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[NotSmartEnough]

It doesn't seem plausible that John Carmack had to Google how to wipe a hard drive, considering he has surely built dozens and dozens of computers in his day and sold/gave/disposed of what must be hundreds of HDD's. Presumably he would at minimum be familiar with DBAN, dozens of Windows wiping tools, or whatever exists in Linux, and could assuredly writen his own in about 10 minutes. Not even getting into how they would have come by such evidence, which I assume means he Googled it from his Zenimax computer. Definitely smells fabricated.

On what basis? "He's so smart, he wouldn't need to research that". Comedy gold.

 

[Reallink]

On what basis? "He's so smart, he wouldn't need to research that". Comedy gold.

What's being suggested is basically akin to a Heart Surgeon Googling "Where's the Heart Located?".

 

[Matt]

It doesn't seem plausible that John Carmack had to Google how to wipe a hard drive, considering he has surely built dozens and dozens of computers in his day and sold/gave/disposed of what must be hundreds of HDD's. Presumably he would at minimum be familiar with DBAN, dozens of Windows wiping tools, or whatever exists in Linux, and could assuredly writen his own in about 10 minutes. Not even getting into how they would have come by such evidence, which I assume means he Googled it from his Zenimax computer. Definitely smells fabricated.

That information was found by a court-appointed expert. Why would he fabricate anything?

Smart people just do dumb stuff sometimes.

 

[Tagyhag]

So Carmack was found at fault just not monetarily.

Now Zenimax is looking at stopping Oculus sales based on this. Its not over folks!

http://www.polygon.com/2017/2/1/14478258/zenimax-oculus-injunction

Oh shiiiiiiit. That's potential jail time for Carmack.

And I doubt they'd actually stop Oculus sales but can you imagine? Insane.

Maybe they'll get a cut per unit sold.

 

[AAK]

This particular one is over, but base on some of the rulings Zenimax is thinking of filling an injunction to halt the sale of Oculus headsets. Because the jury did find the Carmack lied, and stole electronic files, and source code (though they didnt award any money damages for it)

So they are only going to attempt Oculus from selling the Rift? What does Zenimax get if they succeed with this injunction (considering they don't even share the same direct market) ?

 

[MadJackChurchill]

So 1/4 of what Oculus is worth.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

[vpance]

You would think someone of his technical stature would not have to google how to wipe a hard drive at least lol

Or maybe this was this plan all along to get caught 🤔

 

[NotSmartEnough]

What's being suggested is basically akin to a Heart Surgeon Googling "Where's the Heart Located?".

Don't be daft.

Someone says they have evidence that he did something. You say "based on my second-hand internet-sourced understanding of the person in question, they would not have done that. Therefore the evidence is false."

Can you see what's wrong with that?

 

[Tain]

I think that has actually worked out quite well for Oculus / Facebook vs Zenimax's original claim

Yeah. I mean, Facebook DID say they were in for the super long term, lol.

 

[Wallach]

I'm glad that at least Luckey is being forced to pay a sum here himself. That's about the only "good" outcome of this thus far.

 

[Matt]

So they are only going to attempt Oculus from selling the Rift? What does Zenimax get if they succeed with this injunction (considering they don't even share the same direct market) ?

If ZM gets the injunction, they can force FB to pay them (as a lump sum, licensing, money per unit, etc.) to lift it.

 

[Slayven]

And that kids is why you take more then a weekend to vet a company for purchase

 

[Reallink]

Don't be daft.

Someone says they have evidence that he did something. You say "based on my second-hand internet-sourced understanding of the person in question, they would not have done that. Therefore the evidence is false."

Can you see what's wrong with that?

My assumption was this evidence was found and presented by Zenimax or their payrolled experts, not an unbiased party. Thanks to the selective bolding of the poster I was quoting, I skipped over the court-appointed part. My mistake, and it still sounds preposterous and unbelievable.

 

[Justified]

What's being suggested is basically akin to a Heart Surgeon Googling "Where's the Heart Located?".

In your attempt to defend him you are actually making him sound worst (combined with the fact he admitted to it, but I guess you skipped that part)

 

[Renekton]

I'll take it as a $50million fine for financing racist propaganda. WP ZeniMax.

Zenimax is tied to Trump, the heart of the storm.

 

[Techies]

http://www.polygon.com/2017/2/1/14478258/zenimax-oculus-injunction

K now they trying to stop Oculus sales, sabotage VR..

 

[Bronetta]

The jury must have played through DOOM, Dishonored 2 and Skyrim Remastered last year and were like damn these games are fire I need more of these.



Advance free copies for Prey for the whole jury!

 

[Matt]

http://www.polygon.com/2017/2/1/14478258/zenimax-oculus-injunction

K now they trying to stop Oculus sales, sabotage VR..

Again, they aren't trying to "sabotage VR." They just want to get paid.

 

[Justified]

http://www.polygon.com/2017/2/1/14478258/zenimax-oculus-injunction

K now they trying to stop Oculus sales, sabotage VR..

I doubt they are trying to sabotage VR, but who's fault/actions is it that this is even to this point? Not ZeniMax

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

What a mess. Carmack looks dirty and luckey confirmed what a baffoon he is.

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

http://www.polygon.com/2017/2/1/14478258/zenimax-oculus-injunction

K now they trying to stop Oculus sales, sabotage VR..

VR doesn't need any help. It's fucking up nicely on it's own.

 

[Persona7]

What a shit stain oculus turned out to be.

 

[Kysen]

I wonder how this value compares with the profits made on the occulus project as a whole.

 

[Team Filler]

Does this mean Bethesda can now afford QA?

 

[Seiru]

http://www.polygon.com/2017/2/1/14478258/zenimax-oculus-injunction

K now they trying to stop Oculus sales, sabotage VR..

Except the court specifically ruled that Oculus tech does not contain any ZeniMax property. So I'm not sure where the standing is to demand sales of the Rift cease.

 

[Mechanical Snowman]

Except the court specifically ruled that Oculus tech does not contain any ZeniMax property. So I'm not sure where the standing is to demand sales of the Rift cease.

Jury ruled that Oculus directly infrigned upon ZeniMax's software copyrights, in a substantial manner. Rifts contain ZeniMax owned code, according to the jury ruling.

 

[Justified]

Except the court specifically ruled that Oculus tech does not contain any ZeniMax property. So I'm not sure where the standing is to demand sales of the Rift cease.

Huh, they did find that Oculus infringement of copyrights and trademarks. What they did not find was that they misappropriated trade secrets

Earlier today, a jury in a U.S. District Court in Dallas awarded ZeniMax $500 million for Oculus' infringement of copyrights and trademarks and for violating a non-disclosure agreement.

http://www.polygon.com/2017/2/1/14478258/zenimax-oculus-injunction

 

[Seiru]

Jury ruled that Oculus directly infrigned upon ZeniMax's software copyrights, in a substantial manner. Rifts contain ZeniMax owned code, according to the jury ruling.

Can you link to where that's stated? I haven't seen anything like that in reports of the ruling.

 

[Jotaka]

http://www.polygon.com/2017/2/1/14478258/zenimax-oculus-injunction

K now they trying to stop Oculus sales, sabotage VR..

No. They sabotaged themselves for their bullshit.

 

[Seiru]

Huh, the did find that Oculus infringement of copyrights and trademarks. We they did not find was that they misappropriated trade secrets


http://www.polygon.com/2017/2/1/14478258/zenimax-oculus-injunction

My impression was that those violations were for using Doom BFG in their presentations to investors and in their Kickstarter?

 

[Mechanical Snowman]

Can you link to where that's stated? I haven't seen anything like that in reports of the ruling.

Sure, here's the polygon article: http://www.polygon.com/2017/2/1/14474198/oculus-lawsuit-verdict

Here's a .pdf of the court rulings, this particular ruling can be found on p 35 http://cdn.uploadvr.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/177110467696.pdf

Edit:

My impression was that those violations were for using Doom BFG in their presentations to investors and in their Kickstarter?

Nah, court documents specifically state that copyright infringements concern computer code. It actually goes as far as to state in the documents that it doesn't have anything to do with "any other type of copyrighted work or any use of copyrighted works by Defendants in promotional materials such as the Oculus Kickstarter".

 

[Demoskinos]

I don't see how Oculus weathers the storm they are going through. Between this lawsuit all the garbage with Palmer Luckey and high ranking members of their development team being arrested for Child Pornography Oculus right now is in real sad shape.

 

[Justified]

My impression was that those violations were for using Doom BFG in their presentations to investors and in their Kickstarter?

That was just the NDA violation part

(iv) there was a documented stream of computer code and other technical assistance flowing from ZeniMax to Oculus over the next 6 months; (v) Oculus in writing acknowledged getting critical source code from ZeniMax;

Oculus' response in this case that it didn't use any code or other assistance it received from ZeniMax was not credible, and is contradicted by the testimony of Oculus programmers (who admitted cutting and pasting ZeniMax code into the Oculus SDK), as well as by expert testimony

http://www.polygon.com/2017/2/1/14478258/zenimax-oculus-injunction

 

[jax]

Facebook should have sold Oculus instead of paying this out. This will not be the first time they have to cover Luckey's tracks. I really hope other companies put a headset out soon, I hate how Oculus is the only option besides the Vive. Makes VR, as a whole, look really bad.

 

[Mechanical Snowman]

and high ranking members of their development team being arrested for Child Pornography Oculus right now is in real sad shape.

That isn't what happened, but yeah, I agree their rep is in very bad shape.

 

[Seiru]

Sure, here's the polygon article: http://www.polygon.com/2017/2/1/14474198/oculus-lawsuit-verdict

Here's a .pdf of the court rulings, this particular ruling can be found on p 35 http://cdn.uploadvr.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/177110467696.pdf

Edit:



Nah, court documents specifically state that copyright infringements concern computer code. It actually goes as far as to state in the documents that it doesn't have anything to do with "any other type of copyrighted work or any use of copyrighted works by Defendants in promotional materials such as the Oculus Kickstarter".

Thanks, so basically, the jury found that Carmack helped with the Rift, and thus ZeniMax effectively owns his code?

 

[Justified]

Thanks, so basically, the jury found that Carmack helped with the Rift, and thus ZeniMax effectively owns his code?

They found he (while he was with Zenimax, and after he left) copied code from Zenimax computers, Oculus programmers copy/paste that code into their SDKs, and Carmack tried to cover his tracks once the lawyers came-a-calling

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

Good. Once some shit leaked out a week or two ago, it seemed pretty easily that Zenimax had a serious case. Good on them. Fuck any wrong doers.

 

[~Cross~]

That isn't what happened, but yeah, I agree their rep is in very bad shape.

Its worse, he got caught soliciting sex with a minor (undercover cop)

 

[Mechanical Snowman]

Thanks, so basically, the jury found that Carmack helped with the Rift, and thus ZeniMax effectively owns his code?

The way you write it makes it seem like the jury made inferences.

Actual evidence of copied code was found: Oculus was found to directly infringe on copyrighted code, with Palmer, Brendan and Carmack found to "contributorily" infringe on copyrighted code

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

Damn, is Zenimax going to put an injunction on Oculus products? Maybe my Rift will be a collectors item someday...

 

[Clefargle]

Palmer Luckey is a mess.

That's "Mr. Palmer Luckey the mess" to you

 

[Yukinari]

Damn, is Zenimax going to put an injunction on Oculus products? Maybe my Rift will be a collectors item someday...

See now i gotta name my oculus TF2 hat after this lawsuit.

 

[ScientificPizza]

Carmack loves the idea of open source everything and sharing of code/ideas. Nothing he did really reads as malicious, though he very obviously knew there would be *some* ramifications if Zenimax looked into it

Occculus and Carmack do look bad in this, but hopefully this is the extent of it

 

[DSN2K]

http://www.polygon.com/2017/2/1/14478258/zenimax-oculus-injunction

K now they trying to stop Oculus sales, sabotage VR..

sounds like they have every right too.

 

[Matt]

Carmack loves the idea of open source everything and sharing of code/ideas. Nothing he did really reads as malicious, though he very obviously knew there would be *some* ramifications if Zenimax looked into it

Occculus and Carmack do look bad in this, but hopefully this is the extent of it

Purposefully destroying evidence isn't malicious?

 

[Type40]

At this rate Palmer won't be able to afford shoes.

 

[PuppetMaster]

This is the most pure profit any company has made off of VR so far.

 

[ScientificPizza]

http://www.polygon.com/2017/2/1/14478258/zenimax-oculus-injunction

K now they trying to stop Oculus sales, sabotage VR..

I wonder what kind of ramifications this will have to the Ocukus brand. On PC they seem to be already divisive due to their handling of the Oculus Store, and both the Vive and PS VR seem more popular among enthusiasts

Though most people I have heard outside of the smaller enthusiast communities generally refer to VR as the Oculus Rift, kind of in the same way that every game system used to be refered to as a Nintendo, so the name still has cache

It's been a rough year for Oculus, though. Basically from their launch and price announcement onwards

Purposefully destroying evidence isn't malicious?

I mean more he wasn't doing it to actively harm Zenimax, but more because he was interested in the technology. It was malicious in the sense that, in destroying evidence, he was very aware of the illegality of what he was doing

 

[Woo-Fu]

I wonder how this value compares with the profits made on the occulus project as a whole.

Has Oculus made any profit that wasn't part of being bought by Facebook? Between R&D and hardware costs I wouldn't expect them to have made anything on product yet.