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[Dead Prince]

Music CDs are going the way of the dodo. They don't even have the advantage of Vinyl discs "analogue" warmth to keep them relevant with audiophiles.

so youre saying they will have vinyl support

 

[realalbedo]

I liked Crazy Ken ideas back then though. All those talk about Cell being supercomputer. I even used Linux on my PS3 and was fascinated by Folding Home.

 

[Corto]

so youre saying they will have vinyl support

If Kutaragi was still in charge? Absolutely!

 

[Stampy]

Can someone please explain me what did he exactly do differently when compared to the rumored Durango specs. Don't they have more or less the same architecture, while the differences are in fine details and nothing that visionary, I see the change in thinking from PS3 to PS4. But if PS4 and Durango architectures are so similar, why is Cerny getting so much praise?

 

[Zophar]

Can someone please explain me what did he exactly do differently when compared to the rumored Durango specs. Don't they have more or less the same architecture, while the differences are in fine details and nothing that visionary, I see the change in thinking from PS3 to PS4. But if PS4 and Durango architectures are so similar, why is Cerny getting so much praise?

Because the PS4 is announced.

 

[Endo Punk]

Glad Sony is going back to its roots. As a fan of their platform their stance with the launch of the PS3 was cringeworthy, clearly they had forgotten how they got into the industry and what made PS1 such a hit with developers and gamers.

These "Issues" gave us Uncharted 2. So I'm hoping the PS4 has the same issues lol

ND will be able to make UC2 level leaps much quicker with an easier architecture.

 

[BigJoeGrizzly]

Can someone please explain me what did he exactly do differently when compared to the rumored Durango specs. Don't they have more or less the same architecture, while the differences are in fine details and nothing that visionary, I see the change in thinking from PS3 to PS4. But if PS4 and Durango architectures are so similar, why is Cerny getting so much praise?

Because Sony's information is officially confirmed and Microsoft's isn't?

 

[Endo Punk]

I liked Crazy Ken ideas back then though. All those talk about Cell being supercomputer. I even used Linux on my PS3 and was fascinated by Folding Home.

For all he hype Cell got it barely performed better than the 360. Even Sony's inhouse devs didn't release anything that showed a difference for the first 2 years. And even now the difference is negligible imo.

 

[Angelus Errare]

The 60GB PS3 (not the lower end 20GB/software BC SKU) was in very high demand at launch and sold out for awhile (before anyone twists my words and says they weren't selling, that was a few months post-launch) and the more enthusiast crowd was all over it. Now enter this generation, the longest wait ever for a new generation, mixed with the introduction to user devotion to huge digital libraries (and the trational disc) and electronics industry shift to seeing "convenience/luxury devices" like iPads that do nothing other household device can't, that sell for $8465636 without anyone complaining...I think a "super premium" PS4 SKU that does everything, PS3+PS4 Cell+x86 for $599 or $699 is not farfetched. Like the 2006 60GB PS3, this would be a limited SKU, phased out to curb costs; the enthusiast crowd would have what they need. For the aimed mass sales and general public and "realistic" SKU (and just great for people outraged in this thread outraged about my "farfetched" posts), we would have the cheaper, standard x86-only PS4.

I hope you mean $799-899.

 

[Stampy]

Because Sony's information is officially confirmed and Microsoft's isn't?

But yes, there is a really high possibility that rumors are correct regarding the next Xbox architecture, and then it will seem that Cerny was not so much a visionary as a follower of a general trend, or is there something else that I am not getting?

 

[Corto]

Can someone please explain me what did he exactly do differently when compared to the rumored Durango specs. Don't they have more or less the same architecture, while the differences are in fine details and nothing that visionary, I see the change in thinking from PS3 to PS4. But if PS4 and Durango architectures are so similar, why is Cerny getting so much praise?

Because you need to take into account Sony's history and compare PS3 vs. PS4 in terms of hardware but also in terms of people in charge of the projects. Sony chose a western developer to be head architect of its console hardware development. While that in and of itself is not praise-worthy, a Japanese developer could have been as successful as Cerny if it was the right person, it shows a willingness of Sony to rock the boat and take some difficult decisions that possibly could be met with inertia by their high ranking engineers to achieve something different than PS/PS2/PS3 architecture wise.

 

[Man]

Can someone please explain me what did he exactly do differently when compared to the rumored Durango specs. Don't they have more or less the same architecture, while the differences are in fine details and nothing that visionary, I see the change in thinking from PS3 to PS4. But if PS4 and Durango architectures are so similar, why is Cerny getting so much praise?

PS4 memory setup is much more elegant (X720 development will 'suffer' for the next 7+ years in comparison) and the system is over all stronger (+50% gpu power) than leaked Durango specs. The PS4 is delivering on all fronts (hardware, os functions, controller input, launch titles) confirmed at this point. The Durango might deliver strongly on several fronts (os?) but in power and hardware elegance it's now the lesser of the two.
Cerny is also being applauded for the general attitude turn-around within PlayStation.

 

[iceatcs]

so youre saying they will have vinyl support

Well if it allow USB audio input, then I don't see any problem.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

But yes, there is a really high possibility that rumors are correct regarding the next Xbox architecture, and then it will seem that Cerny was not so much a visionary as a follower of a general trend, or is there something else that I am not getting?

I think it's due to him fighting for and getting the changes needed. The ps4 is pretty radically different in terms of design then previous playstations, and i'd wager we largely have him to thank for that.

The fact that AMD sold him the same sort of tech as they sold MS is irrelevant. Both were probably blind to what amd was doing, and both woudl have had numerous custom tweaks requested to suit their needs.

 

[Canis lupus]

How come ps2 was fine with the difficult architecture?

It dominated the market and didn't have to worry about getting ports because the games were built with PS2 in mind.

 

[Honey Bunny]

Has there been any negative news on the PS4?

Well theres the actual downside of there being no BC, and then the made-up downside of it not playing your favourite audio CDs. That´s it.
Oh and....the inevitable price.

 

[Syphon Filter]

Well theres the actual downside of there being no BC, and then the made-up downside of it not playing your favourite audio CDs. That´s it.
Oh and....the inevitable price.

i don't think it will be 500.

 

[kirblar]

i don't think it will be 500.

They are going to be doing everything possible to undercut Microsoft's market share.

 

[Tripolygon]

Source here but ignore if old.

 

[BlastProcessing]

I dare someone to say something bad about Mark Cerny. I dare you!

I know it sounds crazy, but what about if Sony, instead of using existing architecture that's already out there, worked hard to make a "Super Cell" (no DBZ references please)? Full BC with PS3 and all of it's digital offerings (large amount of retro archive games down the drain now too) plus a high end, cutting edge console. Then we get to the idea that it would be hard to develop for like PS3. Well, that's why it's the Super Cell. It would use custom tailored, just as PS2 and PS3 architecture/chips were, to be as easy to develop for as x86. Why should we say Cell is bound to what it was in 2006?

But for fun, let's just say they didn't do that, they did what you brought up. An expensive x86 console with Cell hardware included. Really, how much more would that be running? They could easily do a "premium" SKU that has full BC (Cell, PS4+PS3) for even $200 USD more than the standard SKU (x86, PS4 software only).

Designing and manufacturing a Modern CPU is way more difficult than you imagine. There is no way Sony could do it on their own. IBM and Toshiba helped on the Cell. Neither has any intrest in Cell anymore. That leaves Intel, AMD or ARM.

 

[Corto]

I dare someone to say something bad about Mark Cerny. I dare you!

He has obvious sleeping problems! There.

 

[BradleyLove]

The disc drive does not read CDs. It only plays DVD and Blu-ray Disc. Good luck getting that drive to rip CDs if they don't change it or it wasn't in error.

No, we've been told it doesn't support music CD playback. That is not the same as it not being able to read (and rip) a CD, music or otherwise. Don't forget, original Xbox could read DVD but prevented playback without the optional remote.

 

[SlowRevolution]

To be fair the dude does some amazing reaction faces:

holy shit at the bags under his eyes.

cerny's the best thing that's happened to Sony in a long time

 

[Paskil]

If I was Mark Cerny, I would masturbate to this thread.

 

[Binabik15]

It sort of sounds like Sony was glad to finally kick the PS3 out of the door and that it wasn't spontaneously exploding when Krazy Ken was finished.


Cerny seems super competent and open to suggestions at the same time AND he will lull you to sleep with his articulate voice

Spoiler

and haunt your dreams with his I-will-stab-you-to-death-and-wear-you-as-a-hat stare

.

 

[Toparaman]

so youre saying they will have vinyl support

That would be so awesome.

 

[Drek]

But yes, there is a really high possibility that rumors are correct regarding the next Xbox architecture, and then it will seem that Cerny was not so much a visionary as a follower of a general trend, or is there something else that I am not getting?

If we take current rumors to be true here are the differences:

PS4 : X720
8GB GDDR5 : 8GB DDR3 + 32MB ESRAM
1.84 TFLOPs GPU : 1.23 TFLOPS GPU
8-core Jaguar between 1.6-2.0Ghz : ?????
BSD OS with very small footprint : Windows based OS with large footprint
OpenGL and LibGCM native APIs : Direct X as the only native choice
Unrestricted access to code "to the metal" : strongly rumored to be restricted from coding "to the metal".

Those are some pretty clear differences right off the bat.

MS and Sony were starting with the same kinds of basic tools, but Cerny's approach looks much more elegant and effective than MS' alternative on how to use them.

 

[benny_a]

Came for the article. Stayed for the reaction faces.

If there is no objection by anyone I think I know my next avatar

 

[AgentChris]

Cerny pls.

 

[fluffydelusions]

Cerny <3

 

[RSLAEV]

So any-chance Japanese developers see the PS4 as a 'western' console because it's design and focus is being spearheaded by a non-Japanese? Is it still a "Japanese product" because it has the Sony name on it?

I like the guy and I like his attitude, but I wonder how this setup will be received over there.

 

[Insane Metal]

In a forthcoming article, Gamasutra will share the many details of the PlayStation 4's architecture and design that came to light during this extensive and highly technical conversation

Bring it!!

Nice article. And I really like this guy (Cerny).

 

[Insane Metal]

To be fair the dude does some amazing reaction faces:

LOL, can I have the last img in avatar resolution please?

 

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

Source here but ignore if old.

Ok, I like how prominent the arrows are now that the repressed + behind the up/down/left/right buttons is gone.

 

[Iacobellis]

It dominated the market and didn't have to worry about getting ports because the games were built with PS2 in mind.

Which is one of the advantages to being first.

 

[AstroNut325]

As much as I love Cerny right now, Kaz has to unveil it.

I disagree. Cerny has become the face of Playstation's future. He is the one who needs to unveil the shiny plastic box.... alongside Kaz.

 

[Fezan]

But yes, there is a really high possibility that rumors are correct regarding the next Xbox architecture, and then it will seem that Cerny was not so much a visionary as a follower of a general trend, or is there something else that I am not getting?

As much as i respect cerny (unlike many others i knew about him before ps4 conference) he is not a visionary at all. he is just following the general trend heck even original xbox had x86 processor . its just neogaf hyping him to be some sort of super messiha.
Ken kutagri in my option was a true visionary. His plans may have backfired and were pain in the ass for developers but he at least had a vision and pushed technologies at that time

 

[Flatline]

LOL, can I have the last img in avatar resolution please?

Here:

 

[Kccitystar]

LOL, can I have the last img in avatar resolution please?

EDIT: wow beaten

 

[Corto]

So any-chance Japanese developers see the PS4 as a 'western' console because it's design and focus is being spearheaded by a non-Japanese? Is it still a "Japanese product" because it has the Sony name on it?

I like the guy and I like his attitude, but I wonder how this setup will be received over there.

We know that Cerny lived and worked in Japan for years and is fluent in Japanese. That might not make him a Japanese Culture Expert™ but it could sway the more skeptical. It certainly was a factor in the decision I'm sure.

 

[Iacobellis]

So any-chance Japanese developers see the PS4 as a 'western' console because it's design and focus is being spearheaded by a non-Japanese? Is it still a "Japanese product" because it has the Sony name on it?

I like the guy and I like his attitude, but I wonder how this setup will be received over there.

If it means no Ridge Racer at launch, I'll be pissed.

 

[Maztorre]

Ken kutagri in my option was a true visionary. His plans may have backfired and were pain in the ass for developers but he at least had a vision and pushed technologies at that time

This is the equivalent of defending George W Bush with "...but you could have a beer with the guy". Sure, Kutaragi blew the entire PlayStation line's profits and a huge amount of marketshare (while screwing around with an architecture that had to be bailed out last minute with an nvidia GPU to make it work)...but at least he had a vision!!!!

Kutaragi released 1 fantastic, developer friendly system that blew the competition out of the water(PS1). I would say he helped revolutionise the console market with that system and took console gaming out of hobbyism and into mainstream entertainment.

Of his other systems, the PS2 was unbalanced and a pain to develop for, but everyone basically sucked it up and had to stick with it because it completely dominated the market. The PSP was launched with him proclaiming the system as working as intended when the buttons were literally grinding the sides of the screen bevel to fit his intended form factor. The PS3 literally wiped any financial gains he had brought Sony off the books.

 

[artist]

To be fair the dude does some amazing reaction faces:

Thanks, welcome my new avvy.

He's got a resemblance to Ballmer with the second expression :lol

 

[kharma45]

Has there been any negative news on the PS4?

I'm surprised there hasn't been more said about the CPU itself, Jaguar could well be it's Achilles Heel.

 

[Corto]

This is the equivalent of defending George W Bush with "...but you could have a beer with the guy". Sure, Kutaragi blew the entire PlayStation line's profits and a huge amount of marketshare (while screwing around with an architecture that had to be bailed out last minute with an nvidia GPU to make it work)...but at least he had a vision!!!!

Kutaragi released 1 fantastic, developer friendly system that blew the competition out of the water(PS1). I would say he helped revolutionise the console market with that system and took console gaming out of hobbyism and into mainstream entertainment.

Of his other systems, the PS2 was unbalanced and a pain to develop for, but everyone basically sucked it up and had to stick with it because it completely dominated the market. The PSP was launched with him proclaiming the system as working as intended when the buttons were literally grinding the sides of the screen bevel to fit his intended form factor. The PS3 literally wiped any financial gains he had brought Sony off the books.

Not going to deny the evidences, but the man is/was truly a visionary. Some visionaries are prone to have huge falls from grace when companies let their madness run wild and unsupervised.

 

[Iacobellis]

This is the equivalent of defending George W Bush with "...but you could have a beer with the guy". Sure, Kutaragi blew the entire PlayStation line's profits and a huge amount of marketshare (while screwing around with an architecture that had to be bailed out last minute with an nvidia GPU to make it work)...but at least he had a vision!!!!

Kutaragi released 1 fantastic, developer friendly system that blew the competition out of the water(PS1). I would say he helped revolutionise the console market with that system and took console gaming out of hobbyism and into mainstream entertainment.

Of his other systems, the PS2 was unbalanced and a pain to develop for, but everyone basically sucked it up and had to stick with it because it completely dominated the market. The PSP was launched with him proclaiming the system as working as intended when the buttons were literally grinding the sides of the screen bevel to fit his intended form factor. The PS3 literally wiped any financial gains he had brought Sony off the books.

You realize without Ken there would be no PlayStation, and the SNES would have probably had a shitty audio chip.

 

[Insane Metal]

Here:

EDIT: wow beaten

Thank you both, but I'll get Kccitystar's one, it looks funnier!

 

[Mr_Appleby]

any thread involving the genius that is Mark Cerny is a great chance to post this video again

thankyou for this, that was a great watch.

 

[Eusis]

I just wish he could've gotten to do this with the PS3, then maybe we'd have at least PS3 BC on PS4. But Ken Kutaragi was still respected and needed a huge crash to be sobered up. I imagine it'd still have been an expensive system since I don't doubt Sony would've wanted to push blu-ray, but that was probably a good longterm decision just for having high hardware sales and thus more software sales anyway.

Not going to deny the evidences, but the man is/was truly a visionary. Some visionaries are prone to have huge falls from grace when companies let their madness run wild and unsupervised.

And frankly what he wanted wasn't really practical for the level of power we were getting. Doing some crazy convoluted thing that you could squeeze enormous power from in the 8-bit, 16-bit, or 32-bit days? It COULD possibly pay off, though even then it seemed the easier to develop for systems always were ahead (including the PS1, ironically enough.)

 

[Shosai]

What comes to mind is one of my favorite Kaz Hirai quotes. On the PS3:

"We don't provide the 'easy to program for' console that (developers) want, because 'easy to program for' means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is, what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?" explained Hirai.