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Progressive rock
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fistfulofmetal
Banned
Dream Theater has always swayed between the rock and metal. Also you're dumb. Stop posting.
Spotless Mind
Member
In Absentia would probably be the best starting point. Their style has changed a lot over the years, though, so it depends what you're looking for. Their last 3 albums (In Absentia, Deadwing and Fear of a Blank Planet) have been the most metal oriented, especially FoaBP.fistfulofmetal said:
WHOAguitarninja
Member
agrajag said:
The idea of classifying progressive music between rock and metal as a means of stratifying the two I find to be highly ironic and hilarious.
teruterubozu
Member
Dream Theater is prog rock for those kids who missed the real deal.
WHOAguitarninja
Member
agrajag said:
Not at all. I understand what you are getting at, I just find your stance to be counter to what makes progressive music interesting.
WHOAguitarninja said:
Progressive metal is not progressive in the real sense of the word. It's completely cliched and predictable just like any genre of music. Dream Theater is the epitome of that. Bands like Dream Theater, Symphony X, Shadow Gallery, Vanden Plas, etc. just got their name "progressive" because they sometimes play in odd time signatures and noodle on their instruments.
WHOAguitarninja
Member
agrajag said:
You're generalizing too much here. Bands like Pain of Salvation are Progressive Metal as well, but I think you'd have hard time calling them predictable. You're certainly free to say that you don't think Dream Theater exemplifies prog's best elements, I think most would agree regarding the latter half of their catalog, but to say they are not progressive, when a big part of the point of prog was to get away from strict verse chorus verse structure, is being a bit unfair. To condemn the entire genre is nonsense, though.
WHOAguitarninja
Member
agrajag said:
Common ground, nice. Which is your favorite album?
But I think that we're differing on how we're defining prog metal and relating it back to prog rock. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be coming from the standpoint of it being partially based in the abandonment of the core tenets of prog, especially experimentation, for a heavier sound. I tend to see it as a means to add more grit to the structures that prog rock pioneered. Which is subtly different I think. In that respect, I think bands like Dream Theater certainly fit the bill. I just don't see how an album like Scenes from a Memory can be said to not be progressive.
I think taking an artists statements about their own classification isn't really appropriate. To use an extreme example, if Britney Spears told you she was extreme death metal, we would laugh. I'm not saying what Gildenlow is suggesting is as ridiculous, but merely that I don't think an artist should be the last word on how to classify their own music.
In any case, this whole discussion seems silly because I've always felt one of the nice things about progressive rock is the surprise it allows by basically doing away with having to classify things. As such, sub genres such as prog metal and symphonic prog and what have you seem to be fundamentally missing the point to me.
BronzeWolf
Banned
Dismissing Agraj and his non-sense for the moment
I just had a hard listen at Dream Theater's Black Clouds and Silver Linings and I think is again a fantastic album. My impressions of the disc (not a review)
- A nightmare to remember is good stuff. I've heard some purist say that it's too new-Dream Theater'y with the growing vocals and dark themes, but I don't mind that stuff (I liked Systematic Chaos quite A LOT) and the song just flies by. I like how Portnoy put in "Can does he blast beats?" and I am pretty sure he did it just to acknowledge the insider Mike Portnoy forum joke!
- A rite of passage. The writting is so-so, but the chorus and riffs are super powerful! I didn't mind Jordan Rudess solo, it was fun.
- Wither. As with all slow songs I haven't checked out the lyrics on this one, but I'll do it next time, not much to comment, a very good slow song
- The only song I didn't like that much was The Shattered Fortress. I mean, it's awesome but is' a re-exposition of the Alcoholism Suite previous songs.
- The song that made me go ohhh this is what I like about this guys is The Best of Times. Happy proggy songs are not very common and this is just a very good one.
- The count of tuscany. The album goes with a bang! Super fun song with awesome guitars
And that's that, if you say Dream Theater sucks... well
I just had a hard listen at Dream Theater's Black Clouds and Silver Linings and I think is again a fantastic album. My impressions of the disc (not a review)
- A nightmare to remember is good stuff. I've heard some purist say that it's too new-Dream Theater'y with the growing vocals and dark themes, but I don't mind that stuff (I liked Systematic Chaos quite A LOT) and the song just flies by. I like how Portnoy put in "Can does he blast beats?" and I am pretty sure he did it just to acknowledge the insider Mike Portnoy forum joke!
- A rite of passage. The writting is so-so, but the chorus and riffs are super powerful! I didn't mind Jordan Rudess solo, it was fun.
- Wither. As with all slow songs I haven't checked out the lyrics on this one, but I'll do it next time, not much to comment, a very good slow song
- The only song I didn't like that much was The Shattered Fortress. I mean, it's awesome but is' a re-exposition of the Alcoholism Suite previous songs.
- The song that made me go ohhh this is what I like about this guys is The Best of Times. Happy proggy songs are not very common and this is just a very good one.
- The count of tuscany. The album goes with a bang! Super fun song with awesome guitars
And that's that, if you say Dream Theater sucks... well
WHOAguitarninja
Member
hectorse said:
Listen to it again. I had the same reaction at first, but most of the riffs have been slightly or heavily reworked. I actually think the song is pretty damn brilliant now, and it's probably one of the strongest or perhaps even the most strong "heavy" song DT has written.
CygnusXS said:
I very much want to hear this but haven't had the chance yet. It's on my list to order from Amazon next. Just bought a TV though so that'll have to be on the next paycheck.
WHOAguitarninja said:
ATM my favorite album is The Perfect Element, but I fluctuate between that and Remedy Lane. I love them all, really, with Scarsick and Entropia being least favorite.
I'm not sure what you mean by progressive. Are you using the word as a genre or as an adjective? Sure they are in the progressive metal genre. Which is defined by lengthy instrumental passages, unconventional song structures, odd time signatures, dramatic singing. But that's not really progressive (adjective) when a million other bands are doing it. Dream Theater was at one time progressive (adjective), and I think of them as the originators of the prog metal genre (along with Fates Warning). And I do think Scenes from a Memory is their best work, I like that album.
Here's a good thread on John Petrucci's forum that has a nice discussion about this very issue going on:
http://petrucciforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63245
DG's argument is, ironically, that what PoS does is completely antithetical to bands like Dream Theater. I think he is right. But you're right, this "argument" is mostly semantics and kind of pointless. I just wanted to be a smart ass for a moment. It went over everyone's head except yours anyway. Nice talking.
BronzeWolf
Banned
I still don't see the point of prog metal =/= prog rock. While you seemed to have a point, it is not even remotely relevant to the discussion at hand!
I've only had one good listen to the album!
I am sure I'll keep discovering stuff with time, since I am a very very very bad fist time listener.
I didn't like the Octavarium disc that much at first... but I was one day just listening to the album on my Zune on the couch doing nothing and I found out how awesome the disc actually was, especially Sacrificed Sons
WHOAguitarninja said:
I've only had one good listen to the album!
I am sure I'll keep discovering stuff with time, since I am a very very very bad fist time listener.
I didn't like the Octavarium disc that much at first... but I was one day just listening to the album on my Zune on the couch doing nothing and I found out how awesome the disc actually was, especially Sacrificed Sons
agrajag said:
:lol
There are some huge fallacies in that pathetic argument you have there but I'll play along.
On the basis for your first argument that since DT is "universally considered" prog metal and therefore it is prog metal, the same can be said for Pain of Salvation as well. Wikipedia and Encyclopedia Metallum both label PoS as progressive metal. I think that's certainly universal enough. Google Pain of Salvation and you see progressive metal coming up a lot as well. Just like it is for Dream Theater.
On the basis for your second argument that Daniel Gildenlow doesn't consider his band to be in that genre and hence PoS should not be considered a prog metal band, well, Mike Portnoy considers DT to be progressive rock and hence DT should be considered progressive rock.
EDIT:
agrajag said:
Uhh, "wanted to be a smart ass for a moment"? You are a smartass in almost all of your posts on this page.
WHOAguitarninja
Member
If you already like the album, you'll probably love it soon. I pretty much hated the album at first, but after a few spins I realized it was the best thing they've done in quite some time.
agrajag said:
Remedy Lane is tops for me, with Scarsick being the bottom (though Disco Queen is freaking absurdly brilliant song, doesn't seem to go well live though).
Speaking of PoS live, not sure if you're US based, but they recently pulled out of the Progressive Nation 09 tour =(. I guess their label's parent company shat an economic brick and they basically lost all of their funding. It's killing me because I already had tickets to an august show that I was super pumped for. They've been my favorite band for about 5 years, so I've never got to see them live. Oh well...at least they actually WANT to come to the US again.
BronzeWolf
Banned
I am going to ProgNation tour at LA =) so excited
I saw Dream Theater, OPETH and 3 last year at Universal Studios. Awesome Show and a very hard to top line up!
I saw Dream Theater, OPETH and 3 last year at Universal Studios. Awesome Show and a very hard to top line up!
hectorse said:
I didn't really like A Nightmare To Remember the first two or three times I listened to it but it really grew on me and it's probably my favourite track on the album now. Count of Tuscany is great as well and I love Labrie's performance in that one. Like I said in an earlier post, Labrie pulled off a fantastic performance in this album. Can't wait to hear them live again.
WHOAguitarninja
Member
agrajag said:
Oh I've been enjoying it. It's bitter sweet though because it just makes me want to see them live that much more. It always strikes me as kind of absurd just how good Daniel sounds singing live. Halgren is pretty great too sometimes. The fact that they have two great singers, who also both happen to be pretty great guitarists kind of boggles the mind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9PZOPUUnuk
When they played at ProgPower USA the second time my friend got to interview them and he brought me along as a photographer :lol I got to chat with Daniel a bit, Kristoffer and Johan Langell were there too, but they stayed quiet and let Daniel do all the talking during the interview. Daniel is a very humble and nice person in real life. He commented on my Meshuggah shirt, recognizing them as a fellow Swedish band.
Damn I saw almost a whole page worth of discussion and was disappointed to find out it was some stupid elitist argument on prog. metal vs. prog. rock nonsense...
Anyway! I'm listening now to Nostalgia, the latest album by Satellite. It's kinda pop-ish (Prog archives classifies it as new-prog/prog. rock) but it's pretty great, the first song definitely reminded me of Rush, although the second is nothing like it (maybe more like Pineapple Thief? It's a pretty big change).
Anyway! I'm listening now to Nostalgia, the latest album by Satellite. It's kinda pop-ish (Prog archives classifies it as new-prog/prog. rock) but it's pretty great, the first song definitely reminded me of Rush, although the second is nothing like it (maybe more like Pineapple Thief? It's a pretty big change).
BronzeWolf
Banned
Any love for the band 3?
BronzeWolf
Banned
I quite love those guys.
I also like the flower fucking kings, gayest band in the prog world produce amazing music WTF!
And
IZZ
Which is the kind of proggy that I like nowadays. I think somebody labeled them as "Eclectic Prog Rock"
I also like the flower fucking kings, gayest band in the prog world produce amazing music WTF!
And
IZZ
Which is the kind of proggy that I like nowadays. I think somebody labeled them as "Eclectic Prog Rock"
3 is amazing. Wake Pig is one brilliant album.hectorse said:
Edit: And another recommendation from me: Giant Robots And Sunsets by Richie Nieto (who is actually Costa Rican like me, although to be fair has spent most of his life in Canada).
Here's a link to a short review. Actually I think you can listen to the songs there too. He sounds a lot like Tony Levin's stuff, and I've been mildly addicted to the album for the past last week, amazing stuff.
TalonsOfJustice
Neo Member
This thread needs a lot more good bands and a lot less Dream Theater.
BronzeWolf
Banned
TalonsOfJustice said:
So care to contribute instead of being a stupid troll?
I am listening right now to Gordian Knot! Been on my backlog for quite some time, and it's that kind of instrumental math prog rock, the one that dwells strictly with music by rhythm numbers.
Pretty awesome
High five.hectorse said:I am listening right now to Gordian Knot! Been on my backlog for quite some time, and it's that kind of instrumental math prog rock, the one that dwells strictly with music by rhythm numbers.
Pretty awesome
Emergent is fantastic.
Gordian Knot is really nice, I have both of their albums. If you like that stuff, here's some mandatory listening:
At War With Self is the project by Glen Snelwar, who contributed to the writing on the first Gordian Knot album. Naturally, many of his ideas and melodies will remind you of Gordian Knot. Really quality stuff.
If you know Gordian Knot, I probably shouldn't tell you what this is.
Paul Masvidal's and Sean Reinert's more mellow, alterna-rocky project.
Indian-influenced progressive/fusion metal band from Florida. Sean Reinert and Shawn Malone of Cynic/Gordian Knot were session musicians on the first album, which I highly recommend.
At War With Self is the project by Glen Snelwar, who contributed to the writing on the first Gordian Knot album. Naturally, many of his ideas and melodies will remind you of Gordian Knot. Really quality stuff.
If you know Gordian Knot, I probably shouldn't tell you what this is.
Paul Masvidal's and Sean Reinert's more mellow, alterna-rocky project.
Indian-influenced progressive/fusion metal band from Florida. Sean Reinert and Shawn Malone of Cynic/Gordian Knot were session musicians on the first album, which I highly recommend.
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