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[Charles Brandon]

I think Sturgeon has to be very careful here. I don't suppose she will be able to get the UK to agree to another referendum before brexit but if she gets them to agree to one after brexit, without knowing what brexit will look like, it's taking a big into the dark. She only gets probably one more shot at this. If she demands another referendum and it turns out the economic realities mean leaving the UK is a complete non-starter in the short-term, she will have blown it.

Better to wait. I would give it brexit plus five years.

 

[cjp]

''English'' is not a race

Debatable.

Either way, it is most definitely an ethnic group and even then a common and valid definition of race from Oxford Dictionary is:

A group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group

So, yeah. Racism.

 

[Pancake Mix]

The relationship between Scotland and the rest of the UK is totally abusive the same way they are in couples.

What?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/aug/24/scottish-finances-worsen-fall-oil-revenues-15bn-deficit

English taxpayers help pay for the appreciably higher spending per head in Scotland, without any complaints. Scotland (and the other devolved nations) are partially protected from austerity in England.

It helps pay for stuff like this:

With few complaints. Don't make stuff up, with North Sea oil revenues in perpetual decline, English (84% of UK pop.) taxpayers help maintain Scotland's (8% of UK pop.) greater social services, with essentially no complaints.

And you call that abusive?

Not to mention, the Tories barely won a majority last time. With FPTP splitting the right vote, an effective Labour (not this one) could easily win in the future, especially if they ever get a few more Scottish seats back (they still have 1). Yes, England is generally slightly more conservative than Scotland, but it's fluid with time and not irreconcilable. Without winning those Scottish seats, Labour would not have won an absolute majority in 2005, they care deeply about Scottish support.

 

[Jeels]

Yaaaas. Do it Scotland, and then join the EU.

 

[sangreal]

Things changed when England and Wales decided to fuck Scotland and Northern Ireland by completely disregarding their COMPLETE SUPPORT FOR REMAINING WITHIN THE EU. NOT A SINGLE FUCKING DISTRICT VOTED MAJORITY LEAVE IN THOSE NATIONS.

but the vote wasn't by district (or even country) so this is a rather arbitrary breakdown. Leave wouldn't have passed without Scottish and Irish votes. Accepting those votes is not "fuck Scotland and Northern Ireland" -- instead ignoring them would be to disenfranchise those voters. Maybe the vote should have been by district or country*. But it wasn't. You can add that to the pile of problems with the referendum along with the lack of a super-majority, binding vs. non-binding etc. etc.

It's a pretty picture, but 62% of Scotland and 55% of NI voted remain, not 100%.

* See the US for why this is a terrible idea

 

[Pancake Mix]

Why are Northern Ireland's constituencies not shown in that map? That's misleading...they were counted separately during the referendum and several densely populated ones voted leave.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum,_2016#Northern_Ireland

Looks like the map wanted to show a larger divide than exists.

I still think this map is the best (also from a wiki contributor) because it shows percentages quite well.

 

[Madness]

This post is silly.

But that bit about Spain's "increasing nationalism" goes on to show how utterly lost you are.

I meant Catalan nationalism and independence in Spain. And why is it silly? Do you honestly think the EU without UK is as strong as it was? Had the UK stayed, by 2030 it would have overtaken Germany as the #1 economy in Western Europe. The UK is the primary financial center for the EU, and London one of the most important cities and UK probably has the largeet cultural power as it was the largest english speaking nation and has ties with the remaining commonwealth countries. As soon as the UK goes, depending on what haopens with Brexit, there goes a large chunk of the cultural soft power, military hard power, and economic power with it.

France isn't leaving.

Splitting hairs. France and UK are pretty much equal in terms of military however the UK has seen far more recent military action. Without the UK, France would the only military member left with any force/power projection, and even then, the Libya uprising showed they would struggle when both France and the UK couldn't achieve air superiority. Of course the UK also loses out, but a Brexit has always been lose-lose for all involved.

 

[Frankfurter]

I meant Catalan nationalism and independence in Spain. And why is it silly? Do you honestly think the EU without UK is as strong as it was? Had the UK stayed, by 2030 it would have overtaken Germany as the #1 economy in Western Europe. The UK is the primary financial center for the EU, and London one of the most important cities and UK probably has the largeet cultural power as it was the largest english speaking nation and has ties with the remaining commonwealth countries. As soon as the UK goes, depending on what haopens with Brexit, there goes a large chunk of the cultural soft power, military hard power, and economic power with it.



Splitting hairs. France and UK are pretty much equal in terms of military however the UK has seen far more recent military action. Without the UK, France would the only military member left with any force/power projection, and even then, the Libya uprising showed they would struggle when both France and the UK couldn't achieve air superiority. Of course the UK also loses out, but a Brexit has always been lose-lose for all involved.

Still onto this? Now it's not 10 years, but 2030? Where are you getting to this conclusion?

 

[Funky Papa]

I meant Catalan nationalism and independence in Spain. And why is it silly? Do you honestly think the EU without UK is as strong as it was? Had the UK stayed, by 2030 it would have overtaken Germany as the #1 economy in Western Europe. The UK is the primary financial center for the EU, and London one of the most important cities and UK probably has the largeet cultural power as it was the largest english speaking nation and has ties with the remaining commonwealth countries. As soon as the UK goes, depending on what haopens with Brexit, there goes a large chunk of the cultural soft power, military hard power, and economic power with it.



Splitting hairs. France and UK are pretty much equal in terms of military however the UK has seen far more recent military action. Without the UK, France would the only military member left with any force/power projection, and even then, the Libya uprising showed they would struggle when both France and the UK couldn't achieve air superiority. Of course the UK also loses out, but a Brexit has always been lose-lose for all involved.

It's silly because *nothing* is going to happen with Catalonian nationalism because it's going *nowhere*. There are no chances of a split right now despite all the chest thumping and both sides know it. This will end in some reforms (at best) and that'll be the end of it until the next fit. There's no legal framework, no financial skeleton, no political goodwill, no nothing. It's a completely unilateral move that would collapse within seconds.