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SNES vs Genesis Sound

also want to add that the snes sound chip is basically the same concept as a cheap store bought keyboard with built in sound presets.

This is why I'm meh on it. My mother was a music teacher and there were keyboards everywhere around our house during the time. The SNES was basically like those except significantly worse in musicality and raw sonic fidelity. The Genesis was a synthesizer built by Yamaha, who had just come off of practically defining an entire decade of synthesizers in music. Great synth vs really terrible general MIDI soundset that was of poor quality even for the time.

SNES could go a variety of things all at poor quality compared to a Fisher Price My 1st Keyboard vs Genesis having less variety but capable of near studio-quality synthesis. At least there is the option for good fidelity on the Genesis.
 

Synth

Member
This is why I'm meh on it. My mother was a music teacher and there were keyboards everywhere around our house during the time. The SNES was basically like those except significantly worse in musicality and raw sonic fidelity. The Genesis was a synthesizer built by Yamaha, who had just come off of practically defining an entire decade of synthesizers in music. Great synth vs really terrible general MIDI soundset that was of poor quality even for the time.

SNES could go a variety of things all at poor quality compared to a Fisher Price My 1st Keyboard vs Genesis having less variety but capable of near studio-quality synthesis. At least there is the option for good fidelity on the Genesis.

And this is basically what is was trying to get across with my wall of text... I should probably PM everything to you, and let you post a summary instead. :p
 
This is where nostaligia prevails about everything else. Here's a quick comparison between Super Ghouls'N Ghosts (SNES) vs Ghouls's Ghosts (Genesis) Graveyard level music.


SNES was able to emulate every sound the Genesis chip could produce. Genesis couldn't.

But sure if you prefered Sonic games to mario games then yes, I am guessing you will prefer the (sonic) music with the Genesis.

I still prefer listening to Little Nemo (NES) music than most SNES music...

You do realize that if you are going to make this point you should probably use actual Genesis audio and not, I dunno, a MIDI of the song right?

Just sayin'.
 

Nzyme32

Member
I'm a HUGE snes sound fan over genesis. I feel that much character, accenting and atmosphere are lost to the inherent beeps of boop of the genesis. Here are two examples of each.

Street Fighter 2 Balrog Theme - SNES vs GENESIS

My Favourite example is with darker music. The sounds of the snes are more characterful than on the genesis and snes provides accenting for more nuanced timbres versus the genesis' trademark almost corny spacey treble oriented whines

Mortal Kombat - Continue/Shaolin Ending - SNES vs GENESIS

On the other side of the coin, the genesis could produce higher quality samples in terms of percussion and bass sounds. But some instruments suffered. The reduced audio quality of the snes didn't seem so problematic to me as it was capable enough whilst retaining a wide variety of sound samples

I know this is all subjective, but I can't get enough of the SNES, it might be that also as a musician focused on fusion and jazz, the ability to experience different timbre and accenting is something I adore
 

s_mirage

Member
I'm a HUGE snes sound fan over genesis. I feel that much character, accenting and atmosphere are lost to the inherent beeps of boop of the genesis. Here are two examples of each.

Street Fighter 2 Balrog Theme - SNES vs GENESIS

My Favourite example is with darker music. The sounds of the snes are more characterful than on the genesis and snes provides accenting for more nuanced timbres versus the genesis' trademark almost corny spacey treble oriented whines

Mortal Kombat - Continue/Shaolin Ending - SNES vs GENESIS

On the other side of the coin, the genesis could produce higher quality samples in terms of percussion and bass sounds. But some instruments suffered. The reduced audio quality of the snes didn't seem so problematic to me as it was capable enough whilst retaining a wide variety of sound samples

I know this is all subjective, but I can't get enough of the SNES, it might be that also as a musician focused on fusion and jazz, the ability to experience different timbre and accenting is something I adore

It certainly is subjective. From my perspective the samples in that Mortal Kombat example are so wretched that they ruin any atmosphere that the original had, and Balrog's theme sounds out of tune on the SNES. Actually, that's a problem I seem to recall having with the SNES version in general.

Anyway, on to the real reason I'm posting. That Genesis SFII clip you're using isn't from the released version of SFII:SCE.
 
Don't have time to do it but compare the music from The Lion King on the SNES and then the Lion King on the Megadrive/Genesis....

Sums up this argument perfectly...
Are... you sure you want to go with that example? Positive? Well, okay, if you're certain, let's do this:

"To Die For"
SNES
Genesis

SNES version gets credit for having more choir samples. However, it really drops the ball with two things. It's slower tempo, first of all, although that's kind of debatable as to how much that really detracts. The bigger issue at hand, honestly, is what the hell were they thinking with that trumpet sample? It's a complete mood-killer.

Meanwhile, the Genesis version was fortunate enough to have Matt Furniss doing the music, and that was a guy who genuinely knew his way around an FM synth (case in point: he did the conversions of the first two Mortal Kombat games, which sounded so much better than the conversion of the third one, which he didn't do), so the offending lead instrument in the SNES version is replaced with a more serious-sounding brass-facsimile. It doesn't have quite as good of a choir, notably missing the high-pitched "HOOOOO" from about 15 seconds into the SNES version, although it still squeezes in a good "HOO" and "HAH" at appropriate moments.

Overall, for this one? I'm leaning Genesis. SNES would probably have taken the lead here if they hadn't royally screwed it up with that awful trumpet sample.

But you didn't want just one track, so let's dig deeper.

"Be Prepared"
SNES
Genesis

Actually, this one sounds better on the SNES, for the most part. Samples of actual bassoons and such work better, I think. It's not like the Genesis couldn't do a convincing bassoon - Aladdin had a nice one in "Arabian Nights" - but Furniss clearly opted for... whatever you call that, instead (sounds like that noise you get when you twang one of those door stopper springs). That said, I prefer one aspect of the Genesis version - the backing percussion instrument (sounds like a kalimba?) has some harmony on a separate channel, which is mostly missing in the SNES version (sounds more like a vibraphone there). Compare around 0:46 for both to see what I mean; the SNES version feels like it's missing some notes entirely, there.

----

Y'know, actually, you're right. This does illustrate the differences pretty clearly and effectively: it varies. Sometimes within the same soundtrack. For instance, with Toy Story I prefer the SNES version of "Red Alert!" to the Genesis one for having a more accurate piano noise, but swing back around for "Inside the Claw Machine", where the SNES version uses that same piano instrument in a more menacing piece where it doesn't fit, while the Genesis version breaks out the Master System's square lead, even giving it a nice echo on another channel.

So, too, it goes for a good chunk of the library.

"Level 5" in Earthworm Jim sounds better on the Genesis than the SNES, because the SNES has a really off-key bass at the beginning (assuming the Special Edition version was Tallarico's authorial intent).
"Lorenzen's Soil"/"ISO 9000" from Earthworm Jim 2 sounds better on the SNES than the Genesis, mostly because of the strings. (The PC/PS1/Saturn version blows both out of the water, of course, but those consoles aren't at issue here. Still, dat guitar.)

Captain America and the Avengers sounds like complete garbage on the SNES, compared to the Genesis (although that's a Hitoshi Sakimoto/Masaharu Iwata job, probably not the fairest comparison).
Spider-Man and the X-Men sounds pretty bad on the Genesis compared to the SNES (although that's a Tim and Geoff Follin job, also not a fair comparison).

It varies.
 
Damn, Genny EWJ sounds great through headphones. Such clean samples and great bass sounds.

Is there an Official Genesis Music thread somewhere where we can talk about this stuff without dumb drivebys? There should be.
 

truly101

I got grudge sucked!
I can't decide which is worse between the digital farts of the Genesis or the awful overused bwwarh bwwarh bwaarrrh of the trumpet sounds on the SNES. When both chips are used poorly, the music sucks regardless of the systems. I think I have a preference for the SNES music overall, but I really hate that trumpet sound.
 
I don't understand this disconnect---the SEGA line of hardware from Genesis through Saturn had special hardware capable, though sadly only decently explored on the Genesis at the time, of Special Things that simply result in and lend themselves to different realms of enjoyable sound to the SNES and respective peers per machine at the time. A straight comparison misses the point---which is that both were spiffy and, more importantly, it is a DAMN SHAME that FM Synth development fell off the tech map entirely post-Saturn as it is a most worthy of endeavors with much potential still remaining untapped in a sea of entirely Sample based doings.

Homogeneity in tech is not wise in long and absolute terms!

Only semi-comparable machine to the Genesis, stylistically for the purposes of this topic, would be a fully-tricked out MSX-Turbo with all the special chips blasting with reckless abandon and even that gets back to older tech and the heady times of Arcade/Synth wranglings and hacking about that was the 80's---that industrious hobbyist folks are still coming to terms with and picking up the pieces on to this very day.
 

GoaThief

Member
it is a DAMN SHAME that FM Synth development fell off the tech map entirely
No, it's really not a shame to be honest. Sample based audio for games is much more varied, flexible, sensible, applicable, cheaper and ultimately preferable to farting around with a console's built in synth.

The latter is way more limited. Why not just use a third party FM synth to make whatever you wanted then sample?
 
Because post-Saturn/FM-8/OPL4/etc, there are slim to no FM Synth 3rd party efforts afoot outside of extreme niches---everything fell to pieces after the 80's in the 90's (YAMAHA..sigh) without that impetus on this front helping as a catalyst on top of changes in the Arcade scene as people all raced ahead to Samples, other types of synthesis, and whatnot. Somewhat chicken/egg in terms of actual new chips/programmatic wizardry...but yeah.

Mind, sample based stuff is obviously awesome---but it is different and variety is the spice of life. Much of the "limits" of FM Synth would likely not quite be as they seem with proper investment of capital to research after all of these years much the same as the likes of the Amiga, which wasn't about FM Synth at all, got leapfrogged with time and effort.

Give me divergent tech paths any day of the week even if it takes it far off the beaten path into the wilderness before rough parallels happen---gotta value the entire lot of it as this entire scene is YOUNG as far as tech goes artistically and in absolute terms.

Hell, history went wrong on Formant Synth too considering what was possible back on the freaking NES with Mito Koumon---damn it short-sighted technological folks.
 
The latter is way more limited. Why not just use a third party FM synth to make whatever you wanted then sample?

While true so many modern games sound more like movies than video games with orchestral sounds used for immersion rather than just a good piece of synth VGM.

At times I wish modern consoles didn't have red book and wav files but just a synth so devs would be forced to use it.
 
No, it's really not a shame to be honest. Sample based audio for games is much more varied, flexible, sensible, applicable, cheaper and ultimately preferable to farting around with a console's built in synth.

The latter is way more limited. Why not just use a third party FM synth to make whatever you wanted then sample?

That wouldn't get you any further ahead than trying to approximate orchestral instruments with FM synth. Samples wouldn't allow the same freedom of modulation and filters that you get with realtime synthesis. So you end up adding many more samples to your music composition and playback, making the whole thing cumbersome and space-intensive.

YM2612 synth sounds raw to modern ears because of the lack of CPU power available for things like low-pass filters as applied to realtime synth of the time, and the fact that sample playback and mixing was all DIY and dependent on programmers' skill. Tons and tons of modern EDM uses realtime synthesis, but for that kind of thing you get unlimited horsepower to filter and add effects and compress, so people don't really think of that synthesis in the same way. But the basic strengths are very similar. The sampling capability in the SNES is about as antiquated as the synthesis in the Genesis - no better or worse. The SNES's filtering capabilities make its sound more palatable to many ears.

There's a reason Korg keeps making the synthesis-driven EMX1 workstation as well as the sample-driven ESX1.
 
No, it's really not a shame to be honest. Sample based audio for games is much more varied, flexible, sensible, applicable, cheaper and ultimately preferable to farting around with a console's built in synth.

The latter is way more limited. Why not just use a third party FM synth to make whatever you wanted then sample?

Cuz when the cyberpocalypse happens, we'll need that synth to sound good to our aural implants as we watch c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate, of course. It's the sound of THE FUTURE.
 

GoaThief

Member
Because post-Saturn/FM-8/OPL4/etc
I see where you are coming from, don't get me wrong I love me some FM8 on occasion. The industry has moved on so I guess big time fans like yourself will have to find another way to Trojan it back. :)

That wouldn't get you any further ahead than trying to approximate orchestral instruments with FM synth. Samples wouldn't allow the same freedom of modulation and filters that you get with realtime synthesis. So you end up adding many more samples to your music composition and playback, making the whole thing cumbersome and space-intensive.
Mmmm, this isn't really correct at all. You can sample and resample as many times as you like, the complexity of a piece of music as you're describing would for all purposes take up pretty much the same space as a fat drone when it comes to implementing it into a modern game environment as we're discussing in the latter part of this thread.

I don't see how the likes of the EMX1 come in to this discussion at all? What point were you trying to make there as it's a bit lost on me.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"

al5CC6N.gif
 

Missingno255

Neo Member
Genesis' sound chip was so shitty. Always had that screechy sound to the music and sound effects. SNES sounded sooo much better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf-zb1MdXe4
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnIrhXmeMnDrmrTUytNs_XjZla9CcgM1Y
For comparison for the above playlist: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4oew8veFCo
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnIrhXmeMnDo0tS62qZoi0GwH5fPK32TA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8wdVS2rLu0&feature=c4-overview&list=UUVfY-Nu0yuG-5cOYEw-ry0g
No screeching here.

SNES VS Genesis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQFytce51ls
Yet again, no screeching on the Genesis version.
SNES:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCDIX9rrW5U
Genesis:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHF1pf2bKHo
And again, NO screeching.
Yeah, no. Genesis does not have in, ANY WAY, a shitty sound chip when it's used right.
 

Mzo

Member
I don't think every multiplat suffered though, though what you said is true regardless.

No, sometimes the game was ported from the Genesis to the SNES like EWJ, Cool Spot, and Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure.

You can tell because the character sprites are all fat and stretched because of the SNES's weird resolution.
 

Timu

Member
No, sometimes the game was ported from the Genesis to the SNES like EWJ, Cool Spot, and Pitfall: The Mayan Adventure.

You can tell because the character sprites are all fat and stretched because of the SNES's weird resolution.
I stand corrected, guess my example wasn't the best.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
I stand corrected, guess my example wasn't the best.

It was basically the equivalent of a "360 vs PS3 processing power thread" where somebody plops down Bayonetta and calls it a "great comparison".
 

Crisium

Member

I've listened to so many of CakeJarey's PS1/PS2/PS3 FF tracks done in FFVI. It's a testament to the SNES's sound chip and how far ahead it was of its contemporaries (even the Neo Geo, graphical god of the 16-bit era, was inferior to the SNES in this regard).

FFX Battle Theme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTc6w8kq9wo

Sounds almost the damn same.

But I'm most impressed by The Extreme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdfiYr3Y2EM

I think I'd throw up hearing this on the Mega Drive. It had its own unique sound, undoubtedly, but the sheer variance possible by the SNES is unmatched. It holds up to the PS1 quite well - which is remarkable considering the 49 month release difference between the consoles.

Linked earlier:
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheLegendOfRenegade/videos

I applaud him for trying to get the Mega Drive to do the best of David Wise (as well as many others). Ambient music is not that consoles strong suite, but these don't sound too bad.
 
While true so many modern games sound more like movies than video games with orchestral sounds used for immersion rather than just a good piece of synth VGM.

At times I wish modern consoles didn't have red book and wav files but just a synth so devs would be forced to use it.

That's the one thing I miss. Video game music doesn't mean anything other than music in a video game. There was a time where you could make a good case for it being a genre with it's own unique tonal and sound pallette. It's funny though, in a lot of TV shows and movies they still use blips and bloops and chiptune to convey that someone is playing a video game. They might be holding a 360 controller but it's straight NES audio.

The Legend Will Never Die
 
How about music with vocals on SNES and Mega Drive?

Tales of Phantasia opening theme (SNES):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3SA9LuqQgA

ClayFighter opening theme (SNES vs Mega Drive):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmumBuRAuj8

Awesome Possum intro (Mega Drive):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hhQ6XCWCUA

Well, obviously a sampler is going to sound better than an FM synth when it comes to vocals.

I, for one, highly prefer (well-made) Genesis music. I feel that it has aged a lot better by the virtue of being a synth rather than using super compressed samples that often lack any kind of power on the SNES. I mean, obviously its going to be a lot more varied, easier to work with and thus produce a bigger library of good music - but yeah, give me a heavy synth bass instead any day of the week.
 

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
How about music with vocals on SNES and Mega Drive?

Tales of Phantasia opening theme (SNES):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3SA9LuqQgA

ClayFighter opening theme (SNES vs Mega Drive):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmumBuRAuj8

Awesome Possum intro (Mega Drive):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hhQ6XCWCUA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiLLN5U9w2U

>_>


NES could do some killer bass. I don't think the genesis had any similar sounding music like Sunsoft games.

Not even remotely true. In fact, Sunsoft DID a game on the Genesis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qmI21OowO8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6aZsRdLbqw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZRFRjuGAcg

Oh, and you want some killer bass?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXEOP1P3mBA
 

Celine

Member
The SNES's high resolution mode was pretty much garbage for actual game environments. It was limited to only 16 colours total. Higher colour standard resolution layers could be overlayed over top (RPM Racing shows this), but in the end the SNES's high resolution mode didn't amount to much outside of higher resolution menu's and text.
A "pseudo hi-res" mode (512 x 224, with horizontal dithering) was used with magnificent results on Kirby's Dreamland 3 for translucency and to give a more watercolor feel to the graphics.

Kirby3-forest.gif
 
Not even my favorite track, too.

Sometimes I wonder what it'd be like if you had a console that could simultaneously use the SNES APU and the Genesis's YM2612 and SN76496. You'd have sampled audio for strings, harps and such, but FM synth for guitars, bass and square waves. Best of both worlds.

You'd more or less have the Neo Geo, actually.

The NG had a Ricoh sampler chip in it as well as an FM synth chip (Off the top of my head the NG had 15 channels for sound).
 

angrygnat

Member
You are always going to be able to cherry pick examples of where the Genesis sounded better than the SNES, but overall the SNES won. Almost hands down. This coming from a huge lover of all things Sega.
 
snes gets the nod for 99% of 16 bit music in my opinion, with 3 genesis osts that stand out: comix zone, streets of rage 2, and toe jam and earl in panic on funkotron.
 

Shadoken

Member
Genesis games had better OST. The sound chip on the SNES is probably better though , most games on it had a more orchestral feel. Something the genesis couldnt do.
 
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