boredandlazy
Member
I don't know exactly since I've never used Nintendo's VC however it sounds the same.
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PS2 on PS4 - how can Sony save this
- Thread starter Jack The Nipper
- Start date
I don't know exactly since I've never used Nintendo's VC however it sounds the same.
badcrumble
Member
Kill trophies, give us full (or, like, 99%) PS1/2 backwards compatibility, open the floodgates and sell tons of simple disc images for lots and lots of free money.
shouamabane
Member
It's tough. I'm not sure this sort of thing can make money the way it is currently done.
Virtual Console isn't what it used to be. I don't think MS makes much money off of this sort of thing either.
Virtual Console isn't what it used to be. I don't think MS makes much money off of this sort of thing either.
It probably needs to be something that's low maintenance, easy to throw in, lasts across generations, and ends up being kind of "fire and forget" as it can just keep making money when something makes those games get some attention. Situations where it ends up not continuing to next platform (or worse, something like this or 3DS happens) probably does more to discourage buying in than not, certainly I didn't care as much on 3DS and on PS4 I wasn't as inclined to buy "for the sake of having it" as I was on PS3.
Though the nature of games being more dependent on improving mechanics and interfaces probably doesn't help. And some of these older games could REALLY stand to have some QOL updates (or straight up went with a design/control scheme that was quickly shown to be a bad idea or badly obsolete once others put for their advances.)
Fredrik
Member
Oh, it's awful on WiiU VC, it completely destroys the visuals, constant stuttering.
How many games are affected by this in the PAL region? All or just a few? Why aren't they just selling the ntsc version instead? Isn't not like gamers don't speak english nowadays and isn't not like the PAL versions were better in any other way.
There is absolutely no way that the need for trophies is slowing down the release of PS2 games on PS2.
Factually incorrect.
Factually incorrect.
Beer Monkey
Member
The input lag on Psychonauts was terrible. Is this the norm?
This is the fucking problem:
First and foremost Sony needs to bring forward the PS1 and PS2 classics that are on PS3, if not also bring back PS1 disc compatibility.
Sony's mentality changed completely going into PS4 when it came to its back catalog. Before Sony had a contiguous library of PS1 games that carried between PS3, PSP, and Vita. It sold PS2 games digitally because the PS3 couldn't emulate PS2 perfectly enough to allow for disc compatibility, but modders found out the PS3 really does contain a complete PS2 emulator. Fuck, Sony has still been releasing some of those PS1 and PS2 classics for PS3 this year. I've bought quite a few PS1 games on PS3 I still want to play. What I liked in particular is that Sony seemed to target classics that were expensive as fuck at retail. The Japanese selection is on a whole other level.
But if you look at the store now it even separates "Classics" and "PS2 games" into different sections. If you look at the posts on the PlayStation blog the Classics seemed to be about actually bringing back classic games. Again, there was a particular focus on bringing back hard-to-find games. With PS2 on PS4 it seems more about just reselling games with the excuses being 1080p and trophies.
Maybe Sony is just trying to bring back its classics a different way now. Along side PS2-on-PS4 we're seeing Sony invest more in total remakes of PS1 and PS2 games like Crash and Parappa. Now that Sony's in a position of strength with the PS4 it seems content to simply dip into its back catalog occasionally for more revenue. But that method is never gonna capture a plurality of the PS1 and PS2 libraries which some two of the most massive and valuable in console games. The only real way to make all that accessible is full-blown emulation for all games.
Of course Microsoft primarily cares about its BC initiative because it's trying to get more people onto its planned future for the Xbox platform. At least MS is creating something that feels more hardware agnostic and is supposed to give each game more permanence and shelf life.
I've always wondered about the possibility of someone just selling an official emulator for like $50 or $60 that would just play any disc or ISO you put into it. Like, what if SEGA put together and sold a Dremacast emulator for a modern console or something like that?
For that to happen though the company would have to give up on reselling individual games. It would have to reach a point where porting or testing each individual game versus how much money they'd make on each of those games, isn't worth it compared to selling one emulator for a higher price. How many people would buy that emulator? The population of people who hold onto those discs is probably a minority.
First and foremost Sony needs to bring forward the PS1 and PS2 classics that are on PS3, if not also bring back PS1 disc compatibility.
Sony's mentality changed completely going into PS4 when it came to its back catalog. Before Sony had a contiguous library of PS1 games that carried between PS3, PSP, and Vita. It sold PS2 games digitally because the PS3 couldn't emulate PS2 perfectly enough to allow for disc compatibility, but modders found out the PS3 really does contain a complete PS2 emulator. Fuck, Sony has still been releasing some of those PS1 and PS2 classics for PS3 this year. I've bought quite a few PS1 games on PS3 I still want to play. What I liked in particular is that Sony seemed to target classics that were expensive as fuck at retail. The Japanese selection is on a whole other level.
But if you look at the store now it even separates "Classics" and "PS2 games" into different sections. If you look at the posts on the PlayStation blog the Classics seemed to be about actually bringing back classic games. Again, there was a particular focus on bringing back hard-to-find games. With PS2 on PS4 it seems more about just reselling games with the excuses being 1080p and trophies.
Maybe Sony is just trying to bring back its classics a different way now. Along side PS2-on-PS4 we're seeing Sony invest more in total remakes of PS1 and PS2 games like Crash and Parappa. Now that Sony's in a position of strength with the PS4 it seems content to simply dip into its back catalog occasionally for more revenue. But that method is never gonna capture a plurality of the PS1 and PS2 libraries which some two of the most massive and valuable in console games. The only real way to make all that accessible is full-blown emulation for all games.
Of course Microsoft primarily cares about its BC initiative because it's trying to get more people onto its planned future for the Xbox platform. At least MS is creating something that feels more hardware agnostic and is supposed to give each game more permanence and shelf life.
I've always wondered about the possibility of someone just selling an official emulator for like $50 or $60 that would just play any disc or ISO you put into it. Like, what if SEGA put together and sold a Dremacast emulator for a modern console or something like that?
For that to happen though the company would have to give up on reselling individual games. It would have to reach a point where porting or testing each individual game versus how much money they'd make on each of those games, isn't worth it compared to selling one emulator for a higher price. How many people would buy that emulator? The population of people who hold onto those discs is probably a minority.
Rockstar mentions in their financial report that their ps2ps4 portfolio has been selling rather well, btw
Like when they do those crazy price slashes in the holiday, MS isn't doing it to make money - it's to lock people to their ecosystem which is their biggest worry this gen.
Doctrine Dark
Member
Would it even be possible to add PS2 disc based BC for the PS4? Just wondering. I'd love that.
Atom Heart Mother
Banned
just put games up people care about
i mean geez microsoft is constantly getting new titles on BC, why can't sony
i mean geez microsoft is constantly getting new titles on BC, why can't sony
It just feels so limited with the catalog.
And all those Rockstar games I bought so many times, I figure I'll pick them up again at $5 price point.
And with something like PCSX2 running on any decent PC, it even bears witness to so many framepacing problems on these ports.
Don't mandate trophy support, set everything at $10 or less and fix performance.
And all those Rockstar games I bought so many times, I figure I'll pick them up again at $5 price point.
And with something like PCSX2 running on any decent PC, it even bears witness to so many framepacing problems on these ports.
Don't mandate trophy support, set everything at $10 or less and fix performance.
Caayn
Member
I don't see any reason why Sony can't.
I think the difference is that Microsoft, outside of licensing, does all the work for the pub/dev. Whereas Sony requires the pub/dev to put in extra work to increase resolution/performance and include trophies on top of licensing.
LiquidSolid
Member
Source? I assumed publishers have to submit their games to Sony (specifically, their Special Operations team) for a fee, who then do the actual work.
If people have problems with trophies then go buy a ps2/ps3 for a fraction of the price and play your games on that. Why should I as a gamer be incovenienced by your choices? Why can't we have both? And more. Man, people are so entitled and don't give a toss about others and how they play.
Trophies for me are basically a checklist of the experiences I've had and with a completionist mindset they are essential for me so I can move onto the next game and only look back if I really really enjoyed the game. I still play MGS3 as an example after platinuming it many years ago but I know I have done everything in the game and that the 100% with the platinum is an indication of this.
Trophies for me are basically a checklist of the experiences I've had and with a completionist mindset they are essential for me so I can move onto the next game and only look back if I really really enjoyed the game. I still play MGS3 as an example after platinuming it many years ago but I know I have done everything in the game and that the 100% with the platinum is an indication of this.
Jack The Nipper
Banned
The exclusive games need to come and come hard, I'm not that worried about the bullies/manhunt/psychonauts etc honestly as I can get them elsewhere and likely already own then on various platforms from 360/Steam anyways.
But the exclusive and niche games need a way to be bought and I think any gamer can agree with wanting those games for others to be there even if you don't like them.
They obviously need to do something, as PS2 games are still amazing (burnout, gow, MGS etc)
But they are obviously in a bit of situation here with streaming/ps3 ps2 hd releases etc
They need to get off their forced stances and do something fast/soon and not later. They didn't exactly light up the release list on ps3 either as it still look 7 years to get decent amount of games...
One thing I think we can all agree on is that they need to do something sooner not later and do it better than they have ever did it as it has never been great.. They seem really cheap on this aspect , so if you do it cheap I guess it doesn't always work out
But, honestly there are some ps2 ports that feel good or even somewhat better in some ways (atleast not worse that much) when it comes to games like SSX, MGS2, SH and so on.
Obviously Sony needs to reach out to EA, Konami to get these games rolling. Quite honestly, they need to do a proper remaster of some of these games for a ps4 release. One that doesn't actually mess up the games in anyway, just makes them proplery scaled for 4K (speaking on MGS2/SH2/3)
But, it would be more than nice to get an emulator that works in the same fashion MS is doing on 360, getting many games to work and random games to work. Shox, raw danger etc would all be welcome editions not to mention the atv games which are still great compared to whatever they are making today in those generes.
Can it really be that hard to emulate PS1 titles and drop the prices to 2.99 each?
But the exclusive and niche games need a way to be bought and I think any gamer can agree with wanting those games for others to be there even if you don't like them.
They obviously need to do something, as PS2 games are still amazing (burnout, gow, MGS etc)
But they are obviously in a bit of situation here with streaming/ps3 ps2 hd releases etc
They need to get off their forced stances and do something fast/soon and not later. They didn't exactly light up the release list on ps3 either as it still look 7 years to get decent amount of games...
One thing I think we can all agree on is that they need to do something sooner not later and do it better than they have ever did it as it has never been great.. They seem really cheap on this aspect , so if you do it cheap I guess it doesn't always work out
But, honestly there are some ps2 ports that feel good or even somewhat better in some ways (atleast not worse that much) when it comes to games like SSX, MGS2, SH and so on.
Obviously Sony needs to reach out to EA, Konami to get these games rolling. Quite honestly, they need to do a proper remaster of some of these games for a ps4 release. One that doesn't actually mess up the games in anyway, just makes them proplery scaled for 4K (speaking on MGS2/SH2/3)
But, it would be more than nice to get an emulator that works in the same fashion MS is doing on 360, getting many games to work and random games to work. Shox, raw danger etc would all be welcome editions not to mention the atv games which are still great compared to whatever they are making today in those generes.
Can it really be that hard to emulate PS1 titles and drop the prices to 2.99 each?
sechsterangriff
Member
They just need to make it true backward compatibility. That about it.
rochellepaws
Member
Scrapping trophies would make future purchases a deal breaker for me. I've purchased quite a few of the PS2 releases and most of them I own already. I don't have any interest in re-purchasing games if they aren't adding new features like trophies.
Personally I've been happy with the service and got 7 or 8 games out of it, they're priced reasonably, offer a new challenge for an old experience with trophies and new ones come out frequently enough for me.
Personally I've been happy with the service and got 7 or 8 games out of it, they're priced reasonably, offer a new challenge for an old experience with trophies and new ones come out frequently enough for me.
GhostTrick
Banned
Scrap the dumb trophies and let people play their PS2 classics bought on PS3... Or even better, let them put their PS2 disc inside the console.
Sangetsu-II
Member
Im surprised people want trophy support dropped. Its literally the only reason Im buying them. If anything should be dropped is the updated graphics. Old games don't need them.
Trophies give the game purpouse and replayability imo. Why else would a play a game a 100% 10 years ago.
Trophies give the game purpouse and replayability imo. Why else would a play a game a 100% 10 years ago.
Silent hill aside, wouldn't it better to bring the ps3 remasters of those instead of the originals?
I like the trophies too
But looks like add the trophies is one of the reasons why they took so long to release new games
If this is true, just drop the trophies
Sangetsu-II
Member
If they do that then a lot of people won't buy them. But if they keep them games will take long to come out? It's a lose/lose situation then.
I don't care about trophies on new games so there's no reason for me to care about them in old ones, especially if their preventing more games coming to a system I own.
Also the reasons I want more ps2 games is that I didn't get to play everything I wanted to from that generation, especially stuff like Atlus or games I just didn't have the money to buy at the time.
GhostTrick
Banned
Because higher res doesnt need extensive work to happen, as opposed to trophies.
The point is to play classics on newer TV without them looking like a pixelated mess.
peanutbutterlatte
Member
Rockstar Games & Friends. Third party support is just non-existent, or you have the awkward scenario when there's a way better HD version on PS3.
rochellepaws
Member
They would also be expected to drop the price back to the classics level.
Between the original releases and the extensive classics library on PS3 and Vita I think they're available in enough places for people who really want them. I don't think Sony should have to cater for a section of the audience who care about playing old games but who also discard all of their old systems for some strange reason.
Backwards compat would be ideal but certainly none of this should come at the expense of people who are enjoying their current system of enhanced port.
Jimnymebob
Member
I feel like that argument can go both ways. What about the people who want to play the games on their PS4 with an increased resolution, increased framerate and what other post processing things they add to make the games not look like a mess when upscaled to 1080p on a HDTV, but have to wait for the games to be drip fed to them due to the trophy requirement?
Crankshaft
Member
Have you hooked a PS2 up to a modern tv lately? It looks disgusting. The PS4 is a powerful system, theres no way that it couldnt handle PS2 emulation right out of the box.
GhostTrick
Banned
It can and it does. The only reason PS4 doesnt play PS2 discs is because of Sony's policies. Unless PS4 disc drive cant read DVDs, they have a general PS2 emulator that plays games at higher res. Save for trophy support, everything else can be done with the disc and without publisher input.
GoldenCrow
Member
Get some good will by adding cross buy to all PS2 games as the PS1 games did between the PS3, PSP and Vita.
Don't force trophies. For the devs/publishers that want to they can sell it as DLC for those that already own the game and an SKU with it included for those that don't.
Have a section of PSN called Playstation Archives where you can access games from past generations which is really easy to search and you only have to buy them once to be playable on future hardware. Also bring PS1 and PSP games to the PS4.
Cap prices at a reasonable rate and introduce some of the higher reviewed games to PS+.
Don't force trophies. For the devs/publishers that want to they can sell it as DLC for those that already own the game and an SKU with it included for those that don't.
Have a section of PSN called Playstation Archives where you can access games from past generations which is really easy to search and you only have to buy them once to be playable on future hardware. Also bring PS1 and PSP games to the PS4.
Cap prices at a reasonable rate and introduce some of the higher reviewed games to PS+.
VelveteenTouch
Member
This right here. Heck if they made it a Pro only feature I'd deeply consider upgrading to one.
Not having cross buy killed my interest in them right from the beginning. If they are really in on this iterative console future they should be building trust that they will make sure past PSN purchases carry forward as much as possible as would happen on PC. Instead their poor support for backward and forward compatibility has told me they will drop support whenever they feel like it.
Acquiescence
Member
Scrap the current bollocks system they're using now where it's mandatory to include trophies and just give us traditional backwards compatibility like the PS3 had.
You're basically describing how Bleemcast worked. Their plan was to release it in volumes, with each volume allowing you to boot about 100 PS1 games. As we all know, Sony nuked the idea from orbit.
Using Sega releasing an emulator for their own games is an interesting thought. Could the PS4 even read the special 1gb DC disc format? I feel like Sony wouldn't like it, they would want the sweet licensing fees from individual game releases.
Worse.
No bilinear filtering so 2D games look awful. Also messed up aspect ratios in some games (GTA trilogy, just so the shitty in-game cropped widescreen will fill up the whole screen).
They actually need to do this since many games make use of analogue face buttons.
SlipperyFishes
Banned
Games made in 2017 have trophies and achievements baked into the design process. It's probably harder to look at 15 year old games and find arbitrary goals that aren't just "level complete"
I could see an outside chance of it happening on PC but I doubt console manufactures would allow it. Technically you could say Sega sell an emulator on Steam right now with their Mega Drive classics line up, it even has workshop support for rom hacks. But still it only comes bundled with Sega games.
Jimnymebob
Member
Can you not change widescreen mode to off in the options? You could on the PS2 version of San Andreas at least, and I'm not sure about the 3 and VC, but San Andreas always had the zoomed in and cropped widescreen on PS2.