnoticed forever, never and still believe they can downplay it easily when it's uncovered. Cahuzac is a perfect example.

Yeah. A more moderate candidate will now face le pen in the second round which is really bad for her unless Fillon magically recovers.
Fillon was one of the thoughest opponent for LePen in a direct second turn match. Used to be 2:1 before the Penelope gate. It's still 3:2.

If the opponent isn't moderate but sharing some far-left ideas, many people will prefer vote for the non-FN version of it. At least for now, and I hope it'll go on like this.

That being said I don't think they would have voted for him in the first place
Probably. Also, there's a vocal group, but I'm not sure they have that much voting power.

I doubt those "threats" are dangerous.

The "gay rumor" is also coming straight from its own side (obviously not publicly) and has (I hope) far less weight in France than it would have in Russia, from what I gathered.

The links with banks will go both way (possibly scare far-left, but gather center-right), it's not new, and well-known anyway.

The "ties to Clinton", even if true, will hardly be seen as a bad thing here, after all the media campaign against Trump, and Trump seems to want to give wight to this campaign.

The "stolen money" is the fact that he spent a good chunck of the budget in the first half of the year, putting its successor in a alledgably difficult solution, and used some official visits to do non-official things? Those things will probably seen as menial.

I won't even talk about the whole marry-his-teacher thing, I guess it could bring it sympathy, not hostility. And his wife seems to be a really good advisor on public relations. And, I mean...
- the current president had a love affair with an actress, sneaking out of the Elysée to visit her, and complex relations with the mother of his children
- the former one had also a love affair, with a singer, its relations with his former wife were public and harsh, including SMS unveiling
- the former one had married his wife probably for pratical reasons, and was well known for freely courting other women
- the former one had an hidden life, including an hidden girl
and so on.

Who can really believe that private lives can really undone a candidate? I mean, yes, there's DSK, but he really pushed it a bit far...
 

Koren

Member
I can see more LR voters voting for Macron than Le Pen (and equally important, not abstaining), but what about if it's Hamon in the second round?
I think Hamon can gather a lot of anti-FN support. With the FN bringing a lot of old far-left ideas, they may have a lot in common for economy (barring Europe, maybe).


The real knightmare will be after that... Usually, the one that win the presidency gather a large support in the following legislatives. It may be far stranger this time.
 
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