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Pimax "8k" 200° FoV VR HMD KS page up (not live yet)
- Thread starter Durante
- Start date
I'm happy to see more Lighthouse based headsets. It'd be nice to be able to upgrade components like controllers, base stations, and headsets as I see fit instead of swapping it all out every time. But I think the Vive controllers aren't able to be used currently without the headset so this functionality is still probably a generation off. Maybe the Knuckles...
I remember during those interviews where Valve invited a bunch of press in to talk about their projects that Gabe said future generations of headsets would have much, much higher resolution screens and the improvements on that front would be rapid. I wonder if this kind of stuff is what he was thinking about.
Edit: Wait, their Kickstarter has reward tiers that include just the Headset if you have Vive lighthouses and controllers. Is the Pimax able to detect the Vive controllers or can you get a dongle?
I remember during those interviews where Valve invited a bunch of press in to talk about their projects that Gabe said future generations of headsets would have much, much higher resolution screens and the improvements on that front would be rapid. I wonder if this kind of stuff is what he was thinking about.
Edit: Wait, their Kickstarter has reward tiers that include just the Headset if you have Vive lighthouses and controllers. Is the Pimax able to detect the Vive controllers or can you get a dongle?
Do you think a gtx 980 will be enough to drive the 5k panel?
I'm also a little unsure of why the all-in units come with 2x lighthouses but the basic models only support 1 lighthouse for positional tracking.
I have lighthouses and controllers, but no vive - been playing with getting the psvr working with it using a vive tracker.
I'm also a little unsure of why the all-in units come with 2x lighthouses but the basic models only support 1 lighthouse for positional tracking.
I have lighthouses and controllers, but no vive - been playing with getting the psvr working with it using a vive tracker.
Norm from Tested is getting to test the "8K" HMD today apparently.
http://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/questions-to-norman/2829
Looking forward to his impressions.
Anyone (Durante?) figured how they'll handle the larger FoV of the display considering the current rendering being based around the smaller FoV and lenses?
Edit:
http://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/questions-to-norman/2829
Looking forward to his impressions.
Anyone (Durante?) figured how they'll handle the larger FoV of the display considering the current rendering being based around the smaller FoV and lenses?
Edit:
Norm on Reddit said:
200 is way past 'usable' with linear projection. As it is, big part of headsets around 100 needing so much supersampling is the linear projection to begin with.Durante said:
Multi-res helps, but lack of standards on the hw side and shoddy sw (on pc) makes it harder than it needs to be.
The per-eye Fov is certainly not 200, nor even close to it.
PimaxVR, via their official forum: "Yes，we will upgrade to TS4231 for the more feature support!"
The headsets are slated for December but the full kit for February, which may be in part due to them using 2.0 Lighthouses (speculation~). They did say though that they may ship out the headsets in Dec, and the rest in Feb if you back the full kit.
Also, unless the Kickstarter clarifies, the 5K version might not be an OLED. It sounds like it'll be using their 'CLPL' LCD screens like the 8K, with 90Hz refresh rate. On their forum, they state that the OLED version is the "5K BE (Business Edition), which runs at 75Hz.
Looks really promising, especially that 200º FOV, but how in the hell are you supposed to power this thing? I'm not even sure a 1080Ti is sufficient for a 4K display at 90FPS+. Their "BrainWarp" solution is really fascinating, and sounds like a great way to reduce performance overhead, but even still, 4K @ a VR-friendly framerate seems at least 1-2 years away for the general PC enthusiast.
A lack of foveated rendering also seems a bit strange, considering that seems like it would significantly cut down on performance needs.
Otherwise, this looks really good. Glad to see they're integrating with SteamVR, and the PSVR-style head mounting solution is really encouraging. I wonder if those controller prototypes are their final design, or if they'll go with a Knuckles variety once they start shipping these.
A lack of foveated rendering also seems a bit strange, considering that seems like it would significantly cut down on performance needs.
Otherwise, this looks really good. Glad to see they're integrating with SteamVR, and the PSVR-style head mounting solution is really encouraging. I wonder if those controller prototypes are their final design, or if they'll go with a Knuckles variety once they start shipping these.
Is there any other info than what's on their PR page? That certainly seems to claim it's really 200.Durante said:
In any case, thinking about this the other way, hw that pushes the FOV envelope is probably a good way to get software support off its ass and start supporting multi-view/res rendering as standard.
That's the (claimed) complete HMD FoV.
It would only be the per-eye rendering FoV if the HMD had 100% stereo overlap between the two eyes -- with a more realistic overlap percentage I can't really see it as anything more than 120° per eye or so. Which is still hardly ideal for rectilinear projection, but possible. And simultaneous multi-projection can mostly fix the performance issue.
See my previous posts in this thread. On my 1080 (non-ti) I generally render >= 10 megapixels for VR games. This HMD has 16 MP native resolution, and you don't need to fully utilize it to see significant benefits.
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They show off an eye tracking module in their accessories video. But considering they show stuff as dubious as a scent module, I'm not sure what in it is real or proof of concept.
classy primax....
Lilalaunebaer
Member
I, I might actually be interested.
Wanted to wait for Vive2 or Rift 2. But if this comes out before that (not live kickstarter says february 2018, don´t know if it would stay that way.) i might actually get it. Obviously price would matter as well lol. The biggest reason for passing on the current VR-headset has been the resolution of the displays.
Waiting for it to go live. Do we have any idea when that might be?
Wanted to wait for Vive2 or Rift 2. But if this comes out before that (not live kickstarter says february 2018, don´t know if it would stay that way.) i might actually get it. Obviously price would matter as well lol. The biggest reason for passing on the current VR-headset has been the resolution of the displays.
Waiting for it to go live. Do we have any idea when that might be?
I've posted about this before in the thread:
If some small company tried to sel me a HMD based on the premise of foveated rendering I'd actually be suspicious of its real-world use.
It'll probably be featured in one of their projections episodes. Should be a new episde in a day or two, not sure if it's enough time for them to write and edit the episode though.
Pimax started a Q&A yesterday, and posted the FAQ today with this tidbit:
So it looks like it's not capable of running native 4K per eye, even if you could power it.
So a native 4K per eye will involve either waiting until the revised unit is available (estimated in May 2018), for an extra cost, or you might be able to DIY it by buying the new PCB and disassembling your standard upscaled 8K, should they ever actually offer that option.
So it looks like it's not capable of running native 4K per eye, even if you could power it.
So a native 4K per eye will involve either waiting until the revised unit is available (estimated in May 2018), for an extra cost, or you might be able to DIY it by buying the new PCB and disassembling your standard upscaled 8K, should they ever actually offer that option.
So the screens are still 4k, but they take a 1440p signal and upscale it because the display port adapter simply doesn't have enough bandwidth to drive a native signal? That makes sense. I was wondering how they were going to make it actually run 2x 4k with DP without some kind of compression, but just upscaling works. At least the screen door effect would be significantly diminished.
I'm excited by this. However Ive been burned on VR kickstarters before (I backed the omni and then they were unable to ship it, having not thought it would be expensive to ship a colossal treadmill internationally)
Dunno if to support or let this one filter down to the next consumer level...
Dunno if to support or let this one filter down to the next consumer level...
metareferential
Member
It really boils down to price. If it's reasonable, I might bite and wait for the true 8K version (provided they offer it right away, even if it means waiting longer).
DouglasteR
Member
Im just F5ing here, waiting !
Will get the "Vive path" edition and then, in the future, upgrade to the 8k X.
Will get the "Vive path" edition and then, in the future, upgrade to the 8k X.
It seems like they're set to make this thing regardless of the Kickstarter, so I don't see much value in backing unless there is some huge early bird discount offered.
Better to wait for reviews to see if they have fixed the issues from the prototype and to see what other VR headsets are shown at CES in January.
Better to wait for reviews to see if they have fixed the issues from the prototype and to see what other VR headsets are shown at CES in January.
Prices seem to have just gone up.
5k headset only is 399, 349 early bird.
8k headset only is 499, 449 early bird.
edit: and as of 1PM EST, it is up. Jumped in for 8k early bird, seems like an amazing value for someone with the Vive accessories already. When the Vive Grip controllers come out, I'll basically have 2 full working systems!
5k headset only is 399, 349 early bird.
8k headset only is 499, 449 early bird.
edit: and as of 1PM EST, it is up. Jumped in for 8k early bird, seems like an amazing value for someone with the Vive accessories already. When the Vive Grip controllers come out, I'll basically have 2 full working systems!
DouglasteR
Member
Im all in.
Also, i believe this will give all the answers needed:
Eww, not the same angles, but it should be something amidst this.
DouglasteR
Member
RadioactiveLobster
Member
Hmm, I don't have any of the lighthouses or controllers so I'd have to go in at $649/$699 for the 5k one...
I think I'll pass for now.
I think I'll pass for now.
metareferential
Member
Too bad I missed the early bird tiers, more than 600 for a 8k set is too much for something that is yet unproven.
If I read correctly, the 8K headset will only support 4K effective resolution and upscales to the panel resolution. You need to pay extra for the "8K X" that is due in May to get a unit capable of actual 8K with two DP cables (and minimum 1080ti).
The Tested impressions make this seem like a Vive/Rift 1.5 in many ways. Certainly an upgrade in a few aspects, but it's not a huge jump. The game rendering not accounting for the increased FoV sounded kinda shitty. Norm likened it to 4:3 content stretched to display on 16:9, but not quite as bad. It looks 1:1 or close to it near the center and stretches more close to the edges.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Highlights:
- Wider FoV is the biggest difference. Hard to go back.
- BUT, it's achieved on games not made native for Pimax by distorting the edges of the screen outwards (the center of your vision isn't distorted). This could cause disconnect if you were aiming at something by just looking in your periphery. That said, they really didn't have any issue with it while playing unless they went out of their way to try since you tend to focus on the center of your vision anyway.
- Resolution was better specifically for virtual desktop type stuff or video watching but they talk surprisingly little about it. They didn't notice much of an improvement from current gen on the 5k prototype.
- No "smearing"
- "Diminished" god rays compared to Rift or Vive.
- Screen door still present though "different" from the other headsets. Closer to Vive than Rift.
- Headset was comfortable and light.
- Lenses could use improvement because of distortion on the outer edges (including inner). Jeremey didn't notice this but did have issues with IPD which seemed to be software based.
- In the demo they were only getting 4k signal upscaled since they were running off a laptop. They're very curious to see how much of a better experience it would be on a beefy PC (or if it would be at all).
Norm says it's hard to recommend if the lens issues aren't fixed. Jeremy didn't notice any of that though so he thinks it's a tempting proposition if you're just getting the headset and using Vive controllers.
GuitarAtomik
Member
I think there's some confusion about this. In the Reddit thread this is mentioned a bit:
DungeonSurvivalDev said:
Another comment says this in reply:
kontis said:
Can't really speak to any of that myself or how solid that info is.
Aah, it being the lenses creating the distortion makes sense.
The second thing I don't think should be a problem since it's only the combined FOV that is 200 deg, not each individual eye.
It's probably only ~120° per viewport (eye) so it shouldn't be the rendering pipeline causing an issue.
Edit: Heh, beaten.
Of course this goes live while I have one of my very rare social events 
I guess I'll keep an eye out for an early bird tier opening up.
I guess I'll keep an eye out for an early bird tier opening up.
Another point in the interview is that they confirmed that the full bundle (with their own base stations and controllers) will be SteamVR tracking 2.0.
Of course this goes live while I have one of my very rare social events
I guess I'll keep an eye out for an early bird tier opening up.
Another point in the interview is that they confirmed that the full bundle (with their own base stations and controllers) will be SteamVR tracking 2.0.
The 8K Vive early bird tier seems to be all gone though.
Iced_Eagle
Member
This is confusing. There are three versions on the page from what I can tell.
- 5k version -- self-explanatory. Accepts 5k and outputs 5k.
- 8k version -- less clear. Outputs 8k definitely, but potentially only takes 5k input and upscales to 8k?
- 8k X version -- Not even mentioned on their main campaign page. However, they say in the FAQ that this will have different "chips" and an additional DisplayPort cable to accommodate the additional bandwidth. Thus, I can only conclude that this is the only version which will accept 8k input and output 8k?
So, if you want a TRUE 8k image, and have a 1080Ti, or planning to upgrade in 2018, then you need the 8k X?
It's clearly not that confusing since you got it exactly right
It was also discussed a bit earlier in this thread.
(Except that none of them is really "8k" or "5k", we should really be talking about 2560x1440x2 and 3840x2160x2)
Iced_Eagle
Member
It's clearly not that confusing since you got it exactly right
It was also discussed a bit earlier in this thread.
(Except that none of them is really "8k" or "5k", we should really be talking about 2560x1440x2 and 3840x2160x2)
Well, I'm glad I got it right at least!
Just wish they made it explicit on their actual campaign page and not as a point within their FAQ at the very bottom.Managed to get the 8k X full version (early bird!) pledged. Though, tbh I'm still on the fence as to whether I'm going to keep it. Will keep an eye on the campaign as it unfolds.