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[spazchicken]

I think he means that the quality was equal to a commercial product and was direct competition with something they would charge money for.

Plus it's their IP. He shouldn't have to justify it.

The game was great though. Glad I didn't miss out on it.

 

[linkboy]

Here's how I look at this whole situation.

We're getting an official remake of a game that sorely needed it, and we got a fan remake that had no business being as good as it ended up being.

We're the ultimate winner in all of this.

 

[Shredderi]

I don't blame them at all. AMR2 is fucking good. It's really well made and with it out there Nintendo can't afford half-ass (not like they're going to, their version looks good) their version. If one person could make something on the level of AMR2 then they gotta knock it out of the park with their actually funded team and I too would take out AMR2 out in order to avoid as much comparisons between the products as possible. Nintendo was just smart here. They saw a free product that was strong enough to compete with their own.

 

[HardRojo]

Pretty sure Nintendo actually did take action against a guy who drew a Pokemon doujin

And honestly it's tough to feel bad for anyone who tries to make fan games, even if free. By now everyone knows the companies don't like it and it'll always end the same way. You could've made something totally original instead, which is becoming more and more rare these days

Man I wonder how awkward those meetings to block Pokémon doujin were.
"So there's this... uhh... issue...with Pokémon"
"What is it? More people using the IP to promote events without seeing a dime?"
"Uhh... no, this is much, much worse"
*shows pics*

 

[MrCunningham]

The answer isn't wrong in a vacuum, anyone who tries to profit off of an ip they don't have the rights to should be shut down. As far as I know AM2R never made any effort to profit off of the project, neither through ads or donations.

It doesn't matter if the developers were making any money from AM2R. AM2R is still a recreation of an original Nintendo IP that is being given away for free without any consent from the original IP owner. Sure AM2R does make some changes from the original game, the map is altered and there are some newer gameplay elements, but it is still derivative of Metroid II that it is still a violation of Nintendo's copyrights.

It doesn't really matter if Nintendo took it down from the AM2R website, the game is still out there on the net for anyone to play and it is not hard to find.

 

[Blam]

more like, if the fangame is that good, they may as well go whole hog and make it their own thing instead of riding on the coattails of someone else's IP.

It's just dumb.

If it's good enough to be a rival then it's should just be an official product like what Sega did.

 

[Lionel Richie]

Some salty as fuck replies in this thread, it baffles me that people seem unaware you can still download and play this game like right now if you wanted.

 

[watershed]

It makes sense. Nintendo doesn't want people playing games with their IP outside of their control. in this case, it's not about the money AM2R isn't making, it's about the potential impact it would have on their own Metroid games. There's the money side and there's the creative side. Nintendo doesn't want fan developers setting the direction or expectation for the gameplay with their IP. They would never want AM2R to be the best 2d Metroid game of all time, for example.

 

[Opa-Pa]

Ah yes, threads on this topic are always lovely.

Pretty sure Nintendo actually did take action against a guy who drew a Pokemon doujin

And honestly it's tough to feel bad for anyone who tries to make fan games, even if free. By now everyone knows the companies don't like it and it'll always end the same way. You could've made something totally original instead, which is becoming more and more rare these days

Yeah it's crazy tough to feel bad, goddamn criminals, I'm telling you.

WTF man.

 

[Nairume]

It's just dumb.

If it's good enough to be a rival then it's should just be an official product like what Sega did.

When exactly did Sega do that?

 

[linkboy]

When exactly did Sega do that?

Christian Whitehead has handled the ports of the older Sonic games and his team is doing Sonic Mania.

 

[Blam]

When exactly did Sega do that?

Christian Whitehead has handled the ports of the older Sonic games and his team is doing Sonic Mania.

Also did a few fan games I believe.

 

[Toxi]

F2P games aren't commercial products?

LOL how is this even comparable?

AM2R is not a commercial product. I see why Nintendo shut it down after Samus Returns was revealed, but don't distort what it actually was. I'm just happy the game ended up (Mostly) finished before Nintendo shut it down.

 

[Nairume]

Christian Whitehead has handled the ports of the older Sonic games and his team is doing Sonic Mania.

There's a big difference between that and Sega legitimizing a fan game.

That was Sega seeing the work Whitehead was doing and hiring him to do something else, building up a professional relationship with them until Sega offered them a contract to make a new game.

The way you guys were talking, Sonic Mania was being confused as a fan game made by fans that was legitimized, rather than an official thing from the start made by people who had a professional relationship with Sega that just happened to have been fan game makers at one point

 

[linkboy]

There's a big difference between that and Sega legitimizing a fan game.

That was Sega seeing the work Whitehead was doing and hiring him to do something else, building up a professional relationship with them until Sega offered them a contract to make a new game.

This is what a lot of people wish that Nintendo would have done with AM2R. Work with DoctorM64 to port the game.

 

[roknin]

"They used our IP without permission. Fuck 'em. Any other questions, Austin?"

I mean, to be completely honest, that's about all they really have to say lol.

 

[James Scott]

With Samus Returns being in the works it's pretty obvious why they took it down.
Pretty hard to argue against it. Even if it's free it's still damaging their IP. Seen a couple people say "no way it'll be as good" "it's going to be compared heavily" "why buy it when I have AM2R"

There's a big difference between that and Sega legitimizing a fan game.

That was Sega seeing the work Whitehead was doing and hiring him to do something else, building up a professional relationship with them until Sega offered them a contract to make a new game.

The way you guys were talking, Sonic Mania was being confused as a fan game made by fans that was legitimized, rather than an official thing from the start made by people who had a professional relationship with Sega that just happened to have been fan game makers at one point

Don't think it's wise to encourage more fan game devs to work. "Maybe I'll get a job with Nintendo".
The issue with the SEGA comparison is that they're not trying to sell consoles so their IP being widely available anywhere means nothing.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

If Nintendo's own remake is so terrible that it can't compete with a remake made by one dude in his free time, that tells me more about Nintendo's effort than anything else tbh.

Yeah it's not like people like free stuff no matter the quality. We didn't see this with steam and mobile games for years now. And obviously everyone who has played AM2R will pay 40 bucks for a remake with the same story they already played a few months ago. For free. Yeah i can see that.

A free Metroid game is a free Metroid game and if even one person would no get Nintendos own remake because he already got his Metroid fix and doesn't want to spend 40 bucks for a remake of the same damn game then it's in Nintendos best commercial interest to not let that happen.
The quality of each of the games doesn't matter in this debate.

 

[Nairume]

This is what a lot of people wish that Nintendo would have done with AM2R. Work with DoctorM64 to port the game.

But, again, that's not even close to what Sega did with Taxman. And Sega is supposed to be the publisher that is cool with fan games.

 

[BY2K]

I guarantee you the boss fights will be better in Samus Returns, for one.

 

[mrk8885]

This reasoning is a bit suspect but I fully support nintendos right to shut down these types of projects.

Whether they shut it down BECAUSE they were making the 3DS game, or decided to make the 3DS game because of the positive response...completely irrelevant.

It's their IP.

 

[i-Jest]

Gotta protect the IP at all cost, even from fans that created something at high grade enough commercial quality that it might put your own into question. I just hope the Mother 4 guys are paying close attention to whats going on here. A mere change in name and visuals might not be enough to avoid a DMCA take down notice.

Austin went on to speculate that "commercial product," in this case, can only translate to "competition for OUR commercial product." AKA, Metroid: Samus Returns was in the works, and its commercial viability would have been challenged by the fan project. Weird phrasing dodge on Reggie's part, because, uh, that's not what "commercial" means, AFAIK...

https://twitter.com/austin_walker/st...45935683698689

Good ol Reggie. I like reading about this dude.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

This is what a lot of people wish that Nintendo would have done with AM2R. Work with DoctorM64 to port the game.

This was never going to happen. Nintendo would be crazy to let someone develop something using their IP with zero oversight. Same story with the Mother 3 translation and other fan-made stuff.

I honestly don't understand why insanely talented people continuously pursue this route of madness. Oh well, AM2R seems super cool and is still readily available, so that's neat.

 

[Ninja Dom]

With Samus Returns being in the works it's pretty obvious why they took it down.
Pretty hard to argue against it. Even if it's free it's still damaging their IP. Seen a couple people say "no way it'll be as good" "it's going to be compared heavily" "why buy it when I have AM2R"

This is the point that many people still don't understand!! I don't know if people are deliberately trying to ignore the potential damage AM2R could have made.

 

[Psxphile]

with apologies to the original artist.


Reg makes a good point, the existence of a free Metroid 2 remake makes it harder for them to sell their own. Of course, they allowed it to be completed before serving C&Ds so I don't know what they were thinking on that score.

I'd like to think that anyone who was been starved for Metroid content wouldn't pass up a chance to play both.

 

[Rymuth]

AM2R was amazing

I can see why it had them shook

 

[SporeCrawler]

"This dude made a better Metroid than us lazy fucks ever could so we couldn't accept that obviously "

Why didnt he call it Botraid Return of Bromad and made the character and enemies all new ? Oh wait its because he needed to steal others ideas

with apologies to the original artist.


Reg makes a good point, the existence of a free Metroid 2 remake makes it harder for them to sell their own. Of course, they allowed it to be completed before serving C&Ds so I don't know what they were thinking on that score.

I'd like to think that anyone who was been starved for Metroid content wouldn't pass up a chance to play both.

They have all the right in the world to shut it down if its a copyright and trademark infringement

 

[Majukun]

"that's bullshit" should have been the first and last post

 

[psychowave]

why are we assuming AM2R is better when Samus Returns won't even be out for another two months

 

[Toxi]

I guarantee you the boss fights will be better in Samus Returns, for one.

I liked the Torizo fight.

But yeah, Samus Returns definitely looks like it's nailing the boss fights; the Zeta Metroid felt like a Prime boss in 2D. Can't wait to see how they update the Queen.

 

[cuate]

it's a free remake of a commercial product. I can see why it got shut down.

 

[fireflame]

I find am2r more appealing than the metroid 2 remake that is coming. AM2R has sprites
and i prefer sprites over polygons when it comes about 2d.

 

[D.Lo]

I'd like to think that anyone who was been starved for Metroid content wouldn't pass up a chance to play both.

They're both versions of Metroid II though.

I recently decided not to play through Skyward Sword because there might be an HD release in the next year or so. I don't want to play through the same basic game twice in a relatively short period, I'd rather knock something else from my backlog.

Similarly (and I don't think I'm alone in this one) despite it being one of my favourite games, the announced Shadow of the Colossus remake, despite looking cool and very faithful to the spirit of the original, left me somewhat cold. Mostly because I just played through the HD version earlier in the year. Now I'll probably end up grabbing it cheap in a few years.

Sure, the fanatics will play both, I played through AM2R and will get SR day 1. But if even a single person skips it because they only recently played 'a version of Metroid II' then Nintendo has lost out because of what is essentially an illegal product. AM2R wasn't just a conceptual IP breach either, it included a lot of stolen assets too.

I really, really don't understand why people capable of making a good game do this to themselves. Strip the stolen stuff from it, make yourself a new character and now you have a cool product you can actually sell. But then I guess the IP infringement is the only thing that gets them attention in the first place.

 

[TwistedFreeze]

why are we assuming AM2R is better when Samus Returns won't even be out for another two months

That and the overall reception for Samus Returns has been positive. AM2R definitely wins out in terms of overall aesthetics, as it's using sprites whereas Samus Returns is trying to go for a more realistic look that would be better suited for something like the Switch as opposed to the limitations of the 3DS, but the verdict is still out on everything else

 

[The Spoony Hou]

I'm guessing when he says commercial product he means it looks so good that they could probably sell it. All the things Nintendo has been targeting with C&D's recently has been high quality stuff which could potentially serve as a replacement for actual Nintendo releases.

That's what I gather from it.

 

[Nico_D]

In my opinion whoever came up with / owns the IP, decides what can be done with it. It's their property. Games are just another art form - if someone copied books, like some has sometimes done, there wouldn't be a question whether it is illegal or not.

 

[IsntChrisL]

If Nintendo's own remake is so terrible that it can't compete with a remake made by one dude in his free time, that tells me more about Nintendo's effort than anything else tbh.

Supposedly it's very good. But if you just played through another remake of the same game within a year or two, you're less likely to feel the need to buy another version.

 

[cuate]

If Nintendo's own remake is so terrible that it can't compete with a remake made by one dude in his free time, that tells me more about Nintendo's effort than anything else tbh.

you haven't played it or read impressions about it, so maybe don't assume anything about it's quality.

 

[Mivey]

I would maybe clarify on the "kill" part. The game was finished and released. And it will never go away on the net.
The dev of AM2R might have added some nice stuff and polished it a bit more, but for all intends and purposes it's a complete game.
You just have to jump through some hoops to get it, but at least where I live it's not even illegal to do so. The game might have violated their IP, but you are not for starting some software on your PC.

 

[Sword Of Doom]

Nope, you don't understand copyright law.

Please enlighten me

Stop repeating this lie. I'm so tired of people touting out this outright falsehood.

You do not have to defend your IP, full stop. You have to defend your trademarks yes, not your IP. And even then you do not have to vigorously defend your trademark either.

Ive read about a case about a trademark that was not enforcement for a very long period of time. It was a sorority and they didn't lose their trademark, but the court ruled against them. Couldn't something similar happen with an IP?

 

[spelen]

From a business perspective I perfectly agree with the overall argument. Sadly it's just one of the many ways consumers lose to Corp.

 

[rekameohs]

At least they let it get finished and released before delivering the C&D. Things could've been a whole lot worse for the fans.

 

[Toxi]

I really, really don't understand why people capable of making a good game do this to themselves. Strip the stolen stuff from it, make yourself a new character and now you have a cool product you can actually sell. But then I guess the IP infringement is the only thing that gets them attention in the first place.

You do realize that when DoctorM64 started this whole thing, he barely even knew how to program?

AM2R was a hobby and a way for him to learn and exercise his skills as a programmer.

In my opinion whoever came up with / owns the IP, decides what can be done with it. It's their property.

There's some irony in saying this while using an avatar of a Disney character.

 

[marmoka]

What kind of excuse is that???

 

[RagnarokX]

with apologies to the original artist.


Reg makes a good point, the existence of a free Metroid 2 remake makes it harder for them to sell their own. Of course, they allowed it to be completed before serving C&Ds so I don't know what they were thinking on that score.

I'd like to think that anyone who was been starved for Metroid content wouldn't pass up a chance to play both.

 

[-Mutsukki-]

If Samus Returns is better or not than AM2R is not the point in the slightest, it's still a competing product using their IP. Makes no sense to just let that lying around when you have a team that has been working for a while now trying to bring the exact same product. Unless you somehow don't believe that Samus Returns has been in the works for a while like the devs said in which that case I may think you're paranoid?

Exactly

 

[Toxi]

The funny part is that DoctorM64 is excited about Samus Returns.

 

[D.Lo]

Very good lol

 

[Mister Wolf]

Exactly. You already see it in here with claims of "better than the 3DS remake" and "Nintendo scared".

 

[Panajev2001a]

I'm guessing when he says commercial product he means it looks so good that they could probably sell it. All the things Nintendo has been targeting with C&D's recently has been high quality stuff which could potentially serve as a replacement for actual Nintendo releases.

It would have been so so cheap to actually deal with the devs, help them do a quick Switch and/or 3DS port, and release it (the devs would have made good money even with a small cut), and give their own games more breathing room (filling their gaps better).