-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
PS4 architect knew in 2007 that 'clearly we had some issues with PlayStation 3'
- Thread starter mocoworm
- Start date
SolarPowered
Member
This guy sounds awesome. I wish they had someone like him at Nintendo.
Sounds more like he had to cover up for Kutaragi's foibles.
Hazelhurst
Member
My god. Awesome vid. Thanks.
OldAsUrSock
Banned
AgentChris
Member
Ghost_Protocol
Member
And people were wondering why Kaz wasn't at the PS4 event. I bet he won't even be on stage at E3. I think Sony wants Cerny to be the man this time.
funkystudent
Member
I want more Cerny interviews. MORE!
shinobi602
Member
Hahaha holy shit, anyone else notice he almost said "Playstation 4"? XD
"Playstation ffff-threee"
Check it: http://youtu.be/DiboVZsXYXY?t=1h11m20s
2009 was year of the Playstation for me (Demon Soul's, Uncharted 2, InFamous, Killzone 2, R&C etc). 2010 was strong too though...in-fact, now that I think about it, so was 2011 lol. 2012 was the PS3's weakest year in a while, but 2013 looks to be rectifying that.
Kaz is now the head of entire Sony. Before he was head of SCE.
No one expects Steve Ballmer shows up and announce Xbox720 on e3, right?
ProfessorMoran
Member
Iacobellis
Junior Member
Shit, remember how Cell was supposed to be some revolutionary chip that would be in TVs?
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
I gotta say, I really like this Cerny guy.
Lol I wouldn't be surprised if a few in here have shrines or photos of him in your homes.
Yeah, Cerny has done a good job if he is responsible for the PS4 hardware and he did a good job at the conference to, but he's no peter moor, he's more like a don mattrick but with more passion.
Yeah, Cerny has done a good job if he is responsible for the PS4 hardware and he did a good job at the conference to, but he's no peter moor, he's more like a don mattrick but with more passion.
There is an 4xSPU no PPU version, which is used on TVs.
Cerny is certainly no Don Mattrick and doesn't strive to be Peter Moore.
He is closer to Miyamoto with a more technical background and current emphasis.
Came for the article. Stayed for the reaction faces.
If there is no objection by anyone I think I know my next avatar
Sure, there you go:
Can I touch your right elbow? Maybe lick it?
To be fair the dude does some amazing reaction faces:
he needs to sleep
Callibretto
Member
he's making ps4 hardware, communicating with third party dev for input, and making his own game "Knack". I'm surprised he's still standing and coming to gdc.
1970 Chevelle SS
Neo Member
Define "super high bit mp3". Some people think 320kbps is overkill but if you listen to HD800's then i would assume 1000 kbps or more? Even with my Grados i can tell the sound difference between a wav file and flac.
Too much awesomeness on one table.
Penguins&PolarBears
Member
Wow he decided to use off the shelf PC parts and unified memory, why didn't anyone else ever think of that? The x86 processor? I wonder how he learned of this little known processor? LOL. This is just silly.
I believe Sony made the right decision given their loss of dominance, but the spin is hysterical. Sony didn't make PS3 by accident. The strategy was to create a highly customized architecture so that games would remain exclusive to Playstation and would be difficult to port to alternative platforms. Had PS3 dominated like PS2 it would have been an excellent strategy and kept many games off of PC/Xbox or at least heavily delayed after the PS3 release. Using off the shelf PC parts to remain in line with PC and Xbox next gen is a recognition that the strategy has failed and exclusives are unobtainable. At best PS4 is just another x86 box featuring ports from other x86 boxes, it will never be anything like PS2 using such common hardware.
Also please stop comparing this guy to Miyamoto, people living in the real world find this comparison insulting to their intelligence. I admire Cerny's insights and accomplishments, but keep them in check. It's like you're trying to compare Dave Grohl to John Lennon.
I believe Sony made the right decision given their loss of dominance, but the spin is hysterical. Sony didn't make PS3 by accident. The strategy was to create a highly customized architecture so that games would remain exclusive to Playstation and would be difficult to port to alternative platforms. Had PS3 dominated like PS2 it would have been an excellent strategy and kept many games off of PC/Xbox or at least heavily delayed after the PS3 release. Using off the shelf PC parts to remain in line with PC and Xbox next gen is a recognition that the strategy has failed and exclusives are unobtainable. At best PS4 is just another x86 box featuring ports from other x86 boxes, it will never be anything like PS2 using such common hardware.
Also please stop comparing this guy to Miyamoto, people living in the real world find this comparison insulting to their intelligence. I admire Cerny's insights and accomplishments, but keep them in check. It's like you're trying to compare Dave Grohl to John Lennon.
we are not worthy
What people find insulting is not up to you.
maverick40
Junior Member
Oh wow thanks for the link, will have to watch this fully. Mark cerny has a way with words, you just want to listen to what he has to say.
Whiteshirt
Member
What sort of music are you listening too? A lot of music is not produced particularly well so no matter what you do, it'll still sound like shit most of the time. You should be enjoying the music (and that doesn't need lossless audio) and not the hardware anyway.
Honestly speaking, I've dabbled in fairly high end loudspeakers, amplification, and sources and I've found that 320kbps is more than enough to get a happy medium between small filesize and good sound quality. Obviously lossless if you're archiving the source audio file but most people don't care about that.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Hope he presents at E3 and gets some sleep.
Pristine_Condition
Member
Wow. This was terrific. I wish the historical questions were arranged in more of a linear fashion instead of skipping around, but it's a pretty great Q&A anyway.
I knew he started young and was some sort of child prodigy, (after all, he created Marble Madness for Atari when he was barely 18,) but the part where he talks about trying to program a 3D D&D game with overhead combat in 1977 using a 3D projection rendering scheme he derived from trigometry when he was 12 years old was priceless.
I really like his character. He reminds me sooo much of this guy from the movie UHF:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toNsPh-pxgc
I'm really surprised at the bashing Ken Kutaragi is receiving here for the PS3.
Sure, from business / image PoV it wasn't wise to go with Cell, but the architecture was so far in the future that it's still relevant - as an idea - even today. It's telling that it is still impossible to emulate the Cell in software on current PCs or PS4. Cell is a vector processor, just like current compute-shaders in GPUs are becoming, so actually I wouldn't be surprised if it resurfaces somewhere again in few years. Just read the interviews with people like John Carmack or Tim Sweeney to see that they see a future where fixed-function hardware (like current GPUs) are ditched in favor of much more flexible designs. The drawback would be, that the devs would have to make basic stuff like drawing triangles and texturing them themselves, but on the other hand there would be much more freedom in how they could create geometry, texturing, effects, etc. Remember the old times when Quake2 or Unreal had 'software rendering' option available? In many cases the software results (volumetric smoke, colored lights, etc) were better than what could be achieved using then-available gfx cards, because in software you could do anything, while with hardware you're limited to options given to you by the driver/api (eg. DirectX) and the card.
Ken's vision was exactly that, but it proved to be too challenging for most of the dev teams (even some 1st party ones), which simply could achieve the same results with much less effort on X360 or PC. But some positives remained - in recent years we've seen numerous devs (Dice, Irrational, Criterion to name just the top few) employing multi-threaded / job pipelines designed for PS3's parallel Cell/SPUs, which - turns out - were also hugely beneficial to performance on PCs and X360. So, in that sense not all of Ken's work was wasted. Simply, the timing was wrong
Sure, from business / image PoV it wasn't wise to go with Cell, but the architecture was so far in the future that it's still relevant - as an idea - even today. It's telling that it is still impossible to emulate the Cell in software on current PCs or PS4. Cell is a vector processor, just like current compute-shaders in GPUs are becoming, so actually I wouldn't be surprised if it resurfaces somewhere again in few years. Just read the interviews with people like John Carmack or Tim Sweeney to see that they see a future where fixed-function hardware (like current GPUs) are ditched in favor of much more flexible designs. The drawback would be, that the devs would have to make basic stuff like drawing triangles and texturing them themselves, but on the other hand there would be much more freedom in how they could create geometry, texturing, effects, etc. Remember the old times when Quake2 or Unreal had 'software rendering' option available? In many cases the software results (volumetric smoke, colored lights, etc) were better than what could be achieved using then-available gfx cards, because in software you could do anything, while with hardware you're limited to options given to you by the driver/api (eg. DirectX) and the card.
Ken's vision was exactly that, but it proved to be too challenging for most of the dev teams (even some 1st party ones), which simply could achieve the same results with much less effort on X360 or PC. But some positives remained - in recent years we've seen numerous devs (Dice, Irrational, Criterion to name just the top few) employing multi-threaded / job pipelines designed for PS3's parallel Cell/SPUs, which - turns out - were also hugely beneficial to performance on PCs and X360. So, in that sense not all of Ken's work was wasted. Simply, the timing was wrong
In that game changers video he actually relates a tale from earlier in his career when he pulled multiple all-nighters in a row...and ended up in the ER.
So I hope he is getting more sleep these days
In that game changers video he actually relates a tale from earlier in his career when he pulled multiple all-nighters in a row...and ended up in the ER.
So I hope he is getting more sleep these days
He's also nearly 50, looks pretty good to me.
flipswitch
Member
Have a Nice Day
Member
no female individuals are working on the PS4
Oh you guys
pslayer666
Member
Absolutely. But most people here aren't into computer architecture, so they just see Cell as an expensive failure. That's an understandable perspective, but really doesn't do the vision and foresight of the architecture justice.
This is a good analogy, since I prefer the former in both cases
Alx
Member
But the industry isn't about selling ideas and architectures, it's about selling products. If Kutaragi was visionary and too early, it's just as bad as if he was too late. The timing was wrong indeed, but timing is essential when creating a product that people would buy. If you choose a technology that isn't ready yet for your market (because it's expensive, or unreliable, or the users aren't ready,...), it's your responsibility if it fails to sell or fulfill its tasks.
Most tech-savvy people know about the technologies of tomorrow. The difficult part is choosing the right moment to bring them to market. Inertial sensors have existed for years, but Nintendo had to wait for the right moment to succeed with the Wii ; just like they failed with the Virtual Boy because it was "too visionary", and now the time seems right for the Oculus Rift.
True, but it's very rare for brilliant inventors / thinkers to combine this skill with marketing feel. Also, I'm thinking, whether it's simply not a case of trial & error - I'm sure you can't point to single person / company who's on a continuous basis introducing innovative and economically successful products? It's as much about luck, as it is about skills.
Oh, and coming back to topic at hand - I though it's obvious why Mark Cerny was picked to architect the PS4 when I heard Andrew House announcing him. He pronounced "Cerny" with silent 'r', which sounded a lot like 'Sony'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RiNGZMx2vhY#t=675s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RiNGZMx2vhY#t=675s
I'm really surprised at the bashing Ken Kutaragi is receiving here for the PS3.
Sure, from business / image PoV it wasn't wise to go with Cell, but the architecture was so far in the future that it's still relevant - as an idea - even today. It's telling that it is still impossible to emulate the Cell in software on current PCs or PS4. Cell is a vector processor, just like current compute-shaders in GPUs are becoming, so actually I wouldn't be surprised if it resurfaces somewhere again in few years. Just read the interviews with people like John Carmack or Tim Sweeney to see that they see a future where fixed-function hardware (like current GPUs) are ditched in favor of much more flexible designs. The drawback would be, that the devs would have to make basic stuff like drawing triangles and texturing them themselves, but on the other hand there would be much more freedom in how they could create geometry, texturing, effects, etc. Remember the old times when Quake2 or Unreal had 'software rendering' option available? In many cases the software results (volumetric smoke, colored lights, etc) were better than what could be achieved using then-available gfx cards, because in software you could do anything, while with hardware you're limited to options given to you by the driver/api (eg. DirectX) and the card.
Ken's vision was exactly that, but it proved to be too challenging for most of the dev teams (even some 1st party ones), which simply could achieve the same results with much less effort on X360 or PC. But some positives remained - in recent years we've seen numerous devs (Dice, Irrational, Criterion to name just the top few) employing multi-threaded / job pipelines designed for PS3's parallel Cell/SPUs, which - turns out - were also hugely beneficial to performance on PCs and X360. So, in that sense not all of Ken's work was wasted. Simply, the timing was wrong
I wonder if the PS4 still allows for some level of Cell-like processing/programming or even flexibility
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-inside-playstation-4
That's one hell of a false post.
Nobody's saying he's as great as Miyamoto. Just that he's closer to a Miyamoto than a Peter Moore or Mattrick.
painful fart
Member
You don´t stop playing because you get old, you get old when you stop playing.
That's how it works.
Thanks for posting this again. I am finally watching it after putting it on my watch later list.
For what he was doing at 12 blows my mind. As much as I love technology I didn't get to touch a computer until I was in 7th or 8th grade and access was only in school and was rare. I didn't have my own machine (or even regular access to one) until I was in high-school around '99 and FINALLY got into learning how to program with html, pascal, animation, etc. I really wish I could have started earlier.
Similar threads
- Poll