Okay sure, let the dumb discussion of the games (as opposed to serious discussion about it) determine how you feel about the games rather than their content.
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Please explain the Persona series to a n00b
- Thread starter FiveMinuteHero
- Start date
Okay sure, let the dumb discussion of the games (as opposed to serious discussion about it) determine how you feel about the games rather than their content.
Mediocre gameplay? Completely disagree with that. I am a turn based RPG fan and as far as the actual battles go it's one of the better turn based systems out there.
How often do serious discussions of the Persona series occur though? Wasn't one of the first P5 threads locked because the entire Persona population delved into "wife" talk? I mean, the dumb discussion overpowers anything that's ever serious about the games.
Also, not everyone has to love Persona, a scary concept on GAF, I know.
Mowki Kowski
Member
I dunno, I found that once you were at a level you could comfortably fight enemies, the game becomes a slog. It isn't challenging or interesting enough to get through at that point. With P4 Golden, I only really liked fighting those golden hand things.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
I think the Persona games get progressively worse as you get further and further into the game...the beginning is always a pretty long, but hooking, tutorial that gets you immersed in the world, and the middle is solid as you begin to meet different people and learn the ins-and-outs of combat and fusion...
Eventually, though, it pretty much bottoms out as your Persona are more or less powerful enough to make everything a breeze, so you don't need to carefully fuse as much anymore (in Persona 4, for example, you can easily get Black Frost and use him pretty much to mow down through the second half of the game), and you've gotten so high in Social Links, there's not a lot left to do, so most of the end game is just skipping through each day to get to the next story-scenes.
I hope 5 fixes the end-game. Persona 4 got dull near the end, and honestly I had no urge to even finish it after the main plot was resolved and see to the end of the bonus chapter.
Eventually, though, it pretty much bottoms out as your Persona are more or less powerful enough to make everything a breeze, so you don't need to carefully fuse as much anymore (in Persona 4, for example, you can easily get Black Frost and use him pretty much to mow down through the second half of the game), and you've gotten so high in Social Links, there's not a lot left to do, so most of the end game is just skipping through each day to get to the next story-scenes.
I hope 5 fixes the end-game. Persona 4 got dull near the end, and honestly I had no urge to even finish it after the main plot was resolved and see to the end of the bonus chapter.
TomcatTheLion
Member
You write-off an entire series because of a silly discussion others (that you are not mandated have to participate in) have?
lol
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Nah, I love turn-based as well but the Persona games are average at best. The majority of battles don't end up becoming very interesting. Especially when you get really good personas fused.
People write off games because of other reasons that are just as silly. Let's not kid around that the simulation aspect of Persona is an essential identity to the games.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
As long as you realize it's a bias, there's nothing wrong with writing off a series because you find its fans distasteful, imo. I've played both P3 and P4 and enjoyed them relatively well enough, but I can understand that some people may be turned off by their 'atmosphere'.
I'm sure the people aghast by the idea that someone might stay away from Persona due to its fans probably have a series that they avoid for similar reasons.
I'm sure the people aghast by the idea that someone might stay away from Persona due to its fans probably have a series that they avoid for similar reasons.
This reads: "If you overlevel then things become too easy"
Which is true of pretty much every RPG.
Thanks for understanding. Maybe one day I'll expand my JRPG tastes, but it'll be a while before I can accept that.
itzknickknac
Member
TV's role is only on P4, I think(?). It seems each game has a different way to access this other dimension. For P3, there's a "Dark Hour" which is a hidden hour which certain people (such as the main character and party) that can see and investigate Tartarus.
I just tried so hard to type a good response on the Persona world. But cannot give you a simple, basic, concise answer. So check this wiki
Great source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shin_Megami_Tensei:_Persona#Common_elements
King Tubby
Member
I like the combat. Really I find the whole fusing and collecting Persona aspect to be really fun, as well as how it integrates with social links. It really does feel a lot like Pokemon in that regard.
The games just drip with style and atmosphere, the world just draws you in, and the writing gives you an emotional connection to the characters. All these disparate elements form a cohesive whole that is greater than the sum of its parts. I don't think you will find any other series that is quite like it.
And as clunky as the writing can be in some regards, there are very few games out there that are quite as mature (in terms of having adult themes and characters, not BLOOD AND TITS) as Persona 3 and Persona 4. Playing them for the first time was a revelation, especially as most JRPGs and especially anime-styled JRPGs go.
And yes, the waifu stuff is completely overblown by the fanbase. The games do not really make a big deal out of it at all and you can complete each one without any romantic involvement with any character.
The games just drip with style and atmosphere, the world just draws you in, and the writing gives you an emotional connection to the characters. All these disparate elements form a cohesive whole that is greater than the sum of its parts. I don't think you will find any other series that is quite like it.
And as clunky as the writing can be in some regards, there are very few games out there that are quite as mature (in terms of having adult themes and characters, not BLOOD AND TITS) as Persona 3 and Persona 4. Playing them for the first time was a revelation, especially as most JRPGs and especially anime-styled JRPGs go.
And yes, the waifu stuff is completely overblown by the fanbase. The games do not really make a big deal out of it at all and you can complete each one without any romantic involvement with any character.
That Doesn't Make Sense.gif
Wouldn't wind HELP fire and darkness!? You'd think he'd be weak to Hama.
Outside of light visual novels, Sakura Taisen has very little in common with the other two.
Don't play games because of the fanbase, dudes.
Yes, there is.
"I'm not going to play this game I may/may not enjoy because the fans that I don't have to even interact with are creepy/insane/whatever you want to call them here."
Do you realize how stupid that sounds?
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
Perhaps, but it's ultimately a harmless bias to have that doesn't hurt anyone.
A lot of people avoid mainstream FPS games in part because they're often associated with "dudebros". It might be stupid, unfair,etc., but an individual should be allowed to have that belief if they want. There's plenty of series I've avoided because their overall atmosphere, and the fans, put me off, and I don't feel guilty for admitting that.
As long as you don't actively go into threads dedicated to those games and purposefully try to start something, I don't see the issue with admitting you have a bias against a game because the way people treat it puts you off.
A lot of people avoid mainstream FPS games in part because they're often associated with "dudebros". It might be stupid, unfair,etc., but an individual should be allowed to have that belief if they want. There's plenty of series I've avoided because their overall atmosphere, and the fans, put me off, and I don't feel guilty for admitting that.
As long as you don't actively go into threads dedicated to those games and purposefully try to start something, I don't see the issue with admitting you have a bias against a game because the way people treat it puts you off.
You should watch the Persona 5 trailer.
TomcatTheLion
Member
So I've noticed from GAF alone and I'll never be able to understand them.
I did, but nothing indicated to me the removal of random corridors.
I mentioned that the life-sim stuff was interesting but beyond that I couldn't say much - I haven't actually played the game. I've seen my brother play tons of dungeons and the dungeon-crawling looks extremely unappealing.
Given the sneaking shit (with the on-screen enemies), the platforming, and the fact that they plan a heist with a clearly defined blueprinted map, i would say they are probably mostly ditching the random dungeons.
God, if only it was High School Sim with WRPG, instead of JRPG. I would be all over that.
you made me watch the trailer
what is that sneaking shit? :/ I don't mind the platforming bits tho
I've never made a GAF thread in my life
oooooh man I hope that sneaking wall crap isn't a huge part of P5. what am I saying. it probably is since the game looks like it's hand on deck with stealing and stuff. not gonna write it off completely. still excited for the game and will wait for more news and details.
edit: oh I see the hate stealth thread. ahahah I won't post there. this is the last time I'm gonna complain about these potential stealth sections in P5.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Too early to tell. Those sections could be similar to the P3 Full Moon sections (which had specific layouts) for example where maybe they plan for several weeks before doing the big heist, with the majority of the dungeon crawling done in more randomized areas (which doesn't necessarily make platforming impossible as some pre-made rooms or floors can have those elements in a largely randomized dungeon).
flatearthpandas
Member
I hope it's true, but i also got more of a SMTIV vibe than Nocturne with is improved from p3 and 4 but not ideal. We'll see.
The Incarnation
Member
I'll try.
It's basically about an old man who spikes your drink in the school canteen, and you wake up in a place which he calls the velvet room.
From your avatar it doesn't appear you've written off Dragon Age because of the romance crazies, though.
Seriously the dating stuff is a tiny tiny part of the Persona games, just like it is for BioWare games. Most of the social links are simply heartfelt stories about people lost in the shuffle of modern society/culture. You should give it a look.
This actually is a pretty accurate description of the social half of the game.
The other half is a "level up and explore dungeons" JRPG.
It's good.
brandonh83
Banned
I haven't liked any Persona game I've played but hype is a hell of a drug. I generally dig Japanese RPG's but I've given both P3 and P4 a chance (several actually) and the drawn-out exposition in addition to not caring for repeating, randomly-generated dungeon levels turned me off in a big way. Nothing really stood out to me as terrible or anything aside from personal preference and how much exposition there is, but I've had a damned difficult time really trying to enjoy this series.
Perhaps if this one is tighter with better game design it will allow me to get into the series just enough for me to go back and at least finish some of the others.
Perhaps if this one is tighter with better game design it will allow me to get into the series just enough for me to go back and at least finish some of the others.
Kssio_Aug
Member
I will try to explain it in my way, telling what makes me enjoy P4 Golden so much! (And the reason why is the game Im looking forward the most).
1- Deep character development. Almost every single character in P4G is likeable, each in their own way; from playable characters, to non-playable ones. Also, the game trully develops them from start to the end with the Social Link System.
2- One of the best games in replay value, imo. Once you finish the game, you can start again with your stats from the last playthrough, and all your discovered and fused personas for easy access from the start. It makes the 2nd playtrhough easier, but also allows you to fight new bosses, develop new characters, complete every Social Link and see a new ending. Its such an enjoyable experience in your 1st playtrhough, as in your 2nd (and maybe even 3rd or more).
3- Simple turn-based combat mechanics, but really enjoyable. Know the enemy elemental weakness, capture the right personas, fuse them, buff your characters and have fun kicking the bosses asses.
PS.: It seems that every persona game before P4G did not allow you to control every character. That may be frustrating, but its not the case with P4G and neither may be the case with P5 (also, I believe its not the case with Persona 3 Portable).
4- Decent story with enough elements to keep your attention!
Thats basically this.
1- Deep character development. Almost every single character in P4G is likeable, each in their own way; from playable characters, to non-playable ones. Also, the game trully develops them from start to the end with the Social Link System.
2- One of the best games in replay value, imo. Once you finish the game, you can start again with your stats from the last playthrough, and all your discovered and fused personas for easy access from the start. It makes the 2nd playtrhough easier, but also allows you to fight new bosses, develop new characters, complete every Social Link and see a new ending. Its such an enjoyable experience in your 1st playtrhough, as in your 2nd (and maybe even 3rd or more).
3- Simple turn-based combat mechanics, but really enjoyable. Know the enemy elemental weakness, capture the right personas, fuse them, buff your characters and have fun kicking the bosses asses.
PS.: It seems that every persona game before P4G did not allow you to control every character. That may be frustrating, but its not the case with P4G and neither may be the case with P5 (also, I believe its not the case with Persona 3 Portable).
4- Decent story with enough elements to keep your attention!
Thats basically this.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Eh, I wouldn't really say it's deep or the characters develop that well. Especially when noone in P4 really comes close to the development you see from folks like Junpei or Yukari in P3. But it's still moreso than you see in the average JRPG.
And I wouldn't say everyone is likeable, at least not for everyone. There are several people who hate certain characters with a passion, i.e. Teddie or Yosuke. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, as characters can still be memorable due to that (there are people who hate Junpei or Yukari as well after all).
You've gotten a few perspectives but i kinda wanted to offer my perspective on it anyway. I love smt and persona so grain of salt i guess. I'm gonna try to offer a detailed breakdown in case you're into that sort of thing.
SMT games are ones where you fight mythological figures. In many games, enemies are named after mythological figures, but in SMT they are the actual figures themselves. It takes place in a universe where Christian God is dead, and so all these other mythological figures from religions past are trying to fill in the gigantic power gap. At the end of pretty much every game, you fight some religion's primary religious figure. One of em has you fight Yahweh, for example. It's pretty fuckin' sweet.
The series' story has honestly generally uninteresting characters, tending to put its focus more in building very interesting settings and plots. They tend to focus on the ideas of law/chaos, which are regulation vs freedom. Both are presented as undesirable, with neutrality being the true ending in pretty much every instance. Law results in a world where humanity surrenders its power to an overlord who decides everything for them, while in the Chaos route, all but the strongest die at the hands of these newly unleashed gods.
The games' combat is turn-based, and focuses on the fact that every move has an elemental alignment. Every character and enemy reduces damage from some elements, but takes extra damage from others. Usually, if you or the enemy lands an attack with an element the target is weak to, an extra action is added. The combat flow is largely about trying to squeeze in as many actions as possible, and give the enemy as few actions as possible. There is also a strong focus on using status ailments and buffing/debuffing stats, which distinguishes its fights from those of many other RPGs.
In addition to this, the game has a Pokémon-like system by which you can acquire the enemies you fight, adding them to your party. You can then combine these enemies into stronger ones. There's a focus on leveling up one god and getting the best skills it can learn, then passing it on to a higher level god with better stat spreads and resistances. It's effectively a weapon-crafting system, but the crafting is on the scale of characters.
All in all, the SMT games have a lot of elements of traditional JRPGs, but with a rock-paper-scissors element to the combat,
===
At some point, the SMT games' timeline splits and on one branch you get SMT and on another you get Persona. A simplification, but there you go.
In Persona, the focus has changed somewhat. I'll mainly be talking about 3/4 since I did not play 1/2 and am led to understand they differ signifcantly, being a lot more like SMT. In Persona games, you are a high school student. Half of the game is about living a life as an ordinary student, while the other half is about fighting monsters in a dungeon, generally secretly.
Persona generally has less interesting settings than SMT, but more fleshed-out characters. Almost every named NPC will have 11 or more events that flesh out their characters, usually focusing on their fears and the areas they need to grow in maturity in. Few video games focus on a lot of the issues the NPCs go through, and I think it's this aspect that makes the characters particularly interesting. In Persona 4, for example, there is a strong emphasis on a pair of best friends who, although they do sincerely love each other as best friends, often feel jealousy at times of each others' strengths. They end up confronting these feelings and admitting that they do feel them, but try to get over them as best they can. Usually the "good guys" in games are kind of perfect, and those sorts of feelings would make a character evil, but it's very much presented in a way that, yeah, human beings feel bad emotions sometimes, even if they are generally good. There is nuance to the characterizations of the NPCs in a way that is rare for video games and media in general.
In the "normal world" segments, you can choose how to spend your days. These vary from just hanging out with friends, to working part-time jobs, to joining after school clubs, and more. Most of these have ramifications with the dungeon crawling segments, generally making it easier in some regard. If you become good friends with a party member, their combat abilities get enhanced, for example. They'll be able to do stuff like crit against an enemy more frequently, or survive an attack that would kill them with 1 HP. That sort of thing.
There's actually a lot of systems involved in this segment, and although they're pretty intuitive, there is some depth and balance to them. To give one quick example, every character you can hang out with is represented by a Tarot Arcana. Additionally, every god you can fuse is also represented by a Tarot Arcana. By becoming better friends with Chariot, you can enhance the powers of Chariot gods. And if you have a Chariot god in your "party", your relationship grows more quickly with the Chariot character. However, you can only hold between 6 and 12 gods in your party at any given time, and some of the most powerful ones are in Arcana that don't actually quicken this aspect of the game. So there is a balancing act in determining whether you want to make the combat easier with stronger gods or you want to focus on your friendships and take potentially weaker gods to make your relationships grow faster. That's just one system but there's several more that add nuance to the relationship system. It helps to add to the balancing act that the games hinge on, where you also generally want to try to go into dungeons as infrequently as possible, so as to have more time to make friends and junk.
Persona retains a large number of systems from SMT, but generally it reduces the number of elements and makes fights easier to solve via overlevelling than they would be in SMT, where overlevelling is generally not very useful at all. The game is just easier overall. Another difference is that SMT doesn't have a huuuuge amount of straight up dungeon crawling, which Persona's dungeons are entirely just floor after floor after floor.
Also noteworth is that both series have some of the best music in games, and an insane variety, ranging from rock/metal to hip-hop to pop (these are all overworld themes), and the Persona series has some of the best UI design I've ever seen in a game.
Whew. That was really long-winded
SMT games are ones where you fight mythological figures. In many games, enemies are named after mythological figures, but in SMT they are the actual figures themselves. It takes place in a universe where Christian God is dead, and so all these other mythological figures from religions past are trying to fill in the gigantic power gap. At the end of pretty much every game, you fight some religion's primary religious figure. One of em has you fight Yahweh, for example. It's pretty fuckin' sweet.
The series' story has honestly generally uninteresting characters, tending to put its focus more in building very interesting settings and plots. They tend to focus on the ideas of law/chaos, which are regulation vs freedom. Both are presented as undesirable, with neutrality being the true ending in pretty much every instance. Law results in a world where humanity surrenders its power to an overlord who decides everything for them, while in the Chaos route, all but the strongest die at the hands of these newly unleashed gods.
The games' combat is turn-based, and focuses on the fact that every move has an elemental alignment. Every character and enemy reduces damage from some elements, but takes extra damage from others. Usually, if you or the enemy lands an attack with an element the target is weak to, an extra action is added. The combat flow is largely about trying to squeeze in as many actions as possible, and give the enemy as few actions as possible. There is also a strong focus on using status ailments and buffing/debuffing stats, which distinguishes its fights from those of many other RPGs.
In addition to this, the game has a Pokémon-like system by which you can acquire the enemies you fight, adding them to your party. You can then combine these enemies into stronger ones. There's a focus on leveling up one god and getting the best skills it can learn, then passing it on to a higher level god with better stat spreads and resistances. It's effectively a weapon-crafting system, but the crafting is on the scale of characters.
All in all, the SMT games have a lot of elements of traditional JRPGs, but with a rock-paper-scissors element to the combat,
===
At some point, the SMT games' timeline splits and on one branch you get SMT and on another you get Persona. A simplification, but there you go.
In Persona, the focus has changed somewhat. I'll mainly be talking about 3/4 since I did not play 1/2 and am led to understand they differ signifcantly, being a lot more like SMT. In Persona games, you are a high school student. Half of the game is about living a life as an ordinary student, while the other half is about fighting monsters in a dungeon, generally secretly.
Persona generally has less interesting settings than SMT, but more fleshed-out characters. Almost every named NPC will have 11 or more events that flesh out their characters, usually focusing on their fears and the areas they need to grow in maturity in. Few video games focus on a lot of the issues the NPCs go through, and I think it's this aspect that makes the characters particularly interesting. In Persona 4, for example, there is a strong emphasis on a pair of best friends who, although they do sincerely love each other as best friends, often feel jealousy at times of each others' strengths. They end up confronting these feelings and admitting that they do feel them, but try to get over them as best they can. Usually the "good guys" in games are kind of perfect, and those sorts of feelings would make a character evil, but it's very much presented in a way that, yeah, human beings feel bad emotions sometimes, even if they are generally good. There is nuance to the characterizations of the NPCs in a way that is rare for video games and media in general.
In the "normal world" segments, you can choose how to spend your days. These vary from just hanging out with friends, to working part-time jobs, to joining after school clubs, and more. Most of these have ramifications with the dungeon crawling segments, generally making it easier in some regard. If you become good friends with a party member, their combat abilities get enhanced, for example. They'll be able to do stuff like crit against an enemy more frequently, or survive an attack that would kill them with 1 HP. That sort of thing.
There's actually a lot of systems involved in this segment, and although they're pretty intuitive, there is some depth and balance to them. To give one quick example, every character you can hang out with is represented by a Tarot Arcana. Additionally, every god you can fuse is also represented by a Tarot Arcana. By becoming better friends with Chariot, you can enhance the powers of Chariot gods. And if you have a Chariot god in your "party", your relationship grows more quickly with the Chariot character. However, you can only hold between 6 and 12 gods in your party at any given time, and some of the most powerful ones are in Arcana that don't actually quicken this aspect of the game. So there is a balancing act in determining whether you want to make the combat easier with stronger gods or you want to focus on your friendships and take potentially weaker gods to make your relationships grow faster. That's just one system but there's several more that add nuance to the relationship system. It helps to add to the balancing act that the games hinge on, where you also generally want to try to go into dungeons as infrequently as possible, so as to have more time to make friends and junk.
Persona retains a large number of systems from SMT, but generally it reduces the number of elements and makes fights easier to solve via overlevelling than they would be in SMT, where overlevelling is generally not very useful at all. The game is just easier overall. Another difference is that SMT doesn't have a huuuuge amount of straight up dungeon crawling, which Persona's dungeons are entirely just floor after floor after floor.
Also noteworth is that both series have some of the best music in games, and an insane variety, ranging from rock/metal to hip-hop to pop (these are all overworld themes), and the Persona series has some of the best UI design I've ever seen in a game.
Whew. That was really long-winded
Ultimadrago
Member
All I hear is "wah wah."
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Part of Persona 2 deals with characters from the first game after they've moved on from high school, but a good portion of the game still deals with high school students.
Oh noes, not everyone likes the games I like!
Less than half of the Persona series has randomly-generated dungeons. Only 3 and 4.
Persona 1, Persona 2: Innocent Sin and Persona 2: Eternal Punishment all had predesigned dungeons.
A more appropriate thing to say is that modern Persona games have tended towards random dungeons.
Ok thank you for the straightforward honest answer. It's just probably not a series for me then
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
That... honestly sounds absolutely horrible on all counts. Plus from what I hear of the music (jpop music during battles?! if there's a way to make a game a more awful and irritating experience, I can't think of any) is a huge, huge turn-off.
Clearly it's working all of a sudden. I used to think the same.
The ironic thing is how small of a portion this is in the games... it's almost an afterthought and you can even completely ignore it. Every fanbase has obnoxious fans... go on the Bioware forums and you'll see the same kind of discussion. It's a symptom of every single game with multiple party members.
But yeah, okay, being closed minded is cool too.
Anyway, to the OP: Persona is the combination of two things I'm not super fond of: Dungeon Crawling and Slice of Life Anime. Despite this, it became one of my favorite series of all time because it's just so well done. You heard that right: despite being two things I dislike, the combination resulted in something satisfying.
No, it's not for everyone, though. However, if you really are curious enough to ask, why not try it out?
RecursiveFault
Banned
Yup!
Aw man, the music permates everything and it's amazing. Since P3 they've had a pretty stylized soundtrack, note that P4 is more JPOP and P3 has more electronica and rap. P5 is looking to be jazz-y.
The same guy composed SMT Nocturne, Digital Devil Saga 1+2, and Raidou 1+2. They're all fantastic, and they all are pretty different in terms of genre.