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[stupei]

whatever helps you sleep at night.

I dont see how environmentalism has any over lap with eating meat when the usage of water and natural resources to create meat far out ways that when you eat the same nutrition through plants.

When you have a balanced diet without added suffering, not doing so is morally dubious.
(If you live in a western 1st world country this is possible but it depends on each individual situation)

That said. Any reduction in consumption of animals is better for the planet and in almost all cases better for your diet as well.

But vegans in the west really need to consider the impact an imagined future utopia without any meat eating would have on other economies globally.

60% of sub-Saharan Africa's land is really only usable for raising livestock, for example. Of course the very real potential for human suffering as a result of the economic fluctuations that would inevitably come from removing meat from all diets is seldom what people are talking about when they say "suffering" is involved in our consumption of foods, but it's an important consideration.

From what we know, reduction of meat eating is better for the environment and the global economy rather than its elimination entirely. So good on vegans for taking a hit where some of us can't, but this idealized future some seem to have where no one is eating meat is not remotely sustainable now and might never be.

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

I think I may have worded that paragraph incorrectly because that's obviously not what I meant. The quote before was basically defining existence of such animals. And the person I quoted basically said that same line of thinking was used to justify the enslavement of African people; by placing them at the same level of animals. Now obviously that same argument should not apply in reverse(one thing that pissed me off was that people were trying to do this). Still, I feel uncomfortable in the idea that animals especially factory farmed only exist to satisfy humans

I think it's completey fair and justified to criticize shitty living conditions for farmed animals. Almost all animals have no real conception of history, future or past. They literally live in the moment, so if that moment is good, that's all that matters to them. They don't have future plans or grand designs, heck, a large portion of animals don't even make it past adolescence in the wild, but would you argue they shouldn't have lived at all? I'm not sure how you can argue a short, but good life wouldn't be worth living, especially if you have no concept of life and death. If we can meet that standard, there's really not much wrong with the idea of existing for the purpose of eventual slaughter unless you think just existing is cruel. Those pigs would have faced death some day eventually and it would have sucked either way, they don't care outside of the now.

 

[MogCakes]

Is it better to have lived and been consumed, than never to have lived at all?

Considering the conditions farm pigs live in, the answer to that question may be less black and white than you imagine. With the amount of demand for meat I don't see free range pig farming to be viable for big farms, but pigs have it pretty rough in the life department before being turned into meat products.

 

[Spuck-uk]

Why even rescue them if you clearly don't give a shit enough to not stuff their processed charred flesh in your mouth?
smh...

Because pigs are less delicious when overcooked in a barn fire, duh

 

[Mudcrab]

Why even rescue them if you clearly don't give a shit enough to not stuff their processed charred flesh in your mouth?
smh...

Mmmmmm processed charred flesh

 

[xrnzaaas]

Free sausages without any chemical crap, who could say no to that.

 

[Lightning Lord]

Only thing that sticks out to me is the irony of the fire fighters eating what they saved.

 

[Starviper]

Great job saving that bacon, firefighters.

 

[Preezy]

Only thing that sticks out to me is the irony of the fire fighters eating what they saved.

My mum said I don't understand irony. Which was ironic because I was actually at the bus stop when she said this.

 

[Jams775]

Considering the conditions farm pigs live in, the answer to that question may be less black and white than you imagine. With the amount of demand for meat I don't see free range pig farming to be viable for big farms, but pigs have it pretty rough in the life department before being turned into meat products.

What do you suppose a pig considers an good environment? It's not like pig #1 is going around thinking "man I wish it wasn't so loud so I can finish my book". They're probably going "eat eat eat, full, sleep, thing moving near, is threat? no, eat eat eat, shit eat, sleep". I doubt they're even thinking about what they're going to eat later. "Ohhh I hope we get corn gruel tomorrow!"

They need as much room as their health allows. There's no need for 1 acre per pig and if there was pigs wouldn't care.

So I really wonder, what's an actual happy environment for pigs and what is a happy environment people think pigs should have.

 

[Spuck-uk]

Not sure how anyone can eat pig they're as smart or smarter than dogs

They're delicious. Dogs, not so much.

 

[Doc_Drop]

My mum said I don't understand irony. Which was ironic because I was actually at the bus stop when she said this.

Audible chuckle from me with that one

 

[MogCakes]

What do you suppose a pig considers an good environment? It's not like pig #1 is going around thinking "man I wish it wasn't so loud so I can finish my book". They're probably going "eat eat eat, full, sleep, thing moving near, is threat? no, eat eat eat, shit eat, sleep". I doubt they're even thinking about what they're going to eat later. "Ohhh I hope we get corn gruel tomorrow!"

They need as much room as their health allows. There's no need for 1 acre per pig and if there was pigs wouldn't care.

So I really wonder, what's an actual happy environment for pigs and what is a happy environment people think pigs should have.

I would imagine a happy environment for them to be more along the lines of traditional farms than factory farming, which are the ones you see the giant cesspools outside of as the animals themselves aren't able to move anywhere to crap. From the sound of things in the article, the saved sausage pigs weren't in a factory condition, but we're off on a tangent here.

I also wouldn't presume to know the psychology/thought processes or behavior of pigs since I'm no expert. Do they really think and behave that way as you claim?

 

[Van Bur3n]

Bacon is the best kind of charred flesh, lemme tell ya, lemme tell ya.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

i had pork for lunch both today and yesterday

delicious

 

[Jams775]

I would imagine a happy environment for them to be more along the lines of traditional farms than factory farming, which are the ones you see the giant cesspools outside of as the animals themselves aren't able to move anywhere to crap. From the sound of things in the article, the saved sausage pigs weren't in a factory condition, but we're off on a tangent here.

I also wouldn't presume to know the psychology/thought processes or behavior of pigs since I'm no expert. Do they really think and behave that way as you claim?

I'm no expert either but I think it's safe to assume for now that any line of thinking that falls under abstract thought doesn't exist. So they probably run solely on their id right?They can recognize a thing as safe to be around and maybe even food source (i.e. friendly), but they don't know what a friend really is? There are studies being done right now that are showing plants to have those same instincts too. Which is why I think meat eaters don't consider it enough "intelligence" do consider being cruel to use as a food source.

It be amazing if a scientist studying pig intelligence could chime in.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

 

[Poppy]

why you discriminating against that one cat hydro

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

I would imagine a happy environment for them to be more along the lines of traditional farms than factory farming, which are the ones you see the giant cesspools outside of as the animals themselves aren't able to move anywhere to crap. From the sound of things in the article, the saved sausage pigs weren't in a factory condition, but we're off on a tangent here.

I also wouldn't presume to know the psychology/thought processes or behavior of pigs since I'm no expert. Do they really think and behave that way as you claim?

Pigs are much like young children. They only care about their current circumstance. If you want a bit of perspective, watch the movie Room. It's fiction, but largely holds up to a child's real appraisal of life. It's about a woman who is kidnapped and forced to live in a small shed for a decade raising a child she had while in captivity. She's miserable, but the kid really makes the best out of the situation. In fact, after she's freed, the kid has trouble adjusting to the open world and even longs to return to the small space as it was his whole world and he was happy.

The difference is, a pig will never grow up to want more. Everything is about meeting its needs in the moment, just like a toddler. It's always made me sad to think about, but when thinking of a very young child passing away there's some small comfort in the idea that they didn't even comprehend life beyond the moment anyway, so the loss is more on the side of the people left behind than the child.

 

[Doc_Drop]

why you discriminating against that one cat hydro

Kitten meat 😋

 

[MogCakes]

I'm no expert either but I think it's safe to assume for now that any line of thinking that falls under abstract thought doesn't exist. So they probably run solely on their id right?They can recognize a thing as safe to be around and maybe even food source (i.e. friendly), but they don't know what a friend really is? There are studies being done right now that are showing plants to have those same instincts too. Which is why I think meat eaters don't consider it enough "intelligence" do consider being cruel to use as a food source.

It be amazing if a scientist studying pig intelligence could chime in.

No matter their intelligence we'll keep eating them, pigs are a staple meat source for many people. I think factory farms offer them a miserable life from birth to slaughter - traditional farm pigs have it much better.

 

[Van Bur3n]

Well...how good does dog taste?

 

[Contica]

I'm no expert either but I think it's safe to assume for now that any line of thinking that falls under abstract thought doesn't exist. So they probably run solely on their id right?They can recognize a thing as safe to be around and maybe even food source (i.e. friendly), but they don't know what a friend really is? There are studies being done right now that are showing plants to have those same instincts too. Which is why I think meat eaters don't consider it enough "intelligence" do consider being cruel to use as a food source.

It be amazing if a scientist studying pig intelligence could chime in.

Studies have found pigs to have excellent long term memory. They have strong social bonds, and can learn from each other. They are smarter than dogs, and have cognitive skills that in certain cases rival highly intelligent primates, including young humans.

It's very easy to find a lot of reading material on this from a simple google search on pig intelligence. It's pretty interesting. As for living conditions, I'm pretty sure esther the wonder pig has no complaints.

 

[NoMoreTrolls]

This headline is a masterpiece. If only they mentioned that they smoked the sausages.

 

[Foxy the Fox]

This reminds me of this peruvian tradition to dress two guinea pigs as a groom and a bride, make a party out of it, sign the papers, make them dance and finally cook them in front of everyone so the guests can eat.

Is brutal and funny at the same time.

http://publimetro.pe/actualidad/noticia-insolita-boda-cuyes-cajamarca-63641?ref=ecr

 

[joe2187]

Ive never faced these type of militant vegans/vegetarians im real life but the never meater eaters are heavily prevelent on GAF.

 

[Surfinn]

Ive never faced these type of militant vegans/vegetarians im real life but the never meater eaters are heavily prevelent on GAF.

Most vegans and vegetarians don't fit the extreme stereotypes. I know, as a former vegan/current vegetarian.

GAF sometimes envisions all non meat eaters as crazed PETA assassins

It's pretty funny actually

 

[Aske]

Still, I feel uncomfortable in the idea that animals especially
factory farmed only exist to satisfy humans

The argument made me so uncomfortable I had to re-evaluate a few things. I personally don't have problems with people eating meat it is what it is, me personally though my mind is in conflict

This must have been mentioned earlier in the thread, but give it a decade, and the vast majority of meat will be grown in labs. I imagine some livestock will be reared and slaughtered as a delicacy for the wealthy, but these ethical issues won't be a factor when choosing whether or not to consume meat most of the time.

 

[HardRojo]

This reminds me of this peruvian tradition to dress two guinea pigs as a groom and a bride, make a party out of it, sign the papers, make them dance and finally cook them in front of everyone so the guests can eat.

Is brutal and funny at the same time.

http://publimetro.pe/actualidad/noticia-insolita-boda-cuyes-cajamarca-63641?ref=ecr

Do we really have such traditions? deep fried guinea pig is really tasty and everything, but I didn't know we had people uniting them in wedlock just to cook them afterwards lol.

 

[KHarvey16]

This must have been mentioned earlier in the thread, but give it a decade, and the vast majority of meat will be grown in labs. I imagine some livestock will be reared and slaughtered as a delicacy for the wealthy, but these ethical issues won't be a factor when choosing whether or not to consume meat most of the time.

Lol, a decade? Absolutely not.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

now i want to try eating guinea pig

 

[Foxy the Fox]

Do we really have such traditions? deep fried guinea pig is really tasty and everything, but I didn't know we had people uniting them in wedlock just to cook them afterwards lol.

Yeah, we got some messed up traditions with guinea pigs.

Like this one where an owner saved her guinea pig from sickness just to eat her at the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP83Tf1clE4

The first time I saw this couldn't breathe of laughter.

 

[Aske]

Most vegans and vegetarians don't fit the extreme stereotypes. I know, as a former vegan/current vegetarian.

GAF sometimes envisions all non meat eaters as crazed PETA assassins

It's pretty funny actually

You're right, but GAF has enough loud militant vegans to eclipse the reasonable augments. As unhelpful as the "bacon lol" posts are, nothing approaching the level of egregiousness displayed by militant vegans exists on the other side of the fence. Even if there are less of the former than the latter, one "meat eaters should die of cancer" or "we all deserve to die because we're an evil species" post is enough to steal all the focus.

Lol, a decade? Absolutely not.

Have they run into some issues I've not read about? Because it'll be cheaper, more efficient, and more environmentally friendly. When the switch happens, I think it'll happen fast. I'm prepared to be wrong. But would you disagree that lab-grown meat is the inevitable future?

 

[Quick]

At first, I was like "what the fuuuuuck"

But after reading the whole thing, I'm like "I want some bacon."

I initially thought they were slaughtered and cooked up immediately after being saved. That would've been kind of weird.

 

[Izayoi]

Chicharon is the GOAT snack.

 

[Quick]

Chicharon is the GOTY snack.

Bless.

 

[DeathyBoy]

This reminds me of this peruvian tradition to dress two guinea pigs as a groom and a bride, make a party out of it, sign the papers, make them dance and finally cook them in front of everyone so the guests can eat.

Is brutal and funny at the same time.

http://publimetro.pe/actualidad/noticia-insolita-boda-cuyes-cajamarca-63641?ref=ecr

What the fuck?

 

[KHarvey16]

Have they run into some issues I've not read about? Because it'll be cheaper, more efficient, and more environmentally friendly. When the switch happens, I think it'll happen fast. I'm prepared to be wrong. But would you disagree that lab-grown meat is the inevitable future?

Experiments and small batch or one off examples are one thing, but mass production with quality control and consistent results that also taste exactly like meat are another. And those are just the concerns with the process and product itself, never mind external factors like gigantic conglomerates who raise and sell meat, huge economic impacts and cultural considerations.

If lab grown meat ever does replace animal derived meat I'm pretty confident we won't live to see it.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

What do you have against that kitten three animals from the left?

 

[mantidor]

This reminds me of this peruvian tradition to dress two guinea pigs as a groom and a bride, make a party out of it, sign the papers, make them dance and finally cook them in front of everyone so the guests can eat.

Is brutal and funny at the same time.

http://publimetro.pe/actualidad/noticia-insolita-boda-cuyes-cajamarca-63641?ref=ecr

Giving that the headline says "inédita", meaning "first of its kind", I doubt its a tradition.

now i want to try eating guinea pig

It's quite good.


The morality argument is so disingenuous. The truth is, if you live in a city and don't have your own little farm in a corner of your apartment that is the exclusive source of your food, chances are you are contributing to animal suffering one way or another. Hell, its possible that just by living in a city and using its commodities is causing animal suffering even if you don't eat anything. The food industry at large has huge problems, but so is feeding the millions who live in cities and don't raise their own food.

 

[Rentahamster]

But vegans in the west really need to consider the impact an imagined future utopia without any meat eating would have on other economies globally.

60% of sub-Saharan Africa's land is really only usable for raising livestock, for example. Of course the very real potential for human suffering as a result of the economic fluctuations that would inevitably come from removing meat from all diets is seldom what people are talking about when they say "suffering" is involved in our consumption of foods, but it's an important consideration.

From what we know, reduction of meat eating is better for the environment and the global economy rather than its elimination entirely. So good on vegans for taking a hit where some of us can't, but this idealized future some seem to have where no one is eating meat is not remotely sustainable now and might never be.

Only? Not only. They can do other stuff too.

Increasing livestock production coupled with old and inefficient ranching practices is one of the leading causes of native habitat loss and wildlife endangerment.

 

[Samara]

Yeah, we got some messed up traditions with guinea pigs.

Like this one where an owner saved her guinea pig from sickness just to eat her at the end.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP83Tf1clE4

The first time I saw this couldn't breath of laughter.

The way the pig is set up on the potatoes slayed me. whew

 

[Night Angel]

Animals raised to be food are served as food.

A funny article, but not surprising or shocking in any way.

 

[Acidote]

Chicharon is the GOAT snack.

And when they're freshly made... I'm salivating right now just thinking about it.

 

[Principate]

What the fuck point was there in rescuing them then?! Christ!

Waste not want not

 

[Surfinn]

You're right, but GAF has enough loud militant vegans to eclipse the reasonable augments. As unhelpful as the "bacon lol" posts are, nothing approaching the level of egregiousness displayed by militant vegans exists on the other side of the fence. Even if there are less of the former than the latter, one "meat eaters should die of cancer" or "we all deserve to die because we're an evil species" post is enough to steal all the focus.

True, it only takes one post, but it's also important not to engage in confirmation bias because of preconceptions about vegans.

It's not much different from someone inside of a legitimate social justice organization doing something wrong or saying something bad and having the other side say SEE?

 

[JJD]

Perfectly normal.

 

[Mudcrab]

Chicharon is the GOAT snack.

Food of the gods

 

[mavo]

My grandmother this to my mother and her siblings, they had a pet pig when they were kids and when it died my grandmom cooked it.

She told them while they were just finishing it, what a wicked sense of humour lol.

 

[stupei]

Only? Not only. They can do other stuff too.

Increasing livestock production coupled with old and inefficient ranching practices is one of the leading causes of native habitat loss and wildlife endangerment.

I said "really only usable" because while irrigation is technically viable as a technique for raising crops in the Sub-Saharan drylands that make up 60% of that region, it comes with a considerable amount of risk and does not provide the economic return on investment that comes with raising livestock.

As I said, a reduction in the consumption of meat overall globally would be beneficial and, yes, even necessary because of course there are many parts of the world that are straining the resources available for livestock. But this idea that we might seriously consider absolutes that would remove livestock from the global economy entirely as some sort of inspirational ideal is just as naive as the assumption that we will be able to continue to sustain our consumption of meat at its current levels indefinitely.