Support NeoGAF

[Polk]

That would be a very strange thing to lie about.

Not really, unless you really think they hit $0 difference between what they get selling 1 unit and what they paid to make it. They can make small loss or small profit without making that statement huge lie.
That statement is just accounting game. Do you include only BOM? BOM + wages? BOM + wages + R&D budget divided by projected number of consoles sold?

 

[ElfArmy177]

What exactly is the pc gamers argument? 60 fps is better? PC gaming is better? PC gaming is better value?

I mean this is like arguing manual Ford mustang is better than an automatic Honda accord. You still get from point a to b... But maybe in more style and it looks better. Consider maybe the accord meets the needs of the person who got it, and if they wanted they can get a fully loaded accord for the same price as a base mustang. Also consider the guy buying the accord doesn't give a flying donkey dick about your opinion and he's gonna buy the accord anyways. And now you look like an ass at the car dealer because.. eh I'm rambling.

 

[Hoffelcopter]

Figure out the loss on hardware and subtract the cost of OS and I bet you can build a PC for cheaper. No one knows how much MS is losing per console.

 

[GodofWine]

Posts like these are why these threads are insufferable. I would say that it outperforms the vast majority of gaming devices and pc's out there today....

Thats probably true.

 

[Ryoku]

Does there exist a shitty enough CPU in the high-end PC marketplace to drive the costs down? Lol.

Despite what Microsoft or the media may say, the OneX and high-end PC markets appeal to different audiences.

EDIT: Strictly speaking hardware-wise, I do believe the OneX is an okay value (aside from the CPU). But you don't buy hardware just for the hardware, right?

 

[ViolentP]

Posts like these are why these threads are insufferable. I would say that it outperforms the vast majority of gaming devices and pc's out there today....

You crazy, dawg.

 

[Theonik]

I'm not even a PC guy, but I'm gonna go ahead and say that the PC community will figure out a build that'll match, and even surpass the XBONEX by November.

Bet they'll cheat like they did with Pro and value it as an upgrade.

 

[Dr. Benton Quest]

Xbox One X is a good value.

It's just that a nice mid-range PC is a better value. Especially since it can play more than 10 games in 4K. And has free online, and hundreds of thousands of exclusives, and is backwards compatible to the beginning of gaming, and let's people choose between IQ and framerate, and can be upgraded, and etc, etc.

Spend the extra dollars and get something more for your money.

 

[Trup1aya]

They don't need to, they expose settings and leave it to end users.
I am even more sceptical that anyone at Xbox or the majority of their userbase want to see Pc style configuration screens in their console games.

As a console user I def don't want PC style configuration screens.

I wouldn't mind preset options though . Something like
High IQ: native 4K frame buffer
Performance: 1080p, settings conducive to high framerate a
High settings: checkerboard/dynamic w/ highest settings possible

 

[ElfArmy177]

Xbox One X is a good value.

It's just that a nice mid-range PC is a better value. Especially since it can play more than 10 games in 4K. And has free online, and hundreds of thousands of exclusives, and is backwards compatible to the beginning of gaming, and let's people choose between IQ and framerate, and can be upgraded, and etc, etc.

Spend the extra dollars and get something more for your money.

What if you don't like pc gaming and mouse and keyboard and sitting at a desk and driver issues and your friends all play Xbox?

 

[ViolentP]

Xbox One X is a good value.

It's just that a nice mid-range PC is a better value. Especially since it can play more than 10 games in 4K. And has free online, and hundreds of thousands of exclusives, and is backwards compatible to the beginning of gaming, and let's people choose between IQ and framerate, and can be upgraded, and etc, etc.

Spend the extra dollars and get something more for your money.

It's a great value if you have no interest in PC. If your interest lies in performance however, the choice should be clear. Sadly, many still believe the X to be more than it is.

 

[LordRaptor]

What exactly is the pc gamers argument?

My position is that - right now - the X1X paper specs are a paper tiger, so trying to match them on paper with a cost:benefit analysis is beyond dumb.

If third parties start putting in work like they never did with the PS4Pro, maybe those specs become more meaningful, but if they don't then you don't need to match the theoretical performance of an X1X, you only need to match actual performance.

 

[Yarbskoo]

Give it a year or two. You'll be playing those new games at 60fps like a pro.

 

[ViolentP]

My position is that - right now - the X1X paper specs are a paper tiger, so trying to match them on paper with a cost:benefit analysis is beyond dumb.

If third parties start putting in work like they never did with the PS4Pro, maybe those specs become more meaningful, but if they don't then you don't need to match the theoretical performance of an X1X, you only need to match actual performance.

Thank you.

 

[Dr. Benton Quest]

What if you don't like pc gaming and mouse and keyboard and sitting at a desk and driver issues and your friends all play Xbox?

Then sit on your couch and play with a controller?

Show your friends what your PC can do. I'm sure they'll come around. If they don't, looks like all Xbox stuff will be crossplay with W10 anyway.

 

[ElfArmy177]

My position is that - right now - the X1X paper specs are a paper tiger, so trying to match them on paper with a cost:benefit analysis is beyond dumb.

If third parties start putting in work like they never did with the PS4Pro, maybe those specs become more meaningful, but if they don't then you don't need to match the theoretical performance of an X1X, you only need to match actual performance.

That's the most valid argument I've heard so far. Essentially you're saying its wasted power?

 

[Battlechili]

I wonder if Microsoft will be selling the Xbox One X at a loss.

 

[ViolentP]

That's the most valid argument I've heard so far. Essentially you're saying its wasted power?

Not wasted. As of yet, unproven.

 

[ElfArmy177]

Then sit on your couch and play with a controller?

Show your friends what your PC can do. I'm sure they'll come around. If they don't, looks like all Xbox stuff will be crossplay with W10 anyway.

Did we add the cost of an Xbox controller and adapter to the pc stuff? Doesn't that increase it by 50-70$? Being a gamer who plays pc games on the couch I can say with all seriousness, its a pain in the ass compared to console gaming

 

[DrkSage]

What if you don't like pc gaming and mouse and keyboard and sitting at a desk and driver issues and your friends all play Xbox?

Da fuq?

 

[ViolentP]

Then sit on your couch and play with a controller?

Show your friends what your PC can do. I'm sure they'll come around. If they don't, looks like all Xbox stuff will be crossplay with W10 anyway.

PC really isn't for everyone. Yeah many like making a mountain out of a molehill but it does require more interaction than a console. Depending on which side of the fence you're on, that can be a benefit or a detriment.

 

[LordRaptor]

That's the most valid argument I've heard so far. Essentially you're saying its wasted power?

I am sure that MGS published titles will have the extra work done to make the X1X be all that it can be, and for people whose primary reason to buy an Xbox branded console is MGS published games, that will be enough of a commitment to make their purchase worthwhile to them.

 

[GodofWine]

My position is that - right now - the X1X paper specs are a paper tiger, so trying to match them on paper with a cost:benefit analysis is beyond dumb.

If third parties start putting in work like they never did with the PS4Pro, maybe those specs become more meaningful, but if they don't then you don't need to match the theoretical performance of an X1X, you only need to match actual performance.

Very True/ Destiny running at 1080p / 30 fps on XBX is a good example. By the time devs actually make games that push the hardware, you WILL be able to build a better PC for $500.

But for now, XBX is a very powerful $500 machine.

 

[Gren]

As a console user I def don't want PC style configuration screens.

I wouldn't mind preset options though . Something like
High IQ: native 4K frame buffer
Performance: 1080p, settings conducive to high framerate a
High settings: checkerboard/dynamic w/ highest settings possible

My dream would be if consoles could offer both options as this incremental upgrade model goes on. They already do on PC.

 

[Darkroronoa]

I am actually impressed with the Pcworld build. If you remove the "useless" optical drive and get a cheaper gpu like a 1060 6GB you will be a lot closer to an xBONEx price. By the time it releases you could match the performance with very similar priced PC.
Even at 650$ its a very good price for what you get.

Ofc the "true power" for the console is in the bluray player and the great form factor. If you want those and you dont care for online subs and dont buy many games, then at 500$ its a decent buy, but i still think they could do betetr with the price. Also lets notice that the console pricing is a bit better for europe where pc parts are a bit more expensive but consoles usually have a very close to 1$:1€.

 

[ElfArmy177]

Da fuq?

You ok?

 

[Dr. Benton Quest]

PC really isn't for everyone. Yeah many like making a mountain out of a molehill but it does require more interaction than a console. Depending on which side of the fence you're on, that can be a benefit or a detriment.

Man I understand your point. It's just that I think most of it is in their head. Almost everything is PnP now. It's not even what I would call extra work. Just the slightest bit more effort opens up a world of possibilities second to none.

 

[ViolentP]

Very True/ Destiny running at 1080p / 30 fps on XBX is a good example. By the time devs actually make games that push the hardware, you WILL be able to build a better PC for $500.

But for now, XBX is a very powerful $500 machine.

It really is. It should however be judged on it's actual performance versus spec sheets. ESO is a good example of a real life test case.

Man I understand your point. It's just that I think most of it is in their head. Almost everything is PnP now. It's not even what I would call extra work. Just the slightest bit more effort opens up a world of possibilities second to none.

You're absolutely right. Thing is, I think it's a small number that would change their minds once educated on the actual state of PC gaming while a majority don't want their opinions questioned.

 

[Kssio_Aug]

What if you don't like pc gaming and mouse and keyboard and sitting at a desk and driver issues and your friends all play Xbox?

I mean... nowadays you can play pretty much everything with a controller. And you can either chose PS4 or XB1 controller, among many others. Xbox controller is lireally plug and play nowadays. That's a non-issue.

And drivers are almost like console stability updates... so...

 

[WaterAstro]

They are not making or losing money on it.

They lied at their press conference, so I don't believe anything they say, really.

 

[Bustanen]

Sounds like an opinion. I find it high end. Infact I'm more impressed with ps pro games than my gaming more often than not

You act like the average gamer gives a damn about 60 fps. Is it nice? Damn right and I get irritated if my pc games go under 60. On console? I don't give a shit I just play the game and I want it to look pretty. Sure under 30 is bad and noticable.. but as long as it's stable at 30 im happy

to people here, myself included in having a more powerful pc? probably.

to people who will and have never owned or built a PC? sure as hell is

Posts like these are why these threads are insufferable. I would say that it outperforms the vast majority of gaming devices and pc's out there today....

A PC with a RX580 is considered medium end even with a much better CPU. High end means GTX1080 at least. It maybe console high end but doesn't compare to PCs in anything but price.

 

[ElfArmy177]

I mean... nowadays you can play pretty much everything with a controller. And you can either chose PS4 or XB1 controller, among many others. Xbox Controller is lireally plug and play nowadays. That's a non-issue.

And drivers are almost like console stability updates... so...

I disagree though. Are you telling me as a pc gamer you're not CONSTANTLY called to friends or families houses to fix their computers or gaming rigs?

 

[sleazefrenzy]

I dislike how these price comparison discussions always seem to take software out of the equation. Not sure about the US, but in the UK games are typically between £10 and £20 cheaper at launch on PC (via cdkeys / g2a etc) than Xbox games are on the store or retail (let's say £15 average).

If you buy a new game a month that's around £180'ish per year saving, plus no Xbox Live so say around at least £200. So in a 5 year span you could be spending about a grand extra on software with an Xbox than with a PC.

PC will always need some cash up front, but the savings over the years do make them good value when compared to a console, especially if you tend to buy a lot of games at launch. Or you could be really sensible and just wait for Steam sales.

 

[maxmars]

I think this comparison should be made in a few months when the 1X hits the road.. Right now you can't buy such a machine for $500.

 

[JudgmentJay]

I disagree though. Are you telling me as a pc gamer you're not CONSTANTLY called to friends or families houses to fix their computers or gaming rigs?

lol...

 

[DrkSage]

You ok?

I understand the friends argument, the rest is hyperbole much. Like sitting on a desk? Driver issues? Keyboard and mouse being the only playable way? Sounds like the priest at Sunday school saying touching your wee wee is bad

 

[LEDsForEyes]

Shouldn't take too long, but still I never understood this, it's never going to be a 1:1 comparison, a PC is a multi function device that is capable of far more than a console

Wonder why nobody ever takes this into consideration when they try to do this. The PC is not a dedicated gaming machine.

Also, we don't know the resolution\settings a lot of these XBoneX games will run at. We know they will be checkerboarding at 30 FPS for a lot of games and people are probably setting everything to ultra on PC.

 

[BigPapi]

They lied at their press conference, so I don't believe anything they say, really.

The full quote is facts though, that in the console business it's not the hardware that makes the money it's the games.

 

[ViolentP]

I disagree though. Are you telling me as a pc gamer you're not CONSTANTLY called to friends or families houses to fix their computers or gaming rigs?

Show me how to run a business out of a console and I will guarantee a market for support.

 

[Outrun]

and the $50/year to play games online

Goalposts successfully shifted.

 

[RedFury]

I disagree though. Are you telling me as a pc gamer you're not CONSTANTLY called to friends or families houses to fix their computers or gaming rigs?

Lol no but i don't mind if I was. It's fun consoles are stock cars you buy off a lot, PCs are hotrods. It's fun working on a friend's rat rod or whatever.

 

[Kssio_Aug]

I disagree though. Are you telling me as a pc gamer you're not CONSTANTLY called to friends or families houses to fix their computers or gaming rigs?

Nowadays? Honestly, no. And when it happens it's more related to silly things, as malwares or a how to open a zip file. lmao

I don't remember the last time someone asked me for help about their PC and it was related to drivers, since Windows install it all automatically for non-gamers. And for gamers, even casuals, there's a very simple interface that tells them there's a new graphic driver update, where they just need to click on install > express > clean install, and they're done.

 

[Kittehkraken]

Considering almost all of the games so far are running 4k 30fps on the One X, I'd say that is a more reasonable build goal for comparison.

You can build a 4k 30fps PC for around the cost of a One X. But a PC that does a solid 4k 60fps on everything not just a select few games is somewhere in the neighborhood of $1000.

 

[ElfArmy177]

Lol no but i don't mind if I was. It's fun consoles are stock cars you buy off a lot, PCs are hotrods. It's fun working on a friend's rat rod or whatever.

I agree and I love it as well. My point was the lack of knowledge the average consumer has on pc

You guys are expecting AVERAGE gamers to learn to build a PC...

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Article should note the massive hit to the electric bill as well. PC power isn't free brothers and sisters!

 

[ss_lemonade]

For the moment, Microsoft’s created a machine that the DIY PC crowd can’t currently match—not when you try to copy both feature set and the cost at the same time, at least. That might be a first, given how often PC gamers tout the benefits that console fans miss out on

Wasn't this the case when the first xbox came out? That had like a geforce 3 ti equivalent in it, plus a HDD and Celeron cpu. The GPU alone would have cost more than the console itself

 

[Lister]

Yeah come November we'll get a much better picture since w'ell have actual rela life performance that we can compare, and not just pure marketing.

 

[Dremorak]

They arent interchangable. On a PC you can do anything, play about 10X as many games, use it for work, for any type of media in existence pretty much.

IMO Spending 700~ or even a bit more for all the uses a PC has is more than worth it.
I mean, you can even play ALL the major XBONE games, and then on top of that all the other pc games.

 

[Sulik2]

This isn't a first at all. This was a major selling point of consoles for a decade from the mid-90s to 2005. The 2013 consoles are a weird side note for just how weak they were at launch. Consoles were traditionally better and cheaper then PC's could manage at anywhere close to their price point for a year or two after release. Heck the 360 GPU took a full two years to match with some of its features. Of course the down side of making consoles that bleeding edge is they are incredibly difficult to produce for the first year. This is just a return to form for consoles, if Microsoft had been following the old paradigm and been willing to sell at a loss the Scorpio would have only been $400 too.

 

[ElfArmy177]

They arent interchangable. On a PC you can do anything, play about 10X as many games, use it for work, for any type of media in existence pretty much.

IMO Spending 700~ or even a bit more for all the uses a PC has is more than worth it.
I mean, you can even play ALL the major XBONE games, and then on top of that all the other pc games.

You do know there are people who buy mid range cards for only 200$ cheaper than the top of the line right? Money is money... People can only justify so much