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[Thaedolus]

Does anyone really think that this is going to hurt the potential income for Sony that much? I mean the Wii has been wide open for years and Nintendo's still cleaning up. I'm sure piracy will have some effect, and honestly I think developers might suffer because of this, but I think believing this will bump up PS4 or sink Sony's ship is a bit overboard.

 

[H_Prestige]

can someone "officially" port dudebro 2 to the ps3 once it's finished?

Once this final key is released, the ps3 will be no different than a pc. You can run whatever you want on it.

 

[TheExecutive]

Does anyone really think that this is going to hurt the potential income for Sony that much? I mean the Wii has been wide open for years and Nintendo's still cleaning up. I'm sure piracy will have some effect, and honestly I think developers might suffer because of this, but I think believing this will bump up PS4 or sink Sony's ship is a bit overboard.

Nah its not the piracy it's sony's inability to protect the PSN that might push them overboard but yeah I dont know too much about this stuff just read a couple of "articles".

 

[Mr_Brit]

Does anyone really think that this is going to hurt the potential income for Sony that much? I mean the Wii has been wide open for years and Nintendo's still cleaning up. I'm sure piracy will have some effect, and honestly I think developers might suffer because of this, but I think believing this will bump up PS4 or sink Sony's ship is a bit overboard.

That's the thing. No other platform is completely open like the PS3 is, the PSP,Wii and 360 still aren't fully cracked. Once the npdrm keys are released you can literally do anything with the system and there isn't anything that Sony can do about it. This includes piracy which should be trivial to do compared to those other 3 systems now. It should be as easy as downloading a file, putting it on a USB drive and running it on your PS3. That kind of convenience will attract a lot of people.

 

[MMaRsu]

So anyone can just decrypt the keys now though right? Or is it just those guys working on it.

 

[Shaneus]

I've just jumped in here this morning... has something happened over the last 24 hours that I missed? Previous keys were fake? System is more unlocked than before?

I'm normally pretty up-to-date but one family dinner and I feel like I'm a decade behind on the news

 

[Thaedolus]

That's the thing. No other platform is completely open like the PS3 is, the PSP,Wii and 360 still aren't fully cracked. Once the npdrm keys are released you can literally do anything with the system and there isn't anything that Sony can do about it.

Are you talking the ease of just downloading a file without jumping through hoops to crack it? I mean, I think I can do just about anything I please on my Wii...

 

[Slightly Live]

I've just jumped in here this morning... has something happened over the last 24 hours that I missed? Previous keys were fake? System is more unlocked than before?

I'm normally pretty up-to-date but one family dinner and I feel like I'm a decade behind on the news

Lv1+2 have been cracked - tools have been released to allow folks to bypass these barriers but legal issues have stopped the author from compiling or releasing anything specific. But instructions are there and assistance tools. People are now experimenting to see if it's true and to see how widespread the claim is. There's been lots of backwards and forwards on Lv1+2 access so folks are cautious but it looks like it's finally been done.

DPDRM has been cracked but the keys have not been released. Following this, some tool released fake NPDRM keys freaking people out.

 

[TabletopTictacs]

Is there a sum-up online anywhere of everything that's happened so far and where it leaves me as an end-user? Preferably written as simply as possible

 

[Rich!]

it hasn't been released?

but I thought everything was out in the open...

It was fake. heh.

 

[Mr_Brit]

Are you talking the ease of just downloading a file without jumping through hoops to crack it? I mean, I think I can do just about anything I please on my Wii...

It's still not cracked open like the PS3 is and it will never be as easy to pirate on a Wii as it potentially can be on the PS3. That's got to be what Sony is fearing, downloading a single file off the internet that will instantly allow you to play games from a HDD will open up piracy to a huge amount of people who would otherwise never think if doing it.

 

[eso76]

All of the developers who lose money because of this totally deserve to because they signed up to make games for fucking lame Sony. It's going to be badass to have all my PSN games running off my HDD.

< haters gonna hate !

well, you know what would be badass ? burning dozens on a bluray and launching from there.

speaking of bc, i think they can find all kinds of workarounds next gen, but even if they had to cut it I don't think i'll be missing it.
the ps3 has just been granted the potential to become the greatest thing ever thanks to homebrew, i think it will stay with me for a long time.

 

[Slightly Live]

I've just jumped in here this morning... has something happened over the last 24 hours that I missed? Previous keys were fake? System is more unlocked than before?

I'm normally pretty up-to-date but one family dinner and I feel like I'm a decade behind on the news

Lv1+2 have been cracked - tools have been released to allow folks to bypass these barriers but legal issues have stopped the author from compiling or releasing anything specific. But instructions are there and assistance tools. People are now experimenting to see if it's true and to see how widespread the claim is. There's been lots of backwards and forwards on Lv1+2 access so folks are cautious but it looks like it's finally been done.

NPRDM has been cracked but the keys have not been released. Following this, some tool released fake NPRDM keys freaking people out.

Is there a sum-up online anywhere of everything that's happened so far and where it leaves me as an end-user? Preferably written as simply as possible

TLDR

Final barriers to backups and homebrew have been broken. Folks are checking over to make sure things are legit. Some people are spreading false information to try to spoil things.

 

[Eiji]

Contemplating on building either a HTPC or waiting for native standalone MKV support on PS3 and then getting a 2nd one for the living room.

Hmm...think I'll wait a month or two.

 

[Shaneus]

What's DPDRM? I'm sure I know what the DRM bit stands for, but what's DP?

 

[Rich!]

What's DPDRM? I'm sure I know what the DRM bit stands for, but what's DP?

 

[Eiji]

What's DPDRM? I'm sure I know what the DRM bit stands for, but what's DP?

It's DRM but twice as bad

 

[KeioSquad2]

Hey squarepusher2, i just checked psx scene so i know your listening. thanks. the issues with kirby 3 are all forground transparency starting in level 1-3 and going through out the whole game. transparent mountains and water are all reduced to a vertical scanline effect that looks horrible. i would post pics but im stuck using my ps3 right now until i get my new pc. again thanks for listening.

 

[angelfly]

Contemplating on building either a HTPC or waiting for native standalone MKV support on PS3 and then getting a 2nd one for the living room.

Hmm...think I'll wait a month or two.

I picked up a Zotac ID11 pretty cheap a few months ago and it makes a perfect (small, squiet, very little power consumption) XBMC box. I would have been content with my PS3/mediatomb combo but lack of MKV killed it.

 

[Slightly Live]

What's DPDRM? I'm sure I know what the DRM bit stands for, but what's DP?

I think I meant NPRDM. Hah, I might have mixed the term up with something else! =)

 

[BobTheFork]

< haters gonna hate !

well, you know what would be badass ? burning dozens on a bluray and launching from there.

speaking of bc, i think they can find all kinds of workarounds next gen, but even if they had to cut it I don't think i'll be missing it.
the ps3 has just been granted the potential to become the greatest thing ever thanks to homebrew, i think it will stay with me for a long time.

That would be so weird honestly. After years of people demanding they be able to put their collections on the harddrive for easy access and faster loading, putting all the DD games back on a disc.

 

[alr1ght]

Does anyone really think that this is going to hurt the potential income for Sony that much? I mean the Wii has been wide open for years and Nintendo's still cleaning up. I'm sure piracy will have some effect, and honestly I think developers might suffer because of this, but I think believing this will bump up PS4 or sink Sony's ship is a bit overboard.

Completely different audiences. The 18-24 market is a hell of a lot more likely to pirate than Nintendo's. The potential ease of use of this is bad news for Sony + devs. Granted, so long into PS3's life, it won't be devastating, but had this occurred 3 years ago, they would be completely fucked.

 

[H_Prestige]

< haters gonna hate !

well, you know what would be badass ? burning dozens on a bluray and launching from there.

speaking of bc, i think they can find all kinds of workarounds next gen, but even if they had to cut it I don't think i'll be missing it.
the ps3 has just been granted the potential to become the greatest thing ever thanks to homebrew, i think it will stay with me for a long time.

Exactly. I have no interest in any successor to the ps3 now, unless it can be broken open in the same way.

 

[test_account]

Yeah, I mean the hack would have to be very easy to do and become widespread. I haven't been following this news all that much but what if anything can sony do to protect the integrity of their system including DLC, trophies, games etc..?

Dambrosi already answered this, but i have a question regarding if Sony can do anything

If Sony removes firmware updates through USB sticks in the next firmware update, and possibly some improved LV1 and LV2 security, and i install this firmware, how am i going to get custom firmware on to my PS3 then? I assume that i need custom firmware regardless, or else i cant install .pkg files, except the once that i download from PSN.

 

[eso76]

That would be so weird honestly. After years of people demanding they be able to put their collections on the harddrive for easy access and faster loading, putting all the DD games back on a disc.

sure.
but it would be different !

how this will affect ps4 is going to be interesting. Will people be reluctant to upgrade to a much more limited system ? or will sony make the system much more open to develop for right from the start, encouraging indie productions and homebrews ? will the majority of people actually care (oh, casuals are the first to know when someone finds a way to run pirated games).
I think i can predict huge sales for ps3 and a very slow start for ps4 at this point.

 

[cyberheater]

If Sony removes firmware updates through USB sticks in the next firmware update...

I really can't see Sony doing that. There must be millions of PS3's out there not connected to the Internet.

 

[eso76]

Dambrosi already answered this, but i have a question regarding if Sony can do anything

If Sony removes firmware updates through USB sticks in the next firmware update, and possibly some improved LV1 and LV2 security, and i install this firmware, how am i going to get custom firmware on to my PS3 then? I assume that i need this regardless, or else i cant install .pkg files, except the once that i download from PSN.

what would people whose ps3 is not connected to internet do ?
wait for upgrades on games' discs maybe. Which means the console must still be able to install new firmware from discs.

 

[Dwayne]

I really can't see Sony doing that. There must be millions of PS3's out there not connected to the Internet.

And they need to keep up to date with the latest firmware why?

 

[cyberheater]

Folks going on about PS4. I don't for one second think that it will have any backward capability. Sony have demonstrated that they really don't care about BC and the release of the private keys will only enforce that position.

 

[Shaneus]

I think I meant NPRDM. Hah, I might have mixed the term up with something else! =)

Ahaha. (that sounds sarcastic but it's genuine, I assure you!)
Anyway, what's NPRDM stand for? From what I can gather, it's something to do with how SELFs are encrypted (after a quick net search) but can't be sure.

After this, I should be up to speed... I think :lol

 

[StuBurns]

how this will affect ps4 is going to be interesting. Will people be reluctant to upgrade to a much more limited system ? or will sony make the system much more open to develop for right from the start, encouraging indie productions and homebrews ? will the majority of people actually care (oh, casuals are the first to know when someone finds a way to run pirated games).
I think i can predict huge sales for ps3 and a very slow start for ps4 at this point.

I think you're grossly overestimating how many people will use this for anything other than piracy. This isn't some creative utopia. PS3 won't be homebrew graceland for millions or anything. I don't see how it'll affect people's adoption of PS4 at all, other than maybe holding off so they can pirate the cross generational titles for the first year or so.

 

[test_account]

I really can't see Sony doing that. There must be millions of PS3's out there not connected to the Internet.

I dont think that it should be a big problem because firmware updates arent really required for the PS3 to work. And if people dont have their PS3 connected to the internet and a game requires a newer firmware update, then this firmware version is on the game disc.

The only issue that i can see, is if some feature (something in the line of Netflix just to take one example) is added to the PS3 through a firmware update, and people shouldnt be "forced" to buy a new game that has the latest PS3 firmware on the disc to be able to update their PS3 firmware. But i dont think that will be a big issue for people in general.

But lets say that Sony does this, is there any way to get passed this?

EDIT: I am pretty sure that it will be possible for people to modify the firmware updates to accept firmware updates through USB sticks. But if i install the upcoming PS3 firmware and it is no longer possible to install firmware through USB sticks, is there any way that i can get custom firmware on my PS3 then?

what would people whose ps3 is not connected to internet do ?
wait for upgrades on games' discs maybe. Which means the console must still be able to install new firmware from discs.

True, but is it possible to install custom firmware from a disc yet?

 

[spwolf]

sure.
but it would be different !

how this will affect ps4 is going to be interesting. Will people be reluctant to upgrade to a much more limited system ? or will sony make the system much more open to develop for right from the start, encouraging indie productions and homebrews ? will the majority of people actually care (oh, casuals are the first to know when someone finds a way to run pirated games).
I think i can predict huge sales for ps3 and a very slow start for ps4 at this point.

as if this is first time someone cracked an console... remember ps2? i bought mine at official sony distributor in eastern europe in 2004, and it came with a chip installed.

as to the "much more open to develop", well thats why pc gaming has been so big, right, it is soo open, anyone can create games for it.

game consoles will never be open as PC because their hardware manufacturers lose millions and sometimes billions in order to subsidize hardware costs so they can sell software. it is not some evil conspiracy, it is business model.

imagine if they offered PS3 now for $800, but "open", how many people would chose it over subsidized but "closed" $300 model? not many, thats for sure.

 

[cyberheater]

And they need to keep up to date with the latest firmware why?

Because there are new features that folks might want to use but their console isn't connected to the net. Besides, can you imagine the backlash.

 

[Brofist]

And they need to keep up to date with the latest firmware why?

Some software requires the latest fw, newest features, etc..

 

[Dambrosi]

Because there are new features that folks might want to use but their console isn't connected to the net. Besides, can you imagine the backlash.

Oh yeah, that's right. First OtheroS, then USB installs? IT ONLY DOES NOTHING

 

[Dwayne]

Some software requires the latest fw, newest features, etc..

Games that require the latest firmware come with the latest firmware. Most of the new features recently have required separate downloading anyway, and really who the hell doesn't have their console connected to the internet (and who cares).

 

[eso76]

I think you're grossly overestimating how many people will use this for anything other than piracy. This isn't some creative utopia. PS3 won't be homebrew graceland for millions or anything. I don't see how it'll affect people's adoption of PS4 at all, other than maybe holding off so they can pirate the cross generational titles for the first year or so.

well, i was mostly referring to piracy, but it really depends on what the community comes up with imho, and how easy it will be for people to find homebrew. if people start spreading the word that you can find apps to do this and that on ps3, it will also reach casuals eventually. Heck, i swear this is why everyone and their mom owns an iPhone now. At least a part of them is going to be disappointed the ps4 can't do all the useless stuff the ps3 did. Not millions maybe, but i wouldn't overlook that.
And piracy ? when casuals find themselves attracted to a new console their first question usually is "how much are games though, and can they be copied ? Give them a couple years of free games and wild piracy and being told they have to pay 60/70$ for a new ps4 game is going to make them run away.

as if this is first time someone cracked an console... remember ps2? i bought mine at official sony distributor in eastern europe in 2004, and it came with a chip installed.

as to the "much more open to develop", well thats why pc gaming has been so big, right, it is soo open, anyone can create games for it.

gaming on pc might not sound "big" for a thousand reasons, but i still think it's by far the largest gaming platform, for number of players and number of games available.
Plus, i wasn't just referring to games.

game consoles will never be open as PC because their hardware manufacturers lose millions and sometimes billions in order to subsidize hardware costs so they can sell software. it is not some evil conspiracy, it is business model.

it's a business model that could be reconsidered in part. With AAA titles becoming impossibly expensive to develop, indie productions are bound to become more and more important. It's happening already

 

[test_account]

Because there are new features that folks might want to use but their console isn't connected to the net. Besides, can you imagine the backlash.

True, there might be some backlash indeed, but i dont think that it will be that big to be honest, at least nothing similar to what we saw with the removal of the OtherOS from the PS3 Phats. Because it will still be possible to update the firmware through discs and internet, so tha feature itself wont really dissapear comletely. And people who have been updating the PS3 firmware through USB sticks so far must have access to internet somehow since they must be able to download the PS3 firmware. If there will be a big backlash, then i guess it will most likely be a matter of principal, not that the actual cause affects people that much.

Oh yeah, that's right. First OtheroS, then USB installs? IT ONLY DOES NOTHING

It wont really be exactly the same senario though, since when OtherOS was removed, then that feature was removed for good. Disabling firmware updates through a USB Stick would still allow firmware updates, just that you have to do it other ways. I am not sure that "updating PS3 firmware through a USB stick" is an advertised feature, but if it is, then they can in best case remove it from newly produced PS3 without any problem, like they did with OtherOS on the PS3 Slim. Then it wont be an advertised feature anymore on the newly produced consoles

EDIT: I fixed a typo.

 

[Valkyr Junkie]

Because there are new features that folks might want to use but their console isn't connected to the net. Besides, can you imagine the backlash.

So they'll get their firmware on disk like everyone else that isn't net connected.

 

[mugurumakensei]

Dambrosi already answered this, but i have a question regarding if Sony can do anything

If Sony removes firmware updates through USB sticks in the next firmware update, and possibly some improved LV1 and LV2 security, and i install this firmware, how am i going to get custom firmware on to my PS3 then?

Actually, Sony could do one better and include a secondary signature in firmware updates from now on as the only hole they really need to plug is installing custom firmware. Nothing else can launch unless someone has custom firmware.

This would allow people to continue using usb for updating firmware. If Sony creates a proper signing algorithm to create the secondary signature, no one will be able to find the key used for the secondary signature. Any future revisions of the ps3 will ship with a firmware that checks for the secondary signature. Anyone who has custom firmware and updates their ps3 will no longer be able to install custom firmware and properly have unauthorized software removed. Anyone who has yet to install custom firmware and updates will not be able to install custom firmware ever.

Note: This method would effectively disable custom firmware from being installed using any method. The smart ones will still wait for custom firmware to have the features of newer firmwares patched in, but the amount of people who will follow the scene to such an extent as to avoid any official updates is small.

 

[Slightly Live]

Backup compatible CFW incoming?

It appears over at spanish site EOL, Waninkoko is releasing a full CFW, with multiman supposedly working.

 

[Jocchan]

Waninkoko? How surprising.

 

[Dambrosi]

Games that require the latest firmware come with the latest firmware. Most of the new features recently have required separate downloading anyway, and really who the hell doesn't have their console connected to the internet (and who cares).

And if there's a fatal bug in the on-disc update that semi-bricks certain PS3s, and Sony only finds out when people start complaining on the Internet - what then? Do they do what Nintendo did, and repair them all for no charge, all because there's no way to update them with a fixed firmware through the network (since their PS3's not online) or through their secondary option, the USB Installation function, which was taken away in a previous security update? "Not likely", you say? It happened to Nintendo just last year, why don't you go ask them?

USB Installs are there just as much for Sony mechanics' benefit as the user's. It's unlikely at this point that that capability will be removed.

Waninkoko? How surprising.

Well, at least we know from the Wii scene that his stuff can be trusted to work and not to brick your machine. I'd feel better about it if it were someone like Team Twiizers though.

 

[Slightly Live]

It's a CFW, not based on Flukes tools, is made with its own which has developed Waninkoko and soon hope to publish it even in their Twitter as our site is fucked and although it would be a pleasure (and right) the publish it, we do not wait all those people that is so hard waiting for this great job.

Congratulations to Waninkoko, and if the men in black come for us to support you all would not all bad.

I love Google Spanish-English translations.

 

[BoboBrazil]

Backup compatible CFW incoming?

great news

 

[test_account]

Actually, Sony could do one better and include a secondary signature in firmware updates from now on as the only hole they really need to plug is installing custom firmware. Nothing else can launch unless someone has custom firmware.

This would allow people to continue using usb for updating firmware. If Sony creates a proper signing algorithm to create the secondary signature, no one will be able to find the key used for the secondary signature. Any future revisions of the ps3 will ship with a firmware that checks for the secondary signature. Anyone who has custom firmware and updates their ps3 will no longer be able to install custom firmware and properly have unauthorized software removed. Anyone who has yet to install custom firmware and updates will not be able to install custom firmware ever.

Note: This method would effectively disable custom firmware from being installed using any method. The smart ones will still wait for custom firmware to have the features of newer firmwares patched in, but the amount of people who will follow the scene to such an extent as to avoid any official updates is small.

If such a method is possible, then that would be better than to remove the possibility to install PS3 firmware using a USB stick indeed

 

[xtop]

Backup compatible CFW incoming?

looks like he's releasing it at 12pm tomorrow. very cool

 

[H_Prestige]

With these backup managers, will we still need a disc inside the drive?

 

[StuBurns]

well, i was mostly referring to piracy, but it really depends on what the community comes up with imho, and how easy it will be for people to find homebrew. if people start spreading the word that you can find apps to do this and that on ps3, it will also reach casuals eventually. Heck, i swear this is why everyone and their mom owns an iPhone now. At least a part of them is going to be disappointed the ps4 can't do all the useless stuff the ps3 did. Not millions maybe, but i wouldn't overlook that.
And piracy ? when casuals find themselves attracted to a new console their first question usually is "how much are games though, and can they be copied ? Give them a couple years of free games and wild piracy and being told they have to pay 60/70$ for a new ps4 game is going to make them run away.

I don't know about the iPhone, the fact it's beautifully design, incredibly simple to use and is an iPod is probably what sold it for the masses.

As for the PS3/4, I think you're right, but ultimately people won't have a choice. The people who pirate games are gamers, they're going to be compelled to play more games. When MW4 is only on the next-gen systems, and the next GTA is coming, and GT6 etc. At the very most, this 'unlocking' can only fuck Sony over till the day people stop supporting the PS3.

I personally don't believe this is going to be a huge issue. But even if it is, it's for the short term, it's 2011, the PS4 is approaching. Had this happened the first year of the console, PS3 would be dead, PS4 probably would have launched with Move by now. But at this point, I don't think it's going to change Sony's plans significantly.

I'm interested to see what Sony does about PSN access, I think if they can't tell if the game is pirated, they should ban the console from PSN gaming, but leave them access to the store, because it's only going to hurt sales if they stop people being able to legally buy games from the store.

I think disc games are probably okay for the most part. LBP2 for example, I don't know how big it is, but I'm sure it's big enough that most people are not going to want to download it. You can rent games for dirt cheap, cheaper than limitless bandwidth in a lot of places I imagine, and more importantly, it's perfectly legal.

I think this would have been hugely damaging at the start of the generation, or any prior generations, but with the end looming, and the ever growing focus on social network integration and popularity of competitive multiplayer, I think this generation will be the last that is really affected by piracy. This is bad for Sony, but far from deadly.

The only thing I'd be really concerned about is PS3 platform support dropping out, but I don't think people are going to be that rash unless piracy blows up very quickly and becomes very wide spread.