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Skyrim: Gigantic Info Flood And Screens [Update: Tons Of New Info In OP]
- Thread starter Blue Ninja
- Start date
Confidence Man
Member
From what I've seen the things that are lacking are really down to being (willingly) restrained by consoles. High-quality assets, advanced effects like SSAO and DOF, more dense vegetation, etc.. I wouldn't think there's any reason they couldn't do this stuff on PC, they just don't care enough to.
In some ways the engine is doing more than The Witcher 2. Go into a tavern or house in the latter game and notice that lights don't cast any shadows (like Oblivion). TW2 gets by on the quality of it's assets more than anything.
In some ways the engine is doing more than The Witcher 2. Go into a tavern or house in the latter game and notice that lights don't cast any shadows (like Oblivion). TW2 gets by on the quality of it's assets more than anything.
VisanidethDM
Banned
Solo said:
They look fantastic for the X360, tho. I REALLY doubt TW2 will look better than this on consoles.
VisanidethDM
Banned
DennisK4 said:
It wasn't. 36-40 millions isn't tiny. Stop spreading this kind of misinformation :<.
VisanidethDM
Banned
MrBig said:
He's just like that, can't say I agree, but he argumented the stance reasonably in the past.
Stahsky
A passionate embrace, a beautiful memory lingers.
jett said:
The facial animations I can agree with, as well as the bloom, but bad animation in general? I've always been rather picky with animations in games and I found that the majority of it in the Witcher 2 to be quite nice. Combat for example. Can't say I agree with that dude.
VisanidethDM
Banned
DennisK4 said:
Game is made in Poland, which has an insanely lower average cost-per-worker ration (avg in europe is 2400 euro, Poland is 662). Basically, you can assume that as long as paying workforce goes, the budget for producing something in Poland is 4 times higher.
VisanidethDM
Banned
UrbanRats said:
Jett's statement is extreme, but animation in TW2 is much less than stellar.
DigitalDevil
Member
Can a mod please rename this thread to "witcher 2 thread of who cares about elder scrolls anyway" please?
Jesus christ.
Jesus christ.
wit3tyg3r
Member
DennisK4 said:
Well, you still have to realize that TES is not only larger in scale, but there's so much that Bethesda has put into the game that it doesn't allow for super high quality graphics. Lots of people continue to complain about the graphics in TES, but perhaps just fail to realize the limitations of 3D meshes and textures for games and the technical obstacles of game design. Yes it's important for graphics to be at their highest, but there are only a certain amount of polygons a GPU can render at time. And since the 360 is around 6 years old, that poly count limit is very low compared to today's GPUs.
Have you ever wondered why modern non-open racing games look ungodly amazing? It's because they have such smaller/closed areas that they can bump up the poly count on all of their meshes. Now, on a game as big as TES (and on top of that all the detail put into the tiniest things like the food, the plants, the silverware), Bethesda has pushed the limits of the number of polys that the 360's GPU can render at a time. There's more to the TES games than just the weapons and armor your character is using.
On top of all that, Bethesda is limited by the disk size. They have to make the meshes and textures small enough to be able to fit the entire game on a dual-layer DVD. That includes all of the code, all of the textures, all of the meshes, all of the audio, all of the images. All of the animation bakes, all of the engines (including, but not limited to, the render engine, the physics engine, the sound engine, the lighting engine, the collision-calculation engine, the particle engine, and many more [sometimes they can be combined, but often they are not]).
You can't just say "Other games are doing it, why not TES." Other games are not as detailed or on par with the scale of TES. And you definitely cannot compare BioWare games or even the Witcher games to TES because neither BioWare nor The Witcher games utilize environment streaming like TES...in other words, BioWare games and The Witcher aren't as seamless as TES: The environments are broken off into sections rather than being streamlined as one large piece of mesh. Now, I can't speak for Witcher 2 since I am still in the middle of Witcher 1, so I don't know how Witcher 2 is built.
But anyways, I hate when people bash on the graphics/textures of TES games, because frankly no other game is on par with the scale and detail of TES games. And I think I can say that with complete confidence. And since this is all being developed on the 360's specs and then being ported to PC, the graphics/meshes will only be on par with the 360 version. Yes, they can always use higher quality textures because it's as simple as reducing the the resolution (mind you, there is a difference between actual dimensions of the texture images and the resolution.) for the 360, but it is twice the work to rebuild higher-poly versions of the meshes for the PC.
So next time you think about comparing TES to other similar games, realize that TES doesn't just have the environment and the weapons/armor and the few potion items to render. It has so much more and in much more detail, so everything has to be reduced in quality and poly-count just to be able to put all of that in the game. If you want something on par with graphics of Two Worlds 2, then play a game on par with Two Worlds 2. TES goes much more beyond Two Worlds 2 that they aren't directly comparable, other than the fact that they're both RPG's in a fantasy setting.
wit3tyg3r said:
No, no. Your assumption that TES games are somehow doing way more that other open-world RPGs like Risen and Two Worlds II and therefore should get a free pass on falling behind on the graphics is just plain wrong.
Elder Scrolls games are fairly compared to other open-world games (Fallout 3 and New Vegas too) and will just have to suffer criticism if the graphics are noticeably worse than games with much smaller budgets.
Risen 2 is around the corner and looks like it will be a stunner.
Stahsky
A passionate embrace, a beautiful memory lingers.
DennisK4 said:
Graphically, yeah. Not too sure what to think of in terms of the gameplay. I couldn't get into Risen 1. I just wasn't having much fun with the combat and it pulled my interest away. But I find it hard to judge much more of the game as I probably only gave the game a good 4 hours worth of my time before giving up on it. I don't even remember finding a place to pick a class. Or if there even were those options. I really should give that game another shot.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold the phone. You people are saying a PC exclusive looks better than a game designed for consoles and PC? Get the fuck outta here!
Obviously the Witcher 2 looks better but it's also much smaller and much more focused. It's also PC exclusive and requires a damn powerful PC to really push it. Skyrim might not have the level of detail on the textures but it'll still look great.
Two Worlds 2 might look great on a technical level but on an artistic level skyrim tears it a new one from what I've seen. And lets not kid our self. On a gameplay level it'll massacre TW2.
Obviously the Witcher 2 looks better but it's also much smaller and much more focused. It's also PC exclusive and requires a damn powerful PC to really push it. Skyrim might not have the level of detail on the textures but it'll still look great.
Two Worlds 2 might look great on a technical level but on an artistic level skyrim tears it a new one from what I've seen. And lets not kid our self. On a gameplay level it'll massacre TW2.
wit3tyg3r
Member
recklessmind said:
Go study for a masters in Game Design and tell me that again. I know what I'm talking about because I am working on getting a degree in Game Design. I'm not making any of that up.
DennisK4 said:
I'm not saying that they should get a free pass. I'm saying that until the primary development platform gets a hardware upgrade, games on scale with TES have no other option but to have lower quality graphics if the developers feel like putting as much detail into the world as Bethesda.
And Fallout 3 and New Vegas were both built on Oblivion's engine and the only reason they look slightly better is because there is little to no foliage to render. It's surprising how many polys one tree requires. And then multiply that number by the thousands upon thousands of plants and trees in TES. And the lighting in those games is much grimier than Oblivion, so it's harder to see as many defects in the meshes as it would be in Oblivion, where the lighting and colors are bright and are in a full rage of the spectrum.
Stahsky
A passionate embrace, a beautiful memory lingers.
DennisK4 said:
Well damnit, guess I'll be giving this another attempt this summer. I know it's off topic, but I might as well ask real fast: Any quick tips for my next attempt? Do's or Dont's? I always felt like I was missing something entirely with the game, but a nice open world RPG sounds really good right about now after enjoying the crap out of TW2.
herzogzwei1989
Banned
Obviously Skyrim has been made with Xbox 360 (and PS3) in mind. It's not meant to push current high-end PCs, unlike say, Battlefield 3.
nelsonroyale
Member
This looks really damn good...just because its not as impressive as the Witcher 2, doesnt mean it looks bad. The art + tech creates a more than pleasing vision. Oblivion was boring in almost all regards:
boring animation
boring world
boring story
boring combat
boring characters
boring boring
Its scope was impressive but the fun element was neglected
boring animation
boring world
boring story
boring combat
boring characters
boring boring
Its scope was impressive but the fun element was neglected
Yes good gameplay and content is more important than bleeding edge graphics. However, Witcher 2 proves that a game can have both. It's really, really good.
I wish Skyrim had better graphics but I know that once I have the game in front of me, it won't matter. Morrowind had really rough graphics even for its time and it still became my favorite RPG ever. The Elder Scrolls series' lore/setting/design is just good enough to make up for its dated visuals.
I wish Skyrim had better graphics but I know that once I have the game in front of me, it won't matter. Morrowind had really rough graphics even for its time and it still became my favorite RPG ever. The Elder Scrolls series' lore/setting/design is just good enough to make up for its dated visuals.
Witcher 2 is Heavy Rain and JC 2 is Skyrim? Thats the only way that makes sense. I prefer the detail of Witcher 2 but i am more than looking forward to whatever beautiful stuff Bethesda can come up with for Skyrim.low-G said:
The better that game looks the better for all of us. Bethesda pretty much has the true giant open world formula on lockdown right now.
UnblessedSoul
Member
The witcher 2 is complete shit, yes it has nice graphics but gameplay, quests everything else is sterile, stop being butthurt cause they've decided to switch to platforms that actually make them money
DennisK4 said:
Don't be stupid. Most games come out on multiplatforms these days. If you want to be picky, then all games looked like ass next to Crysis an Witcher 2. They beat everything and everything else is behind and without an excuse. Sorry Mass Effect 2, sorry Portal 2, you look like shit because your effects and textures aren't blowing my mind and crippling my high end PC.
What Skyrim lacks in technical power, it more than compensates in art design which in my opinion id MUCH more important. Why have a powerful engine with all the bells and whistles if it's not used in a artful way?
This screen I think it rivals anything in the witcher 2 in terms of atmosphere and art(and yes, I'm aware it's compressed and shitty quality I took it from the trailer) and beats Risen or TW2 easily.
