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[Synless]

I'm going to have to go back and play through it again. But I have to say I don't remember the any of the messages, especially the final one sounding like Henry, but I'll look into it. I get what your saying though.

 

[Vinnk]

I love the clean-up men. I wonder what their story is..

 

[Alts]

Spoiler

My take was that they killed each other and 5 years later, we see Sylvia and Travis daughter Jeane. Sure, the girl could have imagined it, but that seems like too much of an easy way out - and why would a little girl imagine killing her parents and getting rapped and all that anyway? Jeane in the story was older than the little girl. I would have bought this line of thinking a bit more if they showed Crystal with an abusive-type man, but it wasn't happenin'.

I'm going to focus on this part for now, although I will say that

Spoiler

Destroyman's "why fight" thing was a trick. The hand shake zap thing? When I said "the assassins weren't real", I meant they weren't real assassins, not that they didn't exist in that particular reality.

About my understanding of the 'dream ending.' It isn't about being an easy way out, it is about the ending having lost any legitimacy by that point. The twists aren't about making the plot deeper, but about throwing in twists for the sake of it. The dream is just another twist, it doesn't have to be rationalized any more than Henry and Travis being twins does.

Why would the girl imagine her parents getting killed? She didn't. If the painting is just that, then there is no way to know if Henry or Travis are even real people. The father could be anyone.

Why imagine getting raped? That whole segment of the story was fast forwarded, and while it is there, and it makes things convenient, to what extent was the player supposed to know about it? To what extent does Jeane know about it herself if, in the dream, it too was fast forwarded?

The main distinction here is, do we read into the real ending, or do we view it as a joke. I and (likely) Jenga saw it as being a joke. You took it literally.

A reason why we should take the ending seriously:
Suda's interest in making a sequel. You can't really make a sequel to an imagined scenario. Although, even in your interpretation, a sequel would be hard to pull off without retcons all over.

 

[AceBandage]

Spoiler

A reason why we should take the ending seriously:
Suda's interest in making a sequel. You can't really make a sequel to an imagined scenario. Although, even in your interpretation, a sequel would be hard to pull off without retcons all over.

Actually, I'm hoping the sequel has nothing to do with this game besides starring Travis.
Just to screw with us even more.

 

[stephendedalus]

No More Heroes is to videogames as FLCL is to anime and Finnegans Wake is to literature. There is a story, but you are really only there for the structure and references.

 

[Sallokin]

You know what I want? I want a fucking belt like Travis has. It's a pretty badass utility/punk rock belt. Do those actually exist in the real world? If so, link please!

 

[Alts]

Erm. No. the FLCL analogy might be alright, but FLCL pulls off the emotional maturity theme much better than this. Also, Finnegan's Wake is an awesome incomprehensible mess, and if I had time to, I would devote much of it to understanding as well as I can what the hell Joyce was thinking. But comparing that to this, is simply wrong (unless you agree with the whole Joyce was pulling a joke on the literary community angle).

 

[stephendedalus]

My interpretation (since that is all there is, interpretation) is that it is a pretty good joke. But again that is certainly up for debate...

Maybe replace 'Finnegans Wake is...' with Andy Warhol is to art. Less controversial.

EDIT: I'm not really comparing those things to No More Heroes per se, they just all seem to have a similar thread running through them. Thats all.

 

[hellclerk]

Goddamn! i step away for one day and theres already a kick ass discussion of NMH and it's symbolism. i never really thought of it the way TIE brought it up, but perhaps i did through a proxy. i thought of it more as if the untamed insensibility of the male psyche when the chains of logic and reason come off. the true masculine without logic or reason does not become the emotional irrational as is the suggestion with women, but instead becomes the insane irrational.

in a way, a large part of that insensibility is the male libido, the most confusing and nonsensical thing in a man's life slowly coming to it's own and revealing itself bit by bit. using the pop band to Jesus band rule, replacing kill with fuck:

Spoiler

Shinobu was the inexperienced, holding a high horse but ultimately not being up to snuff to metaphorically ride it, lacking the emotional and even physical development to satisfy Travis's libido, leaving her high and dry with the opportunity to come back later if she's ready for him.

Holly Summers is the figure that allowed him to understand his person and his feelings towards women. when Travis hesitated in killing/fucking her, after avoiding and climbing out of a number of holes and traps, he showed his respect for her person and his fear of hurting that respect. more or less, Holly scolds him of that fear and promptly cuts it off. note he refers to most of the assassins as numbers and it was only Holly he asked the name of, to sort of explain that it's not just another notch in the belt to speak.

the Speed Buster fight is parallel to Travis's understanding of women, now that he better understands himself. as the whole fight is just you working your way closer and closer to the outwardly ugly bitch, who you just saw an old friend get burned by, you find away to disarm her and find that up close she's rather nicer than her insults and rantings suggested as you approached. if you know anything about anime character archtypes, think tsundere.

Bad Girl i'm not so sure of what to make of. using the kill=fuck train of thought, she's a slut. her crocodile tear move is very showing of her manipulative nature and sort of sets up for a kind of relationship that's discussed in Sublime's "Self Esteem." it's not a wonder that Travis walks away shaken

at this juncture, it's important to note that every fight includes a phallic symbol of some sort: Death Metal: Giant sword, Dr. Peace: twin revolvers, Shinobu: Samurai sword, Destroyman: crotch laser, Holly Summers: a shovel, rockets, and grenades(Freude sayz testicles), Letz Shake: Giant vibrating cylindrical machine, Harvey Volidarskii: magical sticks, Speed Buster: HUGE fucking cannon, Bad Girl: baseball bat, Darkstar: giant dragon laser whip that comes out of the business end of a horse, Sir Henry Motherfucker: light katana (like travis).

now it's important to note that of ALL the characters Travis fought and killed, the only one not to use a phallic symbol was Jeane. it's also important to note how Darkstar was disposed of. Jeane pretty much punched his balls out. Darkstar was most likely a representation of masculinity as he remembers from his father, and as he utters: "she was the girl you loved," he was immediately emasculated. this is the final step in Travis's libido's fight to the top: Love. much like the Jeane fight, love is an elusive affair, and when it was all said and done, Jeane had punched through Travis's chest to his heart. it took some intervention from an old friend to save him from being crushed and broken, and he finally brought closure to his "relationship" with Jeane, despite some fear and hurt along the way. i know the fact that Jeane was Travis's half sister has to do with something (perhaps the image of femininity from a female sibling displayed in another girl?), but i won't go much deeper into that.

furthermore, i would like to add that the non-female bosses did not necessarily have to do with the growth of Travis's libido, but rather the growth of Travis's untamed masculine psyche. i don't want to go too deeply into that because then i would really be overthinking it, not to mention i would be going deeper into personal meanings to it all rather than more objective guidelines for what it could mean like i can with the female assassins.

edit: i would like to drop a personal fuck you to Twin Ion Engines. thanks alot punk, now i'm not going to look at this game quite the same again

 

[Koomaster]

Spoiler

Bad Girl i'm not so sure of what to make of. using the kill=fuck train of thought, she's a slut. her crocodile tear move is very showing of her manipulative nature and sort of sets up for a kind of relationship that's discussed in Sublime's "Self Esteem." it's not a wonder that Travis walks away shaken

I agree with the assessment that in some ways the game is a coming of age story for this hopeless 27-year old otaku...

Spoiler

As has already been mentioned, he's been put through the paces of past failed 'kills' of women. And finally speed buster took him under her wing sorta speak as the mature experienced woman. She doesn't put up a fight with Travis, more she is teaching him. And once he's had patience and explored her world and pushed the right button (the telephone poles) she's ready to relent and he's ready to 'kill' her.

On to Bad-girl, now that he has been taught, he can fully interact with her and she with him. BOTH partners have a back and forth with this fight (batting the guys), and Travis also has to be respectful of her moods and knowing when to back off (the fainting). Then toward the end, things get heated up with Bad Girl (the flaming bat). And of course, the fight ends with Travis 'killing' her to which she ends up very suggestively on top of him. Even he himself is tired out from this fight.

 

[John Harker]

I'm going to focus on this part for now, although I will say that

Spoiler

Destroyman's "why fight" thing was a trick. The hand shake zap thing? When I said "the assassins weren't real", I meant they weren't real assassins, not that they didn't exist in that particular reality.

About my understanding of the 'dream ending.' It isn't about being an easy way out, it is about the ending having lost any legitimacy by that point. The twists aren't about making the plot deeper, but about throwing in twists for the sake of it. The dream is just another twist, it doesn't have to be rationalized any more than Henry and Travis being twins does.

Why would the girl imagine her parents getting killed? She didn't. If the painting is just that, then there is no way to know if Henry or Travis are even real people. The father could be anyone.

Why imagine getting raped? That whole segment of the story was fast forwarded, and while it is there, and it makes things convenient, to what extent was the player supposed to know about it? To what extent does Jeane know about it herself if, in the dream, it too was fast forwarded?

The main distinction here is, do we read into the real ending, or do we view it as a joke. I and (likely) Jenga saw it as being a joke. You took it literally.

A reason why we should take the ending seriously:
Suda's interest in making a sequel. You can't really make a sequel to an imagined scenario. Although, even in your interpretation, a sequel would be hard to pull off without retcons all over.

Might want to fix my quote, you left the spoilers open

We hear that guy talk, and his accent is completely and totally different. I think that was meant to show us that it WASNT that guy, not that it was one of them.

 

[Jirotrom]

Might want to fix my quote, you left the spoilers open

We hear that guy talk, and his accent is completely and totally different. I think that was meant to show us that it WASNT that guy, not that it was one of them.

what are you talking about?

 

[hellclerk]

I agree with the assessment that in some ways the game is a coming of age story for this hopeless 27-year old otaku...

Spoiler

As has already been mentioned, he's been put through the paces of past failed 'kills' of women. And finally speed buster took him under her wing sorta speak as the mature experienced woman. She doesn't put up a fight with Travis, more she is teaching him. And once he's had patience and explored her world and pushed the right button (the telephone poles) she's ready to relent and he's ready to 'kill' her.

On to Bad-girl, now that he has been taught, he can fully interact with her and she with him. BOTH partners have a back and forth with this fight (batting the guys), and Travis also has to be respectful of her moods and knowing when to back off (the fainting). Then toward the end, things get heated up with Bad Girl (the flaming bat). And of course, the fight ends with Travis 'killing' her to which she ends up very suggestively on top of him. Even he himself is tired out from this fight.

actually,

Spoiler

i would argue that Speed Buster represents the Tsundere, a popular Japanese character archtype and that Travis's battle with her has nothing to do with her LETTING him in. you have to tread lightly in that field, moving through different alley's and breaking down barriers to get close. Speed Buster's appearance i would not chalk up to the "mature" but more to how men would perceive her. sometimes, the tsundere who can't stand the presumptuousness of men is just as undesirable as the disgusting fat old ladies.

 

[John Harker]

what are you talking about?

You don't hear the two men who do clean up speak at all in the game (OR DO YOU?). At one point

Spoiler

Sylvia does not make an appearance after the Bad Girl fight, so the skinny man says like "on behalf of Sylvia Chrystal, you are now ranked 2" or something. That is NOT the guys voice leaving Travis the answering machine messages. I think it was a plot device used so we know that that voice recording is not from these two characters. It helps the allusion that it is from Henry. Especially his last voice message. Listen to it again. It sounds clearly like him and he drops him trying to hide his Irish accent when he says the word 'journey.' But hey, it could all be in the little girls head anyway, right? Easy to get things cloudy when you're dreaming it ::shrug::

 

[Jenga]

Spoiler

Suda's interest in making a sequel. You can't really make a sequel to an imagined scenario. Although, even in your interpretation, a sequel would be hard to pull off without retcons all over.

Spoiler

I'm pretty confident in NMH 2 we'll see a bunch of retcons. Not just to make the sequel's plot fit in, but to also make fun of game/movie/comicbook/etc sequels that ret-con the shit out of the original story.

 

[Jirotrom]

You don't hear the two men who do clean up speak at all in the game. At one point

Spoiler

Sylvia does not make an appearance after the Bad Girl fight, so the skinny man says like "on behalf of Sylvia Chrystal, you are now ranked 2" or something. That is NOT the guys voice leaving Travis the answering machine messages. I think it was a plot device used so we know that that voice recording is not from these two characters. It helps the allusion that it is from Henry. Especially his last voice message. Listen to it again. It sounds clearly like him and he drops him trying to hide his Irish accent when he says the word 'journey.' But hey, it could all be in the little girls head anyway, right? Easy to get things cloudy when you're dreaming it ::shrug::

Yes you do... when Sylvia doesnt show up near the end after one of the fights a clean up man talks to you instead...who has the same voice as the guy who calls you. First you state you don't here them then you state you do...? show a you tube video so we can compare voices it sounded pretty similar to me.

 

[Jenga]

Yes you do... when Sylvia doesnt show up near the end after one of the fights a clean up man talks to you instead...who has the same voice as the guy who calls you. First you state you don't here them then you state you do...? show a you tube video so we can compare voices it sounded pretty similar to me.

Regardless, the voice operator letting the Irish accent come out in the final message to Rank #1 more or less proves it's Henry.

 

[Jirotrom]

Regardless, the voice operator letting the Irish accent come out in the final message to Rank #1 more or less proves it's Henry.

that I have to double check... youtube? I can't remember that as I wasn't paying attention.

 

[John Harker]

Yes you do... when Sylvia doesnt show up near the end after one of the fights a clean up man talks to you instead...who has the same voice as the guy who calls you. First you state you don't here them then you state you do...? show a you tube video so we can compare voices it sounded pretty similar to me.

I'm trying not to spoil anything, hence the spoiler tags there pal. Did you even read what I wrote in there, heh

 

[hellclerk]

Spoiler

I'm pretty confident in NMH 2 we'll see a bunch of retcons. Not just to make the sequel's plot fit in, but to also make fun of game/movie/comicbook/etc sequels that ret-con the shit out of the original story.

well i think Harker mentioned that it would be neat to have

Spoiler

the little girl

be the star of the next game. it would certainly make things interesting and would allow Suda to explore female sexuality and gender roles as well. i could see how he could keep up the LOL OTAKU theme going as well.

 

[Jirotrom]

I'm trying not to spoil anything, hence the spoiler tags there pal. Did you even read what I wrote in there, heh

I did... but I didn't think it was a big spoiler.

 

[bryehn]

So, uh...still no word from EB Canada, is this actually going to get released this week up here?

 

[John Harker]

well i think Harker mentioned that it would be neat to have

Spoiler

the little girl

be the star of the next game. it would certainly make things interesting and would allow Suda to explore female sexuality and gender roles as well. i could see how he could keep up the LOL OTAKU theme going as well.

Yea. It goes along with his Kill-Bill-revenge-style scenario as well.
But along those lines, what interests me the most, was how it looked like the

Spoiler

"To Be Continued" font at the end of the real ending looked like "Back to the Future." It would be cool if he did some play on that. This one was very Star Warsy, it would be cool to do a satire of other films like BTTF and star the little girl in the future and her own life, or perhaps write it like it his Travis daugther and she can go back in time and save her father from being killed, etc. Oh, the possibilities.

Honestly though, I'm pretty sure I'd be equally as happy with a NMH2 as I would be a totally original Suda project as well. I wanted a Killer7 sequel badly and I got this instead and was MORE than pleased, so.

 

[Vinci]

Thank you guys for using spoilers so effectively. I came in here just to say that I let my best friend play this game and he went completely apeshit over it and is purchasing his own copy. Yay!

So yeah, the fact that I haven't beaten it yet ... thanks for the walls of blackened text.

 

[AceBandage]

Thank you guys for using spoilers so effectively. I came in here just to say that I let my best friend play this game and he went completely apeshit over it and is purchasing his own copy. Yay!

So yeah, the fact that I haven't beaten it yet ... thanks for the walls of blackened text.

Really, spoiling this game just kills what makes it awesome. If it's all fresh, it'll blow you away.

 

[goldenticket]

yeah when i was playing my first time through it i would keep visiting the thread since people were using spoiler tags so thanks for that.

 

[Christine]

I love the clean-up men. I wonder what their story is..

The clean-up guys are awesome. I love how the big one's head is always cut off by the frame, even on their trading card!

 

[hellclerk]

Yea. It goes along with his Kill-Bill-revenge-style scenario as well.
But along those lines, what interests me the most, was how it looked like the

Spoiler

"To Be Continued" font at the end of the real ending looked like "Back to the Future." It would be cool if he did some play on that. This one was very Star Warsy, it would be cool to do a satire of other films like BTTF and star the little girl in the future and her own life, or perhaps write it like it his Travis daugther and she can go back in time and save her father from being killed, etc. Oh, the possibilities.

Honestly though, I'm pretty sure I'd be equally as happy with a NMH2 as I would be a totally original Suda project as well. I wanted a Killer7 sequel badly and I got this instead and was MORE than pleased, so.

oh gawd, i would flip out and explode in my pants at the announcement of a NMH2 Destroyman style.

Spoiler

also, i wouldn't look too deeply into the BttF font too much. it's really more of a "OR IS IT!?!?!?!?!?!" kind of twist.

i personally don't want to think about what i would want in a sequel simply because i trust Suda to figure that out far more than me, but i would like the idea of the #1 Travis defending against a cast of eager Usurpers

Spoiler

perhaps ending with his daughter??

.

 

[MiniDitka]

Regardless, the voice operator letting the Irish accent come out in the final message to Rank #1 more or less proves it's Henry.

that I have to double check... youtube? I can't remember that as I wasn't paying attention.

Is this the message? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHjEspjuU9w

 

[John Harker]

Is this the message? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHjEspjuU9w

Thanks for that man.

I've been saying that for 3 pages.
How can you listen to that and NOT

Spoiler

think its Henry? The voice from the beginning sounded like him but was trying to cover the accent. And as I said, ever since the Big Show ranking, Sylvia disappears, and the voice messages have been shorter, curter, and sometimes ruder. Suspicions abound. Till finally Henry confronts him.

 

[Akai]

Thanks for that man.

I've been saying that for 3 pages.
How can you listen to that and NOT

Spoiler

think its Henry? The voice from the beginning sounded like him but was trying to cover the accent. And as I said, ever since the Big Show ranking, Sylvia disappears, and the voice messages have been shorter, curter, and sometimes ruder. Suspicions abound. Till finally Henry confronts him.

The one problem I have with that is

Spoiler

Henry alluded to having no part in Sylvia's con deals...And Sylvia herself appeared surprised that Henry popped up after #5...

 

[John Harker]

The one problem I have with that is

Spoiler

Henry alluded to having no part in Sylvia's con deals...And Sylvia herself appeared surprised that Henry popped up after #5...

I think she wasn't surprised as much as

Spoiler

concerned. Maybe his job is simply to act the part of the messenger, but he got suspicious of Sylvia and actually came to check out who she was conning this time. She was concerned Henry was on to her, and then after being with Travis after the next fight, she flees the scene more or less, and Henry gets more agitated after seeing who Travis was and made it a bit more personal. He did say he had nothing to do with it, but what would be his motivation for admitting he was in on it? His part in the scheme was relatively minor. He could have just made those calls, not entirely knowing what Sylvia was up to, hence he finds her just 'disappearing' from time to time to make some extra cash.

 

[Enduin]

When it comes to NMH2, it just has to happen, regardless of the story situation. To me it has to happen because this combat system needs to continue and develop.

When, where and who it revolves around doesnt particularly interest me because I know I will love whatever Suda comes up with. But if he does decide to continue with the NMH plot and characters, I would like for him to continue with satirizing game/movie plots and not try to actually reconcile and make sense of NMH's plot seriously, but rather do whatever he pleases regardless of making sense.

You guys are trying really hard to make sense of Henry and so on but I think youre wrong in trying so. Youre attempting to make sense of something that is not supposed to make sense.

Once the Rank 1 battle comes available the whole story loses all credibility and direction, everything was thrown out the window. Applying the new information to what happened and why doesnt work, and its not supposed to. Its the whole point, the twists and revelations are just there to ruin everything, continuing and emphasizing how so many games and movies are devoid of good and clever story telling so they must resort to absurd twists and character introductions at the very end that make no sense in order to have an interesting ending.

 

[Alts]

Once the Rank 1 battle comes available the whole story loses all credibility and direction, everything was thrown out the window. Applying the new information to what happened and why doesnt work, and its not supposed to. Its the whole point, the twists and revelations are just there to ruin everything, continuing and emphasizing how so many games and movies are devoid of good and clever story telling so they must resort to absurd twists and character introductions at the very end that make no sense in order to have an interesting ending.

The twists are there simply to be twists. That's how I feel about it. The maturity theme, however, is legitimate, i feel.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Lol, I just found out you can

Spoiler

kick open garbage dumps for T-shirts and stuff

, now I must search the city! :O

 

[Akai]

I think she wasn't surprised as much as

Spoiler

concerned. Maybe his job is simply to act the part of the messenger, but he got suspicious of Sylvia and actually came to check out who she was conning this time. She was concerned Henry was on to her, and then after being with Travis after the next fight, she flees the scene more or less, and Henry gets more agitated after seeing who Travis was and made it a bit more personal. He did say he had nothing to do with it, but what would be his motivation for admitting he was in on it? His part in the scheme was relatively minor. He could have just made those calls, not entirely knowing what Sylvia was up to, hence he finds her just 'disappearing' from time to time to make some extra cash.

That definitely makes sense...Of course, you could also add

Spoiler

that Henry possibly didn't want to admit to be part of Sylvia's cons as a matter of pride (not wanting to admit that he was at her bidding, etc.)

 

[Femmeworth]

One thing I don't understand is why

Spoiler

Travis' answering machine has the same voice as Henry? What I mean is the message when there are no messages.

 

[John Harker]

You guys are trying really hard to make sense of Henry and so on but I think youre wrong in trying so. Youre attempting to make sense of something that is not supposed to make sense.

Once the Rank 1 battle comes available the whole story loses all credibility and direction, everything was thrown out the window. Applying the new information to what happened and why doesnt work, and its not supposed to. Its the whole point, the twists and revelations are just there to ruin everything, continuing and emphasizing how so many games and movies are devoid of good and clever story telling so they must resort to absurd twists and character introductions at the very end that make no sense in order to have an interesting ending.

But this is where we differ slightly.
The story does matter, and fairly deeply. It isn't the story that is what is satiracal here, so much as the way it is presented. From the opening line to the final scene, the whole way I looked at it was that the game itself was very self aware. The game knew it was a game. The narrative was important and complex, but it was struggling to be heard and understood because it was being delivered to you via a video game. So a lot of references and comments and things were thrown into the story so you never forgot you were playing a video game, but that doesn't belittle the actual events of the game itself, the actual story and narrative. As Alts is trying to point say to some extent, the themes and allegorical nature and so forth are important and real and so is the narrative, its just struggling within the boundaries of the video game world and doesn't let you forget it.

So to me it isn't so much trying to piece together a useless or senseless plot, its more like trying to pull back the presentation curtain and see what really happened. A lot of the lines were delivered in jest or as a video game satire or a movie joke or whatever, but that simply underlies the fact that a real story was happening.

 

[John Harker]

Think of the movie Magnolia.

It was a story that knew it was a movie and used film and tv in a self-aware manner to tell its story. Just because it rained frogs, should we throw out the entire narrative as nonsensical?

 

[sonicspear64]

One thing I don't understand is why

Spoiler

Travis' answering machine has the same voice as Henry? What I mean is the message when there are no messages.

Yeah I was going to say that too. That's why I'm not sure if it was

Spoiler

Henry. Maybe he does stupid telemarketing (which I know is stupid since he went to college).

 

[Jirotrom]

Is this the message? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHjEspjuU9w

nice... thanks, yeah thats definitely henry.

 

[Enduin]

But this is where we differ slightly.
The story does matter, and fairly deeply. It isn't the story that is what is satiracal here, so much as the way it is presented. From the opening line to the final scene, the whole way I looked at it was that the game itself was very self aware. The game knew it was a game. The narrative was important and complex, but it was struggling to be heard and understood because it was being delivered to you via a video game. So a lot of references and comments and things were thrown into the story so you never forgot you were playing a video game, but that doesn't belittle the actual events of the game itself, the actual story and narrative. As Alts is trying to point say to some extent, the themes and allegorical nature and so forth are important and real and so is the narrative, its just struggling within the boundaries of the video game world and doesn't let you forget it.

So to me it isn't so much trying to piece together a useless or senseless plot, its more like trying to pull back the presentation curtain and see what really happened. A lot of the lines were delivered in jest or as a video game satire or a movie joke or whatever, but that simply underlies the fact that a real story was happening.

I do think you are absolutely correct in saying that there was a serious plot trying to come out, but its boxed in and mashed to pieces in the confines of a video game, but it somewhat reaffirms my previous remarks where in the end Suda continues to satirize by doing what so many games do and that is throwing endless amounts of twists at the very end, which disrupt and in some cases destroys the story all together.

The very act of trying to add some extra depth and cleverness to their story in fact ruins everything theyve created, a good example to me is Fahrenheit(Indigo Prophecy), 2/3 the way was a great plot and story telling, but due to whatever issues in game development they could not fully realize their story and ended with nonsensical twists and revelations that completely ruined the game for me and stripped away any qualities and merits the plot had in the earlier parts of the game.

And thats kind of my point about the end of NMH. The plot twists and revelations are so absurd and undeveloped due to their presentation and implementation that they in many ways discredit and destroy any semblance of a rational plot before them. The story and events themselves arent satirical, like you said, but how they are presented is and by that very fact it prevents us from finding any concrete and rational understanding of what really was going on.

Just one example is

Spoiler

Jeane's monologue, Jeane herself came out of nowhere and was so complicated and integral to the real story it was too much to present but ultimately did not matter because it was all fast forwarded through, we were never meant to understand it all.

So in the end there may have been a fully developed and realized plot, but what we are given is so cut up and insufficient we are ultimately unable to piece it all together. The depth and interesting intricacies of story itself ruins itself, which is for me one of the many reasons NMH is so great.

 

[Error]

all the plot twists at the end were fully intentional, if you take NMH story as satire then it all makes sense but if you try to approach it with another mindset then you are missing the whole point of the story.

 

[FooTemps]

Well I bought the game last week and finally got to crack into it today! My god I totally should have day 1'ed this game! All I have to say.

(combat = awesome)

 

[hclflow]

Got this last week and popped the shrinkwrap last night. HOLY COW.

While there are fleeting moments when I want to break my TV, this game is filled with too much awesome to be ignored by any Wii owner who isn't so filled with cynicism that they can't fit on their toilet.

BLUEBERRY CHEESE BROWNIEEEE

 

[Synless]

Thanks for that man.

I've been saying that for 3 pages.
How can you listen to that and NOT

Spoiler

think its Henry? The voice from the beginning sounded like him but was trying to cover the accent. And as I said, ever since the Big Show ranking, Sylvia disappears, and the voice messages have been shorter, curter, and sometimes ruder. Suspicions abound. Till finally Henry confronts him.

Damn....you were right. You have a good ear because

Spoiler

I hadn't heard his voice change from the one accent to his own, but now it's clear as day. That was for sure Henry's voice.

 

[rollingstart]

all the plot twists at the end were fully intentional, if you take NMH story as satire then it all makes sense but if you try to approach it with another mindset then you are missing the whole point of the story.

yeah, I dont think the story is trying to be real serious or anything.

I mean,

Spoiler

the number 1 was pretty much Darth Vader and claiming to be your father, then the game pulls a switch on you and has you against your sister, then with your brother being revealed at the end of the game and all that. Then you have things like in the Shinobu fight her claiming you killed her father, it didnt really mean anything other than trying to make it more like Samurai movie type atmosphere...shit like that.

 

[Dr.Acula]

I'm in Canada, and the local games store has been getting the US import in irregularly, and I am ecstatic to say that I got a copy of this and gave it a solid two hours of playing time.

I have to say while I loved the style and story of Killer7, I just could not get that far into it because I absolutely hated the game play. It made me think, "can a great game be a crappy game at the same time?" I gave up on it, and was prepared to 'take it or leave it' with NMH. I must say though, that I am loving NMH, it's just crazy, and the game play is actually pretty good, I don't mind the waggle as much as some people, and so far the variety has been strong enough that I'm not getting frustrated (like with some other games -I'm looking at you

Spoiler

Odin Sphere

).

Long live Suda 51!

 

[goldenticket]

hey im looking for general tips for bitter mode. like i died getting to the rank 7 fight. that one room that starts with 2 guys with guns messed me up. i didnt have enough power when i got to the room towards the end of it with 3 guys with light sabers. so some helpful hints/strategies for bitter mode would be nice

 

[hclflow]

The more I play this game, the more times I punch myself for not opening it the day I got it.

WORK BE DAMNED!