Support NeoGAF

[JumPeRJumPzZ]

I am the only one that wants this Dinosaurs back in Tomb Raider? Or this unrealistic stuff in general?

Man i loved the old TRs for this. Seeing this gifs is nostalgia overload for me. I miss Core Design

 

[Omega Kirby]

Very Good News

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/08/05/gamescom-2015-i-raided-a-tomb-in-rise-of-the-tomb-raider

 

[jokebreath]

I'll still pick it up because I enjoyed the Tomb Raider reboot, but it's still a shame that this doesn't look like it's going to have any of the puzzle-platforming the series was built on and instead have mostly Uncharted-type scripted events and setpieces.

 

[NullPointer]

Very Good News

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/08/05/gamescom-2015-i-raided-a-tomb-in-rise-of-the-tomb-raider

Its a positive headline but the article itself is short on details including the whole raiding of that tomb. Reads like the writer spent more time getting to a tomb than playing in one - which could be just fine, but its hard to take away much from the meat of it. There is no talk about the size or scope or depth of the tomb nor how long it could take to finish or what other surprises might lurk within (edit: except for traps!).

Once inside I didn’t encounter any combat — it was all exploration and puzzle solving. Oh, and trap avoidance. Those nasty kill screens from the first game are back. Here I accidentally stepped where I shouldn’t and fell into a spike pit, shoving a spear from underneath Lara’s jaw and out the top of her head.

...

This tomb in particular is kind of an underground city built into the side of a mountain. Areas are flooded, and the puzzles were mostly physics-based water challenges much like we saw in the 2013 game. I didn’t have time to reach the end, but it looks like the environment we saw in the E3 trailer that leads to a huge wave of water spilling over the city gates.

I mean hell, I want this game to be filled with complicated tombs, and it could be, but that article is too vague to get a real sense from.

 

[Alo0oy]

Very Good News

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/08/05/gamescom-2015-i-raided-a-tomb-in-rise-of-the-tomb-raider

Damn, I thought they confirmed hipfire.

I'm still holding out hope for that.

 

[KORNdoggy]

Its a positive headline but the article itself is short on details including the whole raiding of that tomb. Reads like the writer spent more time getting to a tomb than playing in one - which could be just fine, but its hard to take away much from the meat of it. There is no talk about the size or scope or depth of the tomb nor how long it could take to finish or what other surprises might lurk within (edit: except for traps!).



I mean hell, I want this game to be filled with complicated tombs, and it could be, but that article is too vague to get a real sense from.

I worry about that too. In past games you'd spend hours getting to and exploring a tomb, with multi-tier platforming and puzzle solving all helping you solve the greater puzzle of the entire tomb. Tomb raider was a cerebral game. But i still get the impression the "tombs" in this new game are optional extras that they feel will get in the way of ripping out a guys guts with a pick axe.... But i really hope i'm wrong.

 

[Y2Kev]

The "Gaf told me" is a joke that many use. I always saw Tomb Raider as a Raiders of the Lost Ark game starring a female character, but even in that movie there are tons of action elements, chase scenes, fighting and shooting, you can't make a game that's just about raiding Tombs, that shit would be boring.

Btw, the original Tomb Raider also had lots of violence and killing people, animals and even kids! no even kidding about that last part. People have fond memories of the original Tomb Raider, but violence was always there.


OMG Lara shooting at people in the back...

Whoa, the guy is running away begging for his life yet she chases him and continues to shoot him in the back, how Psychotic!

http://i.imgur.com/cNhns3S.gif[/IG]


She even kills KIDS! Should we sound the Amber Alert? And what's the deal with a kid on a skateboard? Wow :/

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/lr8KHo0.gif[/IG]


Get away from me you crazy bitch! I take back what I said about the new Tomb Raider!!!

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/uuByAry.gif[/IG][/QUOTE]

OK, you need to waiT. Lara kills 5 people in Tomb Raider 1. 5. This number was reduced to one in the remake. 1!

I would be happy to concede that she kills lots of people in TR2 and 3 and so on and so forth but don't talk about my Tomb Raider 1.

 

[Amir0x]

The "Gaf told me" is a joke that many use. I always saw Tomb Raider as a Raiders of the Lost Ark game starring a female character, but even in that movie there are tons of action elements, chase scenes, fighting and shooting, you can't make a game that's just about raiding Tombs, that shit would be boring.

Btw, the original Tomb Raider also had lots of violence and killing people, animals and even kids! no even kidding about that last part. People have fond memories of the original Tomb Raider, but violence was always there.


OMG Lara shooting at people in the back...

Whoa, the guy is running away begging for his life yet she chases him and continues to shoot him in the back, how Psychotic!




She even kills KIDS! Should we sound the Amber Alert? And what's the deal with a kid on a skateboard? Wow :/



Get away from me you crazy bitch! I take back what I said about the new Tomb Raider!!!

Be careful, you might drown in all that disingenuousness.

In Tomb Raider, it wasn't that combat wasn't there - it's that it was barely a component of that game at all. You fought an extremely few times through the first game, most of them were animals when you did fight. 99% of your time was spent exploring complex tombs with brilliantly designed and sprawling puzzles and trap rooms. Even in 2 and 3, they increased the combat but it did not even approach the rate you have combat in TR2013.

New Tomb Raider is fucking filled to the brim with combat arenas, garbage platforming and atrocious exploration.

It's different. Fundamentally. You're not going to convince anyone they are in the same spirit, because they're indisputably not.

 

[c0de]

In Tomb Raider, it wasn't that combat wasn't there - it's that it was barely a component of that game at all. You fought an extremely few times through the first game, most of them were animals when you did fight. 99% of your time was spent exploring complex tombs with brilliantly designed and sprawling puzzles and trap rooms. Even in 2 and 3, they increased the combat but it did not even approach the rate you have combat in TR2013.

But we also have to see that the shooting was extremely bad to do because of the controls. Fighting so many enemies like in the current Tomb Raider would've been close to impossible to do in the old games.
The whole "let's jump wildly to all directions while shooting to not get hit" was quite bad from a gameplay point and a reason why you mostly didn't fight more than one or two enemies at the same time. Of course, in the end that is also a big part of what made the old Tomb Raiders special but it was also more or less a necessity because of the controls and the tech of that time.

 

[Amir0x]

But we also have to see that the shooting was extremely bad to do because of the controls. Fighting so many enemies like in the current Tomb Raider would've been close to impossible to do in the old games.
The whole "let's jump wildly to all directions while shooting to not get hit" was quite bad from a gameplay point and a reason why you mostly didn't fight more than one or two enemies at the same time. Of course, in the end that is also a big part of what made the old Tomb Raiders special but it was also more or less a necessity because of the controls and the tech of that time.

Yes, it was awful.

But who everloving gave a shit? The game was about exploration and puzzle solving and trap rooms and brilliant platforming. You barely ever entered combat. And thank the fucking Gods. Even if it was the best combat ever conceived in gaming, I would not want in the game at all if possible. Because that's not what made the series amazing, nor was it remotely why I played it.

There is literally zero games left on Earth that played like the astonishing original 2 or 3 TR games. Zero.

There are five trillion games that all play like the new Tomb Raider direction. It's tedious and completely unappealing, but hey that's where our industry is. I've long since given up on trying to salvage this series.

 

[viveks86]

Its a positive headline but the article itself is short on details including the whole raiding of that tomb. Reads like the writer spent more time getting to a tomb than playing in one - which could be just fine, but its hard to take away much from the meat of it. There is no talk about the size or scope or depth of the tomb nor how long it could take to finish or what other surprises might lurk within (edit: except for traps!).



I mean hell, I want this game to be filled with complicated tombs, and it could be, but that article is too vague to get a real sense from.

And this isn't inspiring confidence :/

Areas are flooded, and the puzzles were mostly physics-based water challenges much like we saw in the 2013 game.

 

[Montresor]

There is literally zero games left on Earth that played like the astonishing original 2 or 3 TR games. Zero.

There are five trillion games that all play like the new Tomb Raider direction. It's tedious and completely unappealing, but hey that's where our industry is. I've long since given up on trying to salvage this series.

Are there really? I can only think of Uncharted. Except the Tomb Raider reboots have light exploration / open world elements which Uncharted doesn't have, as far as I know.

Since I am not a Playstation gamer I am happy that something similar to Uncharted comes on 360/XB1. But, I get where you're coming from in terms of no more games like the original Tomb Raider existing. Tomb Raider Anniversary is one of my favourite games from last gen, and as you said you kill almost no one in that game. The game is separated into absolutely gigantic levels, and the levels themselves are huge puzzles. You're all alone, exploring, climbing, jumping, trying to make out where to go next or how to finish a puzzle, and you only fight briefly when some wolf or bear jumps out at you randomly once every two hours.

Maybe it is too expensive to make a game like the original Tomb Raider Anniversary because the actual audience for a Tomb Raider game with only puzzle is too small, so there will be no opportunity to make back the investment. Which is definitely sad.

I agree there need to be more games like the original Tomb Raider, but I don't agree that there are many games like Tomb Raider Reboot.

One thing to note is that Crystal Dynamics do have their Lara Croft series which is extremely heavy on puzzle solving. But those games are played top down. I still enjoyed both Guardian Of Light and Temple Of Osiris.

 

[c0de]

Yes, it was awful.

But who everloving gave a shit? The game was about exploration and puzzle solving and trap rooms and brilliant platforming. You barely ever entered combat. And thank the fucking Gods. Even if it was the best combat ever conceived in gaming, I would not want in the game at all if possible. Because that's not what made the series amazing, nor was it remotely why I played it.

There is literally zero games left on Earth that played like the astonishing original 2 or 3 TR games. Zero.

There are five trillion games that all play like the new Tomb Raider direction. It's tedious and completely unappealing, but hey that's where our industry is. I've long since given up on trying to salvage this series.

I agree with you, the atmosphere in the old Tomb Raiders is what made them special to me. The amazing music which only set in when it was needed, otherwise you were completely alone, raiding tombs...
I was and am still a huge fan of the old series, I played them a lot and especially liked for them for the atmosphere they were able to create back then but I also loved TR 2013 for what it was.
Was the name "Tomb Raider" wrong? Definitely. Was it in any way like the old games? No. Did I expect it to be like the old games? No. After the first footage, it was clear it was an Uncharted clone - a game to jump on the successful train of Uncharted. Did I have fun while playing the game? Yes. It was still good, in my opinion but it isn't Tomb Raider anymore. To me the "old" series have already ended and we won't see a new game like this ever. I had to adjust to it like I had to adjust myself believing that Resident Evil ended with Resident Evil 3 and then "something new" started.

 

[biglittleps]

Are there really? I can only think of Uncharted. Except the Tomb Raider reboots have light exploration / open world elements which Uncharted doesn't have, as far as I know.

Since I am not a Playstation gamer I am happy that something similar to Uncharted comes on 360/XB1. But, I get where you're coming from in terms of no more games like the original Tomb Raider existing. Tomb Raider Anniversary is one of my favourite games from last gen, and as you said you kill almost no one in that game. The game is separated into absolutely gigantic levels, and the levels themselves are huge puzzles. You're all alone, exploring, climbing, jumping, trying to make out where to go next or how to finish a puzzle, and you only fight briefly when some wolf or bear jumps out at you randomly once every two hours.

Maybe it is too expensive to make a game like the original Tomb Raider Anniversary because the actual audience for a Tomb Raider game with only puzzle is too small, so there will be no opportunity to make back the investment. Which is definitely sad.

I agree there need to be more games like the original Tomb Raider, but I don't agree that there are many games like Tomb Raider Reboot.

One thing to note is that Crystal Dynamics do have their Lara Croft series which is extremely heavy on puzzle solving. But those games are played top down. I still enjoyed both Guardian Of Light and Temple Of Osiris.

He means Tomb raider is using the gameplay elements from all the games and mixing it, there is no game that plays exactly like this Tomb raider but the gameplay elements its using are there in many games if we want to experience. We want puzzles, exploration, great music and platforming in Tomb raider which made it unique and popular, but not survivor game using action gameplay elements from other games.

 

[Amir0x]

Are there really? I can only think of Uncharted. Except the Tomb Raider reboots have light exploration / open world elements which Uncharted doesn't have, as far as I know.

Third person action shooters where you explore a bit interspersed between endless combat arenas and gameplay deprived set pieces? Yes, there are a billion released every year. Uncharted has influenced many games. Tomb Raider is a more violent expression of the Uncharted ideal. It's not only influenced by Uncharted though. It's a veritable checklist of "AAA" gameplay - RPG elements, upgrade items, scavenger hunts, combat arenas and lame set pieces altogether in one package. How quaint!

Contrary to popular myth, Uncharted series was never remotely like the original Tomb Raider games. TR2013 is like Uncharted.

Anyway, long story short I just wanted to push back against the completely disingenuous characterization that the OG TR games are anything like TR2013 and Rise of Tomb Raider like that one poster was trying to say with his sarcastic "but GAF told me there was only murdering" and "omg TR had shooting too, look at one of the five total humans you encounter in the game!"

 

[Mista]

7 minutes of extended gameplay

http://www.videogamer.com/videos/rise_of_the_tomb_raider_gamescom_stage_video.html

 

[Journey]

Be careful, you might drown in all that disingenuousness.

In Tomb Raider, it wasn't that combat wasn't there - it's that it was barely a component of that game at all. You fought an extremely few times through the first game, most of them were animals when you did fight. 99% of your time was spent exploring complex tombs with brilliantly designed and sprawling puzzles and trap rooms. Even in 2 and 3, they increased the combat but it did not even approach the rate you have combat in TR2013.

New Tomb Raider is fucking filled to the brim with combat arenas, garbage platforming and atrocious exploration.

It's different. Fundamentally. You're not going to convince anyone they are in the same spirit, because they're indisputably not.

Ok you're missing the point, looking at parts of the game where there's combat does no mean there's no Tomb Raiding or not enough of it. We don't know enough about Rise of the Tomb Raider to come to that conclusion. Of course there was much less killing in TR1, I was simply highlighting how you can take scenes from a game and make it look like something it is not (If you didn't take the subtitles on the gifs as a joke then your'e taking this too seriously) the same could be happening with ROTR, or maybe not, but what bugs me are the people acting surprised as if this was the first game in the series. I personally loved what they did with TRE and can't wait for more with Rise.

 

[BluenoseGames]

Very Good News

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/08/05/gamescom-2015-i-raided-a-tomb-in-rise-of-the-tomb-raider

also the community manager for TR on the forums said:

Hey lads and ladies - quick note to say hang in there for the Syria demo. We'll release it online just after Gamescom, and from reading comments, I think it will be the thing that many of you have been waiting for.

FYI - can't stick around to chat. Need to be up in five hours for another 15-hour day of work, so I am crashing out for the night!

So we'll be getting that demo sometime next week. Yay!

7 minutes of extended gameplay

http://www.videogamer.com/videos/rise_of_the_tomb_raider_gamescom_stage_video.html

You got me excited there ... that's the demo we saw at gamescom

 

[papercan55]

Those nasty kill screens from the first game are back. Here I accidentally stepped where I shouldn’t and fell into a spike pit, shoving a spear from underneath Lara’s jaw and out the top of her head.

So glad to see this returning, just hope they can think of even more gruesome than spikes going through lara's head.
Let's have her face being slowly torn in half please, this is tomb raider after all.

 

[More_Badass]

So glad to see this returning, just hope they can think of even more gruesome than spikes going through lara's head.
Let's have her face being slowly torn in half please, this is tomb raider after all.

Didn't the original games have really brutal kills for the time when you missed a jump or fall into spikes?

Like here, getting impaled through the chest and then slowly sliding down the spike?
http://youtu.be/w0WzVawemA8

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

also the community manager for TR on the forums said:




So we'll be getting that demo sometime next week. Yay!




You got me excited there ... that's the demo we saw at gamescom

Hype levels rising.

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

Didn't the original games have really brutal kills for the time when you missed a jump or fall into spikes?

Like here, getting impaled through the chest and then slowly sliding down the spike?
http://youtu.be/w0WzVawemA8

I mention this all the time and always get ignored. Brutal death animations have been a part of this series from tbe beginning. How quick people forget the amounts of complaints the Legend trilogy got for not having any cool death animations like this. I definitely welcome these kind of deaths returning and I hope they get really creative with them in this game. I hope for a greater emphasis on death traps in general.

 

[Future]

I think part of the issue with the combat isn't that it exists, it's that Lara seems like a assassin like killing machine. She can take out an army of dudes almost clinically. People joke about Drake being a mass murderer, but often his take downs look less clinical just because of the animations and scripted events that interweave combat

Lara looks like a cold blooded trained assassin in this new tomb raider that has Rambo like artillery if shit ever goes down. I could hear Ellie in my head going "oh shit Lara!" Multiple times during the demo

 

[Mista]

You got me excited there ... that's the demo we saw at gamescom

My bad, I thought it really was extended

 

[EGM1966]

The arguing about tone is getting idiotic.

Old Lara general image (from multiple games/media) is of a willing adventurer, someone who dives into old tombs, doges ancient traps and tackles some bad guys on the way. In short a female videogame Indiana Jones clone with the gender and posh background the twist on Indy J.

New Lara is portrayed (via a high level of dissonance) as a naive young woman plunged into a brutal fight for life against horrific foes and situations who also happens to transform into John Rambo whenever the shooting starts and brutally and efficiently dispatches foes without pause or remorse (until the next cut scene).

Both are viable and in the own way interesting approaches (although for me the reboot is hugely flawed due to the suspension of belief breaking dissonance and poor script although I actually prefer the idea of the character being formed by experience in the reboot) but they are in no way the same take on the character and all they share is a name and a few motifs.

As with any known brand the shift in tone has attracted criticism and will continue to do so.

Imagine if Raiders had gone from that tone to the tone of say Stallone's Cobra.

So let's be honest about the situation. They wanted to make a very different game tonally but leverage the known brand and IP. Fair enough. That always comes with risk as you mess with perceived expectations. Let's not pretend those complaining are somehow missing the picture. They're not. There has been a huge tonal shift and this is a very different portrayal of the character.

What does bug me about the current take is that a) the first game was way to similar to Uncharted DF (in that it had too much combat arena design and bullet sponge foes) and that b) using the title Rise of the Tomb Raider after we've had Tomb Raider (what was she last time then?) makes no narrative sense.

The title I'll have to live with but I'm hoping Rise is a lot more Uncharted 2 and a lot less Uncharted DF in terms of gameplay design and mechanics.

 

[Shadow_FFVI]

I mention this all the time and always get ignored. Brutal death animations have been a part of this series from tbe beginning. How quick people forget the amounts of complaints the Legend trilogy got for not having any cool death animations like this. I definitely welcome these kind of deaths returning and I hope they get really creative with them in this game. I hope for a greater emphasis on death traps in general.

That doesn't mean that the original developers of Tomb Raider would embrace the gore that was primitivaly depicted in a PS1, today. Now you can achieve the gore quite realistically and we don't know it they would go with this route in 2015.

 

[Ralemont]

Anyway, long story short I just wanted to push back against the completely disingenuous characterization that the OG TR games are anything like TR2013 and Rise of Tomb Raider like that one poster was trying to say with his sarcastic "but GAF told me there was only murdering" and "omg TR had shooting too, look at one of the five total humans you encounter in the game!"

Yes, it was good of you to counter that with some juicy disingenuousness of your own, what with new Lara "pulling people's faces off with ice picks in the most obscene ways imaginable."

 

[fluffydelusions]

PS4 version is up for preorder on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B013HMN66M/20-2530-20/

Thanks Wario64

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

It basically comes down to kids like (and buy) violent games these days. They could have taken the risk and made an actual Tomb Raider game with far less combat and while it would have pleased fans of the original games, it maybe wouldn't have sold as well (although they weren't really happy with sales of the last game either)

Maybe one day Tomb Raider will become more about the Tomb Raiding again, but this rebooted series is combat focused and doesn't look like that will be changing for a while, unless this one doesn't sell too well and they have to try a different approach.

 

[Fletcher]

This game looks great.

 

[Alo0oy]

What does bug me about the current take is that a) the first game was way to similar to Uncharted DF (in that it had too much combat arena design and bullet sponge foes) and that b) using the title Rise of the Tomb Raider after we've had Tomb Raider (what was she last time then?) makes no narrative sense.

The title I'll have to live with but I'm hoping Rise is a lot more Uncharted 2 and a lot less Uncharted DF in terms of gameplay design and mechanics.

Drake's Fortune still had hipfire & proper melee, I don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Tmecha]

Collection edition announcement

http://majornelson.com/2015/08/26/s...lectors-edition-for-xbox-one/?linkId=16561732