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[ViolentP]

Right, but I think it's worth pointing out that that price goes up with tech, the smaller you make something.


What if Microsoft could have sold Xbox X for 300 dollars instead of 500 if it had the size of a ATX PC case? I'm not saying that size would chop of 200 dollars of the asking price for Xbox X, but I'm saying is that it's not a fair comparison.
Of course it's not a fair comparison for PC as it ignores all its advantages.

Secondly, the RnD that went into the Xbox design is possible in the tens of millions (if not hundreds). It's not like a PC which is a modular system. Xboxs size factor def had something significant to do with its cost, and people are just being disingenious if they're going to ignore that.



Thirdly, you shouldn't ignore it, because mini and micro atx machines are getting fucking nuts. And thats not even getting into raspberry pi or all the amazing micro form factor gpus. Anyone seen the zotac 1080 ti mini? its fucking tiny and adorable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYazCttQgCg


I hope guys like Linus will take this as a challenge and instead of making a new "newegg build matches xbox x in apples to oranges situations"; to make a comparable sized system and see how far you can get.



Fourth: Things we still don't know about Xbox X; heat, noise, power brick(?). These things will matter. As will the build quality. This is the company that gave you red ring of death. Lets not act like Nintendo and Sony hasn't also had more and more shoddy quality control over the last few generations.

Fifth, Xbox One X looks pretty fucking sleek. There is some decent looking small form factor PCs, but I think Xbox X and S looks really sleek. They remind me of PS2 (in a good way). The reality is (like with apple) that design aeshetics also have a cost.


I think all of these factors should go into the consideration of a hypothetical debate about custom building a pc versus a console.



Xbox One X is in my mind really impresssive. As is the PS4 and PS4 pro when they came out. As is the Switch. These are all possible due to Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft buying insane volumes of materials and parts across the supply chain.

You get a lot for your money when you buy a console, and I am not insecure about saying that even if I personally prefer gaming on PC.

It wouldn't be fair for me to consider the fact that I can generate income with a PC in this argument. Form factor is preference and preference is something that should be omitted from a 1:1 attempt in my opinion.

And for what it's worth, I think the X is a great option for that price. Not trying to knock it here.

 

[Three]

They're likely taking a loss on the hardware.

No they likely aren't. These are parts that exist today for pc. They aren't bought in bulk or prebuilt either. The XOX is being sold for a profit. The machine should have been cheaper.

 

[ViolentP]

No they likely aren't. These are parts that exist today for pc. They aren't bought in bulk or prebuilt either. The XOX is being sold for a profit. The machine should have been cheaper.

Every story I'm pulling up is saying it's sold at a loss.

 

[rtcn63]

No they likely aren't. These are parts that exist today for pc. They aren't bought in bulk or prebuilt either. The XOX is being sold for a profit. The machine should have been cheaper.

The UHD drive + 4K blu-ray capability is probably the main reason it costs as much as it does. But it's what consumers seemingly want, so MS is making them pay to play. They're betting on a "one-and-done" device for the home theater/console gaming enthusiast market.

 

[KillLaCam]

By the time the console comes out they might

 

[Three]

Every story I'm pulling up is saying it's sold at a loss.

What story? is there a teardown I'm missing somewhere? The thing has a smaller piece of silicon than the xbox one original and doesn't come with kinect either. A UHD drive we know costs about 10$ on a BOM. Where is this cost coming from?

 

[ZOONAMI]

I'm not even a PC guy, but I'm gonna go ahead and say that the PC community will figure out a build that'll match, and even surpass the XBONEX by November.

You can build a 1060 ryzen 5 rig for $500. Already done.

 

[Goldenroad]

Dumbest article possible. One a pc has more overhead, two you're not buying the components of the PC for what Xbox buys the components of the box at cause you aren't buying millions at a time, and three a PC is expected (and does more) than a console

The dumbest part is you don't have to build an Xbox. You buy it. A more fair comparison would be buying a PC as powerful as the XBOX 1X. It's like comparing the cost of cooking a steak to going out at a restaurant and buying one. The fact is, if I'm buying some Kobe beef or whatever, I don't even want to consider taking the chance of me screwing up a $60 steak, and am willing to pay someone a little extra to cook it for me, and if it comes out overcooked, they can take it back and bring me out a new one.

 

[Kittehkraken]

Just looked at pics, is it possible to fit similar spec'd machine in there? Would it be as quite? I believe the X is slight more noisy then then S.

Sure, find a Mini ITX case you like and build around it. The GTX 1060 and 1070 both come in small form factor designs.

I doubt it would be any louder, you could probably make the PC quieter.

 

[b0bbyJ03]

I'm a pc advocate as it is my favorite platform but console does have its advantages and I don't understand the need for fanboys to try and take those away. If we r talking just gaming, pound for pound the Xbox has more value hardware wise. PC has a million other advantages so y not just let this one thing go. Lol

 

[Zaru]

The One X is great value for the money in 2017, that's hard to argue.
But it's also in the complicated region of being quite expensive for a console but also on the lower end for enthusiasts (especially with no upgrade possibility and very limited use).

 

[ViolentP]

What story? is there a teardown I'm missing somewhere? The thing has a smaller piece of silicon than the xbox one original and doesn't come with kinect either. A UHD drive we know costs about 10$ on a BOM. Where is this cost coming from?

Phil Spencer has said himself it is selling at a loss but I haven't seen a breakdown myself. I'm no authority on these component costs so I am going by what numerous outlets are reporting.

 

[rtcn63]

Phil Spencer has said himself it is selling at a loss but I haven't seen a breakdown myself. I'm no authority on these component costs so I am going by what numerous outlets are reporting.

To be fair, Phil Spencer is not... someone... who has been completely honest with the things he's said... supposedly.

(He's a PR device)

 

[petran79]

A PC can be a console replacement.
A console can never be a PC replacement.

 

[PrimeBeef]

Of course an individual could not build a PC for $500 with XB1X specs. Individuals do not jave the bulk buying power of MS to get componets cheaper than retail.

 

[ViolentP]

To be fair, Phil Spencer is not... someone... who has been completely honest with the things he's said... supposedly.

(He's a PR device)

Is there any proof that it's sold at a profit?

 

[rtcn63]

Is there any proof that it's sold at a profit?

Is there any proof that it isn't or at breakeven? (I haven't kept up with XBX threads so I actually don't know)

 

[Gamezone]

It's a console, so I didn't expect them to find a better. But the Xbox One X hasn't been released yet, and they will probably figure it out soon.

 

[ViolentP]

Is there any proof that it isn't or at breakeven? (I haven't kept up with XBX threads so I actually don't know)

EDIT: Sorry, just realized this conversation didn't start with you. I was referring to the previous poster that claimed that it was in fact sold at a profit. I was curious of that source.

 

[Fredrik]

I'm not even a PC guy, but I'm gonna go ahead and say that the PC community will figure out a build that'll match, and even surpass the XBONEX by November.

That's my guess too.

But it really doesn't matter. When you've decided that you want to jump in on PC gaming you won't land at $500 or even $800, and you won't complain about it either because you know when you're done that your PC will not only match the consoles but will be far far ahead of them too.

My triple screen PC rig with gsync and a nice steering wheel has cost me nearly $3000 and I'm perfectly fine with that. It's so far ahead of consoles that I'm guessing not even the next gen of consoles will touch it.
MS gets lots of bashing here for releasing their exclusives on PC too but I'm so glad they're doing that. Forza 7 will be glooorious on PC.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

It wouldn't be fair for me to consider the fact that I can generate income with a PC in this argument. Form factor is preference and preference is something that should be omitted from a 1:1 attempt in my opinion.

And for what it's worth, I think the X is a great option for that price. Not trying to knock it here.

I disagree. Preference doesn't make smaller tech not more expensive.


It's like saying that Iphone 7 is shit because I can build as twice as powerful a machine for half the price. You'd HAVE to take Iphones form factor into consideration. Yes it's weaker and smaller, but the engineering that went into it is unfair to compare to a 300 dollars best buy garbage prebuilt pc even though its more powerful than the iphone.




Standard laptops are another example of this. Why is it that a standard 15 inch laptop bottom tier acer or dell laptop or hp laptop are almost always cheaper than the ultrabooks with less materials used? Again- the parts and engineering used to make the shit fit into a smaller chassis goes up a lot even compared to a 15 inch requiring a lot more materials.

It tells us that standard form factor off-the-shelves components have a massive advantage price wise.

 

[Magwik]

You can build a 1060 ryzen 5 rig for $500. Already done.

Bullshit

 

[joecanada]

By the time the console comes out they might

consider black Friday sales too...... while there's little chance that x1X has significant sales on BF, there's a 100 percent possibility that pc hardware will be on sale.

That's my guess too.

But it really doesn't matter. When you've decided that you want to jump in on PC gaming you won't land at $500 or even $800, and you won't complain about it either because you know when you're done that your PC will not only match the consoles but will be far far ahead of them too.

My triple screen PC rig with gsync and a nice steering wheel has cost me nearly $3000 and I'm perfectly fine with that. It's so far ahead of consoles that I'm guessing not even the next gen of consoles will touch it.
MS gets lots of bashing here for releasing their exclusives on PC too but I'm so glad they're doing that. Forza 7 will be glooorious on PC.

huh? 800 is plenty of money to spend on a well planned out pc.

 

[RRockman]

These threads are fun because no one can decide what acronyms to use for the Xbox. I like XBX myself.

 

[ViolentP]

I disagree. Preference doesn't make smaller tech not more expensive.


It's like saying that Iphone 7 is shit because I can build as twice as powerful a machine for half the price. You'd HAVE to take Iphones form factor into consideration. Yes it's weaker and smaller, but the engineering that went into it is unfair to compare to a 300 dollars best buy garbage prebuilt pc even though its more powerful than the iphone.




Standard laptops are another example of this. Why is it that a standard 15 inch laptop bottom tier acer or dell laptop or hp laptop are almost always cheaper than the ultrabooks with less materials used? Again- the parts and engineering used to make the shit fit into a smaller chassis goes up a lot even compared to a 15 inch requiring a lot more materials.

It tells us that standard form factor off-the-shelves components have a massive advantage price wise.

I'm not saying preference has any sway over costs. Not what I am saying at all. I am saying that a cost comparison between 2 devices in regards to power should not take form factor into consideration. One could be the size of a house and the other the size of a phone. If they cost the same and produce the same output, the parity has been met in the metric of cost/performance.

Now if you bring preference into play, one will almost certainly pick the smaller size. Not sure what that has anything to do with creating a performance/cost parity though.

 

[LCGeek]

That's my guess too.

But it really doesn't matter. When you've decided that you want to jump in on PC gaming you won't land at $500 or even $800, and you won't complain about it either because you know when you're done that your PC will not only match the consoles but will be far far ahead of them too.

My triple screen PC rig with gsync and a nice steering wheel has cost me nearly $3000 and I'm perfectly fine with that. It's so far ahead of consoles that I'm guessing not even the next gen of consoles will touch it.
MS gets lots of bashing here for releasing their exclusives on PC too but I'm so glad they're doing that. Forza 7 will be glooorious on PC.

Your rig of the screens cause quite frankly you don't need much for a rig to way out perform an XOX at certain levels even 4k30fps using console based settings and optimiazation. However a triple screen with enough juice isn't common even for enthusiast considering what needed for 3x res even at 60fps not even considering the resolution you use yet. Outstrips what I like with lightboost even at 1440p@100fps@100hz. A console next generation isn't going to come close to what power is in that beast.

I'm glad MS is appealing to me when it can which is lot better than the situation they put me in going from 360/Pc to basically nothing during X1 even on the PC outside FH3. One MS is getting our business the other is struggling to wonder why they should remain in gaming.

 

[lastrealgameralive]

Even if you can't build as strong a PC for the cash-equivalent of XOX, if you throw in one or two hundred dollars more you can achieve a far more powerful system... It's not like you can spend $500 more on XOX and its power increases ten-fold.

 

[Goldenroad]

A PC can be a console replacement.
A console can never be a PC replacement.

What if all you use your PC for is playing games and streaming Netflix and Youtube? Once you're out of school, you generally don't have much need in your day to day life for word processors and spreadsheets. I can send email and brows the web on my phone or tablet. What else am I missing?

I get that you meant that "A console, for some people, can not replace their PC", but I just gave you an example of why you can't say "never".

 

[ViolentP]

What if all you use your PC for is playing games and streaming Netflix and Youtube? Once you're out of school, you generally don't have much need in your day to day life for word processors and spreadsheets. I can send email and brows the web on my phone or tablet. What else am I missing?

I get that you meant that "A console, for some people, can not replace their PC", but I just gave you an example of why you can't say "never".

I think he means in regards to functionality. If you game on a console, you can migrate to a PC. If you utilize any functionality offered by a PC, you cannot migrate to a console.

 

[Three]

For anyone wondering:
"No," Xbox leader Phil Spencer told me in an interview this week, after I asked him if Microsoft makes any money selling the Xbox One X at $500.
"So, you're taking a loss?" I said. "I didn't answer it that way," he responded, intentionally not giving details.

I wouldn't take that as meaning it's sold at a loss. There is also only that one interview.

 

[ghibli99]

These threads are fun because no one can decide what acronyms to use for the Xbox. I like XBX myself.

It was the same with the Xbox One at first too... saw everything from X1 to XBO to XB1. Still do, in fact.

 

[jack....]

You can build a 1060 ryzen 5 rig for $500. Already done.

Inlcuding the OS and an Xbox controller? I'd like to see that.

 

[ViolentP]

For anyone wondering:
"No," Xbox leader Phil Spencer told me in an interview this week, after I asked him if Microsoft makes any money selling the Xbox One X at $500.
"So, you're taking a loss?" I said. "I didn't answer it that way," he responded, intentionally not giving details.

I wouldn't take that as meaning it's sold at a loss. There is also only that one interview.

You specifically said it was selling at a profit, hence my confusion.

 

[Netherscourge]

If it's not sold at a loss, it's probably a break-even.

Selling games/accessories and XBL Gold will always be the primary money-makers for Xbox.

 

[fr0st]

You can build a 1060 ryzen 5 rig for $500. Already done.

Can the 1060 hit 4k?

 

[Kaako]

Yea if MS isn't selling at a profit, then they're definitely breaking even on the X. There is no way in hell they would take a loss on this premium console that will only sell to a niche group of their audience(hardcore of the hardcore).

 

[petran79]

I think he means in regards to functionality. If you game on a console, you can migrate to a PC. If you utilize any functionality offered by a PC, you cannot migrate to a console.

This sums it up. Regarding the first part, in the 90s and even during the last decade I wouldnt even dare to make such a thought, unless we were talking about emulation.

 

[ElfArmy177]

No they likely aren't. These are parts that exist today for pc. They aren't bought in bulk or prebuilt either. The XOX is being sold for a profit. The machine should have been cheaper.

Oh I forgot your uncle works at Microsoft or something?

 

[Sanctuary]

Shouldn't take too long, but still I never understood this, it's never going to be a 1:1 comparison, a PC is a multi function device that is capable of far more than a console

If nothing else, it might just be an extremely short case of 2006 again. For anything remotely similar in price, the console will win. For a few months. Then progressively lose ground all over again.

 

[EvB]

No they likely aren't. These are parts that exist today for pc. They aren't bought in bulk or prebuilt either. The XOX is being sold for a profit. The machine should have been cheaper.

Which parts are you talking about?

The HDMI cable?

 

[Bitch Pudding]

They're likely taking a loss on the hardware.

I don't think MS has to pay as much for those components as Joe the Plumber. Effect of scale is a thing.

 

[the_darkness]

I'm not even a PC guy, but I'm gonna go ahead and say that the PC community will figure out a build that'll match, and even surpass the XBONEX by November.

The cheaper build there is $150 over budget and uses components that are already at rock bottom prices. Only the GPU will come down in any significant way and that will be $50 at most.

 

[Bustanen]

Fourth: Things we still don't know about Xbox X; heat, noise, power brick(?). These things will matter. As will the build quality. This is the company that gave you red ring of death. Lets not act like Nintendo and Sony hasn't also had more and more shoddy quality control over the last few generations.

No power brick, same as the S. The cooler on the other hand is different, with a smaller fan which has to cool the PSU as well.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=240630670&postcount=1

 

[the_darkness]

You can build a 1060 ryzen 5 rig for $500. Already done.

lol

 

[joecanada]

Can the 1060 hit 4k?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aud_Xa57Dio&t=439s

yes.

my friend just bought a 60 inch 4k tv specifically for his 1060

 

[Three]

You specifically said it was selling at a profit, hence my confusion.

Yes but that is because I think it is. I think the BOM on the thing is not that high especially as we are taking about a smaller die size than an original X1 and no Kinect. We know that the BOM for the UHD drive is ~$10 so I don't see where that ~$100 is coming from. Phil and MS are masters of deflection and PR spin they often give some sentence that can be misinterpreted intentionally (just look at any npd statement). He answered are you making any money from selling the XBX at $500 and his answer was no but he intentionally didn't answer if they are selling the hardware at a loss. If the answer he gave was the correct and clear answer there would be no need for this corporate doublespeak and confusion he would simply say yes we are selling the hardware at a loss I already answered. He however starts talking about "aggregates". One possiblity is that they may pump a lot of money into marketing for the XBX like they did the XB1 and he sees that as a loss but he hopes it will drive software and XBL sales overall and they still may not be selling the hardware at a loss.

 

[Sanctuary]

Bullshit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tG_-H9dVuI

Technically, since it's a 1050. Who knows five months from now?

Inlcuding the OS and an Xbox controller? I'd like to see that.

The OS cost makes sense, but what's this new fixation with a controller? Are we seriously supposed to be doing a build for someone who doesn't own a single game controller, nor a mouse or keyboard? Come on.

The last time a box this potent came out was probably the launch xbox 360 , if you got the model without a hard drive ? shit you were getting the equivalent of a 1200$ gaming PC for 300 USD. Course the trade off was that the console melted itself every 90 days ...

Right, which is why I said if anything, the launch of the XBOX will be a shorter version of 2006. As far as the actual price you would want to start at for a real gaming PC? I'm not sure anyone is serious when talking about the $400 - $800 PCs for "hardcore gaming". At least not with modern games anyway. Hell, $800 is getting you about equivalent performance of the current gen consoles when you factor in the total price for everything you need. Maybe slightly better, but that has more to do with tweaking options than anything.

 

[Pachinko]

The sticking point is the crapass CPU in a semi-competent setup that the Onyx is using. You can't really buy some thing similar so you have to go for something "close".

And yeah, good luck building something like that for 500 USD that ticks every bullet point. The thing is though... the Onyx is NOT a PC so, even if you decide to build one for say ... 1000$ and you intend to do typical desktop things with it ? well, you're getting your moneys worth out of that extra 500 $ then aren't you ?

The last time a box this potent came out was probably the launch xbox 360 , if you got the model without a hard drive ? shit you were getting the equivalent of a 1200$ gaming PC for 300 USD. Course the trade off was that the console melted itself every 90 days ...

That's kind of how I view the Onyx ( I refuse to call it the xbox one x because that's just plain stupid sounding) , it's the true xbox 360 successor , the regular old xbox one was a shitty follow up to the Kinect and it's now fully divorced from that hunk of junk.

Knowing half as much as a regular PC hardware guy would - I'd assume that you could get a mid range AMD CPU paired with an ATI 480 8 GB (only 8/9 out of 12 gb is usable for games remember) , throw in 16 GB of DDR4 because it's a PC so it needs more ram than a console , use the smallest PSU and cheapest cooling system housed in the smallest tower money can buy and even just that box ... well, plus a copy of windows 10 ... is going to run you at least 800$ right ? and due to the customized console coding wizardry , it may falter compared to Onyx anyway.

This is why I suggest just building a 1000$+ PC if you want a PC .

 

[Freshmaker]

They should've used the Potato Masher technique. Take a fully built gaming system, sell your 1070, and then buy the 1080ti. Instant system that costs the same as a XOX.

 

[Magwik]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tG_-H9dVuI

Technically, since it's a 1050. Who knows five months from now?

The irony is that the build today is much more expensive.
And there is a substantial difference from a 1050 to 1060.