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[JeffZero]

Gonna see this for the third time either tonight or tomorrow thanks to its sweet, sweet Netflix hookup. Might be I'll post some more thoughts on it. Liked it a lot back in theaters.

Current standing:

1. Empire
2. Jedi
3. Force
4. Wars
5. Rogue
6. Sith
7. Clones
8. Phantom

 

[LiK]

Gonna see this for the third time either tonight or tomorrow thanks to its sweet, sweet Netflix hookup. Might be I'll post some more thoughts on it. Liked it a lot back in theaters.

Current standing:

1. Empire
2. Jedi
3. Force
4. Wars
5. Rogue
6. Sith
7. Clones
8. Phantom

I agree with this list.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

I just threw up a little. Differing opinions and all but this is going too far. The Throne Room sequence giving us one of the all-time most satisfying conclusions to a trilogy elevates RotJ to the moon when compared to RotS. It has the high ground (barf).

Naw man, ROTJ has Ewoks so it is ROTS tier.

/s

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I just threw up a little. Differing opinions and all but this is going too far. The Throne Room sequence giving us one of the all-time most satisfying conclusions to a trilogy elevates RotJ to the moon when compared to RotS. It has the high ground (barf).

The Throne Room sequence is the sequel to Empire Strikes Back that everyone's waiting for. And it delivers. But it's also maybe like 15 minutes of a 30 minute conclusion that is not enough to elevate the boring, tension-free, bland looking, somnambulistic 90 minutes of tired sequel preceding it, not enough to push it beyond its overall mediocrity.

Revenge of the Sith is overall a more consistent film, even if it never actually hits the heights of that throne room. It bottoms out with that "So love has blinded you" bullshit on the balcony, but then again - that's just about as bad as "Luke run away! Far away" scene on the rope bridge.

(couldja tell Luke? Is that who you could tellalaalrrrhghghralphbarf)

So it's not like we're arguing over which cut of steak is more delicious or anything like that. We're dealing with some storebought frozen patties no matter what. Question is how decently they got grilled at the bbq. I feel like Revenge of the Sith made for a barely better burger.

It's got that nice, even char.

edit: I like ewoks. I am one, basically.

 

[Weebos]

Nice, I might try to convince my SO to do a chronological rewatch.

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. Rogue One
4. The Force Awakens
5. Return of the Jedi
6. Revenge of the Sith
7. The Phantom Menace
8. Attack of the Clones

Come at me.

This list is the one that aligns with me. Some of the prequels might edge up a slot or two, not Attack of the Clones though, ugh that one is bad.

 

[yyr]

I didn't think it was an awful movie, just a completely unnecessary movie.

They got great actors and mostly squandered their talents, especially Donnie Yen. They didn't really give us much of a reason to care about the characters, who were hastily introduced with little to no backstories or connections. And they utilized these to tell a story that didn't particularly need to be told, especially seeing as how they

Spoiler

kill off 100% of its characters (after giving us little reason to care about them in the first place).

So yeah, good for those people who want to watch it (again), and also subscribe to Netflix?

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

It's the best Star Wars movie. Easily.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

I didn't think it was an awful movie, just a completely unnecessary movie.

It isn't any more unnecessary than TPM or AOTC.

 

[Sephzilla]

The Throne Room sequence is the sequel to Empire Strikes Back that everyone's waiting for. And it delivers. But it's also maybe like 15 minutes of a 30 minute conclusion that is not enough to elevate the boring, tension-free, bland looking, somnambulistic 90 minutes of tired sequel preceding it, not enough to push it beyond its overall mediocrity.

Revenge of the Sith is overall a more consistent film, even if it never actually hits the heights of that throne room. It bottoms out with that "So love has blinded you" bullshit on the balcony, but then again - that's just about as bad as "Luke run away! Far away" scene on the rope bridge.

(couldja tell Luke? Is that who you could tellalaalrrrhghghralphbarf)

So it's not like we're arguing over which cut of steak is more delicious or anything like that. We're dealing with some storebought frozen patties no matter what. Question is how decently they got grilled at the bbq. I feel like Revenge of the Sith made for a barely better burger.

It's got that nice, even char.

edit: I like ewoks. I am one, basically.

no, it's really not. it kind of jumps all over the place tonally and it can't really decide how to portray anakin (and obi-wan to a lesser degree)

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Rating films by their perceived level of necessity is a weird metric, I feel.

"We didn't need this" is applicable to all but like .01 % of all artistic endeavors.

You don't have to "need" a movie for it to be worth seeing

Edit: how is ROTS tonally inconsistent? I don't see that at all. It feels like the only one of these Lucas actually WANTED to make.

 

[The Scollard]

Nah, it does. It doesn't dig all that deep, but there is some "exploration" there. I don't think "men on a mission" is an excuse, either. That's the kind of movie it is, and those sorts of movies don't really dig too deep into any characters outside of maybe one or two at most. And Rogue One's biggest problem on that front is the character who is definitely the lead is also the character that is, unfortunately, the most wishy washy. I'm sure there are multiple reasons as to why she's that way, but those don't really matter in the face of the overall execution, really. Either Jyn Erso lands or she doesn't, and most of the time, she doesn't. Not as intended. She gets her moments, but they don't feel as solid as they should. There are three instances where I think Jones gets to dig into her role (watching Galen's hologram, yelling at Cassian, making her plea) but she's asked to carry a lot more than just those three scenes.

But that's just one character, and those missteps, while readily apparent, don't nullify or wipe out of hand all the cool character bits that are sprinkled throughout the movie. And there's a lot of 'em. And I feel like they land more than they don't. Donnie Yen, Alan Tudyk, Riz Ahmed, Diego Luna, Ben Mendelsson - they do good work in a film that only gives them so much room to work in, for a director who is like, the opposite of an actor's director, judging by his past work.

I mean, I'm not saying I don't understand why people are like "I can't care" or probably the more accurate "I don't care," I just disagree. It's really easy to care for these guys, and I do.

I wouldn't call Rogue One a "failure" by any stretch. Even the Tarkin/Leia VFX aren't "failures." They're not successes to the extent they probably wanted them to be - but they're not bad, and they certainly don't suck. (or look like a fuckin PS4 game, jesus)

The only thing close to a total failure I can think of is Forest Whitaker as Saw Gerrera. Almost nothing about him works.

But other than that? It's a pretty damned good movie. I really like it.

Couldn't disagree more. The character moments barely land because the film doesn't set up an emotional connection with the characters and their relationships. Jyn watching Galen's message fell flat on its face for me because 1. you have barely seen anything of their relationship (he tells her to run at the start and then there's the tiny scene when he's working for the Imperials) and 2. you also barely have seen Galen himself at this point. Saw's death doesn't work for the same reason, what little you do know about their relationship is told to you. With Galen, you barely see anything of him before he's killed off. Character moments don't work if you barely know the characters.

Hell, even the original Star Wars didn't have this problem. You at least got to spend some time with Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru before they were murdered. It wasn't a lot, but you saw their relationship with Luke and what their normal lives looked like. I ended up feeling more when they died then when either Galen or Saw did, even though they're less important in their film than the characters in Rogue One were. Sure, some of the other actors ended up doing some good work in their scenes (I was excited for Krennic as a villain since I like Mendelsohn and I thought did a good job in his opening scene... and only his opening scene, but then he became overshadowed in his own movie because they had to shove Tarkin and Vader in and ended up doing next to nothing important as a consequence), but when the characters they play have next to nothing to them, it doesn't really matter how good they are, the final result is still mediocre.

I would call Rogue One a failure; there were so many things about it that didn't work (Saw, Jyn, the first two acts) and it ended up making what should have been an exciting battle boring because I didn't care about any of the participants and already knew the outcome. It's a interesting story that can be done well because it has been done better before, but the end result is a movie I could barely get through. And I would call CGI Tarkin and Leia failures. They look bad and like they don't belong. They end up looking way too fuzzy when compared to the real actors that surround them.

That being said, I think the comparison to PS4 graphics is unfair. I played PS4 games that looked better than CGI Cushing.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

Rating films by their perceived level of necessity is a weird metric, I feel.

"We didn't need this" is applicable to all but like .01 % of all artistic endeavors.

You don't have to "need" a movie for it to be worth seeing

I get what you are saying. I think their argument is less about the "necessity" of the movie (despite the use of that term), and more that Rogue One didn't add much to the overall Star Wars Universe and story.

Personally, I just thought Rogue One was extremely rough through the first half and the characters were bland. Making a movie about the theft of the Death Star plans is fine, but it should have been made a little more competently.

 

[Sephzilla]

Edit: how is ROTS tonally inconsistent? I don't see that at all. It feels like the only one of these Lucas actually WANTED to make.

It really awkwardly jumps between being a serious space fantasy movie, a silly adventure romp, and then also tries to do slapstick comedy. It doesn't really transition through any of these styles smoothly at all. It tries to be Empire serious with comic relief but doesn't stick the landing at all, and it messes up the tone of a lot of the movie.

 

[Einchy]

Sith is a movie that has so many issues, that it feels like it should be horrible, but it somehow still ends up being pretty good.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

It really awkwardly jumps between being a serious space fantasy movie, a silly adventure romp, and then also tries to do slapstick comedy.

Yeah, but those happen in a pretty orderly progression. Most of the goofball shit you're referencing happens in the first half hour, which is essentially a movie unto itself (sorta like Jedi's last half-hour doesn't resemble much of what preceded it). So you have the action/adventure romp (ish), which contains lighthearted bits of (mediocre) silliness punctuated by the one dark (ish) moment where Dooku bites it, and then when all that wraps up, the second Anakin claps eyes on Padme, the movie downshifts into a very consistent tone for the rest of the run, which just keeps progressively building and building until we get to Mustafar.

It's not like a bunch of silly goofy shit is being scattered all throughout the movie or anything. It pretty much moves in a straight line, tonally, from landing on Coruscant to the suns on Tatooine.

Again, to clarify: I think both Sith and Jedi are mediocre overall. I'm arguing degrees of mediocrity here. They're both closer to each other in quality than they are apart. And I think Sith's overall quality is higher than Jedi's.

And Rogue One is a full tier above both of them in almost every way that matters.

Couldn't disagree more.

You probably co—

That being said, I think the comparison to PS4 graphics is unfair. I played PS4 games that looked better than CGI Cushing.

—yeah okay. Thanks Sco.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

edit: dp

 

[yyr]

It isn't any more unnecessary than TPM or AOTC.

I think I might agree with you there.

Well, okay, it's my opinion. But I honestly believe that the plot of the prequel trilogy could have been compressed into 2 (better) movies rather than the 3 that we have.

 

[QuantumZebra]

I cared more about [R1 SPOILER]

Spoiler

that droid dying

than I did about Padme dying or Anakin turning.

^^^^^^^^^

Rogue One is a really good movie.

 

[Man Called Aerodynamics]

Just watched it again, and I have to say, I liked it a lot better on second viewing. I still think that the first half of the movie is shapeless and overstuffed with characters.

 

[Gnome Scat]

For real. I do think it has some problems (which Star Wars doesn't?), but I absolutely adore the aesthetics
(spoilers ahead, watch the movie first. Lots of images but they are only 3MB total)

How they managed to put in better and new vehicles and troopers compared to TFA remains a mystery.
Duck-faced stormtroopers in the sequels are hilarious.

I don't think anyone is saying the film wasn't absolutely gorgeous.

 

[Jack Scofield]

I enjoyed it more than The Force Awakens, though I feel that TFA is more re-watchable and "fun" (if that makes any sense). The characters weren't the deepest but I still felt sad when they died, which is more than I can say for Han Solo's death.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

Okay, I haven't been on my PS4 lately, mostly PC gaming, but what game visually looks much more realistic than CG Tarkin?

I'm not saying CG Tarkin was flawless, and I was fooled into thinking he was a real person. I just want an example, for the sake of curiosity or to see if just hyperbole.

 

[RyanW]

I remember the first time watching the pacing in beginning felt really odd, especially when jusmping from planet to planet. It's gotten better with every viewing after that, maybe because I've gotten used to it.

I still kind of wish there was an opening crawl just for backstory's sake. All they'd really have to do is summarize Catalyst(prequel novel). Also I still dislike the big "Rogue One" title card at the beginning.

 

[Sunster]

Gonna see this for the third time either tonight or tomorrow thanks to its sweet, sweet Netflix hookup. Might be I'll post some more thoughts on it. Liked it a lot back in theaters.

Current standing:

1. Empire
2. Jedi
3. Force
4. Wars
5. Rogue
6. Sith
7. Clones
8. Phantom

Confused about 2. RotJ was a tad cheesy.

 

[Monocle]

Fucking great movie. I rewatched the highlights recently and now I have a good excuse to watch the whole thing again.

Maybe the characters aren't so well developed, but they're still fine on a surface level. Apart from a couple moments of lethargy from Vader's suit wearer, everything else owns.

Let's all praise Hannibal for making Luke's triumph possible. Thanks Hannibal.

 

[GK86]

I just finished it. I'm not the biggest SW fan out there, but this ranked up there for me. I agree completely that the first hour of this movie is trash. But man, when the second half hits, it is worth having sat through it. The action and the cinematography were fantastic. Some amazing shots. I also liked that pretty much

Spoiler

everyone dies in this.

Also, why the fuck did they use the CGI on that officer?

Anyone who disses this film

I laughed out loud at this part. I loved K.

 

[Vixdean]

It still blows my mind that anyone thinks ROTS is a good movie. If you personally enjoy it on some level, that's one thing, but a good movie? I enjoy Taco Bell every now and again but I recognize that it's terribly made garbage full of shit that will kill me. Rogue One is a perfectly seared medium rare ribeye by comparison.

 

[Tom Nook]

Apologies for being off tangent but need help.

Trouble viewing Netflix.

I'm having trouble viewing tv shows and movies while on Neflix.

I'm not sure if it's a Roku stick or Netflix issue. I'm using the lastest Roku Stick while watching netflix.

Whenever I watch a show or movie, it would suddenly cuts off in the middle of my viewing and it goes straight to the roku home screen.

Example: I'm binge watching Forensic Files then suddenly it's just cuts to the roku home screen(where you select apps to choose from) just like that. I would select Neflix again and resume watching FF where I left off. During the next episode, it does it again - it's so annoying.

I tried watching a movie (Police Academy) and it would also do the same thing where it cuts to the roku home screen after 20 -30 minutes.

I did upgrade to the latest Roku firmware and reinstall Netflix app but it's still doing that issue.

Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks.

 

[TheSadRanger]

The saga of Gary Whitta and gaf is more interesting to me than Star Wars itself at this point.

 

[Frankenstrat]

Didn't quite hold up as well on the second viewing. Really wish the first half had had as much impact as the second.

 

[Daigoro]

But that's just one character, and those missteps, while readily apparent, don't nullify or wipe out of hand all the cool character bits that are sprinkled throughout the movie. And there's a lot of 'em. And I feel like they land more than they don't. Donnie Yen, Alan Tudyk, Riz Ahmed, Diego Luna, Ben Mendelsson - they do good work in a film that only gives them so much room to work in, for a director who is like, the opposite of an actor's director, judging by his past work.

just "one" character, the main one that is. which is a problem.

this paragraph also states exactly why the movie doesnt really work all that well. there is some really cool shit, and some really great characters in this film, that get almost zero development and no room to breathe. there is too little quality time spent with any of them. it's so much less a film than the sum of it's parts. some great parts! not a great film.

Even the Tarkin/Leia VFX aren't "failures." They're not successes to the extent they probably wanted them to be - but they're not bad, and they certainly don't suck. (or look like a fuckin PS4 game, jesus)

they are distracting though. in contrast to what looks great in the film, they look quite bad, and they will age very very poorly.

 

[Pepboy]

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. Rogue One
4. The Force Awakens
5. Return of the Jedi
6. Revenge of the Sith
7. The Phantom Menace
8. Attack of the Clones

Come at me.

Mostly similar but for me Force Awakens is three slots lower. I'd rather rewatch TPM again any day than TFA. It also builds a lot more on the universe, even if I didn't like everything (midichlorians, chosen one, etc).

TFA was just so unenthusing. Flashy but does not hold up well, consistent with JJ Abrams work.

 

[TheBryanJZX90]

Just saw this for the first time, it was pretty great. I think I liked it more than TFA, which I also liked. But I'm a sucker for these kinds of stories, a crew of badasses giving it all to complete an impossible mission. Reach was my favorite Halo game too!

 

[TheWraith]

1. ESB
2. ANH
3. TFA
4. RotJ
5.RotS
6. R1
7.AotC
8.TPM

Rogue One really suffers from forgettable characters, I could hardly name you one of its main cast after having seen the movie. After TFA I knew all the names of Rey, Fynn, Poe,... and could relate to them, I never felt for any of its characters, the worst ones being the written-in-for-Chinese-Market cardboard Chinese guys, urgh so forced.

 

[CloudWolf]

Still not got round to watching it yet. Obviously won't be on UK Netflix either!

Though I refuse to believe that anything with Mads Mikkelsen in it could be bad.

Eh, Mads Mikkelsen has done some pretty mediocre stuff. Clash of Titans, Dr. Strange and (unpopular opinion) season 3 of Hannibal come to mind. Rogue One is great though, way better than The Force Awakens IMO.

 

[zoukka]

It still blows my mind that anyone thinks ROTS is a good movie. If you personally enjoy it on some level, that's one thing, but a good movie? I enjoy Taco Bell every now and again but I recognize that it's terribly made garbage full of shit that will kill me. Rogue One is a perfectly seared medium rare ribeye by comparison.

Rogue One is the overcooked, overseasoned steak you have to swallow on a family dinner.

 

[FutureLarking]

Didn't quite hold up as well on the second viewing. Really wish the first half had had as much impact as the second.

Let is be known that the reshoots did add and change a whole bunch of stuff in the first half, including that pointless scene where Cassian kills an informant in the cheapest and most hastily assembled Star Wars set ever created (which was meant to be characterization of Cassian but ends up just wasting time). Be interested to know what the original start looked like because the pacing is way fucking dead in the final release. Last half is bliss though.

Saying that, my ratings are:

Empire Strikes Back
A New Hope
Rogue One
Revenge of the Sith
The Phantom Menace
Return of the Jedi
Attack of the Clones
The Force Awakens

(As someone invested in the Star Wars universe and mythology, Force Awakens was complete croc, but I am looking forward to The Last Jedi. In Rian I trust)

 

[Davey Cakes]

I played PS4 games that looked better than CGI Cushing.

Hah. Nice one.

Honestly, I hated CGI Peter Cushing. Not only was "it" horrible in the uncanny valley sense, but that single visual is going to date the movie. Putting unnecessary shit like that in there hurts the timelessness because it's so unconvincing. The rest of the special effects are well incorporated in comparison.

 

[blame space]

should I watch this? I hate star wars.

 

[GK86]

Hah. Nice one.

Honestly, I hated CGI Peter Cushing. Not only was "it" horrible in the uncanny valley sense, but that single visual is going to date the movie. Putting unnecessary shit like that in there hurts the timelessness because it's so unconvincing. The rest of the special effects are well incorporated in comparison.

What was the reasoning behind using CGI in this instance?

I didn't follow the development of this and not a huge fan of the franchise, so idk if he was a character from Hope.

 

[Ridley327]

What was the reasoning behind using CGI in this instance?

I didn't follow the development of this and not a huge fan of the franchise, so idk if he was a character from Hope.

Tarkin is effectively the second main villain in ANH, and even then, Vader does comply with his orders when they're given. In the overall canon, he's the father of the entire Death Star concept and is one of the highest ranking officers in all of the Empire. He is, putting mildly, kind of a big deal.

As Bobby speculated, it was likely a situation where they wanted to break new ground for CG human rendering and, well, impressions were mixed, to say the least.

 

[Sephzilla]

Gonna see this for the third time either tonight or tomorrow thanks to its sweet, sweet Netflix hookup. Might be I'll post some more thoughts on it. Liked it a lot back in theaters.

Current standing:

1. Empire
2. Jedi
3. Force
4. Wars
5. Rogue
6. Sith
7. Clones
8. Phantom

Flip 7 and 8 and our lists are pretty much identical

 

[Ploid 3.0]

I haven't seen it also, though I'm not a Star Wars fan. I will watch it for the graphics!

 

[CHC]

Just watched it for the first time - good movie! About what I expected. A suitable vehicle for cool Star Wars action and visuals, competently handled. Really thought the "old actor" CGI was tastefully done and of mind blowingly high quality, but I was on a sort of small screen so I don't know how it holds up in larger formats.

Definitely worth watching, especially on Netflix of all places. I certainly would have enjoyed seeing this in a theater and would have had no regrets about buying a ticket.

Not on the same quality as the OG trilogy or Force Awakens, but it wasn't billed as a mainline Star Wars film so expectations were tempered.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I mean, how much "development" do we really need in a lot of these cases, though?

Some of this criticism sounds like buzzword slapjack.

How "developed" were Hicks, Hudson, and Vazquez? Yunno? How "developed" were Telly Savalas and Jim Brown? I'm not saying the Rogue One crew are on those levels at all, but for the purposes of comparison, are we maybe overinflating the importance/meaning of "development" for the sake of it?

It's a primarily ensemble cast. Not everyone is going to have their own heroes journey. Not everyone is going to get their own Arthurian moment. It's inherently superficial in many ways. Audience is routinely asked to fill in their own blanks with those guys in lots of movies. It's not really any different here.

I just think "I can't care because x, y, and z" is valid no doubt, but it can also become sort of an empathy trap as a viewer. Like, if you find yourself thinking a character is cool, and you like spending time with them as they do something cool, and that what they do seems decently connected to who they are... that CAN be enough. You don't have to like, WITHHOLD that enjoyment earned by the film, FROM the film, like you would dessert from a kid who skipped one of his veggie sides.

Is this movie good at doing what it wants to do? For the most part, yeah. Do it's flaws and shortcomings sink the rest of it? I don't think there are enough of them to really pull it down into mediocre range like a lot of genre fare.

Hah. Nice one.

Man, no.

 

[Sephzilla]

Hicks, Hudson, and Vazquez had more personality than most of the Rogue One cast. But I do agree that not everyone needs to go through a heroes journey arc

 

[Bobby Roberts]

should I watch this?

No

 

[blame space]

thanks bro

 

[RoadHazard]

Gonna see this for the third time either tonight or tomorrow thanks to its sweet, sweet Netflix hookup. Might be I'll post some more thoughts on it. Liked it a lot back in theaters.

Current standing:

1. Empire
2. Jedi
3. Force
4. Wars
5. Rogue
6. Sith
7. Clones
8. Phantom

Switch Jedi and ANH, and this list checks out. There's a pretty large gulf between the top 4 and R1 though, IMO, and then another gulf between R1 and the prequels.

 

[phanphare]

Switch Jedi and ANH, and this list checks out. There's a pretty large gulf between the top 4 and R1 though, IMO, and then another gulf between R1 and the prequels.

yep

also put clones at the very bottom