Actually, I am not questioning their move to psp which probably made sense in a way. I am questioning why they are not making chronicle games with the same turn based combat system like the original three games. This new game has a totally different combat system.
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SEGA Valkyria Interview: Thoughts about potential VC2 and VC3 Remasters and more
- Thread starter Nyoro SF
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SatelliteOfLove
Member
Thanks for this, I'm always up for as much Japanese gaming translation that I can stand.
And VC's history is like modern SEGA defined in a nutshell. It's sad and crazy with a little wry hope.
And VC's history is like modern SEGA defined in a nutshell. It's sad and crazy with a little wry hope.
old
Member
Putting 2 and 3 on steam would be the smart thing to do. But this is Sega. The same people that took a wildly popular PS3 franchise and moved it exclusively to the dying PSP and then blamed the ensuing poor sales on the West not liking the franchise anymore.
So we can expect to hear 2 and 3 remakes announced exclusively for the Ouya anytime now.
So we can expect to hear 2 and 3 remakes announced exclusively for the Ouya anytime now.
In the interview later on they explain why. They wanted to make something brand new and didn't want to play out BLiTZ for a fourth time.
They are viewing this from a domestic angle, where sales of VC2 and VC3 were modest successes for SEGA, so they don't want to make a VC4, get modest domestic success by repeating themselves, so they're going for a riskier play by making a HD graphics spinoff that's more in-line with current JRPG standards.
Unfortunately I don't think SEGA Japan realizes that people in the West by vast majority have played and preferred the 1st game and nothing more (most people who played the 1st didn't play the PSP games) so for a Western fan, it can feel like you've gone for a very long time without BLiTZ, whereas in Japan that's not the case at all.
Just an example of bad decisions coming back to bite the company internationally. But we're no stranger to that as fans of Japanese games, right?
Nightengale
Member
There's nothIng smart about putting 2/3 as they are on Steam. The sequel downgrade in visuals are massive and the game design is catered to handheld experience. You put 2/3 as they are for cheap bucks but you risk damaging the IP's retention if your next release after a console title is a portable version.
Remake is the smarter approach.
Remake is the smarter approach.
Thanks for this info. Yea it sucks because most people atleast in the west would want a true sequel to vc1.In the interview later on they explain why. They wanted to make something brand new and didn't want to play out BLiTZ for a fourth time.
They are viewing this from a domestic angle, where sales of VC2 and VC3 were modest successes for SEGA, so they don't want to make a VC4, get modest domestic success by repeating themselves, so they're going for a riskier play by making a HD graphics spinoff that's more in-line with current JRPG standards.
Unfortunately I don't think SEGA Japan realizes that people in the West by vast majority have played and preferred the 1st game and nothing more (most people who played the 1st didn't play the PSP games) so for a Western fan, it can feel like you've gone for a very long time without BLiTZ, whereas in Japan that's not the case at all.
Just an example of bad decisions coming back to bite the company internationally. But we're no stranger to that as fans of Japanese games, right?
DangerMouse
Member
UltimateUnknown
Member
They need to at least remaster 3. As much as I adore the original I think 3 is overall the best in the series.
How hyperbolic, atleast wait until the game is out before shitting on it, they have changed a lot since the demo.
As for the chances of 2 and 3 being slim because they would have to be fully remade and not just put out remastered, i totally understand where they are coming from. Those two games were essentially made from the ground up for PSP, making them for modern systems, even Vita would require a huge redo of content to actually make them applicable. Even 'high end' PSP games like BBS and Type 0 and Crisis core are still largely just hallways and very small confined areas.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
There won't be a Valkyria 3 remaster if no one buys the Valkyria 2 remaster
They need to just remaster or remake 3 since most of the world hasn't played it. 2 on the other hand is out there
I enjoyed VC2 a bit at the time but it's nothing I'd want to replay today on PC/console. It would have to be remade from scratch. VC3 I haven't played but I am guessing it is a bit better, but the systems are probably equally trimmed compared with VC1 (smaller maps, lower res, etc).
mikezilla2
Member
thanks very much OP
I feel like they are misunderstanding something there. What has proven popular (including over 800k owners on Steam) is the unique mixture of third person/SRPG gameplay that Valkyria Chronicles provides. Making a generic JRPG in the sme settings seems unlikely -- to me at least -- to be met with the same enthusiasm.
Just like when they were making VC2 "for middle schoolers", it seems like they are looking at Japan only and coming to the wrong conclusions.
GhostTrick
Banned
Yup, exactly. Feels like they wanted to revive the IP, but trying something different. Reviving the IP should've been what VC2 could've been on PS3.
Sumio Mondo
Member
I've heard that VC3 reuses some of the same music and environments/maps from VC2? Also, if they did remake VC2 and VC3, I think they'd need to enhance the visuals a lot for it to match up to VC1 and preferably retains VC1's art style as opposed to Azure's boring visual style in comparison to VC1's.
Well, that was their specific reasoning for the PS4 remaster, not Azure Revolution.
Azure Revolution's concept was created in the viewpoint that they wanted to try something new after 3 games of the same type of gameplay set in the same kind of world. I can understand that sentiment, since none of the original staff on the original game are even in the same team or even at Sega at this point, trying to bring VC back as it was as if it would fulfill the same impact is doomed to failure i think.
Especially because of the turbulence of the franchise at large(at most you'll have people who like the original one and hate the other 2)
As for the generic JRPG part, we have yet to see the full product as of yet. I think dismissing it(azure revolution) right off the bat would be a mistake, especially just based on aesthetics alone.
Summarises my point of view in a succinct and probably significantly less blunt way than I would've put it.
It really becomes painful seeing smart people designing incredible gameplay systems that revolutionise genres who are then so completely blind to why people enjoy what they make.
This line:
in particular emphasises my point.
Would it be tougher or more expensive to remaster (or even remake) something like Valkyria Chronicles 3 which has already been made, written, balanced, recorded etc. than it is to make an entirely new PS4 RPG which is completely unproven and by most impressions seems to be making mistakes again?
I understand that developers want creative freedom and to create new content, but the Steam release of Valkyria Chronicles feels like it gave a series with no future a second chance. To see that followed with such a narrow-sighted vision as to make a game completely removed from the genre and gameplay that people loved only spells a second and likely more permanent death for the franchise.
At least toss a bone to the people that bought those 800k copies and give them the other entries in the series (or at least the good one) before you go jumping head-first into your grave again.
Langdon Alger
Banned
I just hope they bring 3 over to the US in any form. Just slap some English subtitles on it and put it on the Vita.
FYI, Azure revolution was in development before the PC port was launched.
considering what they have said, just porting the 2 games to PS4 and PC would be unsatisfactory considering that they are still PSP games.
Redoing all the assets, all the gameplay systems and all the art to actually scale to modern fidelity, would be like making 2 new games instead of 1.
They did VC1 because it still holds up to scrutiny. I'm assuming they only have a modest budget for these games in the first place.
Making something different in the Valkyria Universe represents a shift of thought for them, that they want to cut their losses and try to make what is essentially a new IP with the Valkyria name and see if it can be successful.
The problem with this approach being that some fans are not going to accept it even if the end result turns out good because they are more concerned about whether or not it resembles Valkyria chronicles.
Its def a hard balancing act, but i want them to succeed with Azure revolution, and one day go back to VC for the fans of that property. If they fail with Azure Rev, they aren't going to go back and make VC games as if they learned their lesson, Sega will just drop Valkyria most likely
considering what they have said, just porting the 2 games to PS4 and PC would be unsatisfactory considering that they are still PSP games.
Redoing all the assets, all the gameplay systems and all the art to actually scale to modern fidelity, would be like making 2 new games instead of 1.
They did VC1 because it still holds up to scrutiny. I'm assuming they only have a modest budget for these games in the first place.
Making something different in the Valkyria Universe represents a shift of thought for them, that they want to cut their losses and try to make what is essentially a new IP with the Valkyria name and see if it can be successful.
The problem with this approach being that some fans are not going to accept it even if the end result turns out good because they are more concerned about whether or not it resembles Valkyria chronicles.
Its def a hard balancing act, but i want them to succeed with Azure revolution, and one day go back to VC for the fans of that property. If they fail with Azure Rev, they aren't going to go back and make VC games as if they learned their lesson, Sega will just drop Valkyria most likely
Makoto Yuki
Banned
I would love to play 3, 2 was so-so.
Waldo Lydecker
Member
'Mr. PS4 is AMAZING!'
Lol, this should become a new meme...
Lol, this should become a new meme...
This at least puts some of their thinking into perspective, but the fact that they only have a limited budget and a SEGA-brand axe over their necks if anything makes it more logical to do remasters of 2 or 3 rather than create a new game. While there are plenty of assets that they'd have to remake outright, I can't possibly imagine that it's more expensive to take something already made and remake it with more detail than it is to pay someone to design characters, write a story, program new gameplay systems, make new music, design weapons, areas etc etc. Particularly now that the original has sold so much through the untapped PC market (not too sure about how the PS4 port did).
It could just be a case of them jumping the gun and going all in for something different since they still had the budget and goodwill available and because they felt 'this isn't working' with Valkyria Chronicles, but it'd be a shame to see things go poorly because of that, particularly after the second wind the series received.
I hope they have good luck with Azure Revolution because the Valkyria Chronicles series isn't something I'd like to see die, though if that led to Azure Revolution 2 rather than a Valkyria Chronicles 4, I honestly couldn't care less either way. I'm just not interested in another JRPG and I think a lot of the people that bought and love the series feel the same way.
I think...saying you are not interested in JRPGs and not considering SRPG's just a different category of JRPG is very confusing.
That's what they have been making the whole time, the games in that mindset. So when it comes to a location and lore shift, what happens next automatically would be considered just as accepted to the authors.
If you)aka one of those fans) are literally not interested in anything besides VC1 type gameplay and world view specifically, they were not going to hold the interest of those fans for long anyway, and thus a change was necessary.
Personally I would have rather they kept the game an SRPG series rather than going to a more traditional style JRPG structure, even if they used a drastically different system (Think Ogre Battle to Tactics Ogre) for example.
Having said that I'm still receptive to the new game and even if the direction this game takes is the one the series goes on with in the future I'm okay with that as long as the game turns out well.
I like Disgaea, Fire Emblem, Final Fantasy Tactics, and I'll even throw Super Robot Wars on here for good measure, but they're nothing like traditional JRPGs in terms of structure
In traditional JRPGs there's towns, dungeons, shops, side quests, inventory management, NPCs. I could keep listing elements, but I'm sure you're probably more familiar with JRPGs than I am.
In SRPGs, most of that fat is cut. It's just missions with varied, tactical objectives and in-between story stuff and team management. Disgaea blurs the lines a bit and it's probably my least favourite of the SRPGs I've played because of it, but it's still a huge departure from the structure of traditional JRPGs.
From my perspective, the lore and idea behind Valkyria Chronicles - fantasy WW2 with Norse mythological elements thrown in - is interesting, but not as interesting as the gameplay elements.
I feel that the shift from SRPG to JRPG would shine more of a light on the characters and the world, which - in my opinion - has never been the strongest point of the series. The writing has bordered on being 'too anime' since the beginning and Valkyria Chronicles 2 shows what happens when that line is crossed. You get a game that people praise for its gameplay with the caveat of 'if you can suffer through the characters'.
When I said that I'm not interested in another JRPG, A more specific way of putting it would be 'I'm not interested in a by-the-books JRPG with characters that have the depth shown in past entries in the series, particularly if they're not backed up by enjoyable gameplay systems'.
By all means, if the emphasis is put in the right places and the characters are built up more than they have been in the Valkyria Chronicles series without falling into the gutter of tropes that plague anime characters while simultaneously being given a good gameplay system as a backing, the game could be great and give new life to the series.
I just think it would be a safer move to redo the old stuff and make sure everyone has access to it, generate some money and goodwill within SEGA and the western community and then go on to make your experimental JRPG spin-off thing. If it doesn't work out. If it fails, then SEGA might give you a chance to make VC4 instead of kicking you to the curb at that point.
MaximumSpider
Banned
I'd rather have VC3 to be honest. This could be the second chance it needs in the west.
I understand what your saying, and its more than reasonable as a viewpoint.
Even if i don't really agree about the characters part.
Even though it wasn't super ground breaking, i actually liked the story of VC1 and the characters pushed me through to the end.
Even though i find the gameplay in these games fun and unique, i'm not really one to survive on that alone if i don't find everything else to a certain standard in general, so i'm basically your opposite heh.
Also, it is always irritating to hear the 'anime tropes' complaint without much context. I don't really see the problem with tropes(since everything is made of them in fiction)as long as they are used in a refreshing way, its why i can't really get angry at the art style alone for Azure revolution.
As long as the game itself is good, which we won't know until it comes out, why does it matter if there is anime inspired stuff in it?
That's where I am at. Action JRPGs with combat that has all the depth of a paddling pool (unless they completely overhaul what the demo showed), which sadly have become a dime a dozen since the PS2 days, do not interest me. We had Shining Force taken away from us SRPG fans, I don't want the same fate for Valkyria Chronicles.
mrmickfran
Member
If SEGA decides to bring VC3 over, they'll probably have Atlus dub it.
Surprised they haven't yet actually.
Surprised they haven't yet actually.
The main issue with VC2 isn't the story/setting many are complaining about. It's the absurd amount of grinding you need to unlock everything. No, I don't want to replay 50 times a tutorial mission to farm materials.
They managed to make it worse than FFX.
Yeah, the setting is the least worst part of VC2. If you're used to playing "anime games", it's just that, with low-quality fare. It's actually the gameplay that is complete garbage.
"NEO" code name was actually just a placeholder for the official new PS4 title, "Mr. PS4"
badcrumble
Member
VC1 basically invented a new subgenre but it felt so utterly polished and smartly designed that it felt as if the genre had had several other entries in it to build off of to really perfect the formula. I seriously hope we get another game like it someday.
old
Member
Yes, your point?
Why?
killatopak
Member
I'd rather have them remake 2 and 3 and made with the console in mind the way it was meant to be.
TC McQueen
Member
Eh... maybe it's because I came to the franchise after XCOM:EU came out, but I felt the game was fairly weak in a lot of areas, sort of like Mass Effect 1, but without the massive design incompetence. A lot of the time, I either felt something was missing (the actual combat with the soldiers), had the same sort of irritation with some of the design choices (namely, the nearly pointless tech trees and the incremental upgrades), or was just baffled by their choices (like sticking a bunch of debuffs on rifles that would've made sense as grenade types).
Azure Revolution though, really looks like an ME1 style mess to me, which is ironic, because both VC and AR could probably benefit from copying a lot of ME3's mechanics.
badcrumble
Member
I'll definitely agree that the branching equipment upgrades often feel silly because there's usually an obvious best path to go with (and then the Royal equipment on top of that is often good enough to obviate even that much). Putting status effects on grenades instead of rifles would've been very smart. I don't mind the incremental class leveling but it would've been nice to make it more player-transparent (like make it clear how much people's HP, AP, accuracy, etc. went up).
infinitys_7th
Member
Eh, VC2 is mediocre at best. If they remade it with the VC3 engine it could be great, but the class system, level design (mostly enemy placement), and grindy stuff was awful in it.
VC3 with a better official translation would be great, though.
VC3 with a better official translation would be great, though.
Gentleman Jack
Member
Yeah it ain't happening. It'll get the exact same reception that the PSP games got + the extra expense of porting and localizing 3 = they can't make a business case for the investment.
Then again, they do keep localizing Yakuza games, so maybe Sega doesn't mind just throwing money into a furnace.
ShadowSoldier89
Member
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