NoMoreTrolls
Banned
Looks pretty good. Crafting system is nice, too. Waiting for the PC release is gonna be tough... I'll have to see how many games I pick up this November 
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Rise of the Tomb Raider Gameplay (Gamescom 2015)
- Thread starter Soultaker0220
- Start date
puebla
Member
The gunplay looks so satisfying. Can not wait for this gem.
Really like this gif for her animation.
These are mercs who may or may not be part of a cult. Either way, they seem to have taken some people captive and will shoot to kill if they see her. She's not running around LA shooting random people in the face, she's killing heavily armed enemy combatants who have demonstrated themselves to be violent and hostile.
Samurai G0SU
Member
That shit looks real on my phone. Lol
kamineko
Does his best thinking in the flying car
Yeah, plus backwards compatibility. I love my PS4 but MS is putting in work. Hoped to skip X1 this gen, may not be able to do it
Final Verdict
Member
I get the complaints about the enemies not being aware enough and unrealistic, but I recognize that if the enemies AI was totally realistic, then stealth kills would be almost impossible to do with any consistency whatsoever....
We need to remember that at the end of the day it is a video game, and some choices have to be made in favor of gameplay and fun even if they are unrealistic.
A good example of these sort of compromises is the fact that you can get shot, and recover after hiding in cover for a few seconds....In real life you would need to dig the bullet out, bandage the wound, and then wait weeks for it to completely heal up. But if they did that then it would make for crappy gameplay.
(so I say that to say this)
I think that not making the enemies over sensitive to player movement & having somewhat predictable reactions to you actions (such as throwing a glass bottle) is going to be a good thing for gameplay.
Thought I do hope that they will make the AI sensitivity scale a bit with the difficulty.
We need to remember that at the end of the day it is a video game, and some choices have to be made in favor of gameplay and fun even if they are unrealistic.
A good example of these sort of compromises is the fact that you can get shot, and recover after hiding in cover for a few seconds....In real life you would need to dig the bullet out, bandage the wound, and then wait weeks for it to completely heal up. But if they did that then it would make for crappy gameplay.
(so I say that to say this)
I think that not making the enemies over sensitive to player movement & having somewhat predictable reactions to you actions (such as throwing a glass bottle) is going to be a good thing for gameplay.
Thought I do hope that they will make the AI sensitivity scale a bit with the difficulty.
BLUElightCory
Member
I don't think this is right. Naughty Dog has said they modeled him after Johnny Knoxville and Harrison Ford. I know he grew up in South America but he's preeettttty white.
Larson Conway
Member
Looks amazing.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
While I know the emphasis was on the bow, do we have a technical reason for why Lara doesn't just scoop some of those brand-new looking guns the enemies have?
Obviously there's possibly explanations aka finger-print locks or what have you, but it feels a bit silly, especially with the pistol (and I'm pretty sure on the AR) eventually having a silencer in the reboot.
She eventually pulls out her own weapons, but...I dunno. Feels weird.
I mean, personally, I think there's a much better happy medium than what's being shown so far.
If a glass bottle gets thrown, yeah, the enemies kind of 'need' to move towards it, but Lara's literally in his peripheral vision as he turns, and he doesn't even react.
Obviously there's possibly explanations aka finger-print locks or what have you, but it feels a bit silly, especially with the pistol (and I'm pretty sure on the AR) eventually having a silencer in the reboot.
She eventually pulls out her own weapons, but...I dunno. Feels weird.
I mean, personally, I think there's a much better happy medium than what's being shown so far.
If a glass bottle gets thrown, yeah, the enemies kind of 'need' to move towards it, but Lara's literally in his peripheral vision as he turns, and he doesn't even react.
Cave Johnson
Member
Hey, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery
You what we call your statements? Strawmen. Nobody is saying TLOU invented anything but there's a difference between implementing a feature and directly presenting one from another game. Just because a feature has been done before doesn't mean it is applied the same across games. There is a big difference between having a jump feature in both Mario and PoP and having a "crafting" system in the manner TLOU and ROTTR. You don't need tunnel vision to see the point I'm trying to make.
rokkerkory
Member
Just watched it again in 1080p, looks amazing.
Is it 1080p on x1 by chance?
Is it 1080p on x1 by chance?
Amy Hennig said in a panel when asked that Drake is half Colombian half unknown.
I would assume so.
I'm not going to get into this debate too hugely because I haven't played the first games, but these two points are bullshit.
Mathias tried to pull the hypocrisy card on Lara because he's fucking batshit insane. He tries to say that they're the same because they both kill hundreds of people to 'survive'. In actuality, Lara kills only enemy combatants that are aggressors (atleast in her eyes, which also happen to coincide with reality, but we'll get to that in the second point). Mathias kills people to survive, on whims, and because of his fanaticism to Himiko. He had people routinely tortured, brainwashed, sacrificed, and more than once willingly sent out people to die because they were 'weak' in his eyes. They both cause significant amount of deaths, but trying to say they're operating on the same moral philosophy is laughable. And for the record, while I can't find the clip to verify this, I don't remember Lara claiming the moral high ground to Mathias. For the most part, she doesn't say anything to the guy after he reveals himself as the enemy. He just was like "OH, YOU THINK YOUR SO MUCH BETTER THAN ME HUH" without being prompted. Because he's fucking deranged.
As for the second point, I recall multiple conversations of varying origins, but none of them noble. Some are brainwashed that believe in the cause. Some are deliberately cruel psychopaths that enjoy being able to hurt how they like without believing in Mathias. Others aren't brainwashed and simply do what Mathias tells them because they survive better in a crew and mathias will kill them if they rebel and just want to go home. Which doesn't make them innocent, fyi. They talk about how they will shoot lara on sight just to get everything over with. It's true that Mathias abuses them due to his own vileness, but they still choose to go along with the murder and torture and sacrifices. And I don't recall any one that explicitly stated that they're regretful of the things they've done or anything. There is a singular instance where the thugs come down and saying they want to work with Lara, but for some reason start shooting. It's possible that this was a misfire from one of the soldiers, or maybe it was intended to be a trick all along. However, regardless of whether these guys are all being 'forced' somehow by one guy (I have no idea how Mathias would impose his commands if atleast the majority of his army wasn't willing to follow his commands), it doesn't change the fact that they are a danger to Lara. What are you suggesting she do? Give each of them a personal interview before she decides whether or not it's morally right to kill them? It's insane and unreasonable to expect that from her. Whether you think she secretly enjoys or not or whatever, the situation is that if she does not kill them, they will kill her. On sight, without hesitation, without being able to be reasoned with. Even if they are victims in a sense and doing just what lara does to survive, it doesn't change that she has a right to defend her own life and that it would be tantamount to suicide to go out and try to reason with them in hopes that they won't put a bullet in her skull the instant she lets her guard down.
Lastly, I want to point out as I did in my other post in the thread that Lara has conflicted feelings on the killing herself. On one hand, she is disturbed. On the other hand, she talks about how easy it's been to kill for her. To my understanding, she seems more disturbed at how undisturbed she is. It doesn't make her a psychopath, but it provides a good basis for why she is able to slaughter so many without feeling a large sense of remorse. She has good reason not to. Survival wise, remorse for killing an enemy is a bad thing, regardless of whether they deserve it or not. Survival simply registers whether the person is a threat to you, not whether they are good or bad. Pretty much none of Mathias' gang are implied to have been good. At best, they are not as evil as some of the other members and could do without the killing and torture, but are willing to commit it as of now. But people aren't rational and people with empathy are typically sickened by the deaths of other human beings, even if they didn't like them. Lara feels that to some extent, atleast early on, but that goes away fast, and her worry is specifically how fast and easy it goes away. How rational she can be about killing people just because they're 'bad'. She's taking this all too well and thats what freaks her the fuck out. Which is an interesting, if under explored, aspect of the story.
But it doesn't make her a psychopath, she never claimed the high ground, it doesn't mean she isn't in enormous danger in which she has to kill to survive, and it certainly doesn't mean she's murdering a bunch of guys who have nothing but the best intentions in mind for her. She has as much cause to plow through waves of enemies as any other game character.
Wow, that looks amazing. I don't see anything indicating that this is a cross gen game. But I wonder how the 360 version will look.
dragonelite
Member
It is, the dev confirmed it because NXGamer miscounted pixels in his analysis.
Understandable the game does kinda have a soft look to it.
N7Commander95
Member
Wow. Nailed it mate!
Well, first of all I never said that Lara and Mathias are on equal moral ground. I said that the game tried to present Lara as a justified mass murderer. I don't think her hands are as clean as the game wants her to be, and that's juxtaposed with with old Lara who didn't pretend she wasn't a killer.
Also, remember that Mathias' goal is everyone else's; he wants to get off the island. He's gone deranged, obviously, but his goal is to find a descendant of Himeko to complete the ritual so that Himeko will stop the storm and let him leave. If only he knew all you had to do was climb up to Himeko and stab her in the face. How did he even get up there?
I stopped and listened to every single conversation the NPCs had. There were several where the cult members were more afraid of Lara than anything, so obviously a lot of them were acting in defense. If they didn't kill her they'd be dead. There were people who expressed how much they wanted to get of the island and see their families. There was at least one guy who said that they shouldn't be doing what they were doing and he got shot by a higher ranked cult member, which scared the others into following orders. The one you described is a trap iirc. If you wait they will try to ambush you. But, I mean, wouldn't you want to kill Lara? It's pretty much her or them, and she's taking out a lot of them. They start getting more and more scared and panicked when they encounter her as the game goes on. If they wanted us to view the cult members as monsters who we shouldn't feel bad about killing then they shouldn't have had so many conversations that elicit sympathy. There's a lot of this mixed messaging going on. The game wants you to view the cult members and crazy feral monsters but also humanizes and gives them justification for acting for their survival. The game says Lara is a novice who isn't sure of her own abilities but becomes a combat expert the second she picks up a weapon and goes on a killing spree. The game wants a woman who killed 400 people single-handedly to be a survivor.
Anyway, the point is that it's a lot easier to buy killing someone who is fighting Lara as part of an organization by choice and weren't forced into.
One of the dumbest parts is when she has a clear shot on Mathias and decides to wait so she can watch Dr Douchebag get killed by the Oni.
More_Badass
Member
Considering that literally that first thing that happens is that someone take her to sacrifice and tires to kill her and 99% of the people she encounters tries to kill her, well hell yes, her actions are justified. She's acting in defense from the get-go
Yeah, it's her or them because most island inhabitants will kill her immediately. That several NPCs aren't as bad as the others doesn't change the fact the 99% of the enemies want to kill her immediately, on sight, without hesitation, even before she becomes a threat to be scared of
And to be fair, wanting "to get off the island and see their families" doesn't make them good people or mean they wouldn't kill Lara to do so
Maybe if the game had better AI and NPCs would beg and plead if you caught them unaware, then maybe I'd argue. But they don't. They're always aggressive toward Lara from the beginning to the end
It doesn't, really. Lara doesn't defend herself and she talks about how easy it is, her friends try to make her feel better because that's what friends do. Lara isn't a depicted as a hero besides her own heroic actions, by which I mean the lengths she goes to to save her friends, which is the divergence of the parallel done with Mathias who uses everyone around him for his own ends.
No, he had to stab her in the face during the ritual, iirc. Otherwise, she'd have just swarmed him with the zombie samurai.
I played through the game twice, and while there were a good bunch that were like that, there was plenty of the other kind too. Honestly, what are you getting at here? That just because they aren't completely evil means they aren't a danger? That Lara is supposed to have heart to heart every time she hears that someone might not shoot her on sight? Lara could walk up to them and they'd try to kill her. I'm not arguing against the sympathy of their situation, but it doesn't change the fact that the situation is set up such that it is either Lara or them. Nor does the fact that all they want to do is get back to their families mean they have moral get out of jail free card on all the other murders and tortures they've committed while on the island. Whether they are just a unlucky smucks that are down on their luck or not, they will kill lara before and after she gains her reputation, have in all likelihood killed before, and even if they haven't and don't want to kill Lara, she has no reasonable way of knowing that. I'm not saying they deserve to die on a moral level, but the situation is arranged as such that they need to if Lara is to survive.
The parallel they mention between Lara and Mathias and the Solarii isn't wrong, but you're misreading it. It's about survival and that they're all fighting for their lives and freedom. That's the entirety of their common ground. The game doesn't depict Lara as a hero, but it definitely does depict the other guys having engineered a society of cruelty for their ends. Lara fights to live, yes, which results in a whole lot of deaths, but Mathias and at the very least a vast majority of the cult he's crafted have murdered for reasons not related to survival, tortured and brainwashed, and sacrificed women to evil evil deities. On the other hand, Lara has taken risks against her own survival to save her allies. Lara has some moral grayness to her and not every person on the Solarii is equally vile, but it's you're exaggerating the situation beyond what the actual game is about if you're suggesting they are morally comparable.
And the situation I described was ambiguous. They were talking about how the Oni were going to kill them even if they got Lara, so they should stick together. It's unknown why that one guy started firing. Maybe it was a misfire, or maybe he was rebelling against the guy who said it, or maybe it was a trap like you said. Who knows. But that emphasizes the reality of the situation. There is no talking to these people. Even if they are genuine in their interest for peace, that doesn't mean there is any chance of it.
The other complaints you mentioned are just story mishaps that are neither here nor there.
Why are people surprised that Laura is good at killing now? Was she just supposed to sit on her hands and cry in the time that passed since her adventure on Yamatai? This isn't directly after the first game, people. Months, if not years, have passed. Lara's probably been training or something.
Oh, all of the enemies want to kill her on sight. Even the ones that object to what they are doing. It feels like there was a lot of the left hand not knowing what the right was doing when they made the game. You'll encounter a cult member lamenting what's going on and as soon as you trigger combat mode they start spouting the same recycled lines every other combat engaged cult member spouts.
Anyway, my point was that it's harder to take killing in the reboot because they humanized a lot of the cult members and tried to build sympathy for them... for some reason, but then never called any attention to it. A lot of the time you're killing cult members before they even have a chance to attack or not attack. Who knows. They were all pretty much in the same boat as Lara and her crew, and only the named cult members seem particularly psychopathic without the cult's influence. If they didn't want you to feel bad for them then why try to create sympathetic conversations and stuff for them? In the old games you killed guys that worked for criminal organizations. They didn't have conversations about being forced against their will and being tortured to join the organization and how they're just doing this so they can get home to the wife and kids they haven't seen in 30 years. Lara didn't try to justify her killing. She just killed.
My point is that the conversations the cult members have that are designed to elicit empathy for them should have been nixed. I mean, even at the base level it's hard to feel okay about killing people who just shipwrecked on the island and were forced to become cult members against their will, but I'd feel better about killing them if so many of them didn't sound like they weren't brainwashed or deranged until the combat trigger turned them into the mindless AI. Most of the people you kill seem to want to kill Lara because she is trying to stop a ritual that will probably allow them all to go home and end their living hell and/or because they will die if they don't kill Lara. It's especially dumb because it plays no role in the development of the plot and regardless of any conversation they have before combat is triggered they all turn into the same generic enemy when engaged. Lara considers them evil mindless monsters and documents you find describe how they are brainwashed but their conversations don't groove with that at all and they have no impact on what Lara thinks. You only find like 3 people like the ones described in the document and they are locked in cages in a cave. At least be consistent. Just have them all be brainwashed killers.
Anyway, my post was comparing old TR to the reboot, so you have to understand that it's in relative terms. It's that nobody wants to be on the island and, judging by the conversations, not everyone you kill even wants to fight, as opposed to the previous games save TR3, which was derided for what it did, which makes the difference I was pointing out in that bulletpoint. They are very different killer/killee relationships.
Another thing that really bugs me is they build the oni to be this huge threat that defeated the Japanese military, whatever this Trinity organization is, and hundreds of cult members, but then Lara runs in and slaughters them all by herself with a bow and arrow. How anticlimactic that was.
I felt it was just them trying to depict a nuanced situation. Yeah, the cult isn't 100% evil. So what? Whats the practical, nonfairyland solution that allows Lara to reasonably trust them? It's in their best interests to kill you. It's in your best interest to kill them. This doesn't take away from the fact that both they and Lara are human beings. It's a pretty realistic situation, not in the sense that it can actually happen, but the fact that it's taking the concept of a hostile cult on an island against an opposing force, and showing that while simple cooperative solutions are unrealistic, that doesn't change the fact that the cult members are people who aren't inherently vile people.
TR doesn't have the best story of any kind by a country mile, but it does get right one single aspect: Survival. It's not about good and evil, it's simply the struggle to continue living. You complained earlier that the game tried to make her out to be the hero when she wasn't justified in the killing. It didn't. Her killing was very justified and necessary, but that's not the same as making it morally good. It means she was in a shitty situation with shitty options. She doesn't cry about it either or anything, but you can't reasonably say that she had any chance at peace with these people, especially when the moment they tried to reach out, someone started shooting.
Oh, so you want it to be a black and white moral situation where her slaughter of enemies is glorified due to their evilness?
Lara doesn't think they're mindless monsters. At no point does she say that. In fact, she rarely comments on them at all. But her experience is that them doing horrible things. Things like NOT killing out of necessity. It's good that you have sympathy for their plight, but I think you're losing the fact that they TORTURED, RITUALLY KILLED, NEEDLESSLY SLAUGHTERED AND DONE A WHOLE BUNCH OF OTHER ATROCIOUS THINGS. This is not an insignificant point, nor something that Mathias was solely responsible for. Lara is not slaughtering a bunch of innocents here who didn't have an evil bone in them. That's the thing about accepting people as people. You have to accept that the person you relate to and can sympathize with is the same kind of person that would torture people to death. That's what the Solarii are. The only time she says anything like that is in the heat of battle, which makes sense, both as an intimidation tactic and a psychological processing.
Don't forget that Lara is "trying to stop a ritual that will probably allow them all to go home" because they kidnapped her best friend/lover so they could burn her to death, which if it doesn't work, the next step is to rip her soul out of her body. "Aw, poor guys, they just want to kill the girl they burned hundreds to painful death finding and go home." Yeah, the sympathy is there. Their situation sucks. They never intended to become monsters. It doesn't change the vileness of what they're doing. People often have very human reasons for doing the most gut chilling things. You're being dishonest by trying to portray them as nothing but guys who are down on their luck and afraid. They are that, but they are also more than that.
As I said, TR isn't the greatest story told by any measure, but what your describing sounds significantly less interesting than what we got. I wish they'd explore Lara's relationship with killing more than they did, and hopefully they'll do it more in Rise. What your describing is far more typical of a normal shooter. It's questionable how much the fact that they're sympathetic matters to Lara, and I don't really place a judgement on how much it should matter, but I'd rather it be there than not. It made for a more interesting game than if they had simply been cartoonishly evil.
travisbickle
Member
Are there any indie games that are more like the old Tomb Raiders? It's obvious why the reboot went in the more violent direction but hopefully there's something that takes its roots from the tomb raiding.
I don't want it to be black and white necessarily. They just need to go one way or the other. Ditching dialog that is inconsistent with the way the game depicts the cult members when engaged in combat would simply be the easiest way to clean up that part of the script. The better alternative would require rewriting the script and having each encounter feature unique combat dialog.
And again, my post was a comparison to old TR. Even if they got rid of the sympathetic conversations I would still feel worse killing them than other enemies because of the circumstances under which they find themselves in conflict with Lara.
chromatic9
Member
Makes me want a Rambo First Blood game
It sounds like black and white is exactly what you want. There's no inconsistencies here, it sounds like your just uncomfortable killing the enemies if they have a sympathetic element to their situation, even if they still do vile things. Well, that's just the situation Lara finds herself in, except she has less empathy for them because they are explicitly trying to kill her and her friends. Their desires for home are immaterial to her in the face of that, which is understandable. There's a reason all soldiers find derogatory names for their enemies in wars, even if they consciously know they are fighting people with lives as complex as what they have back home. That's not inconsistency, that's humanizing the enemy while maintaining that they have to die because the situation is set up as such that a peaceful resolution is unfeasible. Because God forbid that the player be conflicted in the face of a less than straight forward situation. No, this is far preferable situation than what you describe imo.
Well, there are always the games fans are making using the Tomb Raider Level Editor. Quite a few of those are real gems.
Tricky I Shadow
Banned
Best footage so far! Very impressive!
Also, the graphics look phenomenal. This engine is one of the best going around at the moment. So many great looking effects going on!
Lavitz Slambert
Banned
Wonder if we'll have giant arrows pointing us to the tombs this time around. Worst part of an otherwise enjoyable game. That and the overall lack of tombs.
Mr. Giggles
Member
Agreed, even use the same assets minus lara
Damn I just rewatched it. I once said I was going to enjoy it (more or less) regardless of its new Rambo like nature but I'm starting to question that statement.
Just thinking what they could make with that tech makes me feel a little sad, because animations and graphics are great, no doubt.
It is. With boobs and tombs, but it is. At least it's safe to say this is gonna be better than the real Rambo game..
Just thinking what they could make with that tech makes me feel a little sad, because animations and graphics are great, no doubt.
It is. With boobs and tombs, but it is. At least it's safe to say this is gonna be better than the real Rambo game..
Journey
Banned
Today on neogaf, everything is the last of us, Quantum Break included.
TanookiTom
Member
Can't wait for this game to come out. I was a bit worried about the location variety (snow, snow and more snow) with the setting being in Siberia/Russia but looking at the pictures this doesn't seem to be the case at all.
Bananajama
Banned
Looking good...
I'll stick to Fallout
I'll stick to Fallout
High quality version here :
http://www.gamersyde.com/news_gc_video_de_rise_of_the_tomb_raider-16916_fr.html
I see a awful lot of rough textures, hopefully the PC version will have better ones across the board.
http://www.gamersyde.com/news_gc_video_de_rise_of_the_tomb_raider-16916_fr.html
I see a awful lot of rough textures, hopefully the PC version will have better ones across the board.
Yautja_Warrior
Member
Really wish they had toned down the combat but it still seems like Lara is on a mission to perfect her Rambo impression.
My only hope is they balance it out with more exploring and raiding tombs this time.
My only hope is they balance it out with more exploring and raiding tombs this time.
Lavitz Slambert
Banned
If its not TLoU, its Dark Souls. Gaming started with those two games. Both inspired by Ico, which was in turn inspired by Another World. All hail Eric Chahi.
I Wanna Be The Guy
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
Marginally better than calling everything Uncharted at least. Nothing is more embarrassing than the time people were calling this game an Uncharted 2 ripoff because it had a snow setting.
I Wanna Be The Guy
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
If this gameplay showed me anything, its how AAA games are beginning to feel more and more homogenized.
The "oh tackle it any way you want" which essentially boils down to gunning everything down or stealth killing everyone or a mix match of both. Also, a typical crafting system.
The "oh tackle it any way you want" which essentially boils down to gunning everything down or stealth killing everyone or a mix match of both. Also, a typical crafting system.