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|OT| French Presidential Elect 2017 - La France est toujours insoumise; Le Pen loses
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I don't know about you guys but I'm glad we'll finally have a president who knows how to speak french properly. I'm not a big fan of his policies but after 10 years of Sarkozy and Hollande who talk like highschool dropouts and make grammatical errors at an alarming rate (especially Hollande with his " La France ELLE est ... " ) it feels so good to listen to someone who really knows the language.
That was my thought of the day. Thank you for reading.
That was my thought of the day. Thank you for reading.
They don't make big mistakes per se and definitely not when they are giving pre-written speeches. It's more when they're asked questions by journalists and they have to improvise. Hollande is especially terrible at this.
Also don't tell me you've ever noticed his use of the double subject " La France elle est ". He does this every fucking time. It's horrible.
Edit : Damn Macron is going ham on Dupont Aignan. " Les billets de Monopoly " lmao
Never noticed it, though I admittedly don't pay much attention to what these people say.
What I did notice is Macron's relative ease with the English language - bar his accent. Now that is refreshing and very rare among French politicians. They're almost always an embarrassment on that front.
Alx
Member
Now that you mention it, I can hear him saying it... it doesn't bother me that much though, it's part of his "style". Maybe it's the reason so many people find him goofy.
On the other hand, Macron's small lisp ("cheveu sur la langue") always annoyed me. It's completely anecdotal, but it's the kind of thing I'll always notice. He should work on it, just like Bayrou worked on his stutter.
So many historical lines...
"Ouate douyou ouante ? You ouante mi tou go baque on maille plaine ?"
"Zeu yaisse nidze the neau, to ouine against the neau" (or ouatéveure, I can't even remember it right)
Well, that's my feeling. I keeps finding him wavering and avoiding being precise. Probably political strategy, but that doesn't help when you vote.
You can't have missed that the adjective he's been given almost everywhere is "flou"?
Well, I don't think he's that good, but I also welcome it (it's one of the reasons I couldn't stand Poutou).
Not that it'll be a convincing argument... In the last batch, Jean-Marie LePen was better than most... Both quality of speach (I'm obviously NOT speaking of the content) and cultural knowledge (when it's not distorded by fascist views)
I'd say in that particular area he is much more concrete about his opinions. They've also been publicly held for a longer period of time. Though that is also probably a function of how he is the only candidate to speak about more abstract EU issues in that way.
Well, have you ever heard Laurence Haïm, former reporter in Washington close to Obama that came back in France to support Macron, as an adviser on foreign politics?
Her accent is... noticeable.Well, have you ever heard Laurence Haïm, former reporter in Washington close to Obama that came back in France to support Macron, as an adviser on foreign politics?
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
The election is in 6 days and SURGING Le Pen has gained like one or two points since the first round. How is she going to catch up at this point?
Alx
Member
Her accent is... noticeable.
I just had to look her up on youtube... yesh.
I guess you don't need to work on your accent when you're working in the US though, for some reason they think it's sexy over there.
GIGN director Cômé releases un lettre to the parliament detailing Macron's use of a private email server to cover up his sordid homosexual affairs.
Lord Frieza
Member
That's hot. That's a hot way to live.
It would have almost no impact in France.
We don't give a fuck about the sexual affairs of our politicians.
whyamihere
Banned
It's exponential.
I'm not surprised. I looked at the biggest DLF facebook group and it's a civil war on there.
Well, have you ever heard Laurence Haïm, former reporter in Washington close to Obama that came back in France to support Macron, as an adviser on foreign politics?
kill me now
Let me change my statement: Macron's accent is decent for a French politician, all things considered. He's on par with DSK I guess. Laurence Haïm sounds like she doesn't give a single solitary fuck.
Which is my problem when you have too strong of an accent (especially a French accent): sure, it's 'cute' I guess, and it doesn't alter the contents of your speech one bit, but it really sounds like you don't care about the other person. I don't know about you, but I know that I sometimes lose focus when I have to listen to someone with a strong accent for too long. It's just harder to understand for long stretches of time.
And just like Macron's lisp Alx was talking about, it's annoying. Unlike it (or Bayrou's stutter) though, it's really something you can work on fairly easily. It's not the result of a physical defect or of a mental trauma. Hence the "she sounds like she doesn't care" argument.
Yup. Can't stand my fellow french people who make 0 effort to improve their accents and sadly a majority of us fall in this category. When you're a professional correspondent like laurence haim it's almost inexcusable. As for our politicians ... No comment. What a joke.
I mean just take a look at our european neighbours. Germans, swedes, danes, finns, dutch people etc... and even belgians. They all speak decent to almost perfect english with really good accents. Yet we're the only ones who still refuse to learn the language from a young age and to work on our accents. We truly are the worse. Ugh.
/endrant
MistakenMobius
Member
Well if we started by remove all the mandatory French production, people would have access to proper English on tv.
Growing in Belgium, i was always surprise that France is like dubbed dubbed dubbed everywhere.
If it makes you feel better, just watch Günther Oettinger speak "English". And he's a guy who now has an actual position of power within the EU, sadly. And there's always the "Please ask only in German" scene of our former foreign minister(!). Funnily enough, the head of our right-wing party AfD speaks English almost on a native level (but she studied in the UK).
Also, I personally had much fewer problems with English in France than in Spain. At least as long as I started with a friendly "Parlez-vous anglais ?"
Alx
Member
Eh, having worked with some German, Belgian and Finns with terrible accents, it's not really a general rule either. It's true that when they're good they're really good, but not all of them are at top level.
I tend to agree, but let's play the devil advocate... Are "right accents" and "wrong accents" only depending on the official language of your country? What about scottish accent? I even found the spanish-related accent in southern USA hard to understand, does it count? How about canadian french?
I'm not sure it's easy for everyone, and I really believe there's physical/mental reasons behind this. Sure, a lot of people don't care, but people still have variable success when they really try.
Like music, really (and the capability to recognizing music is apparently sometimes linked to an hormonal unbalanced, you can take medicine to vastly improve this).
I don't buy it. A huge majority of foreign material is available with the original audio on TV. People don't care.
We definitively have to work on it, but I'm not sure we're the worst...
And I'd be curious to know how many people with english as their mother tongue speak decently a foreign language
Heh, I can't quite follow whats's being said when both are talking simultaneously, but it would be damned funny if Le Pen was actually plagiarizing Fillon:
https://twitter.com/RidiculeTV/status/859099588002811908
Sure sounds convincing to me
https://twitter.com/RidiculeTV/status/859099588002811908
Sure sounds convincing to me
Haha! They are actually saying the same thing! They did jump cuts to make it fit, but the sentences are way too similar to not be plagiarised.
Alx
Member
Yep, definitely copy-pasted sections of the same speech. When asked, the FN claims it was an "homage".
http://www.lemonde.fr/election-pres...cours-de-francois-fillon_5120626_4854003.html
Seriously, it's not even an obscure speech, it's just two weeks old, during the same campaign... did they really think it would go unnoticed ?
Or maybe they both stole from an older reference...
http://www.lemonde.fr/election-pres...cours-de-francois-fillon_5120626_4854003.html
Seriously, it's not even an obscure speech, it's just two weeks old, during the same campaign... did they really think it would go unnoticed ?
Or maybe they both stole from an older reference...
Dommage pour la FN, lmao. No one will buy that homage excuse - not that her base cares of course, it could have been yesterday and they wouldn't bat an eye.
If it makes you feel better, just watch Günther Oettinger speak "English". And he's a guy who now has an actual position of power within the EU, sadly. And there's always the "Please ask only in German" scene of our former foreign minister(!). Funnily enough, the head of our right-wing party AfD speaks English almost on a native level (but she studied in the UK).
Also, I personally had much fewer problems with English in France than in Spain. At least as long as I started with a friendly "Parlez-vous anglais ?"
Lmao he has a funny accent but I could somehow understand almost everything he said
And don't worry our politicians are way worse than him Also yeah if you're a tourist you can vastly improve your experience by learning a few sentences in French. We are very easily bought. Just don't act like an entitled american tourist and you will be fine lol
Young people ? I've worked with people from all over Europe and they were all fluent in english.
We definitively have to work on it, but I'm not sure we're the worst...
And I'd be curious to know how many people with english as their mother tongue speak decently a foreign language
We shouldn't compare ourselves to the americans or the brits.. They don't actually " need " to learn a second language as they enjoy world domination with their native language being the de facto lingua franca. Also they're not very proud of the fact that so few of them actually make the effort to learn a second language.
chromatic9
Member
Wasn't sure what you guys were on about at first but found this video. Almost like she does it on purpose at times, sentences become a French noise at the end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4quEKZEoYo
The Swedes are great at speaking English but their own language and accent isn't that distinct to my ear. French is very distinct so anything under Laurence Haim is really fine, not sure why one is expected to shake the French sound.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4quEKZEoYo
The Swedes are great at speaking English but their own language and accent isn't that distinct to my ear. French is very distinct so anything under Laurence Haim is really fine, not sure why one is expected to shake the French sound.
That kind of experience is unfortunatly not very representative (just like a poll, the "sample" can be biased)
Well, Cameron didn't actually care; he just wanted to shut up the Euroskeptics in his own party.
And? I don't get your point. le pen wants out totally, not sure how voting for Macron could be a mistake compared to the other option.
You puting words in my word i didn't say vote for le pen i'm saying marcon doing the same mistakes as cameron did trying to get eurosceptic on his side. Once you do that they will demand a referendum!
Red Arremer
Member
There's nothing wrong in wanting to reform the EU. Even most EU supporters will tell you that as the organization is right now, it won't be able to sustain itself forever. The UK also always had a bizarre relationship with the EU, having been allowed a lot of exceptions and opt-outs of various other multilateral agreements, which is why staying in the EU always was a better option for the UK.
Also note that there's several key differences between the British and French people. The British people have been consistently fed anti-EU narrative, and Cameron didn't do the referendum to please them, he did it in order to stay in power in the British elections. The gamble paid off, he got voted back in, but he also lost the referendum to the anti-EU crowd. Meanwhile, the French have been a founding member of the EU and one of its biggest proponents, and to my knowledge are less skeptical. They also haven't been getting as much anti-EU propaganda.
So no: Macron saying to have a desire for reform in the EU is not a risk leading up to a Frexit referendum, even if it was an attempt at fishing for some of the EU skeptics. Macron isn't Cameron, and France isn't the UK. Completely different scenarios.
Also note that there's several key differences between the British and French people. The British people have been consistently fed anti-EU narrative, and Cameron didn't do the referendum to please them, he did it in order to stay in power in the British elections. The gamble paid off, he got voted back in, but he also lost the referendum to the anti-EU crowd. Meanwhile, the French have been a founding member of the EU and one of its biggest proponents, and to my knowledge are less skeptical. They also haven't been getting as much anti-EU propaganda.
So no: Macron saying to have a desire for reform in the EU is not a risk leading up to a Frexit referendum, even if it was an attempt at fishing for some of the EU skeptics. Macron isn't Cameron, and France isn't the UK. Completely different scenarios.
Well they only have two options so your point is pointless. It's basically vote for Macron or leave the EU. I just don't get what you're getting at, it makes no sense.
Alx
Member
Macron isn't trying to get eurosceptics on his side : unlike Cameron, he's aiming at reforms to increase the involvement in EU, not the other way around.
Souldriver
Member
I actually think that a pro EU candidate saying a frexit is possible, is clumsy.
It plants a seed in the minds of people, even the ones not hating the EU, that the EU is fundamentally broken and that an exit is a viable option.
Even as I agree with the general idea that reforms are wanted to make the EU function better, conditioning that to an 'exit' just will make that 'exit' more popular with the public. It's a 'black or white' choice now, which is fucking stupid. Narrative becomes reality, and I won't take part in that.
It plants a seed in the minds of people, even the ones not hating the EU, that the EU is fundamentally broken and that an exit is a viable option.
Even as I agree with the general idea that reforms are wanted to make the EU function better, conditioning that to an 'exit' just will make that 'exit' more popular with the public. It's a 'black or white' choice now, which is fucking stupid. Narrative becomes reality, and I won't take part in that.
Red Arremer
Member
Did Macron say "reforms or frexit" though?
Alx
Member
Nah, it's a misunderstanding. He meant Frexit is the outcome they want to avoid at all costs.
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
More or less. DSK is dead because of being a rapist. Macron is cool because his wife is older. I think also that many people were tired of Holland intrepid sex life.
French are usually not as puritans as north americans, but i wouldn't say that somebody like Berlusconi would work in France.
Alx
Member
Well rape is a few levels above "affair", legally much worse than whatever other politicians may have done in the past (you don't go to the "assises" for stealing money). And even then, although it's not a pretty thing to admit, the DSK story was received with more benevolence in France than US.
Golden_Pigeon
Banned
Alx
Member
I didn't really expect Varoufakis of all people to be close to Macron (he's not really supportive of his program, but they seem to have had good interaction in the past)
http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/po...-sympathies-pour-emmanuel-macron_1903870.html
Full article (paid content) on Le Monde
http://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article...ver-la-grece-votez-pour-lui_5120673_3232.html
http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/po...-sympathies-pour-emmanuel-macron_1903870.html
Full article (paid content) on Le Monde
http://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article...ver-la-grece-votez-pour-lui_5120673_3232.html
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