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[Silky]

whatever. im skeptical, but hey it's a step if anything

 

[PuppetMaster]

Penny Arcade is awesome.

Funny how they are getting backlash just for being popular from the new kids

 

[JoRo]

Good lord, you'd think this guy killed a whole bunch of puppies going by some of these posts already. I'm not trying to excuse his behavior, but is it possible to hear a man out in good faith without tearing him down? What would you have him do? What would be enough? Should he be held responsible for his hurtful actions? Yes. Should he be reminded of his mistakes constantly for the rest of his life? You can count me out on that one. "He who is without sin cast the first stone" and all that. Don't become the jerk he has been by throwing him to the dogs when he comes forward with an apology. The very fact that you can take his words and believe they come from a well-meaning place should be enough. Just hold him accountable from this moment on. Maybe he won't change, and, in that case, what did you lose by giving him the benefit of the doubt? The opportunity to spit some venom and say, "I told you so?" What a miserable way to live.

 

[TheFatMan]

Good on Mike.

I see a lot of people in this thread throwing the proverbial "poop" around at Mike because he tried to explain his faults. And I think that is pretty shameful on the part of those posters.

We have all done crappy things to other people in our lives, hell I'd bet a lot of us have been REAL ass hats to people for petty reasons like jealousy or spite. The primary difference is that we aren't being examined and judged by literally hundreds of thousands of internet users.

I bet less than half of us would have the balls to then stand up in front of those same people and admit we were being a selfish ass bully.

So, good on Mike. And to everyone giving him crap, get over yourselves.

 

[Cyrano]

Yeah, there are plenty of people who had shitty childhoods who didn't grow up to be acidic towards homosexuals and women.

I mean, as with last thread about him talking about himself and how sorry he is... Good for him for making some kind of progress, but an apology should be him acknowledging where he fucked up and saying he's sorry and not "I was an asshole, but YOU KNOW....."

Yeah, this is pretty much how it reads for me. He should have simply said, after the first two sentences, "I'm sorry." Then he probably should have said what he's sorry for and why, rather than telling us a personal story. It reads as if it's a story about him and not the people he hurt.

 

[Dreamwriter]

To quote:



So, sorry, he didn't say he regretted it, he said it was a "mistake," when the reason they pulled it in the first place was that it made people uncomfortable.

No, you aren't understanding what was said, and only including the bits of quote that support you being able to hate him. When Khoo asked what biggest mistake he (Khoo) had made, Gabe responded that pulling the Dickwolves shirts was, because that act is what triggered Gabe's stupid and controversial comments. He wasn't saying it was a mistake because the shirts should stay there, but because it triggered the internet conversations that ended with Gabe making a complete ass of himself, over and over. It's basically a 20/20 hindsight thing.

Yeah, this is pretty much how it reads for me. He should have simply said, after the first two sentences, "I'm sorry." Then he probably should have said what he's sorry for and why, rather than telling us a personal story. It reads as if it's a story about him and not the people he hurt.

Because it's not an apology, it's his new year's resolution. He's explaining what the problem is, why it's such a hard thing to change, and resolving to change it over the next year.

 

[chrominance]

This is a good first step. If it's followed by good second, third, fourth and fifth steps (and so on) then maybe Penny Arcade and Mike can put this whole prolonged episode of offensiveness behind them. I really hope that's what happens and wish Mike luck on his road back to not being an asshole about things he doesn't need to be an asshole about.

 

[Big-ass Ramp]

Also a good step and one I recognized at the time, but frankly, it's up to trans people to decide whether to forgive him on that particular score.



WTF, no, of course I'm not just going to automatically accept their apology. You can't possibly be serious with this.

Let's try to recontextualize this. Imagine you have a kid, and they do some bratty but normal kid thing, like not sharing a toy at recess. In response, this other kid's parent gets mad and socks them in the face, gives them a black eye, they have to go home, stay out of school for a few days, giant swelling, can't see right, the whole nine yards.

Are you telling me that in this scenario, you'd accept an apology for that? That you'd make your kid, who was defenseless and did nothing remotely proportional to deserve it, accept an apology? That you'd ever consider that person remotely safe to be around children again? Forgiveness is proportional to behavior.

I don't disagree with you, but where's the line of being justifiably upset and using the opportunity to be offended? I'm honestly just curious what you would consider to be a victim complex. I agree that what Mike said was abhorrent, but I feel like some people in here make a good point.

 

[charlequin]

Why should we? Does knowing his personal story increase the likelihood of his apology being sincere?

The only thing that actually determines whether the apology has value is his future behavior.

Inasmuch as the story shows an inkling of self-awareness I consider it a positive thing to share in and of itself, and as long as he doesn't try to use it as an explicit excuse for his behavior I don't think it detracts.

While I agree you are whatever gender you decide you are, there's always grounds to discuss the differences between the genitalia you're given and someone who is transgendered.

Sure. The way to do this is to engage in reasoned conversation with people who have expressed interest in delving into the subject with you, not ranting about your preconceptions to whoever happens to look at your Twitter timeline.

 

[Sibylus]

Hope he'll be good to his word, and I nonetheless have to respect the guy for doing this publicly.

 

[Silky]

Good lord, you'd think this guy killed a whole bunch of puppies going by some of these posts already. I'm not trying to excuse his behavior, but is it possible to hear a man out in good faith without tearing him down? What would you have him do? What would be enough? Should he be held responsible for his hurtful actions? Yes. Should he be reminded of his mistakes constantly for the rest of his life? You can count me out on that one. "He who is without sin cast the first stone" and all that. Don't become the jerk he has been by throwing him to the dogs when he comes forward with an apology. The very fact that you can take his words and believe they come from a well-meaning place should be enough. Just hold him accountable from this moment on. Maybe he won't change, and, in that case, what did you lose by giving him the benefit of the doubt? The opportunity to spit some venom and say, "I told you so?" What a miserable way to live.

people have every right to be skeptical because he does this every fucking time.
he should be held responsible for his hurtful actions. He's a man. man up to his mistakes, which i hope it sounds like he's doing.
he should be reminded of his mistakes in an attempt to apply them and make himself, or others better people. humans learn from errors, and this is arguably an error.

i get where you're coming from tho

 

[theJohann]

The point of the personal story isn't just "this is what happened to me" though, its "this is what happened to me and this is how I perceived it and justified myself and now I look back and realize I was wrong"

The entire first half of that is irrelevant. Everyone has their own story. Anyone can write any number of paragraphs, articles, or books about their own story.

I assume you italicised the second part because it is the most important aspect of the sentence. I don't disagree with you.

 

[ZedIndyLil]

Pretty heartfelt, and I hope he follows through in it. But for now I'll continue to respect his comic (when it's funny) and not respect much else.

 

[Jobbs]

I have insecurities from childhood, but I've managed to limit my bad behavior to league of legends games where I behave childishly to total strangers.

anyway, I have no idea if this is a business move or if he's sincere. I suspect some measure of each. that said, I didn't have a kick ass childhood either, and I can't really relate to saying some of the things he has said. I've never had that urge, or even that ability.

I wonder if there was also something in his childhood that keeps him from using punctuation in his articles.

 

[ZealousD]

Why should we? Does knowing his personal story increase the likelihood of his apology being sincere?

If he just said "I'm sorry, I won't do it again", would anybody believe him? Probably not.

If he tells his story, it gives us more information to go on. If we understand his emotions and his state of mind, it better connects us with how he is feeling and so it helps convey whether or not he is sincere. Giving a very short and terse apology doesn't convince anyone.

 

[JoRo]

The only thing that actually determines whether the apology has value is his future behavior.

Inasmuch as the story shows an inkling of self-awareness I consider it a positive thing to share in and of itself, and as long as he doesn't try to use it as an explicit excuse for his behavior I don't think it detracts.

Great post. This is the important part. It's how a man reacts to the present with the knowledge of his past that determines his authenticity.

 

[Jackson]

Also a good step and one I recognized at the time, but frankly, it's up to trans people to decide whether to forgive him on that particular score.



WTF, no, of course I'm not just going to automatically accept their apology. You can't possibly be serious with this.

Let's try to recontextualize this. Imagine you have a kid, and they do some bratty but normal kid thing, like not sharing a toy at recess. In response, this other kid's parent gets mad and socks them in the face, gives them a black eye, they have to go home, stay out of school for a few days, giant swelling, can't see right, the whole nine yards.

Are you telling me that in this scenario, you'd accept an apology for that? That you'd make your kid, who was defenseless and did nothing remotely proportional to deserve it, accept an apology? That you'd ever consider that person remotely safe to be around children again? Forgiveness is proportional to behavior.

I think you're confusing forgiveness with a lot of other behavioral concepts. I'm just going to c/p wikipedia's entry because it does a good job of describing forgiveness vs. other behaviors:

Forgiveness is the intentional and voluntary process by which a victim undergoes a change in feelings and attitude regarding an offense, lets go of negative emotions such as revenge, with an increased ability to wish the offender well. Forgiveness is different from condoning (failing to see the action as wrong and in need of forgiveness), excusing (not holding the offender as responsible for the action), pardoning (granted by a representative of society, such as a judge), forgetting (removing awareness of the offence from consciousness), and reconciliation (restoration of a relationship).

My point was you can forgive and never see that person again. You can forgive and let that person go to jail. You can forgive without excusing their previous actions. You can forgive without condoning those actions.

Holding grudges towards others after they've asked for sincere forgiveness only affects you internally at that point. And again it doesn't mean you need to do any of the above in addition to simply forgiving them.

I do have child, I could forgive that person and still not let them hang around us because it's potentially dangerous.

But like I said, I feel like there's no way we're going to come together on this. So I'll just drop it.

 

[Neo Ankh]

So he says he's a jerk because people were mean to him when he was young. He understands that being the jerk that he is hurts the PA brand so he's going to try to not be such a jerk. OK.

 

[charlequin]

I don't disagree with you, but where's the line of being justifiably upset and using the opportunity to be offended? I'm honestly just curious what you would consider to be a victim complex. I agree that what Mike said was abhorrent, but some people in here make a good point.

I think in general our culture gives too little credit to people who have been victimized and is too quick to forgive people who victimize as long as they have money or power, so I would generally be loathe to attribute a "victim complex" to anyone who's pushing back against societal or institutional abuse.

That said, there's certainly a point in interpersonal interaction where a person can ride a slight too far. When you're just talking about a small number of people interacting directly, you can generally spot this when someone keeps asking for more and more stuff in "payment" for the wrongs done to them. In most cases this presages a co-dependent abusive relationship. The healthier response, in most cases, is just to cut off ties, not forgive the person but also not engage with them anymore.

(I'll note that this underlies some of the public responses to flubs like this -- there's a lot of people who don't actually want anything from people like Mike except to not have to ever hear from them again.)

 

[Anung]

The very, very short version:

• After they drew a comic with a joke that people said made light of rape survivors (arguable) he doubled down on the joke, printed up shirts with it, bragged about wearing one to the con, and then later told people he regretted pulling the shirts from the store.
• Went on a giant twitter rant about how trans people aren't really of their preferred gender and can't ever be, because of their birth genitals.
• PA as an organization listed a ludicrous job listing for an IT person that any serious professional would scoff at, with the hope that fanboyism would trick people into working for less than they were worth.

There's other stuff, but those are the three big hits.

Ahhhh, I do seem to remember outrage over "dickwolves" or something like that. I'll check the rest out on the net Thanks.

 

[Marcel]

It's about as much of an adult apology as Mike is willing to make. A shame a majority of it is some after-school special level origin story for being childishly bigoted rather than directly owning what he did to survivors of rape and the transgendered.

We'll see if his actions line up with his prose...or if he is simply full of shit as I'm inclined to believe.

 

[Cyrano]

Because it's not an apology, it's his new year's resolution. He's explaining what the problem is, why it's such a hard thing to change, and resolving to change it over the next year.

Healing animosity is being self-aware enough to realize that an apology would be the best way to start such a resolution. I hope I eat my words and that's exactly what he does soon.

 

[DonMigs85]

Wasn't Mike supposed to be a Christian or something?

 

[ZealousD]

Wasn't Mike supposed to be a Christian or something?

What would that have to do with anything?

 

[teiresias]

Do we have independent verification that this sob-story is even true?

 

[TheFatMan]

It's about as much of an adult apology as Mike is willing to make. A shame a majority of it is some after-school special level origin story for being childishly bigoted rather than directly owning what he did to survivors of rape and the transgendered.

We'll see if his actions line up with his prose...or if he is simply full of shit as I'm inclined to believe.

I didn't see him making any excuses for being the way he was, and he seemed to be taking pretty direct blame for his actions.

Everyone is the way they are for one reason or another, I hardly think understanding those behaviors makes it a cop-out. In fact, one could argue ignoring those reasons would be counter productive to fixing the problem. After all, the first step is admitting you have a problem.

 

[Jackson]

Do we have independent verification that this sob-story is even true?

lol, you can't be for real.

 

[charlequin]

I think you're confusing forgiveness with a lot of other behavioral concepts.

No, I'm not. The idea that people must be forgiven regardless of what they've done is one of the most insidious and powerful tools in the abuser's toolkit. This is what drives people back into the arms of parents who mistreated them their whole life; what keeps victims of physical abuse from leaving their spouses; what prevents serious institutional reform of organizations like the Catholic church that have cosigned and hidden abuse for decades.

If you talk to people who have serious training in counseling abuse survivors, one of the things they'll tell you upfront is that you don't have to forgive people, and that in many cases, it's much healthier to never forgive people who have mistreated you; it's much more important to keep the knowledge of why what was done to you was fucked up, and break the cycle by not repeating any of it.

So yeah, I'm not big on forced forgiveness.

 

[JoRo]

people have every right to be skeptical because he does this every fucking time.
he should be held responsible for his hurtful actions. He's a man. man up to his mistakes, which i hope it sounds like he's doing.
he should be reminded of his mistakes in an attempt to apply them and make himself, or others better people. humans learn from errors, and this is arguably an error.

i get where you're coming from tho

I'm not disagreeing with you. I do apologize as I haven't really followed this whole Penny Arcade controversy in much detail, but if he consistently says he will change and doesn't, then people would do right to call him out on it. But it doesn't have to be in a hateful way. Just remember people are bound to trip and fall now and then. It sounds like he really struggles with restraint in some ways.

 

[Marcel]

Do we have independent verification that this sob-story is even true?

It rings true to me since Mike basically acknowledges that he has all the nuance of a 36-year old wounded manchild in the realms of gender issues and sexual assault.

 

[Big-ass Ramp]

I think in general our culture gives too little credit to people who have been victimized and is too quick to forgive people who victimize as long as they have money or power, so I would generally be loathe to attribute a "victim complex" to anyone who's pushing back against societal or institutional abuse.

That said, there's certainly a point in interpersonal interaction where a person can ride a slight too far. When you're just talking about a small number of people interacting directly, you can generally spot this when someone keeps asking for more and more stuff in "payment" for the wrongs done to them. In most cases this presages a co-dependent abusive relationship. The healthier response, in most cases, is just to cut off ties, not forgive the person but also not engage with them anymore.

(I'll note that this underlies some of the public responses to flubs like this -- there's a lot of people who don't actually want anything from people like Mike except to not have to ever hear from them again.)

Interesting. Thank you for the response.


I think the only thing that bothers me that should Mike act perfect from here on out, there will still be people five years from now that will bring up his past sins as a reason to dismiss him. Some people are out for blood, will never forgive and aren't looking for a person to improve. That bugs me a little.

 

[GhostWriter24]

I cannot wait for the apology for this apology.

Keep digging that hole, Mike.

 

[tbm24]

I mean it caused problems for me, sure. I have a lot of character flaws because of it. But none of them excuse me being an asshole. It's all about finding ways to work around it. Either he's been spoiled or he doesn't care: at this point in his life he should have found numerous ways around his character flaws.

I'm just sick of him constantly doing the same thing over and over again. He's obviously not going to change, he needs to own up to it and be who he is.

I'd really like to now in what way is he excusing himself for how he is. He's acknowledging it and explaining why he ended up the way he is.

 

[ZealousD]

lol, you can't be for real.

It's not impossible that he's bluffing, but if he is bluffing, he's going all in here. Every single chip in the pot.

The backlash would be enormous if it was found out that he was lying in order to manipulate people's emotions. It's one thing to be an asshole to rape victims or transgender people. They're a minority. Some people would back him up. Lie to every single person in your readership? Hoo boy. That would sink the whole ship.

Not really inclined to believe he's lying myself, considering the potential consequences if he was.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Parts of it kind of read like "Please don't boycott PAX or withhold donations from Child's Play just because I'm an asshole -- I really don't have anything to do with those things anymore!"

Either that or he needs to seek help from a psychiatric professional because it sounds like he's having some sort of mid-life crisis and it all came crashing down on him. It's not like society in general is kind and gentle and fluffy and warm and such, and kids are fucking mean little bastards.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

No, I'm not. The idea that people must be forgiven regardless of what they've done is one of the most insidious and powerful tools in the abuser's toolkit. This is what drives people back into the arms of parents who mistreated them their whole life; what keeps victims of physical abuse from leaving their spouses; what prevents serious institutional reform of organizations like the Catholic church that have cosigned and hidden abuse for decades.

If you talk to people who have serious training in counseling abuse survivors, one of the things they'll tell you upfront is that you don't have to forgive people, and that in many cases, it's much healthier to never forgive people who have mistreated you; it's much more important to keep the knowledge of why what was done to you was fucked up, and break the cycle by not repeating any of it.

So yeah, I'm not big on forced forgiveness.

This, I can never understand why it's good to forgive people who fuck you up, let them get run over by a fucking truck.

 

[lexi]

I cannot wait for the apology for this apology.

Keep digging that hole, Mike.

I don't think the trans community ever got closure for the woeful 'apology' where he trotted out a trans co-worker, invoking the 'I got a trans friend' defense -- ironically this apology contained more transphobic content then anything he was actually trying to apologize for.

 

[Gxgear]

Actions speak louder than words, especially when the latter is postdated.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

It's not impossible that he's bluffing, but if he is bluffing, he's going all in here. Every single chip in the pot.

The backlash would be enormous if it was found out that he was lying in order to manipulate people's emotions. It's one thing to be an asshole to rape victims or transgender people. They're a minority. Some people would back him up. Lie to every single person in your readership? Hoo boy. That would sink the whole ship.

Not really inclined to believe he's lying myself, considering the potential consequences if he was.

Any time he's an asshole, or even appears to be an asshole, from here on out will become instant kindling for the conspiracy theory that he hasn't changed and will never change. I'll be up to the individual to really gauge the situation because as shown, there are those who will never ever accept anything Mike does or says as positive and will pounce on anything.

 

[urfe]

I haven't followed Penny Arcade, PAX or anything in a long time, and the only thing I do that was related to him is watch Extra Credits, which I love and is now not affiliated with them.

From my very outsider perspective it all reads like unnecessary drama that has no end. It honestly seems like people want to prove their side right more than achieve reconciliation sometimes (a tangential sentence).

Perhaps this is why my only link to an online gaming community is GAF gaming talk, and I avoid everything else.

I think it took balls to say what he said, and that he didn't need to. I'm glad my dickheaded behavior is not well documented on the internet, and the people who have put up with it have (for the most part) genuinely forgiven me (as I have done to others).

I don't understand really this story, but I wish the best for all, and hope some sort of understanding by all sides can occur.

edit: I've apologized for drinking too much a million times, and every time I mean it. I can't be the only one who can relate to relapsing.

 

[guek]

So, sorry, he didn't say he regretted it, he said it was a "mistake," when the reason they pulled it in the first place was that it made people uncomfortable.

context context context

I had to think really hard about it and the only time I could remember really thinking he made a mistake was when he told us we had to pull the Dickwolves merch. I didn’t really get a chance to elaborate on why that was though, and unfortunately by not doing so it created a bit of a firestorm on the Internet.

I absolutely regret everything we did after that comic. I regret the follow up strip, I regret making the merchandise, I regret pulling the merchandise and I regret being such an asshole on twitter to people who were upset. I don’t think any of those things were good ideas.

Everything we did after that initial comic strip was a mistake and I regret all of it.

This is what he meant, the soundbite you're quoting was poorly worded and taken out of context to insinuate what you're implying, that he regrets taking the shirt off the store because he still feels like he was right. What he meant and later clarified in the above quotes is that he regrets everything reaction they made to the controversy, including taking down the shirt, because it only made things worse.

 

[Jackson]

If you talk to people who have serious training in counseling abuse survivors, one of the things they'll tell you upfront is that you don't have to forgive people, and that in many cases, it's much healthier to never forgive people who have mistreated you;

Can you share some links to this concept? I'm genuinely interested to see licensed counselors say that never forgiving is healthier than forgiving. I'd like to understand their rationale.

Unless you mean that victims shouldn't excuse the behavior of their habitual abuser. Which is, of course, healthier for them since they won't be abused if they cut themselves off. And I agree with that fully, but again that has never been my argument the entire time. Forgiveness is not excusing. They are separate behavioral concepts. Also a habitual abuser is not seeking true forgiveness anyway.

 

[disastermouse]

I understand the wall he put up as a kid, but people tend to grow up as they hit adulthood and do not need to lash out at people who disagree with their opinions.

Well....as someone with a personality disorder (Mostly recovered, Borderline Personality Disorder) - I can tell you that the sort of thing Mike is talking about is a very vital first step if that's what he's got going on. If you're a smart person and good at arguing, you can convince yourself that other people are the problem for a long time. I can also tell you that an inappropriate 9/10 emotional response can be VERY convincing. Heck, personality disorder or no, these things are true.

To me, it sounds like he's owning the problem and the first part of the post is his introspection as to WHY he's the problem. He should probably be doing that with a therapist, but I don't see the problem with also doing it publically - except that it may invite attack and cause his defenses to go back up.

Mike, if you're reading this:

A bad therapist is worse than no therapist - Choose wisely!

Unmotivated patients don't get better.

If you get a diagnosis, remember you aren't defined by it.

 

[thetrin]

Isn't Penny Arcade just some comic?

No. It's also a multimillion dollar exposition created to bring gamers together and make them feel as if they're part of a community. I feel like people feign ignorance just to annoy posters.

 

[Risible]

No, I'm not. The idea that people must be forgiven regardless of what they've done is one of the most insidious and powerful tools in the abuser's toolkit. This is what drives people back into the arms of parents who mistreated them their whole life; what keeps victims of physical abuse from leaving their spouses; what prevents serious institutional reform of organizations like the Catholic church that have cosigned and hidden abuse for decades.

If you talk to people who have serious training in counseling abuse survivors, one of the things they'll tell you upfront is that you don't have to forgive people, and that in many cases, it's much healthier to never forgive people who have mistreated you; it's much more important to keep the knowledge of why what was done to you was fucked up, and break the cycle by not repeating any of it.

So yeah, I'm not big on forced forgiveness.

There's a very thin line between not forgiving someone and holding a grudge past the point of being healthy. Holding onto negativity and not letting things go can be poison in the well.

You seem to be very passionate about this issue. I don't know your history or anything about you, really, so it's hard for me to speak to your particular issue. I would caution, though, that being resolute in your intent to not give Krahulik a chance can lead to a way of thinking that's kind of like a mental arteriosclerosis.

 

[akira28]

Apology accepted Mike.

goddamn eyelash. I wonder what my bullies were going through.

 

[David H Wong]

I haven't followed Penny Arcade, PAX or anything in a long time, and the only thing I do that was related to him is watch Extra Credits, which I love and is now not affiliated with them.

From my very outsider perspective it all reads like unnecessary drama that has no end. It honestly seems like people want to prove their side right more than achieve reconciliation sometimes (a tangential sentence).

Perhaps this is why my only link to an online gaming community is GAF gaming talk, and I avoid everything else.

I think it took balls to say what he said, and that he didn't need to. I'm glad my dickheaded behavior is not well documented on the internet, and the people who have put up with it have (for the most part) genuinely forgiven me (as I have done to others).

I don't understand really this story, but I wish the best for all, and hope some sort of understanding by all sides can occur.

edit: I've apologized for drinking too much a million times, and every time I mean it. I can't be the only one who can relate to relapsing.

You have to remember how badly people want drama and villains in their lives. They don't want to hear he's learned or repented. They want to hate him, because hate feels awesome, and lowers the standard for your own behavior. That's why in real life, apologizing and making amends doesn't actually get cheers or congratulations from people - it gets a knee-jerk, "Well he's probably just lying."

We want the world to be full of monsters, because it makes us look better in comparison. So the people out there who have never created anything, or had even one one-millionth the impact PA has had on the world, need something to soothe their own ego. "Well, he's probably a horrible person, so in reality he's inferior to me, despite the fact that I have accomplished nothing in my own life."

It's not different from how any celebrity is treated - we want to see Justin Bieber self-destruct, we want to see these people "brought down."

Down here, to our level.

 

[shakin_haitian]

I like how so many people think that changing deep character flaws is like flipping a light switch. Just stop, ya know.

 

[charlequin]

Can you share some links to this concept?

http://www.drhurd.com/index.php/Dai...ment/You-Don-t-Have-to-Forgive-to-Forget.html

http://awakeblackwoman.wordpress.com/2013/10/28/you-dont-have-to-forgive/

In general, the idea is that "forgiveness" is actually offering something beneficial to the person being forgiven, without any concrete return. That can be very wonderful and healing, if you have a situation where a true relationship of trust can be born out of it, and what the person did is within the realm of what can actually be forgiven -- but in many cases, the best way for a person to protect themselves is not to give the person who wronged them that opportunity to do so again.

I would caution, though, that being resolute in your intent to not give Krahulik a chance can lead to a way of thinking that's kind of like a mental arteriosclerosis.

If you've followed my posts on this subject over time you'd see that I gave him quite a few chances. The last blow-up was a final straw for me and my standards for forgiveness went up a lot as a result; if he'd really learned from the first dickwolves controversy I don't think we'd be having this conversation.

All that said, I'm not the person being directly wronged by Mike and my forgiveness is a lot less relevant than those of the communities he's attacked directly.

 

[DonMigs85]

What would that have to do with anything?

Well generally people who profess to be Christians aren't terrible assholes unless they're from Westboro Baptist Church