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[Jucksalbe]

This seems to be a big topic on the Balloon Fight Miiverse and rightfully so. Added my post to the long list of 50Hz complaints there. I don't want to play F-Zero in 50Hz again...

Victor Ireland worked with SCEE to fix that. So at least with imports they all can support 60hz.

Did they finally extend that to their full catalogue? Last time I checked they only fixed Alundra and Tomba, leaving most of their games at 50Hz.

 

[Syringe]

Totally agree, this is incredibly lazy and once again shows that Nintendo still isn't out to play ball with hardcore gamers.

 

[BocoDragon]

I guess they want to be faithful to the nostalgia of the PAL originals. I can imagine this is especially the case for games that had changed titles and censorship etc (ie Contra-> Gryzor/Probotector).

They should just put all international versions in the VC download...

 

[PedroPanache]

I remember seeing a friend playing a pirated copy of the US/NTSC version of Final Fantasy VII on his modded PS1, and it just blew me away, it was so much faster, there were no ugly borders and it felt smoother too. Not long after that, I started to import games and eventually bought a US PS2 and never bought another shitty PAL game again. Not to mention this was at a time when JRPG's were regularly passed up for PAL release, otherwise I would have missed some games that are still some of all my time favourites. So, yeah, for Nintendo to be putting out games in any form in their original PAL versions is a slap in the face of a consumer that is far more educated and informed about the products they buy than they ever were back in the days of the Megadrive, SNES, PS1. It's frustrating because it seems so arbitrary for them to continue to do this.

 

[ninge]

I imagine some of this is down to the fact that EU versions of games differ from the US versions - additional languages would have been added, licensing and rights would differ etc - If a game was changed for the EU market it might have had additional work done to compensate for the 60/50hz - removing that while leaving the other localisation in place would not be a simple to fix without access to the original code and data.

 

[elektrixx]

Once again Nintendo cover their ears and refuse to be normal.

 

[Bleep]

I imagine some of this is down to the fact that EU versions of games differ from the US versions - additional languages would have been added, licensing and rights would differ etc - If a game was changed for the EU market it might have had additional work done to compensate for the 60/50hz - removing that while leaving the other localisation in place would not be a simple to fix without access to the original code and data.

Games on the 3DS eShop are NTSC versions. For example, Ninja Gaiden is on the European eShop instead of Shadow Warriors.

 

[Ban Puncher]

At 35MB they could of included the PAL, NTSC/U, NTSC/J versions of the ROM and still have room for an old shitty RealPlay copy of the Super Mario Bros live action movie.


I really don't want to play F-Zero and Super Metroid with big black boarders and 17% slower gameplay and music.

 

[Bleep]

At 35MB they could of included the PAL, NTSC/U, NTSC/J versions of the ROM and still have room for an old shitty RealPlay copy of the Super Mario Bros live action movie.


I really don't want to play F-Zero and Super Metroid with big black boarders and 17% slower gameplay and music.

I'm pretty sure those games were fixed for PAL if I am remembering correctly, but they still won't be as good as in their native format.

 

[Robin64]

Well here's Sand Ocean on PAL:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2D6QBJjS_g

He gets 3'08''12 and says that would be 2'20''xx on the NTSC one.

Here's an NTSC one to compare:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhtpAcotE0g

Note that the sound is the same because the SNES used a seperate chip, the SPC, for this.

 

[Alexios]

They could simply pack the US ROM in the package instead of the PAL one.

But then you don't have the languages or whatever other changes.

 

[Koren]

"Please don't use ROMs on your PC. Just because they're free, you have plenty of modification options and they run better doesn't mean they're an option."

I'd say they usually don't, on the contrary (BSNES is an exception).

I'd rather have a legal option, too (even if I think that the combo SNES cart reader over USB + emulator would be legal here, if they haven't change the law, and for the price, you can play with the original pad)

 

[elektrixx]

But then you don't have the languages or whatever other changes.

I live in Australia. I don't need French and the rest of them. I can live without the Lylat Wars logo.

PAL players were always getting shitty ports. There is no reason for it to continue in English speaking countries.

 

[Number45]

Did they finally extend that to their full catalogue? Last time I checked they only fixed Alundra and Tomba, leaving most of their games at 50Hz.

SCEE didn't fix it, the localisation team fixed it. They've made their fix readily available, but it's up to the individual publisher I would imagine to determine its worth.

 

[elektrixx]

The official legal option isn't supposed to be the worst one.

 

[Bleep]

Well here's Sand Ocean on PAL:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2D6QBJjS_g

He gets 3'08''12 and says that would be 2'20''xx on the NTSC one.

Here's an NTSC one to compare:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhtpAcotE0g

Note that the sound is the same because the SNES used a seperate chip, the SPC, for this.

I'm totally wrong, my bad! I haven't played the PAL version in a very long time.

 

[Dachande]

Wow, I didn't know this was still happening. After I bought Gunstar Heroes on VC and saw it was the gimped 50Hz version, I resolved to never buy any VC games again because I can't trust them. Looks like that hasn't changed! Thanks for making my life easier, Nintendo!

 

[hodgy100]

Fortunately it all came to an end in 2005 and 2006 when 360 and PS3 allowed users to instruct the console to display *every* game in 60hz.

you'd think that but sonic 06 has 50hz slowdown if you played the game on a PAL sdtv on PS3

 

[Burai]

There's absolutely no excuse not to offer a 60Hz option that loads the US ROM with a disclaimer that it only displays text in English.

 

[eXistor]

I'm surprised people on miiverse even know this let alone notice it.

I was complaining about it on Miiverse yesterday and the second reaction I got was "who cares?". I fucking care! What is this, the Middle Ages? 50Hz is bad and you should feel bad for not caring.

It's stuff like this that makes me question Nintendo's sanity.

 

[Xater]

Yeah this is pretty dumb and guarantees that I will not buy a single VC game after Balloon Fight. Only got it because it was just 30 cents.

 

[Herne]

Don't really care, to be honest. I'm more concerned with Nintendo using terrible emulators, such as for the C64 and N64 respectively on the Wii's VC.

 

[Alexios]

Don't really care, to be honest. I'm more concerned with Nintendo using terrible emulators, such as for the C64 and N64 respectively on the Wii's VC.

What's wrong with N64 on VC? I don't own any games but tried those samples that were in SSBB and they seemed perfect.

 

[Herne]

Look up Majora's Mask VC on YouTube, then look up videos running on the original hardware. As for a C64 game, look up Mayhem in Monsterland on VC, then on the original hardware. The differences are jarring.

Edit - I'd link them here if I could, but I'm at work :/

 

[Monkeylord]

If they can take the time to alter the code on VC games (Wave Race 64 Kawasaki banners/logo's, Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles (NES) changed to be Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles) then they can take the time to alter the code to display NTSC ROMS with access to all languages.

Do they even provide them with language options? I don't remember any of my Wii VC games having a language option. Then again, I've never really had to look for them.



50Hz only is shameful!

 

[Alexios]

Look up Majora's Mask VC on YouTube, then look up videos running on the original hardware. As for a C64 game, look up Mayhem in Monsterland on VC, then on the original hardware. The differences are jarring.

Edit - I'd link them here if I could, but I'm at work :/

The only MM comparison I could find is this. The quality is shit but the description basically says performance drops much less on the VC version outside one instance. He seems to know what he's saying given all the speed run stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BupZlpx5ths

And I think it's been told that VC N64 games run in a little higher resolution too.

 

[Jucksalbe]

SCEE didn't fix it, the localisation team fixed it. They've made their fix readily available, but it's up to the individual publisher I would imagine to determine its worth.

I was talking about MonkeyPaw, not SCEE.

 

[Sleeplessnights]

Is that why SMB3 VC in PAL has no colours?

 

[Jucksalbe]

What do you mean?

 

[Coolwhip]

Give us the option Nintendo!

 

[elektrixx]

Is the VC game up now even 1080p?

 

[Box of Bunnies]

Once again Nintendo cover their ears and refuse to be normal.

Considering PS1 Classics are largely the original PAL50hz version too, this is normal. It's not good, but it is the standard.

 

[Sleeplessnights]

What do you mean?

On an NES http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2x9LrSMGvw

On the Wii VC PAL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XJ2JEv_9w8

 

[Betta Lines]

I just discovered this last night after buying FF7 on PSN (UK) and playing it on Vita. I had previously... acquired a copy that ran on my old PSP that happened to be an NTSC version, and even though I'd barely played that, the difference was immediately obvious - I thought the Vita was struggling with the framerate for some reason. Then I ran the intros side by side, and not only was the framerate worse, but the whole game ran marginally slower.

Then I looked it up and found out what a huge and well-documented issue this is.

I won't be buying another PSX game off PSN, that's for sure.

 

[Somnid]

It's completely understandable why they did it. That's how they were, that's the most compatible format, and those are the versions that are localized. I guess for Balloon Fight they could have just given a US ROM of it but in general PAL gamers will have to suck it up for the rest of time because that's their legacy to deal with. I'd be pissed too and I hope they do get US versions where it makes sense but it's hard to fully blame Nintendo for crappy PAL standards.

Does anyone know the reasoning behind the need to have different signals than other major territories?

 

[Jucksalbe]

On an NES http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2x9LrSMGvw

On the Wii VC PAL http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XJ2JEv_9w8

Since both versions are PAL, this obviously doesn't have anything to do with it (in fact the colors in PAL mode should be better than in NTSC).
The difference here is probably mostly due to different TV settings and a different connection (I guess the NES is connected via RF? It looks pretty bad). If you like the stronger colors of the NES, try changing the color settings on your TV. Or is the difference only that big for SMB3?

 

[lednerg]

...

Does anyone know the reasoning behind the need to have different signals than other major territories?

Pretty sure it's based off of the 50hz alternating current (AC) standard they chose for their electrical grid way back when.

 

[also]

It's completely understandable why they did it. That's how they were, that's the most compatible format, and those are the versions that are localized. I guess for Balloon Fight they could have just given a US ROM of it but in general PAL gamers will have to suck it up for the rest of time because that's their legacy to deal with. I'd be pissed too and I hope they do get US versions where it makes sense but it's hard to fully blame Nintendo for crappy PAL standards.

Does anyone know the reasoning behind the need to have different signals than other major territories?

Explain then to me why all NES games on 3DS run at 60Hz? If Nintendo has no problems dumping NTSC roms for 3DS they should do the same for Wii U or, God forbid, gives us an option. Google tells me NES games are at most 1MB, while SNES games shouldn't exceed 6MB. The Balloon Fighter download is 35MB, adding another ~20kb won't make a difference.

 

[FGMPR]

I feel like this is alot of you being overly sensitive nerds complaining about notning
Take a breather, walk outside from your basements for 10 minutes then come back and realise that this isn't the end of the world. Nintendo is giving you balloon fight for free guys.

Embarrassing post.

as for Nintendo; HOW DO YOU FUCK THIS UP?!?

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Yup, this is really annoying. To still be stuck with 50hz versions in the year 2013 is a joke.

 

[lednerg]

Guys, it's not that they would have to include the NTSC versions of ROMs to fix it. In fact, that wouldn't do anything but play NTSC games slow. Instead, they need to add a 60hz option to the emulator.

 

[D.Lo]

Nintendo (and Sony with PS1 games on PSN) must be making a specific choice to give people their retro games 'as they remember them. Very bad decision in my opinion, but it would surely be more work to do it this way than not at this point.

NOTE:
Anyone mentioning the 'pitch' being different due to a 50Hz conversion is talking out their ass.

Videogames are DIGITAL, slowing them down does not affect pitch. If any game had the pitch affected it was a deliberate change in the code.

 

[Sleeplessnights]

Since both versions are PAL, this obviously doesn't have anything to do with it (in fact the colors in PAL mode should be better than in NTSC).
The difference here is probably mostly due to different TV settings and a different connection (I guess the NES is connected via RF? It looks pretty bad). If you like the stronger colors of the NES, try changing the color settings on your TV. Or is the difference only that big for SMB3?

I only noticed that in SMB3, with the same settings other VC games are fine and have the strong colours.

 

[Starwolf_UK]

NOTE:
Anyone mentioning the 'pitch' being different due to a 50Hz conversion is talking out their ass.

But the emulator and the chips it is emulating might have an effect. Like with the NES. The slower you make music, the lower its pitch likewise for faster. It results in Super Mario Bros (one of the few NES games to have a reasonable conversion of making stuff 6/5 faster to compensate for 5/6) being slightly higher pitch on the PAL VC.

I really don't want to play F-Zero and Super Metroid with big black boarders and 17% slower gameplay and music.

Balloon fight didn't have borders. I hear SNES VC games didn't either. SNES games never had slower music. They do have slower gameplay but less slowdown (but the former outweighs the latter).

The problem is it gets much harder to tell anything is wrong (unless you're familiar with the correct version*) when you remove the borders and sound issues. Which in turn makes you paranoid. Add to the fact that the TV will show a 60Hz output and you start feeling like you're going crazy and nobody believes you.

*-This reminds me back in 2006 when NOM (the same people that said Metal Slug Anthology supported the classic controller...several times in their "review") decided to brush this under the carpet by claiming the only way you could tell is if you pirated the game.

 

[Monkeylord]

I hear SNES VC games didn't either.

They most certainly did/do.

 

[Screamapillar]

30 cents, people. They're giving you Off-TV GamePad support and Miiverse integration with Balloon Fight for THIRTY CENTS.

You'll live. lol.

 

[Somnid]

Explain then to me why all NES games on 3DS run at 60Hz? If Nintendo has no problems dumping NTSC roms for 3DS they should do the same for Wii U or, God forbid, gives us an option. Google tells me NES games are at most 1MB, while SNES games shouldn't exceed 6MB. The Balloon Fighter download is 35MB, adding another ~20kb won't make a difference.

Because 3DS is a self contained display, Wii U has to contend with legacy television standards. I already said I agree NTSC ROMs should be available where it makes sense to do so.

 

[21st century cowboy]

I bought balloon fight before I knew that it's the crappy PAL 50mhz version : (

It's going to be damn hard to resist Super Metroid for 30p.

 

[Ein Bear]

I don't really think 'they have to support 50hz signals!' is much of an excuse. 50hz is completely dead, you can't even watch TV on a set like that anymore.

 

[Arren]

Videogames are DIGITAL, slowing them down does not affect pitch. If any game had the pitch affected it was a deliberate change in the code.

I don't think being digital matters at all, when the music is originally coded to be synchronized with a certain framerate.

When you force a reduction of the fps from 60 to 50 in NES games, the music can be consequently affected. It is certainly not a deliberate choice of the original authors.