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[Blargonaut]

Brethren, I hereby propose that from now on and henceforth, parents must no longer name their children with inferior backwater "gender-specific" names like Jyllmia, Lotharn or Solravia; but, instead after a combination of:

1. a descriptive but gender- and colour-unspecific adjective, noun or verb and
2. an animal or plant (mythic or mundane).

For example:

Happy Cat
Dew-Upon-Sunflower
Tender Dog
Brine Lemur
Revolver Ocelot
Viscous Sinraptor
Hubris Turtle
etc.


This allows distinction of individuals and their individuality while having the benefit of remaining completely racially-, ethnically-, culturally-, colour- and gender-unspecific. If the child does not like their given birth name, they can easily legally change at any time once any heroic feat evoking the majesty of a wilderness aspect is accomplished. This also eliminates any excuse for name-discrimination as all flora and fauna are proven to have a part to play in the Circle of Life, thereby making all possible insults obsolete. There is everything to gain here, my colleagues. The path to a genderless YOU-topia. The social future.


Who shall sign and flay themselves in blood-pact with me?

✎ ______________

 

[Kano on the Phone]

We can't say anything anymore. Everything offends everybody. Hilarious.

Say whatever you want. It amazes me what babies normal people can turn into if you tell them something they might think is wrong.

I think the argument that gender is entirely a social construct is strange. I understand that gender and sex are not the same thing. If gender is what you identify as and sex is biological, you are still recognizing the existence of male, female or somewhere inbetween. Whether it is sex or gender, there are qualities that fall on a spectrum with male in one direction and female in the other. Yes, some people are intersex, some people are transgender. These all based around the concept of male and female. You cannot be transgender without gender. You cannot be intersex without sex.

What would be more useful than denying the existence of gender would to be more open with use of pronouns. The vast majority of people are either a he or a she, but lets bring more pronouns into the fold to accommodate those who aren't at either end of the spectrum. Calling kids purple penguins isn't doing anyone any good because you aren't going to be calling people that, teach them useful ways to be inclusive.

I think you're really overestimating what this is designed to do. All this is for is to give teachers a silly way of just avoiding binary gender pronouns. This sort of breaking down of the binary is the door to the same thing you want to see. Although I argue non-specific pronouns are just fine (they, for instance).

 

[MIMIC]

Can someone edit the thread title to include "gender and sex are not the same thing" just so we don't have to keep correcting this?

This seems really pedantic. "Sex" and "gender" are almost synonymous.

No one is saying "I see you as this, and therefore you ARE this".

 

[TCRS]

1 in 2000 people are intersex:

Also, the world is still revolving around the gender binary, not a tiny subset of the population. Children learn positive associations with personal identity, and we lose nothing.

That's not a reliable or scientific source as I said before.

How many people have to be affected in order for us to change anything that harms absolutely no one in your world?

It doesn't do any harm but it requires change and effort from the whole society at the behest of a tiny part of the population. Doesn't seem reasonable to me.

 

[TheOMan]

Why not just say "people", "everyone", "everybody", etc?

Exactly. I thought this too.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

No one is saying "I see you as this, and therefore you ARE this".

We are, even if it's not intentional. I've referred to people by the wrong pronoun all the time, and I can see the wincing in their faces. Feels bad.

 

[davepoobond]

I'm pretty sure that humans are in fact mammals.

dont call me a mammal, i dont want to be associated with those... things.

 

[JJDinomite]

What about us otherkin? If someone identifies as a spirit creature that is not a purple penguin, I could see this getting real ugly real fast.

 

[nullset2]

For example:


Revolver Ocelot

Lost my shit at this point.

 

[freddy]

We can't say anything anymore. Everything offends everybody. Hilarious.

This is only true for a small subset of people in the real world. On the internet, we don't have to follow social norms, because we're in a walled garden and can't be ostracised unless we break a specific set of rules. In the real world if we took such a stance where every is offensive, and threw around terms like privileged and misogyny, with the reckless abandon it's used on the internet, then people would shy away from us typically. So generally the tone policing resonates longer and louder on the internet, I feel.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

This seems really pedantic. "Sex" and "gender" are almost synonymous.

No one is saying "I see you as this, and therefore you ARE this".

Dude, this has been gone over.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_gender_distinction

Literally all of society is built around "I see you as a male, therefore you are expected to be this set of characteristics."

It doesn't do any harm but it requires change and effort from the whole society at the behest of a tiny part of the population. Doesn't seem reasonable to me.

Some people might have to change, like put forth actual effort, just so some other human beings have it better? That sounds just fucking awful.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

Brethren, I hereby propose that from now on and henceforth, parents must no longer name their children with inferior backwater "gender-specific" names like Jyllmia, Lotharn or Solravia; but, instead after a combination of:

1. a descriptive but gender- and colour-unspecific adjective, noun or verb and
2. an animal or plant (mythic or mundane).

For example:

Happy Cat
Dew-Upon-Sunflower
Tender Dog
Brine Lemur
Revolver Ocelot
Viscous Sinraptor
Hubris Turtle
etc.


This allows distinction of individuals and their individuality while having the benefit of remaining completely racially-, ethnically-, culturally-, colour- and gender-unspecific. If the child does not like their given birth name, they can easily legally change at any time once any heroic feat evoking the majesty of a wilderness aspect is accomplished. This also eliminates any excuse for name-discrimination as all flora and fauna are proven to have a part to play in the Circle of Life, thereby making all possible insults obsolete. There is everything to gain here, my colleagues. The path to a genderless YOU-topia. The social future.


Who shall sign and flay themselves in blood-pact with me?

✎ ______________

Dancing Squid reporting in, M'Person.

What about us otherkin? If someone identifies as a spirit creature that is not a purple penguin, I could see this getting real ugly real fast.

Otherkin are abominations.

 

[PBalfredo]

Some people don't consider themselves male or female.

Super. But that doesn't answer my question.

People here are saying "gender and sex are not the same thing", so I'm trying to see if people are talking past each other when they say boy or girl in this thread, but think it means different things.

 

[TCRS]

Some people might have to change just so some others have it better? That sounds just fucking awful.

~300 mio people have to change for <1 mio people. Not awful, but unreasonable.

 

[Dr. Buni]

Sounds great! The gender binary is bullshit.

Agreed. I dream of the day this gender bullshit will cease to exist.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

dont call me a mammal, i dont want to be associated with those... things.

What things? Mammal things?

Nipples?

 

[Deified Data]

[For example:

Happy Cat
Dew-Upon-Sunflower
Tender Dog
Brine Lemur
Revolver Ocelot
Viscous Sinraptor
Hubris Turtle
etc.

Most of these sound like Megaman X bosses.

BRINE LEEMUUUR

 

[freddy]

What things? Mammal things?

Nipples?

Multiple nipples.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

~300 mio people have to change for <1 mio people. Not awful, but unreasonable.

No one has to do anything. I think most people, once they've actually thought this through and seen that there's literally no downside in it for them will just come along and change it just because they aren't assholes. The ones that don't will be marginalized, like with every societal change.

 

[MIMIC]

Dude, this has been gone over.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_gender_distinction

Literally all of society is built around "I see you as a male, therefore you are expected to be this set of characteristics."

What are you talking about? If I say, "Hey little boy", I'm not expecting him to BE anything....other than able to hear my voice.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

What are you talking about? If I say, "Hey little boy", I'm not expecting him to BE anything....other than able to hear my voice.

You're expecting him to be a boy. He may not identify as a boy.

 

[Kinyou]

No one has to do anything. I think most people, once they've actually thought this through and seen that there's literally no downside in it for them will just come along and change it just because they aren't assholes. The ones that don't will be marginalized, like with every societal change.

If it's policy, I think the teachers have to do this.

 

[rexor0717]

Say whatever you want. It amazes me what babies normal people can turn into if you tell them something they might think is wrong.



I think you're really overestimating what this is designed to do. All this is for is to give teachers a silly way of just avoiding binary gender pronouns. This sort of breaking down of the binary is the door to the same thing you want to see. Although I argue non-specific pronouns are just fine (they, for instance).

I really don't care too much about the whole penguin thing, I just think it's silly (which for little kids might be fun) but it would actually be useful to teach them things they will use going forward. I was mostly putting my own views on gender in general out to the thread. I was mainly arguing against those that would say gender is entirely a social construct. To me, this seems to imply that gender isn't even a spectrum but some space without direction where regardless of whatever qualities a person may possess, you wind up in the exact same place of "there is no gender". There are obviously masculine and feminine qualities otherwise there would be nothing to define male, female, trans, or anything else.

 

[Enter The 36 Chambers]

You're expecting him to be a boy. He may not identify as a boy.

What? I'm not being a smart ass whatsoever but this post in ridiculous.

Expecting is different from the reality that he is a boy?

 

[SquiddyCracker]

What are you talking about? If I say, "Hey little boy", I'm not expecting him to BE anything....other than able to hear my voice.

You're forcing a boy-gender role onto em.
Same if you're calling em son.

What? I'm not being a smart ass whatsoever but this post in ridiculous.

Expecting is different from the reality that he is a boy?

Babies don't have genders.
They are genderless - they don't have the capacity yet to determine their gender.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

What? I'm not being a smart ass whatsoever but this post in ridiculous.

Expecting is different from the reality that he is a boy?

You're a bit wrong here, girl.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

If it's policy, I think the teachers have to do this.

The poster I was quoting was referring to people in general just being more tolerant and open minded, not this specific instance.

I really don't care too much about the whole penguin thing, I just think it's silly (which for little kids might be fun) but it would actually be useful to teach them things they will use going forward. I was mostly putting my own views on gender in general out to the thread. I was mainly arguing against those that would say gender is entirely a social construct. To me, this seems to imply that gender isn't even a spectrum but some space without direction where regardless of whatever qualities a person may possess, you wind up in the exact same place of "there is no gender". There are obviously masculine and feminine qualities otherwise there would be nothing to define male, female, trans, or anything else.

That's like saying "the fact there's a rainbow means there's no such thing as color."

It's a young concept and it isn't perfectly defined but that doesn't make it undefined or undefinable.

 

[TCRS]

No one has to do anything. I think most people, once they've actually thought this through and seen that there's literally no downside in it for them will just come along and change it just because they aren't assholes. The ones that don't will be marginalized, like with every societal change.

Well we'll see I guess. Sounds hopelessly naive to me though.

 

[Cizeta-Moroder]

You're expecting him to be a boy. He may not identify as a boy.

You're confusing gender with sex.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Well we'll see I guess. Sounds hopelessly naive to me though.

I never thought South Carolina would accept gay marriages in my entire lifetime, but here we are.

 

[JJDinomite]

In Spanish, almost every word has a gender-based meaning (ending with 'o' or 'a'). I'm typically against conservatives shaming Mexicans for speaking their native language, but I think I might rally onto their cause after discovering this.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

Well we'll see I guess. Sounds hopelessly naive to me though.

I'd imagine someone would have said the same thing about seeing a black president in their lifetime 30 years ago.

 

[Kite]

Brethren, I hereby propose that from now on and henceforth, parents must no longer name their children with inferior backwater "gender-specific" names like Jyllmia, Lotharn or Solravia; but, instead after a combination of:

1. a descriptive but gender- and colour-unspecific adjective, noun or verb and
2. an animal or plant (mythic or mundane).

For example:

Happy Cat
Dew-Upon-Sunflower
Tender Dog
Brine Lemur
Revolver Ocelot
Viscous Sinraptor
Hubris Turtle
etc.


This allows distinction of individuals and their individuality while having the benefit of remaining completely racially-, ethnically-, culturally-, colour- and gender-unspecific. If the child does not like their given birth name, they can easily legally change at any time once any heroic feat evoking the majesty of a wilderness aspect is accomplished. This also eliminates any excuse for name-discrimination as all flora and fauna are proven to have a part to play in the Circle of Life, thereby making all possible insults obsolete. There is everything to gain here, my colleagues. The path to a genderless YOU-topia. The social future.


Who shall sign and flay themselves in blood-pact with me?

&#9998; ______________

Shit, I can bust out my chinese name, Majestic Mountain Stream reporting in!

 

[SliceSabre]

No one has to do anything. I think most people, once they've actually thought this through and seen that there's literally no downside in it for them will just come along and change it just because they aren't assholes. The ones that don't will be marginalized, like with every societal change.

Just like racism eh? Your viewpoint is a very naive one as in the vast majority of society doesn't even think about stuff like this.

 

[ExplodingKetchup]

This thread is so depressing. Sad how some get so angry when people try to make an effort to be inclusive.

 

[Herr K]

"Purple penguins, do any of you classify yourselves as "both" or "neither"?"

This is stupid. Really.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

Just like racism eh? Your viewpoint is a very naive one as in the vast majority of society doesn't even think about stuff like this.

If change started with the majority on board it wouldn't be change. How do you think change works?

 

[RM8]

This thread is so depressing. Sad how some get so angry when people try to make an effort to be inclusive.

Why do some people have such strong negative feelings towards not being jerks to other people? :/ That's downright creepy.

 

[MIMIC]

You're expecting him to be a boy. He may not identify as a boy.

I think you mean "assuming".

 

[Herr K]

Brethren, I hereby propose that from now on and henceforth, parents must no longer name their children with inferior backwater "gender-specific" names like Jyllmia, Lotharn or Solravia; but, instead after a combination of:

1. a descriptive but gender- and colour-unspecific adjective, noun or verb and
2. an animal or plant (mythic or mundane).

For example:

Happy Cat
Dew-Upon-Sunflower
Tender Dog
Brine Lemur
Revolver Ocelot
Viscous Sinraptor
Hubris Turtle
etc.


This allows distinction of individuals and their individuality while having the benefit of remaining completely racially-, ethnically-, culturally-, colour- and gender-unspecific. If the child does not like their given birth name, they can easily legally change at any time once any heroic feat evoking the majesty of a wilderness aspect is accomplished. This also eliminates any excuse for name-discrimination as all flora and fauna are proven to have a part to play in the Circle of Life, thereby making all possible insults obsolete. There is everything to gain here, my colleagues. The path to a genderless YOU-topia. The social future.


Who shall sign and flay themselves in blood-pact with me?

&#9998; ______________

You can name your kid after an ubuntu release. Linux masterrace penguin that will keep its V-card until the grave.

 

[JinjoUnchained]

This is stupid. Diversity and inclusion means that you accept everyone's differences, not that you pretend said differences don't exist. There are men, women, and hermaphrodites by biology who identify with male gender, female gender, transgender, multiple genders, or no genders. To be truly tolerant is to accept and encourage everyone, wherever they fall on that spectrum. This shit is just asinine, instead of accepting people for who they are, they are telling them that their identity doesn't exist. It's actually intolerant in its' own way.

Brethren, I hereby propose that from now on and henceforth, parents must no longer name their children with inferior backwater "gender-specific" names like Jyllmia, Lotharn or Solravia; but, instead after a combination of:

1. a descriptive but gender- and colour-unspecific adjective, noun or verb and
2. an animal or plant (mythic or mundane).

For example:

Happy Cat
Dew-Upon-Sunflower
Tender Dog
Brine Lemur
Revolver Ocelot
Viscous Sinraptor
Hubris Turtle
etc.

So name your kids Mega Man X villains?

 

[SquiddyCracker]

I think you mean "assuming".

Assumption and expectation goes hand in hand, no?

 

[M-PG71C]

This is fine and all but there has to come a point where practicality is simply just. There is no such gender/sex called "Purple Penguin". Kids should be taught there is a difference between gender and sex, that's it. No bullshit, no fucking animal colors, no crap. The over-sensitivity has to come to an end and practicality and common sense should step in.

Kids are really not that dumb. We need to simply be more....well, simply.

 

[Interfectum]

Pretty sad how many people here take the National Review at face value and immediately go against the idea of gender inclusiveness. A lot of you remind me of the anti-common core conservative moms you'd see on Facebook. You might as well start reading Western Journalism too... here is an article about it here: http://www.westernjournalism.com/gender-terms-nebraska-school-district-purple-penguins/

After you are done reading that you should probably head on over to here and be embarrassed you got sucked into another right wing attempt to paint the idea of being inclusive in a bad light.

TRUE: Lincoln Public Schools have provided educators with materials to better understand gender identity issues.

FALSE: The Lincoln school district has banned all reference to gender and discouraged use of gendered pronouns in favor of calling students "purple penguins."

 

[rexor0717]

The poster I was quoting was referring to people in general just being more tolerant and open minded, not this specific instance.



That's like saying "the fact there's a rainbow means there's no such thing as color."

It's a young concept and it isn't perfectly defined but that doesn't make it undefined or undefinable.

Take this post for example

I think it's right, since someone's visible gender is a societal construct.

How am I to read this post? I'm assuming someone's visible gender is how they choose to express themselves, not the sex of their body. A person can express their gender with any combination of masculine or feminine qualities.Some chose to be mostly masculine or feminine and some choose something in between. If this is a social construct, there are no actual masculine or feminine qualities and gender is not real (there are no such things as colors, so how can there be a rainbow?). If gender is not entirely a social construct, then there is at least the basis of masculine or feminine that people can express themselves with. Now we are back on a spectrum that inclusive of any expression (light exist on a spectrum of wavelengths, so we have rainbows). There is no definition if there are no qualities.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

This is stupid. Diversity and inclusion means that you accept everyone's differences, not that you pretend said differences don't exist. There are men, women, and hermaphrodites by biology who identify with male gender, female gender, transgender, multiple genders, or no genders. To be truly tolerant is to accept and encourage everyone, wherever they fall on that spectrum. This shit is just asinine, instead of accepting people for who they are, they are telling them that their identity doesn't exist. It's actually intolerant in its' own way.

Have you read the actual document which is easily linked for you in the OP? It explains all of this exactly as you have.

 

[Frog-fu]

This is just flat out ridiculous. If you don't identify with the gender you were born with, that's fine, you have every right to do so, but what I don't understand is why the rest of society has to bend over backwards to accommodate the very small minority that does this. If I'm aware you don't identify with gender you were born into, I'm happy to refer to you with the correct pronouns, but this purple penguin shit is nonsense. The vast, vast majority of people are happy be with and identify as the gender they were born into. That's why I refuse to use words like "cis" to identify myself or others. I'll use the pronouns you want me to use to refer to you if that is what you prefer, but I think this expectation that society needs to abandon all traditional gender pronouns and use neutral pronouns because a very slight minority is just absurd.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

This is just flat out ridiculous. If you don't identify with the gender you were born with, that's fine, you have every right to do so, but what I don't understand is why the rest of society has to bend over backwards to accommodate the very small minority that does this. If I'm aware you don't identify with gender you were born into, I'm happy to refer to you with the correct pronouns, but this purple penguin shit is nonsense. The vast, vast majority of people are happy be with and identify as the gender they were born into. That's why I refuse to use words like "cis" to identify myself or others. I'll use the pronouns you want me to use to refer to you if that is what you prefer, but I think this expectation that society needs to abandon all traditional gender pronouns and use neutral pronouns because a very slight minority is just absurd.

What bending over backwards is anyone doing? A school is telling teachers to call a group "everyone" (or many other things) instead of "boys and girls." Step back and understand what's actually going on.

 

[Rest]

To whom is boys and girls not inclusive? And guys has referred to male and female when directed at a group for at least two decades, so what exactly is wrong with that?

 

[ExplodingKetchup]

This is just flat out ridiculous. If you don't identify with the gender you were born with, that's fine, you have every right to do so, but what I don't understand is why the rest of society has to bend over backwards to accommodate the very small minority that does this. If I'm aware you don't identify with gender you were born into, I'm happy to refer to you with the correct pronouns, but this purple penguin shit is nonsense. The vast, vast majority of people are happy be with and identify as the gender they were born into. That's why I refuse to use words like "cis" to identify myself or others. I'll use the pronouns you want me to use to refer to you if that is what you prefer, but I think this expectation that society needs to abandon all traditional gender pronouns and use neutral pronouns because a very slight minority is just absurd.

Why is this absurd?