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[dragonelite]

If the 1080@60fps is true im count on my money sony.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

It'll be called "Playstation Orbis"

"I wanna git me one o' them ORBITZ!"

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

In regards to the name, do people in Japan even mention the PlayStation systems with Japanese numerals?

In every Japanese advertisement or speech I've seen, they always mention the PS2 and PS3 just as you would in English, just with a heavy accent.

holy shit, this is real? where is it from?

 

[phosphor112]

In regards to the name, do people in Japan even mention the PlayStation systems with Japanese numerals?

In every Japanese advertisement or speech I've seen, they always mention the PS2 and PS3 just as you would in English, just with a heavy accent.

I can't stop laughing. I love japanese game shows.

 

[jeff_rigby]

I love how every generation people say the next gen will run everything at 60fps when it's blatantly obvious that it won't because most developers will trade frame rate for other graphical flourishes and settle for 30. We'll have better-looking games that run at the same crappy frame rates.

I think the idea is:

1) if the developer can support 1080P60hz then he can support 1080P S3D @ 30hz.
2) There are going to be apps and overlays over running games and there should be a standard resolution to make it easier
3) Up-scaling from 1080P to 4K is supported in Sony 4K blu-ray players with an algorithm developed by Toshiba that can be supported in the PS4. It's similar to the code used in the PS3 to upscale DVD to 1080P.

 

[Mr. Fix]

"4th Used games are not readily run on the PS4.

* Sony is planning certain protections in the PS4, including perhaps an online pass or something similar.

7th The PS4 will not be backwards compatible with PS3 games.

8th Games need to be registered to PlayStation Network account.

10th Every PS4 should be shipped with a PS Move compatible controller and camera."

There are so many deal breakers on this list for me it's nonsense. This is my last gen of console gaming I guess. Certainly won't be going to MS, so Steam it is.

Pretty much why I don't think the rumor's true. No way.

 

[KageMaru]

I think the idea is:

1) if the developer can support 1080P60hz then he can support 1080P S3D @ 30hz.
2) There are going to be apps and overlays over running games and there should be a standard resolution to make it easier
3) Up-scaling from 1080P to 4K is supported in Sony 4K blu-ray players with an algorithm developed by Toshiba that can be supported in the PS4. It's similar to the code used in the PS3 to upscale DVD to 1080P.

None of that counters his point. The push for 3D is slowing down. Sure we will see 3D games next gen, but his point still stands that we'll still see studios push prettier pixels at the expense of the frame rate.

 

[Hobbun]

That the PS4 not being BC, and it being the most trustworthy rumor, means I won’t be purchasing a PS4 for a long time, if ever.

 

[i-Lo]

None of that counters his point. The push for 3D is slowing down. Sure we will see 3D games next gen, but his point still stands that we'll still see studios push prettier pixels at the expense of the frame rate.

Also think the whole 1080p60fps is BS. Sony won't mandate such demands on third parties if MS don't follow suite. And if ND and other Sony first parties can present a noticeable difference in visuals between 720p30fps vs 1080p60fps then I think Sony will most likely refrain from pushing the mandate even on their first parties.

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

No BC is standard and we should all be used to it by now.

And anyway, if you want to play PS3 games, you still have your PS3.

 

[jeff_rigby]

My point is, how would they do it on THEIR end... they need to have hardware to run it. Surely they aren't going to cluster hundreds of thousands of PS3's together... Cell blades aren't made anymore as IBM has abandoned Cell...

And they NEED bc. Saying they don't is just silly.

There is the other way to look at it, Gaikai server farms will probably be running AMD APUs so once it's compiled for an AMD APU they can just provide it via PSN as a downloadable PS4 program.

No BC is speculation that I hope is wrong. It appears from a:

1) 2011 article, Sony investing in R&D in China for PS3 China home grown games and

2) Sony recently got a 3C China certification that is a first step in selling the PS3 in China as possibly a multi-media console that also plays games or PC that plays games (both legal and bypass the 2000 game console ban) that Sony has targeted sales of the PS3 in China and third world countries. It should start after a 22nm refresh around 2014ish (Cheaper power efficient PS3).

3) If true then the PS3 has a much longer life and may be supported in the PS4 SoC.

With the refresh to 22nm will be the need for new security schemes which will require a separate firmware going forward. Optimally a major redesign needed in any case might have Sony moving to a PS3 fusion 1 SoC unified memory design using the Sony Cell MPA patent. You know the theory I had.

If the PS4 is to be a 22nm SOI SoC then I think it might have BC. IF it's a 28nm bulk process SoC then no as the two 1PPU4SPU CPU packages would have to be produced on 22nm SOI and 2.5D attached to the monolithic AMD APU chip core. First case has a near zero cost over the life of the PS4, just the impact to yield plus IP cost for the PPU from IBM and the second case something under $40 per PS4.

 

[jorgeton]

No BC is standard and we should all be used to it by now.

And anyway, if you want to play PS3 games, you still have your PS3.

It's such an antiquated way of doing things though. If consoles don't get with the times, then they deserve to die off.

 

[Limanima]

The thing that worries me the most is the "want to play online? pay a subscription!!".
This will get me off online play.

About the name PS4, I think it's possible to use diferent name outside of Japan.

No BC? Ok, remastered PS3 games incoming...

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

I love how much people freak out about no BC. It's such a moot point

 

[Hobbun]

No BC is standard and we should all be used to it by now.

And anyway, if you want to play PS3 games, you still have your PS3.

Maybe with your expectations it is standard. Not for mine (and many others).

And the PS3 won’t last forever, it isn’t the same quality as the old systems like the NES or SNES. Would like to know I am set for the next 6+ years in being able to play my PS3 games, as well. Nevermind the hassle of having to unhook my PS4 and hooking up my PS3.

I love how much people freak out about no BC. It's such a moot point

How so?

 

[Persona86]

I don't think all Japanese are this superstitious.

There are plenty of games with 4 in them. e.g Persona 4, FF4, SMT4, MGS4, Silent Hill 4, RE4 etc etc

Edit: oh damn I though the rumor was that they will change PS4 name because of substitutions, I read wrong.

 

[Mr. Fix]

I love how much people freak out about no BC. It's such a moot point

In the long run, it probably won't matter as much. Though the PS3 had the online going for a ton of it's games, so I could see why it's a slightly bigger deal than the transition from the PS2 to the PS3.

 

[Trogdor1123]

I love how much people freak out about no BC. It's such a moot point

I agree, you already have a console that plays the games. THey also talk that they will switch to the other brand if they dont have BC... well its not like the other brand is going to play them either.

 

[jeff_rigby]

None of that counters his point. The push for 3D is slowing down. Sure we will see 3D games next gen, but his point still stands that we'll still see studios push prettier pixels at the expense of the frame rate.

I'm reading that S3D will be really big next generation being supported by Head mounted glasses and more 3-D TVs as ATSC 2.0 brings OTA 3-D to consumers.

Display Port provides power and direct drive to LCD glasses making the Head mounted glasses very affordable. My guess is $199 holiday season 2014.

Look at this PDF presentation by a Sony Technical officer on S3D. Page 35 on is about the future with head mounted glasses. It's all about S3D and how important it is for immersive game playing. The same is in the leaked Xbox 720 powerpoint (Fortaleza glasses) .

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I love how much people freak out about no BC. It's such a moot point

Agreed. The worst part is that it's such a worthy sacrifice. Moving to x86 is a must and will benefit us a lot more than BC will.

 

[phosphor112]

There is the other way to look at it, Gaikai server farms will probably be running AMD APUs so once it's compiled for an AMD APU they can just provide it via PSN as a downloadable PS4 program.

No BC is speculation that I hope is wrong. It appears from a:

1) 2011 article, Sony investing in R&D in China for PS3 China home grown games and

2) Sony recently got a 3C China certification that is a first step in selling the PS3 in China as possibly a multi-media console that also plays games or PC that plays games (both legal and bypass the 2000 game console ban) that Sony has targeted sales of the PS3 in China and third world countries. It should start after a 22nm refresh around 2014ish (Cheaper power efficient PS3).

3) If true then the PS3 has a much longer life and may be supported in the PS4 SoC.

With the refresh to 22nm will be the need for new security schemes which will require a separate firmware going forward. Optimally a major redesign needed in any case might have Sony moving to a PS3 fusion 1 SoC unified memory design using the Sony Cell MPA patent. You know the theory I had.

If the PS4 is to be a 22nm SOI SoC then I think it might have BC. IF it's a 28nm bulk process SoC then no as the two 1PPU4SPU CPU packages would have to be produced on 22nm SOI and 2.5D attached to the monolithic AMD APU chip core. First case has a near zero cost over the life of the PS4, just the impact to yield plus IP cost for the PPU from IBM and the second case something under $40 per PS4.

I honestly think having a PPU/SPU module in there would benifit the overall device...

Gaikai should be used for instant PS4 demos and PS home. Zero loading.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

Was posted in another thread...I think it's just a rumour compilation/speculation piece. I'm not sure they're contributing any original new info.

I hope so. That no used game thingie sounds pretty crappy.

 

[KageMaru]

Also think the whole 1080p60fps is BS. Sony won't mandate such demands on third parties if MS don't follow suite. And if ND and other Sony first parties can present a noticeable difference in visuals between 720p30fps vs 1080p60fps then I think Sony will most likely refrain from pushing the mandate even on their first parties.

Well as I mentioned above, MS may be pushing for something similar:

Though I don't think it'll be strictly enforced by either company if this is at all true.

I'm reading that S3D will be really big next generation being supported by Head mounted glasses and more 3-D TVs as ATSC 2.0 brings OTA 3-D to consumers.

Display Port provides power and direct drive to LCD glasses making the Head mounted glasses very affordable. My guess is $199 holiday season 2014.

Look at this PDF presentation by a Sony Technical officer on S3D. Page 35 on is about the future with head mounted glasses. It's all about S3D and how important it is for immersive game playing.

Sure...

 

[Valnen]

Though I don't think it'll be strictly enforced by either company if this is at all true.

I hope it's STRONGLY discouraged by Microsoft and Sony to not release 1080p native software. 720p is the past just as much as 480i is.

 

[i-Lo]

Well as I mentioned above, MS may be pushing for something similar:

At this point I need to ask something:

Will this resolution mandate prejudice developers from implementing features that could enhance visual fidelity as a part of sacrifice made to uphold that resolution? For example, hypothetically does the implementation of this resolution prohibit including features like say Apex clothing, parallax mapping or any next gen visual tech that could drastically change the visual quality of a game free from such mandate?

 

[AmFreak]

They forgot to mention that it will launch with ZOE4.

 

[alr1ght]

How quick we forget the "standard" 720p this gen.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Maybe with your expectations it is standard. Not for mine (and many others).

And the PS3 won’t last forever, it isn’t the same quality as the old systems like the NES or SNES. Would like to know I am set for the next 6+ years in being able to play my PS3 games, as well. Nevermind the hassle of having to unhook my PS4 and hooking up my PS3.



How so?

The amount of people that actually care about BC or would look for it as a feature of a new console has only been shrinking and shrinking. The vast majority don't care. Of all of my gamer friends I am the only one on gaf or that spends anytime actually talking about games. I don't think one of them has mentioned the words BC since the PS2 era. Also it's slightly insane that people would boycott a new system for new games(why do you want a new system anyways if not for new experiences?) When they have the console necessary to play their old games its just....pointless

 

[jeff_rigby]

Rockstar’s Grand Theft Auto V will arrive just a few weeks and months before everyone expects the next generation PlayStation and Xbox to be formally announced. They’re pushing the current generation of consoles hard, that’s for sure, but why? Why aren’t they just aiming at next generation?

Why? Numbers. “We feel we can do some very impressive stuff and do it for a large audience,” said Dan Houser to IGN. This felt like the way… “There’ll be a much larger audience on PS3 than there will be on PS4.” And yes, he said PS4.

Which is a reason for BC in the PS4 for the first few years. But I thought that newer game engines could port between platforms very easily especially if to a more straight-forward design with more memory. So this on the face of it does not make sense unless not releasing for the PS4 because all the new platform stuff does not make financial sense in it'self because numbers have to be high enough is part of the chicken and egg of any new console.

What can Sony and Microsoft feature for next generation to make it attractive at launch besides; oh in the future there will be a ton of impressive 1080P games.

Regardless of what augmented reality and other dazzling features that may arise with the PS4 – would you agree that PS3 backwards compatibility with existing game discs is essential? Do you think it is possible to convert every single PS3 game to a streaming format for PS4 playback – we can see Sony having major problems with this.

At the end of the day, it is going to be a dire situation for Sony if GTA V owners cannot play the game on the PS4. Sony are not stupid though and we’re sure they are currently working out how to make everyone happy. Let us know your thoughts on a potential PS4 dilemma with backwards compatibility.

 

[jerd]

In regards to the name, do people in Japan even mention the PlayStation systems with Japanese numerals?

In every Japanese advertisement or speech I've seen, they always mention the PS2 and PS3 just as you would in English, just with a heavy accent.

I know this is totally irrelevant but this makes me so glad this thread got bumped and I stumbled into it. Wow.

 

[panty]

The only next-gen console I'll buy.

But "Used games are not readily run on the PS4." - hopefully this shit isn't true. Also couldn't care less for BC.

 

[IrishNinja]

No bc and no second hand games? Yea calling bs here.

first might (tragically) pan out, coupling with the 2nd...yeeesh
would kill a lotta hype for the system, i'd imagine. really hope that's not true

 

[thehypocrite]

Which is a reason for BC in the PS4 for the first few years. But I thought that newer game engines could port between platforms very easily especially if to a more straight-forward design with more memory. So this on the face of it does not make sense unless not releasing for the PS4 because all the new platform stuff does not make financial sense in it'self because numbers have to be high enough is part of the chicken and egg of any new console.

What can Sony and Microsoft feature for next generation to make it attractive at launch besides; oh in the future there will be a ton of impressive 1080P games.

If backwards compatibility will take away resources or money away from features that will make the PS4 a more advance device it can go the way of the dodo. Look at the Wii U CPU how it's crippled by sustaining an old architecture, it seems to be weaker than even the Xbox 360 CPU.

If Sony can offer BC as an optional feature at an added cost, great for the people that care about it, I don't care about legacy software, I care about new and exciting software and features.

 

[Angelus Errare]

In regards to the name, do people in Japan even mention the PlayStation systems with Japanese numerals?

In every Japanese advertisement or speech I've seen, they always mention the PS2 and PS3 just as you would in English, just with a heavy accent.

They never use Japanese numerals for the PS consoles, much like they don't use them for most videogame titles. They use the English word for 2, and 3 respectively.

This whole "They want call it PS4 because 4 in Japanese is "shi" (They would most likely have used yon anyway....) shi means death" thing is one of those "You may not know much about Japanese culture, I'm an expert," moments.

 

[Psychotext]

Without BC I wont be buying until it's years into its life. I still have a ton of games I want to play on the PS3 but haven't had time for.

 

[Epcott]

Hmmm, does the no BC include even PSN purchases? If so, that's pretty stupid.

 

[Always-honest]

None of that counters his point. The push for 3D is slowing down. Sure we will see 3D games next gen, but his point still stands that we'll still see studios push prettier pixels at the expense of the frame rate.

For all i care they leave it out completely. I've played a few games in 3D and it jus adds nothing imo.

 

[H_Prestige]

Hmmm, does the no BC include even PSN purchases? If so, that's pretty stupid.

Yup. No ps3 BC would also seriously fuck over PS+ subscribers if you think about it. Not a good thing to do if they're trying to build up that service.

There's simply no excuse to not have ps1/ps2 BC, so if ps4 doesn't offer that then Sony is full of shit. BC with ps3 might be complicated, but it needs to be there. Don't care how it's done, but the ps4 needs to play ps3 discs and ps3 games from psn.

 

[Anth0ny]

Couldn't care less about BC. PS3 ain't going anywhere.

 

[faridmon]

Playstation Shi

Translation's Note: Shi means Death.

 

[GraveRobberX]

The number 4 in Japan is pronounced "shi". "Shi" also means death. Many hospitals in Japan have therefore no room with the number 4 or even a fourth floor - similar to a few high-rise buildings in the West no 13th Floor have.

How many times have I read this, it almost feels like a rumor from the PS1 days

ZOMG if we ever reach PS4.. PSDeath! wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

 

[Oshimai]

i don't think #10 is true. it would make more sense to include a Vita bundled w/ the console if Sony is going to continue down the route of Cross-Buy/Controller/Play

 

[sleepykyo]

I love how much people freak out about no BC. It's such a moot point

This isn't the same as PS2-PS3. The loss of BC just devalues the PS2 library. The loss of BC devalues both the PS3 library and the PSN account.

Long term it becomes meaningless just like now, but seems like early adopters might as well just wait until they are done with the PS3 library now or just get a 720.

 

[pharmboy044]

Yup. No ps3 BC would also seriously fuck over PS+ subscribers if you think about it. Not a good thing to do if they're trying to build up that service.

There's simply no excuse to not have ps1/ps2 BC, so if ps4 doesn't offer that then Sony is full of shit. BC with ps3 might be complicated, but it needs to be there. Don't care how it's done, but the ps4 needs to play ps3 discs and ps3 games from psn.

I don't care a bit about physical discs not playing on the PS4. All I ask is to have my PSN profile transfer over to the PS4 without any issues. I need my PSN purchased content available on the PS4. If that's not the case then I'm sticking with my PS3 and no PS4 for me.

 

[H_Prestige]

I don't care a bit about physical discs not playing on the PS4. All I ask is to have my PSN profile transfer over to the PS4 without any issues. I need my PSN purchased content available on the PS4. If that's not the case then I'm sticking with my PS3 and no PS4 for me.

Unless ps4 doesn't have a disc drive, can't have one without the other.

 

[Perkel]

1080p/60fps - anyone who knows about hardware a little knows that this is possible. Hell even greater resolutions won't be problem now. I personally expect that some of games like Stardust will run 4k. Sure there is problem of Effects vs FPS but right now newer cards from ATI and NVidia run very good with resolutions like 1080p to point which decreasing resolution don't give that much benefits.

BC - Normal BC is get by including parts of old consoles in mainboard which is costly. PS3 US had PS2 inside and PS1. With grow of DD and emulators (introduced in PS3 firware) i don't see point of including normal BC option which will increase price of system. Especially if newer systems are more complex like PS3. I totaly expect it to not have BC at premiere which will be later added as emulator in firmware and games are already on playstation store.

Used games - It is hard to tell but with rise of Online passes it is totaly possible for them to include it. Right now people buy games on Steam and don't complain that they can't sell it to other people. Problem is that with it knowing corporate soul we won't see often sales like on steam.

8-16GB ram- My opinion. It will be again devided on Vram and normal ram. 8GB of GDDR5 ram is super costly 16GB is even more costly. I thing they will go with 2GB GDDR5 ram with second pool of 8GB DDR4 ram. It may also contain eDRAM. 1-2GB of that 8GB will be for OS and apps since it will be multitasking device. 16GB of ram is only possible if they will use only DDR3 or DDR4 ram without Vram. But that would be huge problem for system which will try to do next gen games.

CPU - total unknown

GPU - i also share idea that it will be multicore.


Overall i expect it to be in therms of PC hardware on mid range with certain elements like CPU being above or equal to best PC CPUs.

Closed platform with above hardware will again give normal console cycle (meaning consoles being above PC for year or two)

 

[tinfoilhatman]

Yea if my PSN games don't play I won't be buying for quite awile, I could care less about disc based games though.

 

[i-Lo]

8-16GB ram- My opinion. It will be again devided on Vram and normal ram. 8GB of GDDR5 ram is super costly 16GB is even more costly. I thing they will go with 2GB GDDR5 ram with second pool of 8GB DDR4 ram. It may also contain eDRAM. 1-2GB of that 8GB will be for OS and apps since it will be multitasking device. 16GB of ram is only possible if they will use only DDR3 or DDR4 ram without Vram. But that would be huge problem for system which will try to do next gen games.

The dev kits released are of two varieties, 8GB and 16GB. The system itself either have 4GB or 8GB (least and most respectively). The only thing is that we don't know the type of RAM that is being used in the systems. A while ago, I speculated that the two devkits may have different RAM speeds. I assumed the lower capacity would be faster and vice versa.

There are rumours about DDR4 but that is pretty uncertain. However, if it were to implemented it would only make more sense given its attributes of much better efficiency and data throughput advantage of DDR3. There have been a lot of talk as well about 3D or 2.5D memory stacking and how ultra-wide bus I/O could mitigate the need for the fastest RAM available. As such, GDDR5 may not in the PS4 at all and if it were, I'd bet everything that 8GB dev kit would sport it.

Lastly, the memory will be unified this time around. Sony understands that need to let the developers apportion amounts for tasks as per their needs.

 

[Perkel]

The dev kits released are of two varieties, 8GB and 16GB. The system itself either have 4GB or 8GB (least and most respectively). The only thing is that we don't know the type of RAM that is being used in the systems. A while ago, I speculated that the two devkits may have different RAM speeds. I assumed the lower capacity would be faster and vice versa.

There are rumours about DDR4 but that is pretty uncertain. However, if it were to implemented it would only make more sense given its attributes of much better efficiency and data throughput advantage of DDR3. There have been a lot of talk as well about 3D or 2.5D memory stacking and how ultra-wide bus I/O could mitigate the need for the fastest RAM available. As such, GDDR5 may not in the PS4 at all and if it were, I'd bet everything that 8GB dev kit would sport it.

Lastly, the memory will be unified this time around. Sony understands that need to let the developers apportion amounts for tasks as per their needs.

my point for dividing ram is exactly what you said.

Unified pool is pro dev and we can all agree it is better for system. But if they won't come up with resolution to bus speed giving system slow Ram will be huge bottleneck especially if next gen will require high bathwind which is 99% sure they will need.

Without it, it is either devided pool what i described or Nintendo Wii U way (meaning no next gen games).

Of course there is quick resolution to that problem meaning 4-8GB of GDDR5 but we both now that won't happen because cost will be to high.

As of 2.5D 3D stacking i can't say anything about it as much as anyone. Jeff as always provide a lot of usefull info but until we see it being used anywhere in industry we don't know if it will even make on time for new consoles.

 

[Mit-]

I really hope the majority of PSN games are able to be transferred/played on PS4. I have no hope at all for the full gigantic blu-ray PS3 titles to be playable though. Digital or physical copies. Architecture is so stupid and unique that if they move to something more familiar and easy to develop for, chances are it can't run PS3 stuff and especially not emulate it. Console generations with this digital content need to pay attention to the PC market though. Upgrading should no longer mean an inability to play the games of the past.

I'm sure Microsoft will make sure their next console will be backwards-compatible, but they're in a much, much better situation than Sony.