Mexen
Member
I've never played either title. Could this be a good place to start from for some completely new to both series?
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Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (NA) |OT| A puzzling delay
- Thread starter zroid
- Start date
I've never played either title. Could this be a good place to start from for some completely new to both series?
I've played every AA games and the first two Layton games and this game so far is a remarkable cure for my insomnia. So far it managed to be worse than AA2, that's quite the achievement. The first trial was okay but the second one is really terrible, good grief. The Layton puzzles so far are mostly trial and error stuff you can't fail.
Adam Prime
hates soccer, is Mexican
I'm enjoying this game a lot, playing it at a nice slow pace every night before bed. Yeah the Layton puzzles are "easy", but they're not frustrating and they don't take too long and the pace stays consistently moving forward in the game.
Bardiche
Member
I'm currently on Chapter 8. I'm liking the game so far.
I thought that I wasn't going to enjoy the game due to my dislike for the Professor Layton series, but the puzzles are tolerable and it also helps that you can just hint coin your way through the puzzles to get to the trials. I'm loving the aspect of
, and I like how quirky and crazy the witnesses are just like in the Ace Attorney series.
I thought that I wasn't going to enjoy the game due to my dislike for the Professor Layton series, but the puzzles are tolerable and it also helps that you can just hint coin your way through the puzzles to get to the trials. I'm loving the aspect of
questioning other witnesses during testimonies
We get to cross-examine a parrot again. It brings back good memories of the first Ace Attorney game.
meitantei_conan
Member
Got the game a few days ago and so far I'm really enjoying it. Only thing I find off is layton's 3D model. It looks like they made him taller and made his shoulders bigger. :/
And yet he's still really short next to Phoenix. Good thing he has that hat.
CambriaRising
Member
So whats the overall consensus here?
I might pick this up after I finish AA5 (I'm on episode 3, but I finished the DLC episode beforehand.) I played 1-4 in the AA series. Loved 1,3, 4, and have enjoyed 5 a bunch so far
I have never played a Layton game though.
I might pick this up after I finish AA5 (I'm on episode 3, but I finished the DLC episode beforehand.) I played 1-4 in the AA series. Loved 1,3, 4, and have enjoyed 5 a bunch so far
I have never played a Layton game though.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
It's definitely better than AA5. The ending is very Layton-esque, though.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
They talk in the Iwata asks about having to change the proportions of the Layton characters so they don't look bizarre next to Phoenix. Layton is normally like four heads tall, but in this game he's seven
cosmicblizzard
Banned
Starting chapter 4. I hate the puzzles in this game sooooooo much, but excited for the trial.
Milkncooke
Member
I think it's a pretty weak entry to either series. The puzzles aren't very challenging and the court cases aren't the best either. There's a lack of evidence in each case which makes them feel light. Cross examinations usually employ multiple witnesses at once. Instead of being a new and exciting challenge the new mechanic is simplistic . The game uses obvious cues to tell you when to cross examine a different witness. So instead of having to reason out faulty testimony yourself, the game essentially holds your hand through much of the cross examination. There are a few interesting uses of the mechanic and it does make the game stand out from other Ace Attorney games.
You also miss out on the investigation segments from Ace Attorney in favor of the exploration from Professor Layton. I would have liked if both were in the game. The ending is a lot like most Layton games as well which was pretty disappointing; I was hoping for something different. It's still a pretty fun game though, especially early on. Things start to go downhill halfway through in my opinion.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I'll disagree with the guy above me and say that the trials are great, and the best part of the game honestly. The multiple witness business is fun and things move along speedily enough that you find a satisfying flow
The Layton puzzles are the weakest part of the game, but the biggest contribution from the Layton side is the story, and the surprise to me is just how well a Layton story, with its puzzle-box design and quadruple-blind secrets works as a framework for the AA gameplay (which makes up a majority of the gameplay time I'd say)
It drags a little in the middle honestly, but the beginning and end are great (okay the end is great if you're already a fan of Layton-esque complete insanity). The middle just feels like wheel spinning.
Layton games have nice little stories. I wish more people would play Layton games.
Play Curious Village and Unwound Future. They're the best.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Oh I didn't notice that the poster hadn't played a Layton game
Yeah the thing about Layton games is that they're the anti-Scooby Doo. You start with a set of circumstances that seem supernatural or impossible and slowly the story hints that things aren't what they seem...but just when you think you've figured out how its all just a guy in a mask it turns out that while all the seemingly impossible stuff was fake, it was faked because he's actually a clockwork robot or the entire thing took place on the moon or something
Mind you, this game is a little different in some ways. I won't say if it adheres to formulae that strictly or not
Yeah the thing about Layton games is that they're the anti-Scooby Doo. You start with a set of circumstances that seem supernatural or impossible and slowly the story hints that things aren't what they seem...but just when you think you've figured out how its all just a guy in a mask it turns out that while all the seemingly impossible stuff was fake, it was faked because he's actually a clockwork robot or the entire thing took place on the moon or something
Mind you, this game is a little different in some ways. I won't say if it adheres to formulae that strictly or not
meitantei_conan
Member
Hmmm interesting. I had a feeling it had to do with that. lol
cosmicblizzard
Banned
Damn (early chapter 4 spoilers)
Luke is being a little fuck in this trial :/.
What this game excels at is its pacing (after the slightly slow start) which none of the recent AA games has done a good job of. Every case is an escalation and it just goes up and up. Mob interrogation is simplistic, yes, but it's far better than the mood matrix or the Apollo's bracelet thing which often feels far too arbitrary and isn't engaging. Mob interrogation is actually fun even if underused by the end.
I'd agree that this is a weak Layton puzzle game but it has the best Layton story. I also think that this is better than AA5 (which doesn't end satisfyingly) and that already makes it just below the original AA trilogy as one of the best AA games we ever had. Yeah, you could say the game is kind of easy in the AA sections, but then difficulty was never something I really looked for in an AA game (I can't name any challenging "gameplay" in the AA series and does anyone really remember the gameplay?) while the characters and the intrigue are always the best elements.
I'd agree that this is a weak Layton puzzle game but it has the best Layton story. I also think that this is better than AA5 (which doesn't end satisfyingly) and that already makes it just below the original AA trilogy as one of the best AA games we ever had. Yeah, you could say the game is kind of easy in the AA sections, but then difficulty was never something I really looked for in an AA game (I can't name any challenging "gameplay" in the AA series and does anyone really remember the gameplay?) while the characters and the intrigue are always the best elements.
Jawmuncher
Member
Finished both prologues. I need to make sure I beat this before the end of the year.
It seems like GOTY material for me.
It seems like GOTY material for me.
Just finished the first witch trial and something's bothering me. Couldn't find an answer by searching here:
When
cast Amere to reveal herself, that would have also revealed the Witch's Scepter she was holding, right? Then what would Emeer have thought if he turned around and saw her holding that? I'm also not clear on where exactly she thrown it away, before heading to where she had cast Ignaize earlier.
Kira
I'd actually argue that pacing is something the game isn't good at, at least for the ending. It's true the conflict escalates throughout the game, but I felt like the final trial just came to a screeching halt about halfway through and never really picked up proper steam again.
Endgame spoilers:
Endgame spoilers:
from the get-go you're certain Darklaw is the Great Witch, and even though the truth is more complicated than that, it gets exposed in really long, boring ways. The Storyteller's first testimony is something like six statements of exposition you have to press that each lead him to go on further backstory and it's pretty much awful. It doesn't help that the final trial itself is so massively long, at least as a single go - at four consecutive court segments, it's the longest uninterrupted trial in the AA series (and that's without counting the first half of chapter 8.) It felt like I was trapped in AAI-5 again.
Also maybe I'm a fuddy-duddy, but exposing Darklaw/the Storyteller just didn't have the same rush as catching actual criminals.
Also maybe I'm a fuddy-duddy, but exposing Darklaw/the Storyteller just didn't have the same rush as catching actual criminals.
SoulUnison
Banned
Just finished the game. If Maya doesn't return to Ace Attorney, I just don't know, guys.
She was totally on form this game. Energetic and helpful without me ever thinking "Geez, tone it down, girl." or feeling like she was drawing on anime cliches.
She's always been a great character to me, but there were a couple times in the original PW trilogy that I felt like she way too spacey for her own good.
As for my more spoiler-y impressions:
She was totally on form this game. Energetic and helpful without me ever thinking "Geez, tone it down, girl." or feeling like she was drawing on anime cliches.
She's always been a great character to me, but there were a couple times in the original PW trilogy that I felt like she way too spacey for her own good.
As for my more spoiler-y impressions:
I got weird 999 vibe-chills when Arthur Cantabella took the stand and went into his "I'm the president of a pharmaceutical company..." exposition. And then things just kept getting weirder from there.
GAME: "The magic was all an illusion created by the shades!"
ME: "Wait, even if that's true, how the hell did the "wall portal" spell work? And what about the magical invisibility cloak that we *just* proved is an *actual invisibility cloak?* And how the hell did an entire bell tower appear out of thin air in a blaze of flames!?"
GAME: "Everyone was hypnotized to ignore anything that's pure black, and the entire bell tower was covered in a pure black robe like the shades were using!"
ME: "So nobody ever walked across the giant inviting grassy plaza in the middle of town and bumped into the giant invisible bell tower? And even if the invisible-hypnosis thing tracks, wouldn't a giant structure like that covered in a black trap cast weird shadows that people would notice?"
GAME: "DRUGS AND HYPNOSIS!"
And then Layton and Wright somehow "dispel" the illusion on the entire town by dramatically pointing and saying a word? What the hell? I'm going to assume that part of the hypnotic suggestion was that people would snap out of it upon hearing the word "taelenda" or whatever it was, but don't you think that would be something to actually mention in the narrative itself, somewhere!?
Luke just kind of disappears after he and Layton leave the Storyteller's Tower and Layton appears as Inquisitor. When he suddenly showed up in the animated cutscenes again when the trial was over I actually said out loud "Oh yeah, Luke's in this." When he caught Espella and Darklaw/Eve with the crane machine all I could think of was how ridiculously lucky that was and how really, everybody should be looking at some bloody stains on the pavement. Also, nobody had been knocked out for this "trick." Wouldn't people have seen a floating little boy operating invisible levers?
How the hell were the witches and things in the beginning of the game before you get to Labyrinthia done, especially considering they were definitely witnessed by Layton and Luke and they weren't under any sort of suggestion yet? In retrospect a lot of the event of the first hour of the game are absolutely bonkers. Layton and Luke were alone at night in a secluded place when they were "sucked into" Labarynthia, but did Phoenix and Maya just get kidnapped/abducted right out of a courtroom lobby?
I was disappointed that we only got to hear Cornered (AA1 Version) once or twice in the entire game, it's just too great a song to pass up. Cornered (Spell Breaker) is amazing, though, so I guess it's not too bad. The Final Witness was also criminally underused and would have set some *amazing* atmosphere at a couple of points in the game.
The whole ending of the game just seemed to drag on, too. So many times that it felt like we'd wrapped up things fairly well and then someone would bring up something *else* to wring another testimony out of. And for all the padding and mysteries being clarified, there was never a really satisfying "gotcha!" moment in the final trial. Maybe because the story didn't really have a "villain." It was very much a Layton "figure out the mystery" ending and not a satisfying Ace Attorney "dealing out long-overdue justice" one.
It was weird how the idea of being responsible for the destruction of an entire town and the deaths of all its inhabitants was, justifiably so, something that pushed Espella to the edge of madness, but when Darklaw/Eve discovers it was actually *her* fault she just kind of shrugs and takes it in stride. "Oh, I killed my mom and dozens of others? Well if we dwell on that it won't seem like a happy ending!"
And then the Storyteller *out of fucking nowhere* goes "I have an incurable disease!" And they let that hang in the air for maybe 10 seconds before he's like "But also I have the cure, so... I don't know why I brought that up."
STORYTELLER: "I'm going to go into surgery, Espella, but I'll be back soon."
ESPELLA: "And then everything will be fine and happy, Daddy?"
STORYTELLER: "Of course, my dear."
ME: "Arthur Cantabella died of complications during surgery. THE END."
GAME: "The magic was all an illusion created by the shades!"
ME: "Wait, even if that's true, how the hell did the "wall portal" spell work? And what about the magical invisibility cloak that we *just* proved is an *actual invisibility cloak?* And how the hell did an entire bell tower appear out of thin air in a blaze of flames!?"
GAME: "Everyone was hypnotized to ignore anything that's pure black, and the entire bell tower was covered in a pure black robe like the shades were using!"
ME: "So nobody ever walked across the giant inviting grassy plaza in the middle of town and bumped into the giant invisible bell tower? And even if the invisible-hypnosis thing tracks, wouldn't a giant structure like that covered in a black trap cast weird shadows that people would notice?"
GAME: "DRUGS AND HYPNOSIS!"
And then Layton and Wright somehow "dispel" the illusion on the entire town by dramatically pointing and saying a word? What the hell? I'm going to assume that part of the hypnotic suggestion was that people would snap out of it upon hearing the word "taelenda" or whatever it was, but don't you think that would be something to actually mention in the narrative itself, somewhere!?
Luke just kind of disappears after he and Layton leave the Storyteller's Tower and Layton appears as Inquisitor. When he suddenly showed up in the animated cutscenes again when the trial was over I actually said out loud "Oh yeah, Luke's in this." When he caught Espella and Darklaw/Eve with the crane machine all I could think of was how ridiculously lucky that was and how really, everybody should be looking at some bloody stains on the pavement. Also, nobody had been knocked out for this "trick." Wouldn't people have seen a floating little boy operating invisible levers?
How the hell were the witches and things in the beginning of the game before you get to Labyrinthia done, especially considering they were definitely witnessed by Layton and Luke and they weren't under any sort of suggestion yet? In retrospect a lot of the event of the first hour of the game are absolutely bonkers. Layton and Luke were alone at night in a secluded place when they were "sucked into" Labarynthia, but did Phoenix and Maya just get kidnapped/abducted right out of a courtroom lobby?
I was disappointed that we only got to hear Cornered (AA1 Version) once or twice in the entire game, it's just too great a song to pass up. Cornered (Spell Breaker) is amazing, though, so I guess it's not too bad. The Final Witness was also criminally underused and would have set some *amazing* atmosphere at a couple of points in the game.
The whole ending of the game just seemed to drag on, too. So many times that it felt like we'd wrapped up things fairly well and then someone would bring up something *else* to wring another testimony out of. And for all the padding and mysteries being clarified, there was never a really satisfying "gotcha!" moment in the final trial. Maybe because the story didn't really have a "villain." It was very much a Layton "figure out the mystery" ending and not a satisfying Ace Attorney "dealing out long-overdue justice" one.
It was weird how the idea of being responsible for the destruction of an entire town and the deaths of all its inhabitants was, justifiably so, something that pushed Espella to the edge of madness, but when Darklaw/Eve discovers it was actually *her* fault she just kind of shrugs and takes it in stride. "Oh, I killed my mom and dozens of others? Well if we dwell on that it won't seem like a happy ending!"
And then the Storyteller *out of fucking nowhere* goes "I have an incurable disease!" And they let that hang in the air for maybe 10 seconds before he's like "But also I have the cure, so... I don't know why I brought that up."
STORYTELLER: "I'm going to go into surgery, Espella, but I'll be back soon."
ESPELLA: "And then everything will be fine and happy, Daddy?"
STORYTELLER: "Of course, my dear."
ME: "Arthur Cantabella died of complications during surgery. THE END."
I'm super grateful Nintendo localized this game, and I'd still rather play it than 95% of the drivel out there, but it's definitely my least favorite "Ace Attorney" game by a longshot. The supporting characters are boring, and the lack of series regulars hurts. I understand it's a crossover, but I feel like more Phoenix Wright stuff was sacrificed than Layton mechanics, and the Layton stuff kills the pacing a lot of the time. It's taking me a lot longer to finish than I expected. I can't really play it for prolonged periods. I'm nearly the end, though, and I'm wondering about the downloadable content. Are we not getting it?
Like I said, I don't like it as much as the other PW games, but I still like it. Enough to crave downloadable content. I honestly can't comprehend how anyone could think this is better than Dual Destinies, but that's the CrAzY thing about opinions!
Like I said, I don't like it as much as the other PW games, but I still like it. Enough to crave downloadable content. I honestly can't comprehend how anyone could think this is better than Dual Destinies, but that's the CrAzY thing about opinions!
cosmicblizzard
Banned
Some early chapter 5 stuff.
Oh hey, music box version of Turnabout Sisters. Nice touch.
Phoenix seems to be taking Maya's "death" pretty well, especially considering how he acted in a certain chapter in Justice For All.
Oh hey, music box version of Turnabout Sisters. Nice touch.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Seriously. Please bring Maya back in AA6
Just finished the game at 31 hours. Save the bullshit ending explanation, the game was pretty good. I liked how they integrated the two series together. But I simply can't agree with those saying it's better than AA5. As it stands, here's how I rank the game with other AA games.
AA1>AA3>AA5>AAI=PLvsPW>AA2=AA4
If I was ranking solely on the story, PLvsPW would be dead last. It just can't compare to any of the stories in the AA games.
100% agree.
AA1>AA3>AA5>AAI=PLvsPW>AA2=AA4
If I was ranking solely on the story, PLvsPW would be dead last. It just can't compare to any of the stories in the AA games.
100% agree.
Hyrule Warrior
Member
I apologize with this being kinda off topic, but I have a question regarding the Ace Attorney games, and since I'm a junior member, I couldn't make a thread of my own, and I didn't want to necrobump some other thread.
Anyway, my question is in regards to the original trilogy. For some reason, silly me played the first Phoenix Wright game, and even though I really liked it, I never got around to playing any of the others in the series. I recently finally played Justice for All on the DS. Now I'm looking forward to Trials & Tribulations. I recently bought Dual Destinies while it was on sale on the eshop, and I also picked up a copy of PLvsPW the other day, kinda preparing to go forward in the series finally after all these years.
What I'm wondering is would you recommend me ordering a copy of T&T for the DS, or maybe getting the iOS version on my iPhone? Is that one good? I'll probably still order Apollo Justice for DS afterwards, but it would be cheaper to get the iOS version of T&T on it's own. However, I'm not sure how well that version is regarded.
Fake edit: I did just remember also that I have a Wii U, and the original trilogy did come out on WiiWare also. Would that be a good option to consider? I don't really know much about the differences.
Anyway, my question is in regards to the original trilogy. For some reason, silly me played the first Phoenix Wright game, and even though I really liked it, I never got around to playing any of the others in the series. I recently finally played Justice for All on the DS. Now I'm looking forward to Trials & Tribulations. I recently bought Dual Destinies while it was on sale on the eshop, and I also picked up a copy of PLvsPW the other day, kinda preparing to go forward in the series finally after all these years.
What I'm wondering is would you recommend me ordering a copy of T&T for the DS, or maybe getting the iOS version on my iPhone? Is that one good? I'll probably still order Apollo Justice for DS afterwards, but it would be cheaper to get the iOS version of T&T on it's own. However, I'm not sure how well that version is regarded.
Fake edit: I did just remember also that I have a Wii U, and the original trilogy did come out on WiiWare also. Would that be a good option to consider? I don't really know much about the differences.
The DS version IS the best version to get, frankly, but it's also a lot more expensive than the iOS version. The iOS version has glitchy animations, generally not very nice presentation (subjective I guess) and has other weird things going on, but is perfectly playable so if you don't mind not having a physical copy, that one works out fine.
Alternatively the Wii Version is literally a straight port of the DS version. If you don't mind not having it on a handheld, it should be ok.
There also an Ace Attorney community thread if you have any questions.
Well, just cleared it. Here's my 2 cents, coming from an Ace Attorney fan and haven't played any Layton games before:
This game is great for those who never had exposure to any of those franchises. As someone who never played a Layton game, this game managed to introduce me to the character, showed me how much of a badass he is and intrigued me to give a Layton game a shot (though I certainly don't know which one and would love to have someone recommend me a game!), though from what I've seen by the weak Ace Attorney segments, I can also tell that the Layton ones aren't completely indicative of a full-blown Layton game. This also downplayed Phoenix's character as a result, making him look like a straight out dumbass in comparison (while I think it's partially true, Layton makes anyone look and sound dumb at this point from what I've seen).
Sorry for the block of text.
The story was alright enough to keep me interested throughout my 25 hour playthrough, I thought the court scenarios are weak compared to Ace Attorney games. Maybe it's something with the writing? I think this is Level-5's localization, not Capcom's so it felt a little weird to me.
Layton segments and puzzles were okay but none of the puzzles I've played felt like they were challenging at all, most of them I managed to clear just by randomly guessing without giving them much thought.
I liked the twists, though you could tell the general direction the story is headed most of the time. What I absolutely hated though was how much they were willing to give away in terms of mystery from character designs. You can tell - clearly - that this person is the antagonist because of certain details in their design, some of the pre-court cutscenes give away too much detail on the crime so if you pay more attention you'll be able to easily tell who did what, giving witness testimony pressing less appeal because you already have a good grasp at the "truth". Getting past the obvious lying became a chore because of that.
Multiple witness cross-examination was a nice new gimmick, though at the end of the game it caused me a lot of headache especially with the game's writing and didn't quite enjoy it much.
Layton segments and puzzles were okay but none of the puzzles I've played felt like they were challenging at all, most of them I managed to clear just by randomly guessing without giving them much thought.
I liked the twists, though you could tell the general direction the story is headed most of the time. What I absolutely hated though was how much they were willing to give away in terms of mystery from character designs. You can tell - clearly - that this person is the antagonist because of certain details in their design, some of the pre-court cutscenes give away too much detail on the crime so if you pay more attention you'll be able to easily tell who did what, giving witness testimony pressing less appeal because you already have a good grasp at the "truth". Getting past the obvious lying became a chore because of that.
Multiple witness cross-examination was a nice new gimmick, though at the end of the game it caused me a lot of headache especially with the game's writing and didn't quite enjoy it much.
This game is great for those who never had exposure to any of those franchises. As someone who never played a Layton game, this game managed to introduce me to the character, showed me how much of a badass he is and intrigued me to give a Layton game a shot (though I certainly don't know which one and would love to have someone recommend me a game!), though from what I've seen by the weak Ace Attorney segments, I can also tell that the Layton ones aren't completely indicative of a full-blown Layton game. This also downplayed Phoenix's character as a result, making him look like a straight out dumbass in comparison (while I think it's partially true, Layton makes anyone look and sound dumb at this point from what I've seen).
Sorry for the block of text.
Pureauthor
Member
The Golden Court is not only the best trial in the game, but in the running for one of the best in the entire AA franchise.
Of course that has to be the game's high-water mark.
Of course that has to be the game's high-water mark.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
I am currently in it, and it's great because Phoenix does almost all the job himself. I always *hated* it when Phoenix depends so much on other person to do his job, like Mia, or at the 2nd trial of this game, Layton.
It's the best case in the game, but it wouldn't even make my top 10 list of best AA cases. The case (and the game overall) just doesn't match the clever twists and the "Gotcha!" moments that so many other AA cases have.
I'll have to agree with that. It's certainly the better case in this game, just nothing in this game compares to a proper AA case, in my opinion.
Oh my.
I presume I'm getting to the part of the endgame that is the infamous Layton-style twist. I've only played Layton 1 and 2 so that's the extent of my personal understanding of a Layton-style twist.
I'm really enjoying the game and I presume it's a mix between Takumi's detective-style reveals and Level 5's production values.
The point and click map gives the town a sense of place that you don't get from selecting a list of locations, having a few dynamic camera angles and closeups during the trials mitigates repeating the sudden reaction faces and audience chatter, the multi-witness interrogations might just be giving you a few more sentences to Press but the way they're presented and written and how witnesses react to each other's testimony is a great change in the dynamics of how witnesses present and modify their statements, and the incidental voice acting is a handy extra sound effect in emphasizing a turning point or just setting a tone. I thought the fantasy setting was neat actually, forcing usual PW evidence to turn on it's head, medieval Europe has no cameras, no fingerprints, no DNA analysis, no logic, it's not "She used magic, therefore she is a Witch," but rather "She's a Witch, therefore she used magic!" Burn the witch! You're frequently arguing not against someone who is deliberately lying, but against people who are convinced they're right because they don't know better.
I mean, yeah, you want to strangle the witnesses who counter all your arguments with "a wizard did it!" but it was also fun when you disproved them because of the restrictions on magic in Labyrinthia. You'd think that kind of argument is hopeless to defeat but it's really not.
I did notice that the Layton puzzles seemed easier and more forgiving then I remembered, I only busted out the memo pad half a dozen times and brute forced the trial and error ones (you don't lose Pictorats for failing? You can reset the board state or quit out anytime? Time to be careless!). Phoenix and Maya's "I solved it!" faces were great too. I still don't think I'd go after Layton stuff independent of this crossover, but in the context of investigation segments of Phoenix Wright, it was novel.
I presume I'm getting to the part of the endgame that is the infamous Layton-style twist. I've only played Layton 1 and 2 so that's the extent of my personal understanding of a Layton-style twist.
But man...
The trial started with a bang and all manner of frantic back and forths and while you understand Darklaw is... well, named Darklaw, you're essentially scrambling to convince your client not to plead guilty. The shuffling of witnesses (including the 10 witness barrage), the ominous outdoor setting, and the discovery of "Kira" made the first half of the trial a delirious whirlwind.
And then It became Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright.
aka Professor Layton is a jerk who knows the answers and the answers are stupid
... They're also so stupid, it was impossible to predict them so good on them! I'm pretty sure once the huge world-altering twists started rolling, almost all of them were indefensible once they were uttered. Indefensible meaning they could be disproven with the slightest consideration. When I presented Grandwyrm as evidence, I only meant that it was the secret they were trying to protect, I didn't mean to prove that magic doesn't exist in Labyrinthia.
... Among everything else. It keeps topping itself!
The trial started with a bang and all manner of frantic back and forths and while you understand Darklaw is... well, named Darklaw, you're essentially scrambling to convince your client not to plead guilty. The shuffling of witnesses (including the 10 witness barrage), the ominous outdoor setting, and the discovery of "Kira" made the first half of the trial a delirious whirlwind.
And then It became Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright.
aka Professor Layton is a jerk who knows the answers and the answers are stupid
... They're also so stupid, it was impossible to predict them so good on them! I'm pretty sure once the huge world-altering twists started rolling, almost all of them were indefensible once they were uttered. Indefensible meaning they could be disproven with the slightest consideration. When I presented Grandwyrm as evidence, I only meant that it was the secret they were trying to protect, I didn't mean to prove that magic doesn't exist in Labyrinthia.
... Among everything else. It keeps topping itself!
I'm really enjoying the game and I presume it's a mix between Takumi's detective-style reveals and Level 5's production values.
The point and click map gives the town a sense of place that you don't get from selecting a list of locations, having a few dynamic camera angles and closeups during the trials mitigates repeating the sudden reaction faces and audience chatter, the multi-witness interrogations might just be giving you a few more sentences to Press but the way they're presented and written and how witnesses react to each other's testimony is a great change in the dynamics of how witnesses present and modify their statements, and the incidental voice acting is a handy extra sound effect in emphasizing a turning point or just setting a tone. I thought the fantasy setting was neat actually, forcing usual PW evidence to turn on it's head, medieval Europe has no cameras, no fingerprints, no DNA analysis, no logic, it's not "She used magic, therefore she is a Witch," but rather "She's a Witch, therefore she used magic!" Burn the witch! You're frequently arguing not against someone who is deliberately lying, but against people who are convinced they're right because they don't know better.
I mean, yeah, you want to strangle the witnesses who counter all your arguments with "a wizard did it!" but it was also fun when you disproved them because of the restrictions on magic in Labyrinthia. You'd think that kind of argument is hopeless to defeat but it's really not.
I did notice that the Layton puzzles seemed easier and more forgiving then I remembered, I only busted out the memo pad half a dozen times and brute forced the trial and error ones (you don't lose Pictorats for failing? You can reset the board state or quit out anytime? Time to be careless!). Phoenix and Maya's "I solved it!" faces were great too. I still don't think I'd go after Layton stuff independent of this crossover, but in the context of investigation segments of Phoenix Wright, it was novel.
Tizoc
Member
GoTY for me, but it ties with AA5 for me too.
CambriaRising
Member
Thanks guys, I'll check it out.
Finished this game the other day.
I loved it. Seriously. I never gave the Proffesor Layton games a serious chance (I remember playing the first one then dropping it once I got stuck on some math mice problem). I've played every AA game (including AAI2) for reference. I have to say the little quotes they sprinkled throughout the game (and during the bonus content) is superb
!
Spoilers to follow:
Is there talks of a sequal?! I would love to see this expanded upon.
I loved it. Seriously. I never gave the Proffesor Layton games a serious chance (I remember playing the first one then dropping it once I got stuck on some math mice problem). I've played every AA game (including AAI2) for reference. I have to say the little quotes they sprinkled throughout the game (and during the bonus content) is superb
(ex. Zvarri! 17 cups of tea, parrot testimony)
Spoilers to follow:
Maybe since I didn't play a Layton game before this the twist at the end was not what I expected AT ALL. And in a good way. I'm used to the grounded-ness of PW games so when this game was all fantasy and magic it had me concerned. But personally, the way they have you invested in this world/magic/court system was perfect. It allowed you to really get mindfucked during the last few chapters when they reveal it was all drugs, machines and lies.
Some questions I had (like how the stone statues moved at the start of the game) where answered during the bonus content so that actually was a great surprise (I thought they just overlooked it). The "not seeing pure black" is kinda bullshit because as someone said before just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there. Plus if the witches carried bells with them to "make people unconcious" during spells wouldn't these people have no recollection of that moment? They would just wake up later like nothing happened. So stuff like the first trial with Kira wouldn't have happened the way it did because everyone would have passed out in the woods just from being near her and her bells. Unless they wait for everyone to wake up first? But honestly I LOVED the multi-witness testimonies and the spell book (if only since it offered more evidence to present).
I thought it was really strange they abonded all PW investigation gimmicks (psyche-locks, logic chess, etc.) for just straight dialouge but I guess Maya would have been ousted as a witch (but Luke got to talk to animals so IDK). I also wish there was more "objection" puzzles, those where really awesome and really made use of the crossover well. I will admit I didn't get bored at all but I love PW games so maybe I am a bit biased? It would have been cool if they brought Edgeworth as the final inquisitor instead of layton because it could have done a great lead up to the "its present day england the whole time" reveal. But overall, amazing game that really is made for the hardcore fans!
Some questions I had (like how the stone statues moved at the start of the game) where answered during the bonus content so that actually was a great surprise (I thought they just overlooked it). The "not seeing pure black" is kinda bullshit because as someone said before just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there. Plus if the witches carried bells with them to "make people unconcious" during spells wouldn't these people have no recollection of that moment? They would just wake up later like nothing happened. So stuff like the first trial with Kira wouldn't have happened the way it did because everyone would have passed out in the woods just from being near her and her bells. Unless they wait for everyone to wake up first? But honestly I LOVED the multi-witness testimonies and the spell book (if only since it offered more evidence to present).
I thought it was really strange they abonded all PW investigation gimmicks (psyche-locks, logic chess, etc.) for just straight dialouge but I guess Maya would have been ousted as a witch (but Luke got to talk to animals so IDK). I also wish there was more "objection" puzzles, those where really awesome and really made use of the crossover well. I will admit I didn't get bored at all but I love PW games so maybe I am a bit biased? It would have been cool if they brought Edgeworth as the final inquisitor instead of layton because it could have done a great lead up to the "its present day england the whole time" reveal. But overall, amazing game that really is made for the hardcore fans!
Is there talks of a sequal?! I would love to see this expanded upon.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
As for Kira:
They never needed bells. Throw the cloak on her standing up, and take it off when needed. They were already waiting with the fire machine, too.
I could've maybe bought that, assuming that they don't need to
ring the bell if they just need people to see the spell effects and people just didn't notice them in their black outfits. Of course, this requires that they know the exact place within a meter of where Kira is going to yell Ignaize which is still nuts.
The Golden Court trial discrepancy bothered me also in that people seemed to remember
the falling unconscious and waking up part, the silver bell condition doesn't stop that. So if they did replaced Layton with gold Layton while everyone was in a hurry to save Phoenix, they must've had to do that within seconds while Luke and co. were right behind the professor. Or they knocked out Luke and co. too in that duration, I dunno. The timing gets all messed up.
I really liked the other trials though! The surprises from statement to statement were a blast. The final trial though, the more I think about it, the more lol it gets. Even the plot hole plugs in the special episodes are more cutesy fix its then legitimate to me, heh.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
^Accidentally de-spoilered that quote, I would edit
cosmicblizzard
Banned
Beat it. Alright game that would have been a lot better if I was a Layton fan in the slightest. Could probably count the puzzles I liked on one hand.
The court sections were hit or miss. Don't know what to think of the multi-witnesses. Interesting idea, but I don't think I was a major fan of it in practice. Really the only mechanic I thought was cool that came of that was utilizing contradicting testimonies, something that was VASTLY underused.
On the story side, things did pick up near the end. I didn't think the twist was awful like some others in here, or I guess I should say I liked the way it was revealed.
Overall, while I did like the game to an extent, I did find it disappointing. I might have been a bit more lenient if I hadn't finished Danganronpa 2 only recently. Been thinking about it during the court sections, but that series has kind of replaced Ace Attorney in my heart as far as 'trial' games go.
The court sections were hit or miss. Don't know what to think of the multi-witnesses. Interesting idea, but I don't think I was a major fan of it in practice. Really the only mechanic I thought was cool that came of that was utilizing contradicting testimonies, something that was VASTLY underused.
On the story side, things did pick up near the end. I didn't think the twist was awful like some others in here, or I guess I should say I liked the way it was revealed.
It does give you a lot to think about, like how some of the parents there are totally shitty for signing their children's lives away for the experiment. Would have been a cooler twist if the townsfolk were mostly criminals (some possibly on death row), but the implications might be too dark for a Layton game.
Overall, while I did like the game to an extent, I did find it disappointing. I might have been a bit more lenient if I hadn't finished Danganronpa 2 only recently. Been thinking about it during the court sections, but that series has kind of replaced Ace Attorney in my heart as far as 'trial' games go.
Adam Prime
hates soccer, is Mexican
Wow, I just finished the first court trail.
Wow... this game is rated T? Dual Destinies was a M? Jeesh the end of that trial was... freaking disturbing. The most I've played in the series. I thought it was worse than that last episode of Dual Destinies.
Wow... this game is rated T? Dual Destinies was a M? Jeesh the end of that trial was... freaking disturbing. The most I've played in the series. I thought it was worse than that last episode of Dual Destinies.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
Yep, witches can burn in fire for a T rating, but heaven forbid anyone outright mention alcohol.
Anyway, I've not really played Layton games before, but I think it's pretty lackluster for a Phoenix Wright game.
You never really had a heavy emotional investment for or against anyone, and anytime you reveal the truth, it never truly feels like you've earned it. Also, it felt like a chore cross-examining a billion witnesses on the stand at once. I want to say that the London trial was the best: best trial, best evidence, best witnesses, best music, best breakdowns, best hips...
cooljeanius
Member
I just finished Episode 7 today...
ShadowgeistX
Member
Finished the game. Takumi's writing is leagues above the tripe that gets churned out for AA5/AAI/etc (not that I don't enjoy those games, but there's a massive gap here). Still, the way the plot unfolds just feels like a massive Professor Layton fanwank. I can't help feeling like I wish the game was written so that Phoenix/Layton were actual equals in the story rather than the way it was presented here. It also makes Layton's 'couldn't have done it without you' moments feel like complete bullshit.
Still, courtroom battles are enjoyable and I got my money's worth from this game in that regard.
Still, courtroom battles are enjoyable and I got my money's worth from this game in that regard.