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Putting the Ly into Polygon, Crecente: "Oh, that I saw"

Haunted

Member
Twitter is perfect for people of Gies' temperament. Instead of having to create their own strawmen, they have an endless supply of people who will volunteer for the position who they can then highlight to their followers - "See, this is the kind of person who doesn't agree with my position!"
Too bad it's so transparent.

The follower who nods to himself thinking "yeah Arthur, you go!" along with that strawman argument is the kind of person who would just swallow anything fed to him anyway. You don't need to convince that kind of guy.


In the end, I guess the selective re-tweeting is just Gies trying to convince himself.
 

Duallusion

Member
Somebody needs to take them aside and 'correct' them.

cinemagraph-shining5.gif
 

Tomat

Wanna hear a good joke? Waste your time helping me! LOL!
We're approaching a Dyack event, I think.
This makes NeoGAF sound like some goofed up version of Reboot where you have giant Denis Dyack faces instead of the purple game cubes.
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
I get what you're going for but Crecente's Kotaku was rarely "shady", more just incompetent/clueless

But there was that clearly moneyhatted review he did for eegra.com?

Also I love the idea of classifying these sorts of things as a Dyack-Level-Event.

Anyway, I don't think Crecente utterly plagiarised this interview, I just think he must have seen all the RPS stuff and contacted Azzer independently (the "we saw him on Reddit!" excuse) to... say the exact same stuff again, and report it as new news. Then a little hair flip and moustache twirl with "Oh that I saw" and "I scanned it" is where Mr Crecente's world class lying ability plays its part.
 
You know, there was a period of time as a writer where I posted a series of inane, naive crap that only embarrassed me and everyone around me. What did I do in response?

I went on hiatus.

Far be it from me to judge my peers, nor ask them to perform an act of redemption which was, in hindsight, overt, but this is getting ridiculous. Someone needs to do something. I don't know who or what, but someone and something.
 

Septimius

Junior Member
I usually just hide in the shadows--sniffing glue and thinking of new ways to take on Reginald Heuwurth, CPA--but this post, and its ilk, has pushed me to comment.

With my copious amount of free time, I’m usually wont to read every post of a thread, followed by pressing half-cooked pancakes to my bare chest… the goopy, puss-like pancake batter burning straight to my heart. It is literally the only way I can feel alive any more…

*sigh*

The universe.

Where was I?

Having read every post and considering every point and counterpoint, I think I have some advice for those of you in here who want to improve what is going on at Polyglotnal… Pimpernalgynal… Po-po-po-poooo… the interactive entertainment criticism teepee. Instead of getting too deep into this forum/twitter echo chamber, why not write to some people who will listen to interested, involved readers that are polite and articulate in their complaints? No, no—I’m not talking about writing to Waylon Jennings. He’s dead.

Writing to the executives at Vox Media (or any other company that has a lack of the professionalisms) and pointing out what is going on with some of their employees, in a very public place on the internet, will get some attention. Claiming that your views don’t represent the company while using the company's identity to represent yourself is not some wicked force field. Force fields are wicked on their own.

Anyway, the reason you do this--instead of starting at the EIC--is that the EIC at many of these “publications” is akin to a clueless manager at a PayLess ShoeSource. His employees are yelling “F-off, you dimpsy nerdburgers!” at customers, and he just tells them to quiet down because he can’t concentrate on sexting his girlfriend in Quebec. Shoes are called “chaussures” in French Canada, you know.

If you write something like “Dear Mr./Mrs./Ms./Hyperion, I would like to bring to your attention some unprofessional behavior by your employees. I only have a month to live! Send rice. Godspeed!” these suits will likely take note, and at most—take ACTION. Not Schwarzenegger “Get to da choppa!” high action, but some action that will hopefully brush these guys back from the edge and plop them into whichever reality cashes their paychecks. Don’t demand anyone be fired. Don’t urge everyone to Wang Chung tonight. Just point out that this unprofessional behavior might be hurting their brand. Excluding governments, this method will often get someone’s attention.

That’s it really. I know my reply is long, but I have been sliding around in the dark corners for soooo long. And the pancakes, man... they don’t understand my needs.

Thanks for the entertaining threads!

Hey, Don Johnson! I’m looking for a heartbeat, too, buddy!

Hahaha, best post I've read in a good while.
 

choodi

Banned
You know, there was a period of time as a writer where I posted a series of inane, naive crap that only embarrassed me and everyone around me. What did I do in response?

I went on hiatus.

Far be it from me to judge my peers, nor ask them to perform an act of redemption which was, in hindsight, overt, but this is getting ridiculous. Someone needs to do something. I don't know who or what, but someone and something.

Being able to recognise when you are embarrassing yourself requires some sort of self respect and an ability to self reflect and be humble.

None of these things are a requirement for being a gaming "journalist" and all of these traits are actually counterproductive to achieving the level of shitty journalism thatwe are being shovelled up.
 

Zaph

Member
XgS98L1.png


FtEIouv.png


These two tweets, combined, are really quite sad. John was fully prepared to take Brian's word for it, thank him for the RPS credit on the Polygon article and put the issue to bed (even defending Polygon with multiple "they didn't plagiarise" tweets), but alas, Brian has the ethics of a tabloid reporter.
 

Septimius

Junior Member
XgS98L1.png


FtEIouv.png


These two tweets, combined, are really quite sad. John was fully prepared to take Brian's word for it, thank him for the RPS credit on the Polygon article and put the issue to bed (even defending Polygon with multiple "they didn't plagiarise" tweets), but alas, Brian has the ethics of a tabloid reporter.

Haha, wait, they ended up not crediting them after all? What the fuck? Are they trying to perform collective suicide?
 

DaBuddaDa

Member
Haha, wait, they ended up not crediting them after all? What the fuck? Are they trying to perform collective suicide?

Polygon did edit in link to the RPS story. The issue is Cresente bald face lied to him about whether or not he had previously seen the RPS story before publishing his.
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
When keeping it real goes wrong.

Silly haunted, this isn't kentpaul!

Septimus said:
Haha, wait, they ended up not crediting them after all? What the fuck? Are they trying to perform collective suicide?

No, IIRC they did. It's just Walker's seen "DetectiveGAF"/this thread go through and say "yeah... no."
 

Empty

Member
why should the industry's best credit a tiny little blog in the uk that no-ones heard of anyway, how big is their graphic design budget, how many hours of documentary have they had made about them. if anything they should be proud to write something good enough to appear on polgyon, it speaks to their humility and character that they were kind enough to edit in a credit.
 

Veezy

que?
I usually just hide in the shadows--sniffing glue and thinking of new ways to take on Reginald Heuwurth, CPA--but this post, and its ilk, has pushed me to comment.

With my copious amount of free time, I’m usually wont to read every post of a thread, followed by pressing half-cooked pancakes to my bare chest… the goopy, puss-like pancake batter burning straight to my heart. It is literally the only way I can feel alive any more…

*sigh*

The universe.

Where was I?

Having read every post and considering every point and counterpoint, I think I have some advice for those of you in here who want to improve what is going on at Polyglotnal… Pimpernalgynal… Po-po-po-poooo… the interactive entertainment criticism teepee. Instead of getting too deep into this forum/twitter echo chamber, why not write to some people who will listen to interested, involved readers that are polite and articulate in their complaints? No, no—I’m not talking about writing to Waylon Jennings. He’s dead.

Writing to the executives at Vox Media (or any other company that has a lack of the professionalisms) and pointing out what is going on with some of their employees, in a very public place on the internet, will get some attention. Claiming that your views don’t represent the company while using the company's identity to represent yourself is not some wicked force field. Force fields are wicked on their own.

Anyway, the reason you do this--instead of starting at the EIC--is that the EIC at many of these “publications” is akin to a clueless manager at a PayLess ShoeSource. His employees are yelling “F-off, you dimpsy nerdburgers!” at customers, and he just tells them to quiet down because he can’t concentrate on sexting his girlfriend in Quebec. Shoes are called “chaussures” in French Canada, you know.

If you write something like “Dear Mr./Mrs./Ms./Hyperion, I would like to bring to your attention some unprofessional behavior by your employees. I only have a month to live! Send rice. Godspeed!” these suits will likely take note, and at most—take ACTION. Not Schwarzenegger “Get to da choppa!” high action, but some action that will hopefully brush these guys back from the edge and plop them into whichever reality cashes their paychecks. Don’t demand anyone be fired. Don’t urge everyone to Wang Chung tonight. Just point out that this unprofessional behavior might be hurting their brand. Excluding governments, this method will often get someone’s attention.

That’s it really. I know my reply is long, but I have been sliding around in the dark corners for soooo long. And the pancakes, man... they don’t understand my needs.

Thanks for the entertaining threads!

Hey, Don Johnson! I’m looking for a heartbeat, too, buddy!

10/10 I would have made a comment about pressing the pancakes to your chest while maintaining a full erection, but that's just me.
 

Gattsu25

Banned
A summary of the Walker / Crecente stuff for those who hate or cannot read Twitter.

9th March

12th March
  • Kotaku discovered the ability to play SimCity offline for 19 minutes.
  • John Walker of RockPaperShotgun originally broke the story citing a Maxis insider who said the EA servers don’t really do anything: "The servers are not handling any of the computation done to simulate the city you are playing. They are still acting as servers, doing some amount of computation to route messages of various types between both players and cities. As well, they’re doing cloud storage of save games, interfacing with Origin, and all of that. But for the game itself? No, they’re not doing anything." Eurogamer, GameSpot, Kotaku and others ran with the story.

13th March

14th March

16th March
  • Walker posted an interview with Azzer who confirmed the claims of the Maxis insider: "The SimCity servers are not doing any calculations that could not be done on your PC, even for an entire region single player offline mode, let alone just the city you are in...All the server sends to your client, is some very basic data about each city...they are trying to handle all of the saving server side ("the cloud") which is bogging them down constantly."

17th March
  • Brian Crecente of Polygon posted a link to the RPS interview and said he was in the process of reading the interview and Azzer’s YouTube notes. He then sent both EA and Azzer questions based on the RPS findings.

19th March
  • Crecente posted an interview with Azzer who confirmed the claims of the Maxis insider: "It's not possible that EA servers are 'offloading' calculations (simulations) for your city, which it works out, and then sends to your client… Not at all. Your client simulates your city, and your client simulates all of the 'fire trucks from another city' type stuff too. Your client does that all. EA servers do not do any processing that your client is incapable of because our 'computers aren't powerful enough." The articles were kinda similar.
  • In a number of deleted comments Crecente said the original source of the story was the Lucy Bradshaw interview from a week and a half ago despite posting no original article in the meantime. He also said this story was entirely original and took 3 days of fact-finding to prepare.
  • Crecente said he had no knowledge of either RPS article and the source of the story was actually the Reddit post, not RPS, but that "I'll have to go check them out" and Walker was "doing good work".
  • When shown the article that originally broke the story – the one from the 12th – he said "oh, that I saw" but maintained Reddit as the source, not the story from the 16th which he didn't see. He said he started working on his story on Sunday, the day after RPS posted it and the day he read it.
  • All comments on the Polygon article either citing RPS as the source of the story or criticising Gies for attempting to discredit the RPS story that Polygon were now running were deleted. Polygon then added a link at the bottom of their story to the one from RPS on the 16th.
  • Folk on Twitter accused Crecente of plagiarism. Walker defended him.
  • After things calmed down Crecente maintained he didn’t lie. When shown his link to the RPS story he said he "only scanned it", but it inspired him to contact Azzer.
  • Walker has since been made aware of the tweets and various posts on GAF and responded to Crecente by saying "Brian, you lied at long and painful length, making me look like a fool. I'm too angry to discuss this tonight."

tl;dr: RPS posted everything first, Polygon rubbished it, Crecente saw the story and posted the same story with the same interview with the same source 3 days later, lied about the original source of the story and never seeing the RPS articles, was found out, kept lying, was found out again, changed his story, was found out again and changed his story again.
This should be posted at the top of the OP
 
I am a 30 something, lifelong gamer. I read up on gaming news every single day, multiple times a day.

All this thread has made me do is want to check up on Polygon's website. I'd never been there before. I may have seen a reference to it in passing but hardly cared.

And now I am curious.

As they say, bad publicity is still good publicity.

Not defending them, I just find that funny.
 

FryHole

Member
I am a 30 something, lifelong gamer. I read up on gaming news every single day, multiple times a day.

All this thread has made me do is want to check up on Polygon's website. I'd never been there before. I may have seen a reference to it in passing but hardly cared.

And now I am curious.

As they say, bad publicity is still good publicity.

Not defending them, I just find that funny.

Also 30 something, lifelong gamer, reading gaming news every day, multiple times a day.

Occasionally popped by Polygon to read a review or if someone linked to something interesting. Won't bother any more.

We cancel each other out!
 
Good to see that Polygon maintains the exact same journalistic standards as old Kotaku: have no integrity, lie/deny when called out, delete all dissenting opinion from site. I always figured that was Crescente. Glad to see I wasn't wrong.

The guy is an embarrassment.
 
I am a 30 something, lifelong gamer. I read up on gaming news every single day, multiple times a day.

All this thread has made me do is want to check up on Polygon's website. I'd never been there before. I may have seen a reference to it in passing but hardly cared.

And now I am curious.

As they say, bad publicity is still good publicity.

Not defending them, I just find that funny.

As long as you only scan it.
 
Because of this I just watched the Polygon Doco trailer. Holy shit what an embarrassing load of pretentious wank.

Sorry guys, your jobs are becoming less relevant, not more.
 
Good to see that Polygon maintains the exact same journalistic standards as old Kotaku: have no integrity, lie/deny when called out, delete all dissenting opinion from site. I always figured that was Crescente. Glad to see I wasn't wrong.

The guy is an embarrassment.

Oh yeah! Something I always forget about Oldtaku, Soviet level censorship in their comments section.
 

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
Where did DeadlyCyclone go? Must have gotten his memory back.

Huh? People need to read my posts if they think I'm 100% backing anyone. I just like their feature stories. The Sim City review thing is a mess and this new Crecente thing is interesting to say the least.

Twitter is working against Polygon. They need a PR department. Or a filter.
 
And that's games "journalism" everybody!

Not saying that there can't be legitimate journalism about games, but we'd be lucky to get one or two a year of that "quality".
 
Huh? People need to read my posts if they think I'm 100% backing anyone. I just like their feature stories. The Sim City review thing is a mess and this new Crecente thing is interesting to say the least.

Twitter is working against Polygon. They need a PR department. Or a filter.

It's okay, Gies selectively choosing to delete or ignore critical tweets is a filter enough.
 

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
I skipped a few and got bored of searching as of your posts from three days ago or so.

Wow, someone got bored. As you can see by my posts I enjoy some of their content but was questioning whether sites should knock of review points for issues that come to light after they review. Is that wrong to question? Maybe the way I posted it seemed in Polygon's defense, but I'm really up in the air on the issue. Should they have waited to review the game? Should any game with a form of multiplayer have the review delayed until after the game launches? That was my question.
 

Septimius

Junior Member
Wow, someone got bored. As you can see by my posts I enjoy some of their content but was questioning whether sites should knock of review points for issues that come to light after they review. Is that wrong to question? Maybe the way I posted it seemed in Polygon's defense, but I'm really up in the air on the issue. Should they have waited to review the game? Should any game with a form of multiplayer have the review delayed until after the game launches? That was my question.

No, you were caught in undermining how much you're defending them. Redefining the only part you haven't been caught in being wrong about yet as the important aspect of your argument - leave that to Gies. That's what he does.
 

RotBot

Member
Also 30 something, lifelong gamer, reading gaming news every day, multiple times a day.

Occasionally popped by Polygon to read a review or if someone linked to something interesting. Won't bother any more.

We cancel each other out!

I'll still read the features, since polygon mostly pays well-regarded freelancers or features staff who are separate from the "personalities" in the news/reviews/previews section to write them. I like that they go in-depth with stuff that doesn't get a lot of coverage. The rest of the site I ignored in the past, and will continue to ignore in the future.
 
I'll still read the features, since polygon mostly pays well-regarded freelancers or features staff who are separate from the "personalities" in the news/reviews/previews section to write them. I like that they go in-depth with stuff that doesn't get a lot of coverage. The rest of the site I ignored in the past, and will continue to ignore in the future.

But will continue to support with page views.


Cut em out completely.
 

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
No, you were caught in undermining how much you're defending them. Redefining the only part you haven't been caught in being wrong about yet as the important aspect of your argument - leave that to Gies. That's what he does.

I guess I don't know what you want me to say. Did I ever say the stuff Arthur said was fine? Did I say the Crecente stuff was no big deal? Not that I recall. Arthur generally is very blunt and occasionally goes overboard on Twitter. No surprise that it happened again.

My posts do make it seem like I'm a bit more pro Polygon, but that's because the stuff I read of theirs is good. Thing is, I mainly read their features and a few news articles here and there. Don't take me playing Devil's advocate as me saying they do no evil, that's not true. I know people hate the "Gaf = hivemind" thing, but it's been mentioned by more than just me that once something is hated on this forum, it becomes a dogpile. Not that it isn't always warranted.

I apologize if it came across that way, but it does help to look at this from the other perspective as well. I just don't get some people acting like my posts were that far out of discussion. From my point of view that's what I saw, I saw Polygon talking trash on Twitter and I saw a handful of people on Gaf beginning the "ban Polygon" crusade as opposed to discussing the issue.

I do apologize if my posts came across in a way that was somehow "wrong" or too defensive of Polygon. I just don't tend to rush to burn something down that I have enjoyed in the past without really solid reasoning. This thread is providing more though, at the time it was one Sim City review that people were calling for Polygon bans for. I just get the feeling that it's not okay for me to like some of Polygon's stuff here anymore, and now I'm being called out for it, which isn't entirely fair. People still read Kotaku even though a lot of people here hate them, and so-on.

Devils advocate means you don't actually support the position you're taking.
I never really took a "side." I said I enjoy Polygon and mentioned their features a few times. Never did I say Polygon was 100% right during the Sim City thing, nor have I even really commented on this new Crecente thing. If you look at those posts he highlighted in a few I was asking a serious question of whether reviews should be held until after launch for games with online components, but I think people took that as me backing Polygon because of my earlier "I enjoy Polygon" statement. I was actually curious on the review issue. Oh well.
 

RionaaM

Unconfirmed Member
A summary of the Walker / Crecente stuff for those who hate or cannot read Twitter.

9th March

12th March
  • Kotaku discovered the ability to play SimCity offline for 19 minutes.
  • John Walker of RockPaperShotgun originally broke the story citing a Maxis insider who said the EA servers don’t really do anything: "The servers are not handling any of the computation done to simulate the city you are playing. They are still acting as servers, doing some amount of computation to route messages of various types between both players and cities. As well, they’re doing cloud storage of save games, interfacing with Origin, and all of that. But for the game itself? No, they’re not doing anything." Eurogamer, GameSpot, Kotaku and others ran with the story.

13th March

14th March

16th March
  • Walker posted an interview with Azzer who confirmed the claims of the Maxis insider: "The SimCity servers are not doing any calculations that could not be done on your PC, even for an entire region single player offline mode, let alone just the city you are in...All the server sends to your client, is some very basic data about each city...they are trying to handle all of the saving server side ("the cloud") which is bogging them down constantly."

17th March
  • Brian Crecente of Polygon posted a link to the RPS interview and said he was in the process of reading the interview and Azzer’s YouTube notes. He then sent both EA and Azzer questions based on the RPS findings.

19th March
  • Crecente posted an interview with Azzer who confirmed the claims of the Maxis insider: "It's not possible that EA servers are 'offloading' calculations (simulations) for your city, which it works out, and then sends to your client… Not at all. Your client simulates your city, and your client simulates all of the 'fire trucks from another city' type stuff too. Your client does that all. EA servers do not do any processing that your client is incapable of because our 'computers aren't powerful enough." The articles were kinda similar.
  • In a number of deleted comments Crecente said the original source of the story was the Lucy Bradshaw interview from a week and a half ago despite posting no original article in the meantime. He also said this story was entirely original and took 3 days of fact-finding to prepare.
  • Crecente said he had no knowledge of either RPS article and the source of the story was actually the Reddit post, not RPS, but that "I'll have to go check them out" and Walker was "doing good work".
  • When shown the article that originally broke the story – the one from the 12th – he said "oh, that I saw" but maintained Reddit as the source, not the story from the 16th which he didn't see. He said he started working on his story on Sunday, the day after RPS posted it and the day he read it.
  • All comments on the Polygon article either citing RPS as the source of the story or criticising Gies for attempting to discredit the RPS story that Polygon were now running were deleted. Polygon then added a link at the bottom of their story to the one from RPS on the 16th.
  • Folk on Twitter accused Crecente of plagiarism. Walker defended him.
  • After things calmed down Crecente maintained he didn’t lie. When shown his link to the RPS story he said he "only scanned it", but it inspired him to contact Azzer.
  • Walker has since been made aware of the tweets and various posts on GAF and responded to Crecente by saying "Brian, you lied at long and painful length, making me look like a fool. I'm too angry to discuss this tonight."

tl;dr: RPS posted everything first, Polygon rubbished it, Crecente saw the story and posted the same story with the same interview with the same source 3 days later, lied about the original source of the story and never seeing the RPS articles, was found out, kept lying, was found out again, changed his story, was found out again and changed his story again.
Thanks for the summary, it's very well explained and has all the relevant links. Kudos to you!
 
Funny how many Devils Advocates we got around here these days. Wasn't there someone like MetalMurphy or other who used the same excuse for their constant jumping in to defend EA and SimCity?

EDIT: Found it! It was MetalMurphy. What is it about this big EA-SimCity-Polygon clusterfuck that has brought out all these Devil's Advocates?
 

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
It's like anyone that likes Polygon is on trial here. I just wanted to discuss if reviews should be held on multiplayer games. I don't think I really ever said Polygon was 100% right or Gaf/other media were 100% right.

Just odd to see so many people seemingly upset with things I said when they weren't that outlandish. I like Polygon, they have good features. I'm sorry if I let that blind me to their other doings for a bit.

Sorry if you are/were offended by something I said. I apologize Gaf, I'll watch my words more in the future. Can I join back into the actual discussion now?
 
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