polyh3dron
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Rottenwatch: Book of Eli (GAF meltdown incoming?)
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Vast Inspiration
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I find that its always the people screaming about plot-holes that are usually the dumbest or just the most thick-headed. Give me a fucking break.
Its like, there are dozens of subtle and numerous not-so-subtle cues and foreshadowing to the twist ending, but then dumbasses come here and scream about the twist been unreasonable and not believable.
Oh please. There IS a certain suspension of disblief and the movie DOES ask you to have a little bit of faith so I just don't understand how people can actually sit there and talk about "internal inconsistencies". If you're freaking complaining about ipods and food people eat and fuel for trucks, then you really need to take a step back and reevaluate the way you watch a movie. Its so annoying when writers go so out of their way to explain away everything for the common idiot and yet they still have to explain every little fucking detail otherwise assholes on internet forums are going to scream "PLOT HOLE!!!" and act smug.
Gary, I thought the movie had a fantastic twist and I especially liked that
And I haven't sen anyone mention this, but I found the movie played out very similar to The Road and Waterworld (a connection which no one has seemed to point out)...except this movie is done much better and has an awesome ending.
Its like, there are dozens of subtle and numerous not-so-subtle cues and foreshadowing to the twist ending, but then dumbasses come here and scream about the twist been unreasonable and not believable.
Oh please. There IS a certain suspension of disblief and the movie DOES ask you to have a little bit of faith so I just don't understand how people can actually sit there and talk about "internal inconsistencies". If you're freaking complaining about ipods and food people eat and fuel for trucks, then you really need to take a step back and reevaluate the way you watch a movie. Its so annoying when writers go so out of their way to explain away everything for the common idiot and yet they still have to explain every little fucking detail otherwise assholes on internet forums are going to scream "PLOT HOLE!!!" and act smug.
Gary, I thought the movie had a fantastic twist and I especially liked that
the historians(ish) people didn't treat the book as something special but just as another important piece of saving history, and all the other major religious books were there as well.
And I haven't sen anyone mention this, but I found the movie played out very similar to The Road and Waterworld (a connection which no one has seemed to point out)...except this movie is done much better and has an awesome ending.
turnbuckle
Member
Just got back from seeing it.
And wtf at all the unmarked spoilers. I could see it being more acceptable after a week or so, but the opening weekend wasn't even over and the RT thread where I would traditionally look to check for user reviews just about gives away the whole damned movie.
Overall, I thought the movie was only as good as one's ability to look past some ridiculous leaps of faith and/or logic. And since the tone and pacing of the movie wasn't one where I could generally excuse it as popcorn flick conventions, if Eli really is
then the movie is instantly worse to me. The
I thought the movie was good, not great.
After the braille reveal, I still didn't believe Eli was blind. What I thought instead was that he couldn't read the bible himself either and he was trying to deliver the book to someplace that could read/reproduce it properly. I thought the actual bible he had in possession was contained as an audiobook within his ipod. I especially drew this conclusion at the end of the film when Solara, who couldn't read, put in the ear buds and seemingly was going to spread the message.
There were a few hints that he was blind, but I refuse to believe he was.
There were a few hints that he was blind, but I refuse to believe he was.
And wtf at all the unmarked spoilers. I could see it being more acceptable after a week or so, but the opening weekend wasn't even over and the RT thread where I would traditionally look to check for user reviews just about gives away the whole damned movie.
Overall, I thought the movie was only as good as one's ability to look past some ridiculous leaps of faith and/or logic. And since the tone and pacing of the movie wasn't one where I could generally excuse it as popcorn flick conventions, if Eli really is
blind
mass bible burnings] is completely unbelievable, but I'm also not convinced that Eli's book was really the last one available...just the first known copy to be found by people able to read after 30 or so years.
I thought the movie was good, not great.
Vast Inspiration said:
Basically this. If an author/screenwriter can leave you with reasons WHY it's not a plothole, that's great.. but that just happens in books and not movies for the most part. Frank Herbert's Dune series is a good example of this IMO (though those who didn't get his little hints and cues will disagree, or those who hate him for his last couple books). In movies, you can't have everything explained, and sometimes you just have to accept it. On that note, Book of Eli was a great film that I enjoyed, along with my fiance and a close friend (also a GAFfer
)So another thing that wasn't quite clear to me:
When Eli is talking about
Any thoughts?
When Eli is talking about
the flash and the war and how there was a hole ripped in the sky - was there anything else that was cut the expanded upon what happened? It seems like a flash implies there was some sort of nuclear war, but there isn't really any indication that people had problems with radiation other than burns... so if it was just some sort of thing with the atmosphere and possibly some sort of isolated solar flare or something and the atmosphere let in... I don't know... just doesn't make any sense to me.
wadsworth said:
Eli asked Solara's mother if she was blinded during the war, meaning that whatever weapon was used to cause a flashing tear in the sky caused people to go blind at the sight of it... at least that's what I gathered, and that's when Eli went blind.
turnbuckle said:
Believable or not, I'm pretty sure it was one of the few copies left on earth because it was written for the blind... something less likely to be burned initially
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
wadsworth said:
You see plenty of craters at the beginning of the movie, seems kind of established that meteors fucked shit up, which can also explain the hatred for religion since its plausible people would blame shit falling from the sky as "fuck religion, you fucked us up"
I havent caught up with the thread, but Im assuming a lot of people feel brave bitching about the movie since they can attack the writer directly in this forum ... or something like that, thats just my guess.
I thought the movie was pretty awesome. Very well shot, awesome cinematography and great lighting. The religious aspects can be a liiiittle annoying at first, but soon you realize that this is a movie that couldnt exist without them, because the story depends on them, it became the strength of the film and the connection between all the dots.
Great work Gary and co., looking forward to whats next.
DeadFalling
Member
Question about Eli:
Was Eli blind from birth or from the flash? If from the flash, how did he know how to read the braille Bible?
DeadFalling said:
It seemed to be implied that it was due to the flash. One could argue that many blind people learned to read braille due to this incident, even though this incident caused some people to erased a lot knowledge... even the blind woman at the end seemed familiar with it, but refused to give in to Carnegie. There were lots of book burnings following the war it seems, even aside from the Bible as the movie implies, so some earlier blinds may have known how to read it.
Saw the movie today, enjoyed it quite a bit. Regarding the twist, my thinking was that
.
I need to see it again though, that theory could be completely off, but that was what went through my mind immediately after watching it.
Eli was blind before the apocalypse happened, and whatever it was that tore open the sky actually gave him his sight back. He found the braille bible, and figured God had bestowed a miracle upon him, so it was his duty to take the bible wherever it was needed and make sure it survived. He was as awesome as he was because his senses had been honed while he was blind, and when he got his sight back he was able to use them to his advantage.
I need to see it again though, that theory could be completely off, but that was what went through my mind immediately after watching it.
It gets a little spoilery below, so be forewarned. I won't talk about the alien scene* or anything, but it's better that you don't read if you don't want to be spoiled.
*Note: there is no alien scene (or is there?)
I didn't have any huge problems with the movie... I think for better or worse it's got the Rottentomatoes rating it deserves. Even though I'm a fan of the ol' Game Theory podcast and Gary seems like a nice guy, I watched the movie not to support him, but because I read Ebert's review, which basically said "see the movie before you talk to anyone about it." I was already interested, so I did.
As I walked out of it, I thought there would be two opposing forces at work here and I haven't read this or other threads about it completely, but I felt it was going to come down to "Everyone Loves Denzel" vs. "Internet hates religion". Don't know if that came to pass, but it sounds like it in pieces, a little.
I thought the twist was interesting... the moron behind us in the theatre was predicting that they swapped out the book's innards. (He wasn't a moron for predicting that -- it was my best guess at the moment, he was just chatty on and off, all movie). At least it came as sort of a surprise and made for a neat resolution with Oldman's character.
As for Plissken's theory, that's an interesting idea, but I think they're tipping you when they have the conversation about the "no trespassing" sign outside the old folks' house.
Also, I don't think Mila Kunis has ever looked better.
*Note: there is no alien scene (or is there?)
I didn't have any huge problems with the movie... I think for better or worse it's got the Rottentomatoes rating it deserves. Even though I'm a fan of the ol' Game Theory podcast and Gary seems like a nice guy, I watched the movie not to support him, but because I read Ebert's review, which basically said "see the movie before you talk to anyone about it." I was already interested, so I did.
As I walked out of it, I thought there would be two opposing forces at work here and I haven't read this or other threads about it completely, but I felt it was going to come down to "Everyone Loves Denzel" vs. "Internet hates religion". Don't know if that came to pass, but it sounds like it in pieces, a little.
I thought the twist was interesting... the moron behind us in the theatre was predicting that they swapped out the book's innards. (He wasn't a moron for predicting that -- it was my best guess at the moment, he was just chatty on and off, all movie). At least it came as sort of a surprise and made for a neat resolution with Oldman's character.
As for Plissken's theory, that's an interesting idea, but I think they're tipping you when they have the conversation about the "no trespassing" sign outside the old folks' house.
Also, I don't think Mila Kunis has ever looked better.
DeadFalling
Member
Thanks. That was my best guess as well, just was making sure.Sklorenz said:
Panda Bear
Banned
Aaron said:
Peronthious
Member
Got out of the theater an hour or so ago. The end was not half as bad as I was led to believe, though
Great message, though, and wonderful acting.
her walking off into the distance was a bit cheesy. Of course, the whole film was a bit cheesy with a blind guy fighting off a score of guys several times and all that.
One thing I haven't seen discussed in this topic -
I grok that movies are left open to interpretation... but goddamn GAF members are stupid, sometimes. The number of people in this topic that think Eli was SOLELY relying on heightened senses, or worse yet
is very very disappointing to me.
So it's a pretty unlikely event that Eli was able to find a bible in some ruins to begin with. But for a blind man to find a brail bible? CLEARLY devine intervention, people. :lol Not to mention he just happens to end up on Alcatraz, where historical relics are being preserved, without actually KNOWING that any of that was happening at alcatraz. I mean, it could have just as easily have been held by bandits. I mean, what caused Eli to get in the boat and row out there?
How can anyone not understand that Eli was being guided by God?
How can anyone not understand that Eli was being guided by God?
I grok that movies are left open to interpretation... but goddamn GAF members are stupid, sometimes. The number of people in this topic that think Eli was SOLELY relying on heightened senses, or worse yet
wasn't blind
MWS Natural
Member
Just got back from the film, my date and I loved it. She even liked it more than I do; we both were shocked at the ending and never seen the twist coming. I don't understand how anyone could not like this film. The cinematography, acting and dialogue were all amazing. The only week point was the editing imo, it seemed like a few scenes were cut here and there and pieced together.
side note:
Has Denzel ever been in a bad movie? Damn he's been on a roll since the late 90's lol
side note:
Has Denzel ever been in a bad movie? Damn he's been on a roll since the late 90's lol
I just got back from seeing it. I was actually quite blown away. The way I interpreted it, it had tons of religious references on a deeper level.
I'm definitely going back to see it again.
Just my two cents.
I mean, a few examples: 1. Big flash = Biblical doomsday, where all the believers are whisked away to join everlasting peace and the non-believers are left behind. 2. Eli's journey was representative of Jesus' time spent walking the earth. Especially the whole "30 years" thing. 3. At the end, where Eli is rowing out to Alcatraz, and he can't go any longer - this is representative of when Jesus was carrying the cross and just could not bear to go on. 4. After Christ was resurrected, he sent his Desciples to go out and preach the Word to the world. Solara "taking over" for Eli at the end felt a lot similar to Christ's calling of his followers.
I'm definitely going back to see it again.
Just my two cents.
Gary Whitta
Member
Just wanted to say how thrilled I am to hear that so many of you liked the film, and to see so much detailed and thoughtful discussion going on. That was one of the big aims when I was writing it; to get people talking.
I've mostly been lurking rather than posting because the film was designed to let people reach their own conclusions and I didn't want to jump in and start telling people what I think they should take away from it, but I'll happily answer any specific questions as best I can.
And thanks again to all those who spent their hard-earned cash and helped make this movie a big hit at the box office this weekend
I've mostly been lurking rather than posting because the film was designed to let people reach their own conclusions and I didn't want to jump in and start telling people what I think they should take away from it, but I'll happily answer any specific questions as best I can.
And thanks again to all those who spent their hard-earned cash and helped make this movie a big hit at the box office this weekend
Just listened to Mark Kermode's review. He made the film sound frightfully weird (weirder, I think, than it is), but sounded more enthusiastic about it than he did about 'Up in the Air'.
He tends to have a light trigger finger for calling films 'shambolic', so I think that criticism can be discounted.
He tends to have a light trigger finger for calling films 'shambolic', so I think that criticism can be discounted.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
Seeing it tomorrow. Im excited.
Gary, how many scripts have you already written since you finished Eli?
Gary, how many scripts have you already written since you finished Eli?
EraldoCoil
Member
i really enjoyed the film, seen it Saturday night. Congratulations to you Gary, great opening weekend and i wish you the best.
Gary,
do you know how many takes did it take to film the
Gary,
do you know how many takes did it take to film the
Opening silhouette fight scene? the fight choreography was amazing in that scene and looked like it was a difficult part to get right.
Gary Whitta
Member
I don't remember exactly how many but more than a few. The final shot you see in the film is actually two different takes spliced together digitally but they did it so well you can't possibly see where one ends and the other begins.EraldoCoil said:
HUELEN10
Member
Hey Gary, where did you get the awesome idea of having Eli
being apparently nothing more than a simple, humble Kmart employee in his life prior to the book? I thought it was pretty nice that such an awesome character had such a humble origin. Sure got me thinking anyways. Was Eli always intended to have been originally a "nobody"?
A handful of questions off the top of my head, if G. Whitta is in a Q&A kinda mood. Some about the plot itself, others a little bit more general.
Which of the
were scripted by you, and which were improvised or otherwise introduced during filming itself? I'm thinking about
So how DID Eli escape Carnegie's room, with the guard outside? Cut scene?
I know you mentioned that the movie is very much "your vision" on the screen - no major changes. But I'm curious about what DID change. What scenes were added to your screenplay that ended up in the film... or scenes that were cut. I'm basically curious about differences between the finished product & your screenplay.
Was Eli
Also, not a question, but something else I just realized:
Edit:
My interpretation was that he had just found that backpack somewhere on his travels. I don't believe he ever actually gives his name to anyone, in the film. So when
, they name him Eli because they don't have anything better to call him.
Which of the
blindness hints
Continuing to press iPod buttons, feeling around for the boots... these sorts of things.
So how DID Eli escape Carnegie's room, with the guard outside? Cut scene?
I know you mentioned that the movie is very much "your vision" on the screen - no major changes. But I'm curious about what DID change. What scenes were added to your screenplay that ended up in the film... or scenes that were cut. I'm basically curious about differences between the finished product & your screenplay.
Was Eli
Blinded by the flash, or already blind, when it happened?
Also, not a question, but something else I just realized:
Even if Eli would have been able to get the book itself to Alcatraz, it would have most likely been worthless. What are the odds that anyone there or within a 100 mile radius could even read brail? The book itself was NOTHING. Eli was everything.
Edit:
HUELEN10 said:
My interpretation was that he had just found that backpack somewhere on his travels. I don't believe he ever actually gives his name to anyone, in the film. So when
he dies,
Gary Whitta
Member
HUELEN10 said:
I'm glad you picked up on that. It's one of my favorite moments in the original script and I'm really pleased it made it into the finished film but a lot of people don't catch it. It's kind of a blink-and-you'll-miss-it moment which I like because we don't make a big deal out out of it; it's just there. I just thought it was important to establish at some point in the story that Eli was an everyman, a nobody before he was chosen for this divine purpose. That kinda came out of the traditional of biblical heroes like Noah and Job who were people of really humble origins before God chose to put them to these epic tests. Same with various sainted figures throughout history. Eli was intended to be a character in that tradition so I thought that little moment with the K-Mart badge was really important so people understood he was nobody special in the world before.
Gary Whitta
Member
GDJustin said:
I think there's about 12-15 clues that were written into the script and then a lot more came during production, mostly out of Denzel's performance. The boots thing was in the script but Denzel really sold it with the subtle way he does it; the iPod thing was 100% Denzel.
Gary Whitta
Member
"My name is Eli. I have a King James Bible in my possession." It's the one and only time anyone ever says his name in the film, but it's there.GDJustin said:
It's his badge, he used to work at K-Mart.
I loved the way Eli was a tribute to the man-with-no name-and-no-background westerns.
You know, stranger comes to town!
So many things open to interpretation. This was a great film. I loved every minute of it. At times even leaning forward. So engaging.
God. that was a great film.
By the way. Is the script available online? I'd like to read it.
You know, stranger comes to town!
So many things open to interpretation. This was a great film. I loved every minute of it. At times even leaning forward. So engaging.
God. that was a great film.
By the way. Is the script available online? I'd like to read it.
Gary Whitta said:
Ah, oops. I missed him giving his name
That's great, though. Gives hope to K-Mart employees the world over
For the record I'm an atheist but I'm not offended by films with a religious nature (or upset by people with religious faith in real life)... and I really really liked Book of Eli. In fact I think my being an atheist probably helped my enjoyment of the film. It makes the study of faith more interesting to watch.
When we were walking out, I commented to my wife that the film is a kind-of crazy juxtaposition of violence and action with real, meditative faith. If you're a 20-something male and also a hardcore believing Christian, this is probably your new favorite film :lol The movie really has no right to work as well as it does. And yet... it does.
HUELEN10
Member
Even though no one will probably care, I love the fact that
There is just so many little things that keep you thinking, I love it!
the King James Version of the bible is the first thing to be printed with Alcatraz's new press. Seeing "Alcatraz Press" on the bible made it even better! Was Alcatraz itself an intentional metaphor of some sorts? I mean, I know that some of my christian buddies refer to the bible as a rock, or the rock, and we all know Alcatraz is known as the same thing to many. Also, love the fact that Tanakh (Jew bible for those not in the know) is the Artscroll Stone Edition, which is regarded as THE one to get English, sort of how the KJV is THE main go-to version of the bible
There is just so many little things that keep you thinking, I love it!
UltimaPooh
Member
The way the film looks didn't really do it for me (haven't seen it yet.) I would like to read the script by Gary before going seeing it so I can see how well he did on his end before it was given off to the production crew.
Gary Whitta said:
Gary I'll start this out by saying that I am a christian man. I have many faults and only god knows how hard I try to set those straight. I think I took from this movie what you and the hughes brothers expected me to take from this movie, my own personal meaning. Ive seen my fair share of fundamental christian movies that although I know their heart is in the right place, I feel that they are just too heavy handed in the story telling that it begins to grate on you. Not once when I was watching the movie did feel that I was being pendered to or having a religous theology forced down my throat. Is this a christian movie, would be the question that many people feel the need to jump to, or is it merely a movie that uses the most familiar book ever written in literature ? I feel its the latter.
I also found that maybe in other parts of the world it could be assumed that the torah or koran might have been used in the same fashion. There is no other ending that could have fit the movie or that you could have given it, none would have fit so perfectly.
My final thought is that I am so grateful for a movie that doesn't make fun of beliefs that are christian because in hollywood we are easy targets through our own faults and from others. Oh and my wife a self proclaimed girly girl, loved the movie... best thing shes seen in a long time
From what I can gather this is your first major movie script. Congrats on the success. I have a couple of questions if you find time and the inclination to answer them.
Did you spend much time on the set?
How much were you consulted during the filming as far as changes to the script and how it would affect the storyline?
Hopefully this isn't something you've answered before as I haven't been keeping up with the whole thing.
Cheers.
Did you spend much time on the set?
How much were you consulted during the filming as far as changes to the script and how it would affect the storyline?
Hopefully this isn't something you've answered before as I haven't been keeping up with the whole thing.
Cheers.
akachan ningen
Member
MWS Natural said:
Hell yes. John Q for one. Wasn't just bad, it was horrific.
My brother and his girlfriend saw it this weekend and both loved it so much they told me I needed to go see it. Talked to my parents this weekend for my Mom's birthday and she said she heard it was a good film and asked if I had seen it yet. So it must be gettting good word of mouth buzz which is good. My girlfriend and I went to see it Friday night but the theater was so packed we decided to put it off till next weekend.
DarkGiygas
Member
Really enjoyed the movie, and definitely got a Fallout vibe like others in this thread have mentioned. Denzel has his Melee Weapons skill at 100!
Dolla Dolla
Member
Hey Gary. Saw the film over the weekend and I have a few comments / questions / observations.
Absolutely loved this film and looking forward to seeing it again soon!
At the end of the movie when the camera zooms into Eli's eyes, they appear to be glazed over. This may have been discussed already, but I wanted to know which of these scenarios is likely: 1) He was blind the entire film due to the "Flash" or 2) He was blinded by the "Flash" but granted sight to complete his journey and deliver the word to the People who needed it?
Regardless of which it is, I thought it was great how his senses were heightened (hearing, smelling, etc) and how he touched things as a blind person would when he was searching.
Regardless of which it is, I thought it was great how his senses were heightened (hearing, smelling, etc) and how he touched things as a blind person would when he was searching.
Absolutely loved this film and looking forward to seeing it again soon!
Gary Whitta
Member
Thanks for that, means a lot. One of the things that's most gratifying to me is that we managed to make a movie about a notoriously difficult and controversial subject without offending Christians or turning off non-faith based audiences. It was a really tricky tightrope to walk but I think we managed it. Christian audiences and "believers" of all stripe overwhelmingly love the film, I think they're kinda surprised to see a real Hollywood movie with real production values that doesn't automatically mock or otherwise put down their beliefs.hednik4am said:Gary I'll start this out by saying that I am a christian man. I have many faults and only god knows how hard I try to set those straight. I think I took from this movie what you and the hughes brothers expected me to take from this movie, my own personal meaning. Ive seen my fair share of fundamental christian movies that although I know their heart is in the right place, I feel that they are just too heavy handed in the story telling that it begins to grate on you. Not once when I was watching the movie did feel that I was being pendered to or having a religous theology forced down my throat. Is this a christian movie, would be the question that many people feel the need to jump to, or is it merely a movie that uses the most familiar book ever written in literature ? I feel its the latter.
I also found that maybe in other parts of the world it could be assumed that the torah or koran might have been used in the same fashion. There is no other ending that could have fit the movie or that you could have given it, none would have fit so perfectly.
My final thought is that I am so grateful for a movie that doesn't make fun of beliefs that are christian because in hollywood we are easy targets through our own faults and from others. Oh and my wife a self proclaimed girly girl, loved the movie... best thing shes seen in a long time
What Dolla Dolla posted is the reason why I had thought Eli was
blind before the flash, and had sight afterward. The long zoom into his eyes at the end, showing them glazed over, was what led me to think that he had sight during the events of the movie, and lost his sight once he had completed his mission.
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