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[Yasae]

Just to be clear here, if bought a stolen or illegitimate key and Ubisoft got no money from that, you are not one of their consumers.

The action brought on by devs and pubs here is flimsy. There's a site allegedly selling stolen keys to their game - which I'd figure they have in a registry - but they have literally no recourse to stop this besides revoking keys in use?

There's no way to prosecute chargebacks? There's no way to track down merchandise? I mean come on, this is first year detective stuff.

 

[Mononoke]

Just to be clear here, if bought a stolen or illegitimate key and Ubisoft got no money from that, you are not one of their consumers.

If someone legit bought the key, and thus gave Ubisoft money. Someone turns around and sells the item they now own (ie. the key that isn't activated). The person that has the key now, certainly is their consumer once they activate the key. I'm curious to see how this holds up legally (being able to sell a key that you paid for, that isn't activated yet). It gets tricky, since in certain areas around the world, the keys are infinitely cheaper because that market it's being sold in is developing.

So the question is, can someone in that market buy it, then turn around and sell it? I'm curious legally, if it would hold up (being able to sell a key that isn't activated). If it's in the terms in service that you can't sell a key, then okay. But I still would be interested if that would hold up legally (since most goods can be sold after you buy it. The buyer can do with what they please once they own something. With license they can't, but that's because you already activated it. IMO the key isn't a license until someone activates it. Which is why I don't agree with you that the person activating it is NOT a consumer. They are. Only way they aren't, is if the key was stolen, and thus Ubisoft never got money from that specific key).

If the key is stolen, there is no discussion. It's stolen, you bought something stolen. It's the risk you take buying something second hand.

Either way, Ubisoft needs to come out and explain these bans (because it's impacting a lot of people).

 

[Kusagari]

So does this effect GameDealDaily?

 

[Fantastapotamus]

The action brought on by devs and pubs here is flimsy. There's a site allegedly selling stolen keys to their game - which I'd figure they have in a registry - but they have literally no recourse to stop this besides revoking keys in use?

There's no way to prosecute chargebacks? There's no way to track down merchandise? I mean come on, this is first year detective stuff.

Why do you think they don't do that as well?

 

[ISee]

They may take our games, but they will never take our freedom.

We should raise our black flags and pirate their games in unity.

 

[MUnited83]

The action brought on by devs and pubs here is flimsy. There's a site allegedly selling stolen keys to their game - which I'd figure they have in a registry - but they have literally no recourse to stop this besides revoking keys in use?

There's no way to prosecute chargebacks? There's no way to track down merchandise? I mean come on, this is first year detective stuff.

How would you exactly prosecute the chargebacks? Most of people that do this shit obviously don't use their own credit card, they use stolen ones. So the chargebacks themselves are initiated by the people that got their credit card stolen in the first place. How do you suggest Ubisoft "prosecute" that?

 

[Polk]

.

Ubisoft is breaking the law here, for certain in the EU, regarding consumer goods.

I don't think there is EU law that allows you can keep stolen good even if you bought it in good faith. I'm sure in some countries (ie. Poland) you can still be prosecuted for such.

Buy from legit sites. Done.

That was easy, wasn't it?

Actually, no. It isn't easy, especially when sites like G2A are advertised through youtubers and even on gaf.

 

[CosmicQueso]

/end thread

There should be no deactivations, no after the fact screwing of consumers. If they want to cancel any keys bought from now and beyond, that's fine, but no rug pulling.

They never put the rug down...

 

[Andodalf]

"I wanted a game on the cheap so I bought it stolen, but that's not my fault, I should get to keep it!"
You say this is fine
"I wanted a laptop on the cheap so I bought it stolen, but that's not my fault, I should get to keep it!
but would be enraged if someone refused to return YOUR laptop. If it got stolen, and someone bought it, would you let them keep it, since they bought it fair and square?
Ubi is taking back stolen goods. Simple as that.


EDIT: In America, possession of stolen goods, even if you don't know, is illegal, and you must forfeit them, even if the owner isn't found. The police holds the items. So Ubi is kinda doing people a favor.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

If you buy from authorized resellers or the company selling the product directly this is never an issue.

If you want to point bad things about digital future point at Rockstar and removing content (songs) from GTA VC and SA. This move that Ubisoft made is standard practice when issues with keys are discovered.

Buy from legit sites. Done.

That was easy, wasn't it?

As many others have mentioned, there are several ways Ubisoft could have went about this without removing what people paid for. Could have helped their image, but right not this negatively impacts their fans.

Ubisoft is also not a generally beloved company, after all, and this only cements the negative image many have.

 

[Nzyme32]

Wow, for those who question why many people don't want physical games to go anywhere, can you see why now? I mostly purchase digitally, but moves like this are truly disgusting and I hope games don't see digital-only for a long time..

Can't believe Ubisoft is doing this.

It really isn't hard. You buy from authorised and known legitimate retailers, and you are absolutely fine.

G2A is known for being scummy, and having it's keys revoked due to them being illegitimately obtained.

As many others have mentioned, there are several ways Ubisoft could have went about this without removing what people paid for. Could have helped their image, but right not this negatively impacts their fans.

Ubisoft is also not a generally beloved company, after all, and this only cements the negative image many have.

No, the point of contention here is that technically, those users have gone through a seller that has not paid Ubisoft in any legitimate way, hence the keys being revoked as is common practice. If you want to complain about Ubisoft, complain that they haven't made it clear exactly why the keys are revoked.

 

[CambriaRising]

Guys, you aren't allowed to keep stolen goods. Whether you knew they were stolen or not.

You need to take this up with G2A to try to get your money back.

 

[MUnited83]

As many others have mentioned, there are several ways Ubisoft could have went about this without removing what people paid for. Could have helped their image, but right not this negatively impacts their fans.

Ubisoft is also not a generally beloved company, after all, and this only cements the negative image many have.

Do tell what those magical ways are.

 

[legend166]

Those talking about "benefiting from globalization", I think it is pretty obvious that India, Russia, and other territories only get heavily discounted games as an effort to make in-roads to markets that are traditionally havens for piracy. These games are budgeted based on launch price being $60 (or the EU equivalent). Companies allow a small subset of sales to go for much less, because it is better than everyone stealing the title in those regions.

Region locking sucks. Some regions get screwed out of certain titles due to censorship and other factors, and who doesn't love saving money. However, everyone getting what is supposed to be a $60 title for $15-25 is not a realistic option. If region locking became illegal tomorrow, publishers would just stop selling titles at discounted rates in developing markets, and the long term growth of the industry would be stifled in much of Asia, Africa, and Latin America.

If you don't want to spend $60 on some AAA title, wait 3-6 months and get it at $20-40.

I agree with this completely. I hate region locking but in rare circumstances it makes sense.

 

[Yasae]

How would you exactly prosecute the chargebacks? Most of people that do this shit obviously don't use their own credit card, they use stolen ones. So the chargebacks themselves are initiated by the people that got their credit card stolen in the first place. How do you suggest Ubisoft "prosecute" that?

Nobody reported the cards stolen? Where did the sales take place? What are the details of G2A's seller transactions?

 

[Caffeine]

accept the fact that it was stolen get your refund from the reseller learn from this and stick to legit sites.

 

[MUnited83]

Nobody reported the cards stolen? Where did the sales take place? What are the details of G2A's seller transactions?

Obviously someone reported the cards stolen and that's why the keys get revoked...


Where did the sales take place? Who knows. Again, doesn't matter until the chargeback happens and then you have to revoke the keys. You don't have a way of knowing which transactions will be chargebacked or not.

Details of G2A seller transactions don't really matter to the case.

 

[Doombacon]

As many others have mentioned, there are several ways Ubisoft could have went about this without removing what people paid for. Could have helped their image, but right not this negatively impacts their fans.

Ubisoft is also not a generally beloved company, after all, and this only cements the negative image many have.

Oh man, I never thought I would see the day that I was accused of being an Ubisoft apologist. This thread has been a treat.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Nobody reported the cards stolen? Where did the sales take place? What are the details of G2A's seller transactions?

The consumers who're affected should be contacting and asking these questions to G2A to try and get a refund.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Are 100% of the keys Ubisoft took away stolen? What % are we talking about?

 

[Nzyme32]

For the sake of people that think Ubisoft are the only ones that do this:

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Oh man, I never thought I would see the day that I was accused of being an Ubisoft apologist. This thread has been a treat.

Some of you need to calm down.. I'm just trying to understand how people can be alright with a company taking away what you paid for. If G2A was widely known as some scummy site, Ubisoft should have made that painfully clear before attempting to deny people of their purchases.

This isn't some shady, dark alley dealer selling TV's out of their trunk.. you know what you're getting into when you look for that. Realize that there may be people who purchased from G2A who may not be as "hardcore" in knowing about the gaming industry as others.

"It's really not that hard to understand."

 

[Fantastapotamus]

Oh man, I never thought I would see the day that I was accused of being an Ubisoft apologist. This thread has been a treat.

Tell me about it. Just because people (me included!) don't like Ubisoft right now doesn't mean they need to bend over and let those scammers have their way with them.

Sorry but "I paid 20€ for this new game from a site on the internet known for selling stolen keys, but I don't care wether this key was stolen or not I want my game! And I'm gonna soley blame Ubisoft instead of the actual seller!" is a really hilarious thing to read.

Some of you need to calm down.. I'm just trying to understand how people can be alright with a company taking away what you paid for. If G2A was widely known as some scummy site, Ubisoft should have made that painfully clear before attempting to deny people of their purchases.

This isn't some shady, dark alley dealer selling TV's out of their trunk.. you know what you're getting into when you look for that. Realize that there may be people who purchased from G2A who may not be as "hardcore" in knowing about the gaming industry as others.

"It's really not that hard to understand."

You didn't pay them. You basically paid a thief and are now upset that the rightfull owner wants his stuff back.

 

[L.O.R.D]

for the people who bought from G2A and your games been revoked
did you buy the game directly from G2A or a seller that sell the same game cheaper then G2A ?
as this moment , Far Cry 4 is $31.37

but the sellers are selling the game for $26 and up

 

[Andodalf]

Are 100% of the keys Ubisoft took away stolen? What % are we talking about?

seems that way, as not all keys from some retailers are down, some still work, and I doubt that would just be random.

 

[jwhit28]

Some of you need to calm down.. I'm just trying to understand how people can be alright with a company taking away what you paid for. If G2A was widely known as some scummy site, Ubisoft should have made that painfully clear before attempting to deny people of their purchases.

This isn't some shady, dark alley dealer selling TV's out of their trunk.. you know what you're getting into when you look for that. Realize that there may be people who purchased from G2A who may not be as "hardcore" in knowing about the gaming industry as others.

"It's really not that hard to understand."

Then get a refund from G2A

 

[scitek]

I don't see the point in removing the games from accounts. They're already there, the person's already likely played it, and Ubisoft won't possibly get money from them for a replacement copy. They should only be concerned with shutting down the sales of illegitimate keys in the future, not wasting their time revoking access to ones from the past. It's akin to if EA tried taking back every game that was gotten for free when that Origin coupon was glitched a couple years back. They knew better than to try. It doesn't look good, even if they're legally allowed to.

 

[diamount]

Because it's the correct humane way to handle it, Ubisoft don't lose out (because they also very well know the most users won't spend another 40 dollars buying a new game..), and it generates goodwill. Simple as that.

Humane? This isn't a case where a starving person stole some food, it's video game keys. If someone buys a key half the normal retail price then they should suspect it's origins are probably criminal related, i.e purchased with stolen cc details and that is they risk they take. Not to mention depriving the dev of the revenue.

 

[cyberheater]

What cheap key sites are legit?

 

[Caffeine]

for the people who bought from G2A and your games been revoked
did you buy the game directly from G2A or a seller that sell the same game cheaper then G2A ?
as this moment , Far Cry 4 is $31.37

but the sellers are selling the game for $26 and up

it was a paypal sponsored g2a sale the game was $36

What cheap key sites are legit?

apparently greenmangaming, gamersgate, and nuuvem are.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

I don't see the point in removing the games from accounts. They're already there, the person's already likely played it, and Ubisoft won't possibly get money from them for a replacement copy. They should only be concerned with shutting down the sales of illegitimate keys in the future, not wasting their time revoking access to ones from the past.

And again: They can't do that. A stolen key is not immediately recognized as such. It takes time.

It's akin to if EA tried taking back every game that was gotten for free when that Origin coupon was glitched a couple years back. They knew better than to try. It doesn't look good, even if they're legally allowed to.

No that's not the same. That was EA's fault.

What cheap key sites are legit?

Rule of life: If you see something that is too good to be true, it probably is not true or illegal
Legit sites are Greenmangaming, the Humble Store, Amazon, Gamersgate or Steam (obviously)

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

seems that way, as not all keys from some retailers are down, some still work, and I doubt that would just be random.

Ahh, I wonder what will happen to G2A after this poor publicity, if their image wasn't already as bad as it is now.

I don't see the point in removing the games from accounts. They're already there, the person's already likely played it, and Ubisoft won't possibly get money from them for a replacement copy. They should only be concerned with shutting down the sales of illegitimate keys in the future, not wasting their time revoking access to ones from the past. It's akin to if EA tried taking back every game that was gotten for free when that Origin coupon was glitched a couple years back. They knew better than to try. It doesn't look good, even if they're legally allowed to.

This is how I feel.


EDIT:

And again: They can't do that. A stolen key is not immediately recognized as such. It takes time.

Curious to know why these companies don't make it obvious to their consumers about where to purchase codes from then if this was known for so long.

It's not Ubi's responsibility, or anyone elses for that matter, to give out free games to people who unknowingly purchased stolen goods. Regardless of how upstanding looking the company that sold the stolen goods came from.

I understand that, but Ubisoft doesn't have the greatest image and this only makes them look worse, especially to those who don't post on forums and have these discussions.

 

[Doombacon]

Some of you need to calm down.. I'm just trying to understand how people can be alright with a company taking away what you paid for. If G2A was widely known as some scummy site, Ubisoft should have made that painfully clear before attempting to deny people of their purchases.

This isn't some shady, dark alley dealer selling TV's out of their trunk.. you know what you're getting into when you look for that. Realize that there may be people who purchased from G2A who may not be as "hardcore" in knowing about the gaming industry as others.

"It's really not that hard to understand."

It's not Ubi's responsibility, or anyone elses for that matter, to give out free games to people who unknowingly purchased stolen goods. Regardless of how upstanding looking the company that sold the stolen goods came from.

 

[iNvid02]

seems like a difficult problem to eliminate entirely, impossible even.

maybe the experience of having keys revoked will prompt people not to repeat their purchasing decisions. and it should give G2A a headache in dealing with frustrated customers and possibly make them pay more attention to whats happening on their marketplace.

no skin off ubi's back come to think of it aside from a bit of bad PR. they must relish in it at this point lmao

 

[_machine]

Some of you need to calm down.. I'm just trying to understand how people can be alright with a company taking away what you paid for. If G2A was widely known as some scummy site, Ubisoft should have made that painfully clear before attempting to deny people of their purchases.

Ubisoft can not control all unauthorized resellers, especially on a site like G2A where the keys come from the reseller. All they can really do is to trust the consumer to use authorizer resellers. Those sites that are authorized resellers probably have that mentioned somewhere, but G2A does not do that. Ubisoft is not really capable of striking down these sites (just like no other publisher can really pull down any key site, even they have been proven to sell stolen keys, like G2Play).

This isn't some shady, dark alley dealer selling TV's out of their trunk.. you know what you're getting into when you look for that. Realize that there may be people who purchased from G2A who may not be as "hardcore" in knowing about the gaming industry as others.

But Ubisoft really can not do anything about this. These sites appear legit even when they are not, but as proven with some many other sites, they are really hard to strike down or inform consumers about them. Especially in the case of G2A, which is a marketplace instead of a pure (unauthorized) reseller.

"It's really not that hard to understand."

It is, because differentiating between a legit reseller and a site like G2A, which provides market for stolen keys, is hard and publishers are having a hard time fightings against them.

I personally welcome Ubisoft's move as these sites are really helping push my favorite platform, PC, in the "race to zero", where unauthorized sellers are taking the cut from the publishers and developers and the most logical move is to make the consumers pay directly to the publisher in micro-transactions that on surface seem more easily approachable to products that cost ten times as much (which in reality is more expensive to the enthusiast user).

 

[Yasae]

The consumers who're affected should be contacting and asking these questions to G2A to try and get a refund.

Sure, but if it's really such a problem then it's very odd to see publishers just kind of sitting back. The site cannot avoid culpability if there's evidence its keys are bad and it's running this many transactions. The craigslist defense does not apply.

Maybe it's because not all keys are stolen and Ubisoft makes a nifty profit from this site?

 

[scitek]

And again: They can't do that. A stolen key is not immediately recognized as such. It takes time.

In all honesty, fighting something like this is as pointless as battling piracy. They won't put a stop to it, and the people that bought illegitimate keys won't magically become full-price-paying customers because you took their cheaper option away. It's a waste of time and resources, just like DRM.

No that's not the same. That was EA's fault.

Not technically the same, no, as no money was exchanged, but it's just not a good look for a company to encroach on someone's account and remove content. It pisses people off and makes them feel violated. Legal or not, it's just not wise IMO.

 

[diamount]

seems like a difficult problem to eliminate entirely, impossible even.

maybe the experience of having keys revoked will prompt people not to repeat their purchasing decisions. and it should give G2A a headache in dealing with frustrated customers and possibly make them pay more attention to whats happening on their marketplace.

no skin off ubi's back come to think of it aside from a bit of bad PR

It isn't a difficult problem to eliminate, fraudsters purchase keys from an authorised reseller, a month later when the chargebacks come rolling in the reseller receives and sends a notification to the publisher, this case Ubisoft and they will deactivate those affected keys if they have been used.

 

[Setsuna]

What cheap key sites are legit?

G2A is legit for games that have the companies badge on it. Which is ironic because those companies either dont produce games or are free 2 play publishers

 

[madjoki]

What cheap key sites are legit?

Depending on how you define cheap.

Most of time, all legal sites do sell at MSRP, (because it's in contract to sell at certain price). Some sites do offer discounts/coupons, out of their margin.

Any sales are short-term promotions that lasts from hours to days, rarely longer. (Like steam dailies)

Any site that has basically 'everything at -50%' is grey area reseller or sells region locked stuff.

Doing research helps too: http://isthereanydeal.com/ lists legit sites. Also sometimes official site lists resellers.

 

[_machine]

Sure, but if it's really such a problem then it's very odd to see publishers just kind of sitting back. The site cannot avoid culpability if there's evidence its keys are bad and it's running this many transactions. The craigslist defense does not apply.

Maybe it's because not all keys are stolen and Ubisoft makes a nifty profit from this site?

Fighting against these sites in legal ways is extremely hard; they are normally in countries were IP rights are hard a buy (Eastern Europe for example), they are only acting as a middle man (where the consumer acknowledges that the site in question is not responsible for the legality of the key), and the origins of the keys are hard to use as eveidence even though Ubisoft can be confident enough to disable them.

Ubisoft themselves do not make a nifty profit from these sites, we are really talking about a few percents of the whole products value (I can't remember where this number comes from, but it was a research/article on unauthorized resellers) and the problems that can come with the purchases (lack of language selection, locked regions) are something that the consumers hold Ubisoft themselves responsible most of the time.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Sure, but if it's really such a problem then it's very odd to see publishers just kind of sitting back. The site cannot avoid culpability if there's evidence its keys are bad and it's running this many transactions. The craigslist defense does not apply.

Maybe it's because not all keys are stolen and Ubisoft makes a nifty profit from this site?

Sitting back how? It's still unknown whether or not they're doing more than just banning keys, someone earlier in the thread said that apparently a bunch of keys were removed as well from the search.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

In all honesty, fighting something like this is as pointless as battling piracy. They won't put a stop to it, and the people that bought illegitimate keys won't magically become full-price-paying customers because you took their cheaper option away. It's a waste of time and resources, just like DRM.

So they should just let it happen? If people would regularly steal stuff from you and resell it would you just be like "Eh, can't do anything about it *shrug*"?
How is this in any way fair?

And it's not the same thing as piracy cause we are talking about people who obviously are willing to pay for games. They don't need to become "full price paying customers", even if they wait for a sale Ubi at least gets some money. Instead of nothing at all. If you don't do anything those people won't stop buying at G2A, why would they? Now they might at least buy from GMG or Amazon or HumbeStore.

Not technically the same, no, as no money was exchanged, but it's just not a good look for a company to encroach on someone's account and remove content. It pisses people off and makes them feel violated. Legal or not, it's just not wise IMO.

Oh, I agree it's a PR nightmare. Don't think Ubisoft is celebrating this right now (probably....I don't know maybe they are). But it still needs to happen at some point. Otherwise those people will keep buying stolen keys. Again and again and again. And revoking them isn't going to get any easier.

 

[Iorv3th]

Some of you need to calm down.. I'm just trying to understand how people can be alright with a company taking away what you paid for. If G2A was widely known as some scummy site, Ubisoft should have made that painfully clear before attempting to deny people of their purchases.

This isn't some shady, dark alley dealer selling TV's out of their trunk.. you know what you're getting into when you look for that. Realize that there may be people who purchased from G2A who may not be as "hardcore" in knowing about the gaming industry as others.

"It's really not that hard to understand."

Being a manager at a business, if we had gift certificates stolen and somehow people started showing up with those gift certificates saying they bought them from a business that looked legitimate, the guy was even wearing a suit, I would not honor them. They are stolen and they need to go talk to the person they bought them from.

There are business that sell stolen goods that look legitimate too. They aren't 'shady dark alleys' like we try to imagine, because people wouldn't go for that. Most look like legit businesses and are not. With the internet it's going to be even harder for consumers to tell what's legit and not. Suppose you could try to google it but might find mixed things? I doubt though that would find too many people claiming amazon.com or steam.com are doing fraudulent things.

 

[cyberheater]

apparently greenmangaming, gamersgate, and nuuvem are.

Legit sites are Greenmangaming, the Humble Store, Amazon, Gamersgate or Steam (obviously)

Thanks.

I've never bought from G2A before but have browsed their website. I'm glad I never bought anything now.

 

[diamount]

G2A is legit for games that have the companies badge on it. Which is ironic because those companies either dont produce games or are free 2 play publishers

Erm, Devolver Digital said in the tweet they used their logo without their authorisation I think that is a case for a lot of devs. They don't directly sell the keys remember.

 

[dani_dc]

For the sake of people that think Ubisoft are the only ones that do this:

Lets add the post by Unknownworlds while at it.

Or this account where a developer received emails impersonating Youtubers asking for free keys to cover games, only to find it was a scam and those keys were being sold by G2A.

There's lots of information around about G2A being a scummy site, and lots of cases of developers deactivating keys sold there.

 

[RocBase]

So does this effect GameDealDaily?

lol I came here to ask the exact same question.

From here on out I think I'll just avoid keysellers. How do we know which is legit?

 

[Mononoke]

I do kind of wonder if deactivating already activated keys is the best option. Even assuming some are stolen, it's just going to piss people off. They won't turn around and buy the game. And they risk turning them away from buying future games because they are mad.

They have every right to ban stolen keys as they got no money for them. But I wonder if in a practical sense if this is the best way to go about this. Perhaps them issuing a warning and saying any future keys bought from x site will be banned would work better vs outright deactivating thousands of people.

That said, if they are stolen, Ubisoft has every right.

 

[dex3108]

lol I came here to ask the exact same question.

From here on out I think I'll just avoid keysellers. How do we know which is legit?

Ask in Steam thread or check their about us section. If there is list of partners and publishers are on the list they are probably legit.