Joe Molotov
Member
Add "Shadow Complex" and "Epic" to the banned filter. That worked really well last time!!
Mooreberg said:You guys are just being ridiculous now. I don't see what Epic's prior products have to do with this. The real productive thing to do is track and down every copy of Shadow Complex and smash it with a hammer.
Loxley said:Is this a rhetorical question? This has got to be one of the strangest posts in the gaming discussion forum that I've seen in a while, which is saying something.
hampig said:You know what, you're right. Boycott the game, save gay rights! That will show him. :lol
Amir0x said:Do you realize how many amazing works of art, literature and cinema have been made that you've loved, that have probably been written by homophobes, racists and pedophiles?
If you're going to stop playing games because they are associated with someone who is this, you better stop doing a lot of things.
The slippery slope goes far.
For example. You should never, ever read anything by Lovecraft. And you probably should ditch the classic works by Aldous Huxley.
If the only issue is you have trouble contributing -any- money to -any- homophone currently alive, then the problem is you've probably done it HUNDREDS of times and you just didn't know it. But these games are a collection of their parts. No one person represents the product in this case. Nobody anywhere is endorsing homophobia through this product.
In essence, it comes to this:
we have to accept in our gray world, where things often don't have perfect conclusions or morally "right" endings, that people who are racist and homophobic and who like to molest kids... they sometimes make great things.
They sometimes make amazing, wonderful things.
And that extends to games as well. You should do what you feel is right as it's your money, but you should also acknowledge that you are not going to hurt Orson Scott Card or send him any message he will understand. He is already highly successful, and has made good works of art. He is also a homophobe.
Thus is the nature of our dark world.
True. But if you know and the matter at hand is important to you, it's easy to see how a person can have trouble giving money to said product, right? What you're saying is basically an elaborate version of "Well, if you're a vegetarian, why don't you just go live in a tree!" or "If you're against global warming, why don't you just kill yourself, cause you also release carbon dioxide!".Amir0x said:Do you realize how many amazing works of art, literature and cinema have been made that you've loved, that have probably been written by homophobes, racists and pedophiles?
If you're going to stop playing games because they are associated with someone who is this, you better stop doing a lot of things.
The slippery slope goes far.
For example. You should never, ever read anything by Lovecraft. And you probably should ditch the classic works by Aldous Huxley.
If the only issue is you have trouble contributing -any- money to -any- homophone currently alive, then the problem is you've probably done it HUNDREDS of times and you just didn't know it. But these games are a collection of their parts. No one person represents the product in this case. Nobody anywhere is endorsing homophobia through this product.
Y2Kev said:I think boycotts only work when they are very targeted so that people can actually participate in them...I think a boycott of anyone who has anything to do with UE3 doesn't really target the Card relationship and makes the whole idea kind of a joke.
Amir0x said:Do you realize how many amazing works of art, literature and cinema have been made that you've loved, that have probably been written by homophobes, racists and pedophiles?
If you're going to stop playing games because they are associated with someone who is this, you better stop doing a lot of things.
The slippery slope goes far.
For example. You should never, ever read anything by Lovecraft. And you probably should ditch the classic works by Aldous Huxley.
If the only issue is you have trouble contributing -any- money to -any- homophobe currently alive, then the problem is you've probably done it HUNDREDS of times and you just didn't know it. But these games are a collection of their parts. No one person represents the product in this case. Nobody anywhere is endorsing homophobia through this product.
In essence, it comes to this:
we have to accept in our gray world, where things often don't have perfect conclusions or morally "right" endings, that people who are racist and homophobic and who like to molest kids... they sometimes make great things.
They sometimes make amazing, wonderful things.
And that extends to games as well. You should do what you feel is right as it's your money, but you should also acknowledge that you are not going to hurt Orson Scott Card or send him any message he will understand. He is already highly successful, and has made good works of art. He is also a homophobe.
Thus is the nature of our dark world.
Mercury Fred said:As has been pointed out many, many times already in this thread, there is a big difference between holding a particular view and using one's power, money and influence to push an agenda that strips rights from other people.
sn00zer said:I find it very funny that the left is known for huge free speech support yet this seems like the digital equivalent of a book burning.
Amir0x said:Do you realize how many amazing works of art, literature and cinema have been made that you've loved, that have probably been written by homophobes, racists and pedophiles?
If you're going to stop playing games because they are associated with someone who is this, you better stop doing a lot of things.
MrHicks said:lol @ all the "i dont care who/what made the game as long as its good ill buy it" people
you guys would buy furniture put together in concentration camps made by Hitler Inc. too?
who cares about his views right ? they make damn good tables
it DOES matter how products are made or whos associated with them for fucks sake
No, they're being attacked because of flawed logic. It's as simple as that. I'm all for gay rights, whatever, fine by me. But I recognize that punishing an entire team of hard working people just to put a small dent in a already rich mans pocket is a stupid idea.Big-E said:I haven't even said we should all boycott the game. I am trying to defend the ones that did because they are being attacked by idiots in this thread for no reason at all.
Google said:There are more than enough affluent celebrities using their power, money and influence to push the exact opposite agenda.
Google said:There are more than enough affluent celebrities using their power, money and influence to push the exact opposite agenda.
And homophobes are free to boycott those people if they choose. What's your point?Google said:There are more than enough affluent celebrities using their power, money and influence to push the exact opposite agenda.
holy fucking shitsn00zer said:I find it very funny that the left is known for huge free speech support yet this seems like the digital equivalent of a book burning.
Honestly if it was a great game, like really genre defining, I would buy it.Coins said:If Jack Thompson helped make a non-violent puzzle game that was great, and you knew some of the money he made was going to his activities he is commonly known for, would you still buy the game?
Ah, of course... a hate reply, was to be expected, but look, i didn't want to upset anyone; as i said, i think Card is an idiot, a bigot if you prefer... but now you're saying i'm bumbling something... and afraid to live in the... ?Timber said:Worst thread? Maybe, but only because of replies like yours. Yes, that is a valid reason not to buy a game. But I guess this falls on deaf ears to people like you who don't give more than an ounce of thought to things, bumble along in their ignorance and are afraid to live in the real world.
This thread is going in circles because nobody wants to pay attention to this point.Mercury Fred said:As has been pointed out many, many times already in this thread, there is a big difference between holding a particular view and using one's power, money and influence to push an agenda that strips rights from other people.
ALeperMessiah said:If conservatives followed the logic of the OP they wouldn't be able to watch, read, listen, or play anything.
EmCeeGramr said:Wow, slippery slope fallacy and just saying "well the world sucks, so no point trying to make things better." Literary skill on par with Card's (he is a terrible writer).
Souldriver said:True. But if you know and the matter at hand is important to you, it's easy to see how a person can have trouble giving money to said product, right? What you're saying is basically an elaborate version of "Well, if you're a vegetarian, why don't you just go live in a tree!" or "If you're against global warming, why don't you just kill yourself, cause you also release carbon dioxide!".
Off course nobody can be 100% consistent with his ideals/morals, cause nobody is 100% all knowing (or f.e. has the financial means to). But it's a admirable thing to try and be as consistent as possible with them.
:lolGoogle said:There are more than enough affluent celebrities using their power, money and influence to push the exact opposite agenda.
True, as long as people ignore it, I'm just going to keep posting it.Calcaneus said:This thread is going in circles because nobody wants to pay attention to this point.
TheKurgan said:How do you make the jump from political/religious contributions to Nazi concentration camps?
If Chair was funding genocide then YES I would probably boycott their game. But they arent so I wont.
Amir0x said:One, it's not a fallacy. It is logical to conclude that if person A believes nothing made by a homophobe should be supported if it is possible to contribute to some anti-homosexual agenda, then the result of that belief could extend further to classic literature written by such individuals (because what message does that send!), to other games made by bit players who happened to be homophobes. I established my chain.
IF you believe money here is going to fund some anti-homosexual agenda, you're free to boycott. But there are far better ways to impact change on the world in a legitimate fashion than this. Your desire to push this change is not going to come any faster either way.
Amir0x said:IF you believe money here is going to fund some anti-homosexual agenda, you're free to boycott. But there are far better ways to impact change on the world in a legitimate fashion than this. Your desire to push this change is not going to come any faster either way.
EmCeeGramr said:Yes, reading classic well-known literature written by people with controversial opinions who are dead and gone is exactly the same as giving money to people who actively run campaigns to deny others human rights.
The people behind Shadow Complex DO NOT oppose gays. One man, who had nothing to do with the development of the game, is where the blame is being aimed. Don't buy his damn books if you want to boycott something.squinters said:This is the exact equivalent of someone boycotting Pepsi because they support gays.
If you want to oppose a good product because of the people behind it then go ahead, but you'll probably have to find a new hobbies, because a lot of men are involved with making games and I'm not sure they all share the same views you do.
Pretty much. I can't help but take those arguing for a boycott much less seriously. They sound childish and I'm one who completely disagrees and despises Orson Scott Card. I just can't fathom how anyone could think that something like this would be worthwhile. If you're really serious about working to help the gay community, this is about the least effective thing you could do. NOBODY is going to connect the failure of this game to the anti-gay sentiments of an idiot author like Card.A boycott on a game, a quality game, a game that has no homophobic overtones*... it just... comes across as some kind of infantile power trip.
squinters said:This is the exact equivalent of someone boycotting Pepsi because they support gays.
The people I intended it for will know it was written for them. Whatever conclusion you end up with, if at all, I really don't care. Sorry.MightyHedgehog said:So, respect to everyone? Or are not giving respect to those that disagree with boycotting? What the hell do you mean, exactly?
Mercury Fred said:True, as long as people ignore it, I'm just going to keep posting it.
kodt said:I posed a question that was largely ignored.
If Orson Scott Card owned your local electric company would you have your electricity disconnected?
Expand that.. what if he had a monopoly on all of the electricity in the USA? (or whatever country you live in)
Cheech said:It's actually worse than that, because Card is just one author. Pepsi is a gigantic, multinational corporation. Same for Disney.
OP is a hypocrite, if he drinks Pepsi or has ever bought a Disney product. Not buying a product because you perceive someone involved as evil, nobody is going to have an issue with that. But posting such on a forum that thousands of people read, well, that is something different. He's now no better than Pepsi, Disney, or Card himself for whoring his controversial views out to the general public.
Shadow Complex is awesome, BTW.
Yeah, an essential utility for modern living is the same as a leisure product.kodt said:I posed a question that was largely ignored.
If Orson Scott Card owned your local electric company would you have your electricity disconnected?
Expand that.. what if he had a monopoly on all of the electricity in the USA? (or whatever country you live in)
Mercury Fred said:True, as long as people ignore it, I'm just going to keep posting it.